- Location
- Anchorage, Alaska
sounds good to me! its pretty much lazy but hey, soon were going to have to many cities to name at some point so might as well just keep up with the nutty names until we don't need them anymore.
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Respect Your Elders v2 - Galactic Boogaloo [Warhammer Lizardmen Quest]
- Thread starter Xantalos
- Start date
- Sci-Fi Fantasy
-
- Tags
- warhammer warhammer 40k fantasy sci-fi science fantasy science-fantasy kitchen sink space fantasy isha kroak (warhammer fantasy) mazdamundi (warhammer fantasy) magic empire quest actions have consequences dinosaurs ia ia kroak fhtagn lasers lizardmen qm likes speculation and questions slann what could possibly go wrong? open voting
sounds good to me! its pretty much lazy but hey, soon were going to have to many cities to name at some point so might as well just keep up with the nutty names until we don't need them anymore.
Nix's Warden
Welcome to Hades
- Location
- United States
That overwrites your turn plan vote. You want both votes to be in the same post to count.
- Location
- Anchorage, Alaska
thanks...just sorry about that a bit tired.
BungieONI
Seven gremlins in a trench coat
- Location
- Lickwidget
- Pronouns
- She/Her
[X] Plan Scry, Die, And Goodbye
This is fine with me(even though the vote is over I think). Anyway I've been on a Star Wars kick recently, and that means Thrawn. Because of that I got to thinking about the Orks from their Orky strategic perspective.
Intuitively most people will hit on the Orks overall objective. Just murder a bunch of stuff for fun, particularly at this level, where the Warboss is essentially simplistic in his thought processes. But let's peel apart this intuition a little bit and explore it for fun.
First let's look at the Ork: A brutal fungoid killing machine with intuitive grasp of its primary functions, namely; killing for fun, eating, and building ramshackle tech. It's an angry mushroom with legs and a gun. This is the totality of their culture as expressed in how they build their guns, for maximum overdakka and killyness, and their imagery, lots of skulls and blood and brutality. Also a prevalence of chains on their starships.
So the primary objective for this particular campaign for this particular Warboss is simple: Kill stuff on this continent with his Boyz.
His secondary objective is obviously: Get more Boyz to kill stuff with.
This creates a situation of aggressive colonization and a rapidly moving war front. Moreover, now that he is here on this continent, his primary objective is being perpetually unfulfilled/fulfilled. At this point the northern continent is essentially an accessory barring the Mek's project which helps him complete his primary and secondary objective. Thus as was easily determined by the planners, killing him is probably the most important and effective move to make in hindering the objectives of the Ork warmachine. Of course due to them being Orks, it's a delaying measure at best. Somewhere a new Warboss will rise up. Given the geographic separation between the hordes, I expect that two Warbosses, each individually weaker than the current one, rising up is a possibility that is definitely on the table.
In this hypothetical the Warboss on the northern continent would be the more dangerous one in the long term since it would have more raw numbers to hand and whatever remnants of a Mek caste are left. The one on the Ring would be more immediately dangerous, but also pretty straightforward to deal with via Geomancy and the "Slann Artillery" method.
Setting aside this hypothetical the next most likely place for the Warboss to emerge is on the Ring after the Orks deal with the succession process(read: kill the shit out of each other). This is due to the intense fighting, the orks being directly aware of his death on this continent, and the most likely Ayacamanik response which is to collapse onto the chaotic horde of boss-less orks and push the density of fighting even higher.
We can generally assume they'll do this because the Aya has a primary objective of: Kill the invaders to protect the body.
Its secondary objective is: Get more host bodies to kill the invader.
Its third objective is: Regain that moment of clarity it lost by infesting the lizards.
And we can look at the Ayacamanik's flow towards the ork incursion. The path of least resistance is to keep going.
In the case of a singular Warboss arising on the Ring, the strategy I would recommend is to; assassinate him with chameleon skinks, then capitalize on the confusion with Geomancy, and finally clean up with a military deployment from Xlanhuapec, Itza and Hexoatl involving lots of burning probably. This will thoroughly remove them from this continent. This will also have the side effect of dealing some damage to the Ayacamanik due to their congregation, which brings its own set of consequences. Namely, the Aya will probably remember some of what happens there and retaliate against our cities. To counter this I would recommend that on the turn where we perform this hyper-aggressive clearing that we purge the parasite with Tlaxtlan and our other cities with sufficient Slann support. Put Chakax on this defensive purging and Tik'taq'to and Kroq-gar on offensive against the orks. That way if the retaliation comes it has no tools with which to strike at the cities immediately at hand.
Setting aside this hypothetical, there is the last one of the Warboss arises on the northern continent due to the chaos of the Mek's project being destroyed and the fighting that spools out from that along with the higher population. In this case we face a two sided problem. First, the orks on the Ring which must be dealt with before they generate a Warboss or reach us. Second, the objectives of this new Warboss.
