I actually like SB, which is a shame I missed the mark writing her.
I don't think there's a way to write a character like this well for a quest. Narratively she's a flawed character with a decently interesting back story and characterization. From a gameplay perspective, she just represents the kind of oppressive threat that really sours players-

Son of a bitch it's dandeer again. I thought this felt familiar.


… why? We're not throwing away a perfectly good candidate on triggering resonance and killing both them and SB. If wanna use SB in Project Prometheus, we gotta kill her. Nobody's gonna object on us killing the "Justiciar mind nuke" lady.
Given the potential state of JU, Crusade, and whoever is backing S.B. (the hand?) Recovering her DNA could end up being complicated. I'm saying this powerset could make it easier to get that DNA sample. Obviously we'd kill her immediately afterwards.
 
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… why? We're not throwing away a perfectly good candidate on triggering resonance and killing both them and SB. If wanna use SB in Project Prometheus, we gotta kill her. Nobody's gonna object on us killing the "Justiciar mind nuke" lady.
Yep might need rosemary to use SB power properly and without the cloning aspect. At the very least power copying