His primary objective will of course be: Get his Meks working on means for him and his boyz to get to the Ring.
So while he will not immediately be a problem, he will essentially become a bulwark of reinforcement for the orks remaining on the Ring. To deal with all of this I would suggest a Geomantic ritual aimed at the orks on the Ring to the tune of "their heads explode and everything is on fire" and another Geomantic ritual against the Warboss himself. Which is an issue if we want to keep beating on the Mind Fog, as is apparent.
*rests cheek in hand*
With that I'll just pack up that and move on to another topic.
I agree with @Deadly Snark that we currently do not need a God other than Sotek at the moment because we are primarily at war. Diverting Slann and lizard power to the lengthy steps needed to create another God is Slann and lizard power we could devote to dealing with the Ayacamanik and Orks. Given the length of Sotek's creation as an example, and the statements Xantalos has made about the effort involved, any god we begin making I can safely assume will be completed by the time we are moving into space and generally not helpful for dealing with the Orks and Ayacamanik unless the war turns from something unforeseen.
This is fine with me(even though the vote is over I think). Anyway I've been on a Star Wars kick recently, and that means Thrawn. Because of that I got to thinking about the Orks from their Orky strategic perspective.
Intuitively most people will hit on the Orks overall objective. Just murder a bunch of stuff for fun, particularly at this level, where the Warboss is essentially simplistic in his thought processes. But let's peel apart this intuition a little bit and explore it for fun.
First let's look at the Ork: A brutal fungoid killing machine with intuitive grasp of its primary functions, namely; killing for fun, eating, and building ramshackle tech. It's an angry mushroom with legs and a gun. This is the totality of their culture as expressed in how they build their guns, for maximum overdakka and killyness, and their imagery, lots of skulls and blood and brutality. Also a prevalence of chains on their starships.
So the primary objective for this particular campaign for this particular Warboss is simple: Kill stuff on this continent with his Boyz.
His secondary objective is obviously: Get more Boyz to kill stuff with.
This creates a situation of aggressive colonization and a rapidly moving war front. Moreover, now that he is here on this continent, his primary objective is being perpetually unfulfilled/fulfilled. At this point the northern continent is essentially an accessory barring the Mek's project which helps him complete his primary and secondary objective. Thus as was easily determined by the planners, killing him is probably the most important and effective move to make in hindering the objectives of the Ork warmachine. Of course due to them being Orks, it's a delaying measure at best. Somewhere a new Warboss will rise up. Given the geographic separation between the hordes, I expect that two Warbosses, each individually weaker than the current one, rising up is a possibility that is definitely on the table.
In this hypothetical the Warboss on the northern continent would be the more dangerous one in the long term since it would have more raw numbers to hand and whatever remnants of a Mek caste are left. The one on the Ring would be more immediately dangerous, but also pretty straightforward to deal with via Geomancy and the "Slann Artillery" method.
Setting aside this hypothetical the next most likely place for the Warboss to emerge is on the Ring after the Orks deal with the succession process(read: kill the shit out of each other). This is due to the intense fighting, the orks being directly aware of his death on this continent, and the most likely Ayacamanik response which is to collapse onto the chaotic horde of boss-less orks and push the density of fighting even higher.
We can generally assume they'll do this because the Aya has a primary objective of: Kill the invaders to protect the body.
Its secondary objective is: Get more host bodies to kill the invader.
Its third objective is: Regain that moment of clarity it lost by infesting the lizards.
And we can look at the Ayacamanik's flow towards the ork incursion. The path of least resistance is to keep going.
In the case of a singular Warboss arising on the Ring, the strategy I would recommend is to; assassinate him with chameleon skinks, then capitalize on the confusion with Geomancy, and finally clean up with a military deployment from Xlanhuapec, Itza and Hexoatl involving lots of burning probably. This will thoroughly remove them from this continent. This will also have the side effect of dealing some damage to the Ayacamanik due to their congregation, which brings its own set of consequences. Namely, the Aya will probably remember some of what happens there and retaliate against our cities. To counter this I would recommend that on the turn where we perform this hyper-aggressive clearing that we purge the parasite with Tlaxtlan and our other cities with sufficient Slann support. Put Chakax on this defensive purging and Tik'taq'to and Kroq-gar on offensive against the orks. That way if the retaliation comes it has no tools with which to strike at the cities immediately at hand.
Setting aside this hypothetical, there is the last one of the Warboss arises on the northern continent due to the chaos of the Mek's project being destroyed and the fighting that spools out from that along with the higher population. In this case we face a two sided problem. First, the orks on the Ring which must be dealt with before they generate a Warboss or reach us. Second, the objectives of this new Warboss.
His primary objective will of course be: Get his Meks working on means for him and his boyz to get to the Ring.
So while he will not immediately be a problem, he will essentially become a bulwark of reinforcement for the orks remaining on the Ring. To deal with all of this I would suggest a Geomantic ritual aimed at the orks on the Ring to the tune of "their heads explode and everything is on fire" and another Geomantic ritual against the Warboss himself. Which is an issue if we want to keep beating on the Mind Fog, as is apparent.
*rests cheek in hand*
With that I'll just pack up that and move on to another topic.
I agree with @Deadly Snark that we currently do not need a God other than Sotek at the moment because we are primarily at war. Diverting Slann and lizard power to the lengthy steps needed to create another God is Slann and lizard power we could devote to dealing with the Ayacamanik and Orks. Given the length of Sotek's creation as an example, and the statements Xantalos has made about the effort involved, any god we begin making I can safely assume will be completed by the time we are moving into space and generally not helpful for dealing with the Orks and Ayacamanik unless the war turns from something unforeseen.
Xantalos
Turtle-Speed Writing
Ah, you know me better than that Bungie, my votes have gone on for literal weeks before, or at least for several days so that a clear majority vote is established.
Insightful commentary, by the by! Nice use of analytic empathy.
Fezzes
Knight of King Stannis Baratheon
- Location
- Sydney, Australia
Ah damn. I was hoping for overflow. I'll reassign. Not that it matters, I've been pretty soundly crushed. But it'll make me feel better.
Yeah I just suck ass at creatures, no clear vision on what exactly I want. They've kind of got most monster roles filled already. I suppose overlap wouldn't be awful, until populations get 100% stable. Maybe some kind of mount with camo abilities, for chameleon skinks...
So what I'm getting is Kill The Thing is our top strategy?
BungieONI
Seven gremlins in a trench coat
- Location
- Lickwidget
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Ah! You're here!
Question for you then, what's with the Favored, Neutral, Disfavored business for our dinos and do the Slann know why the Coatl favor Xlanhuapec and Yenehectua?
For those curious we have Xlanhuapec seeming to turn into a nest of Coatl for some reason. Additionally at current rates of expansion the Ork battle front will reach within 500 miles of Xlanhuapec in two turns, with the death of the Warboss and probable crush of the Ayacamanik likely to drastically lower that number.
Yep. Kill the Thing all the way pretty much. What I'm really hoping doesn't happen is that a Warboss reappears on the northern continent where there are likely more than 300 million Orks and a embedded Orkoid ecosystem after we kill the current one. It would likely delay removal of the Mind Fog, or incur the eventual cost of leaving it be for a turn, if that happened. Which sets this whole conflict into perspective: The Orks are for the most part a delay on the Plans of the Slann, currently. The Lizardmen's strategic position is one which is quite a bit stronger than the Orks, and moves are being made to increase that in leaps and bounds(moves which also happen to help deal with our Ayacamanik problem).
Xantalos
Turtle-Speed Writing
Hmm, now that my headache has subsided I can actually think in that direction - for Unleash the Serpent there's no overflow, but there would be for the other two - in those cases, the overflow would go into the magic forging districts gated behind the standard ones, and be banked as progress for when you decide to create a god. Apologies, I'm used to people wanting to get things exactly on-target for projects, so I didn't see your intent right away.
As I said, it's no worry if you don't have a clear idea of what you wanna do, I have plenty of avenues of inspiration. Just making sure you wanted to leave it to me.
- Location
- united kingdom
How many Slann would it take to equal one city action in city construction?
Fezzes
Knight of King Stannis Baratheon
- Location
- Sydney, Australia
I'll keep in mind to clearly mark out at some point that overflow is intentional, just to make it a bit easier on you if one of my plans ever wins. Not much point switching back though, I've already changed it and Maz knows I can't remember what I tinkered. Still, next time.
Another case of "Oh crap it's actually okay well uh I already changed it". Whoops.
I'm finding myself disliking scrying the Ork's weapons. It's just a half-measure that we don't need to take when we can loot the Relic Vaults for ranged weapons and reverse engineer that. It's less effort, sure, but it's also going to quickly be outdated. Or it should. The Relic Vaults are an untapped wealth of technology that takes almost no effort to dig into, though a little bit to implement. I'd've figured people to be all over that.
Xantalos
Turtle-Speed Writing
Not for long I'm afraid, I'm shortly gonna attempt to go to sleep so that I don't turn myself into a sunken-eyed gremlin like I usually do on weekends. I'm less busy tomorrow though, so I'll still be able to answer questions with reasonable swiftness.
Anyhow! I'll make an infopost about it later on, but basically every species of dino is present in every city, without me having to track their population level (RELIEF) - instead I'll just roughly scale Dino presence to lizardmen presence. The favoured, neutral, disfavoured tiers are basically representations of which particular species that city prefers more, and so has more or less of depending on the tier.
It's not clear why the Coatl favor those two cities - perhaps it's something to do with the winds of magic they're associated with.
Oh, and while that assessment of ork expansion rates is accurate, do remember that they're known as a snowball faction for a reason, and that from the Ayacmanik memories you've gleaned, each ork invasion was a matter of centuries for the parasites to clear the Orks off the continent.
...uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuhhhhhhhh
I think there was some discussion of that when you guys were fixing Hexoatl in turn 2?
I did quote your plan, didn't I? I think I did. That quote should still be around if you wanted to reference it, theoretically.
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BungieONI
Seven gremlins in a trench coat
- Location
- Lickwidget
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Have good sleeps. Dream of Kee'naa Nuu Acrofroggily kicking Ork and Tyranid Biotitan ass.
Innnnteresting on the favoring tiers and the idea about the Coatl. Makes as much sense as any I guess. Thank you for reminding me about the Ork's snowballiness. And it makes sense, because as the warfront expands there are more Orks fighting per unit of area which in turn means the Orks breed even faster and more Orks flow towards the fight. This is why Apocalypse was a problem, aside from the fact of Mr. Crazy Metal Head being smarter than the average Ork.
Xantalos
Turtle-Speed Writing
That scene is going to be so very much worth it when I eventually write it.
For most people, having too much territory to defend is a problem because it means there are too many brushfires popping up all over the place. For Orks, it's an advantage because there's fights cropping up all over the place!
You can't have too much territory to defend
*insert that one meme from last February or something*
If you don't defend it
ConfusedPotato
Unverified Verifier
- Location
- Australia
This could also have the implications of I'll sleep when I'm dead.
- Location
- Northern Ireland, UK
O.O! Does this hold true for every generation?
1 1st Gen. = 3 2nd Gen. = 9 3rd Gen. = 27 4th Gen. = 81 5th Gen. ?
If so, then we have the equivalent of ......
11.5555.... 1st Gens?!
Well, when they're all awake that is.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
[X] Plan Scry, Die, And Goodbye
[X] Altepkoatl
[X] Altepkoatl
- Pronouns
- He/Him
If they did, how would we know?
- Location
- Anchorage, Alaska
pretty much this:
The Emperor: I think I felt a rumble in the warp
Khorne: what was that?
Nurgle: what was that?
Slannesh?: im not/actually here yet...what was that?
Tzeentch: shit...that's not according to plan.
Malice: Fuck yeah let me get the popcorn!
the eldar gods: What was that and what are these things?
Mork and Gork: Hey looks like a good fight!
Nix's Warden
Welcome to Hades
- Location
- United States
Right, to try and address this, my general thought process/plan is basically the following.
The orks are going to fall into infighting with the death of the Warboss, and the parasites are going to rush to capitalize, something you yourself pointed out. With the Mek project being smashed, I don't see a reason to worry at the moment, since even after a new Warboss rises to lead the horde, its only going to be after horrendous causalities from infighting, which will only be accelerated by the parasites upping the pressure.
As such, I have no problem with the Orks and the Bugs keeping themselves occupied while we expand our cities and population numbers, since if the Orks just start winning too much we can pop the Warboss and watch them self detonate.
As for the Orks in the North, frankly I'm not worried about them, since they can only come in piece by piece, and the bugs will be punishing any landings on The Ring hard. Plus, I'd rather not toss a Mag 3 Ritual on the northern continent, and risk destroying whatever might be buried under the Northern Mountain.
Also, I severly think your overestimating the time it would take to birth a new god to an extreme degree, not even factoring in how we can use the Fog Demon to reduce the divine construction time.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I just hope that two city actions is enough to kill him. But there will probably be assistance from the scrying.
ContemplateLife
Philosopher Thesaurus
- Location
- Canada
- Pronouns
- He/Him
[X] Plan Scry, Die, And Goodbye.
Nix's Warden
Welcome to Hades
- Location
- United States
Its a basic bitch Warboss who hasn't even reached the full industrial stage yet. Frankly I think 2 Actions is overkill.
- Location
- Anchorage, Alaska
its Warhammer, the best kill is OVERKILL...also keeping that warboss down is for the best, keeps the orks from snowballing. You never allow orks to snowball.
Xantalos
Turtle-Speed Writing
The ratio changes depending on whether it's assessed for research, combat, spiritual potency, etc. On a general level, each generation is worth 5 of the generation below it. But that's shrunk when applied to research and such because otherwise it'd be totally ludicrous.
There's also the leadership bonus Mazdamundi grants, and other factors. But at the base, yeah.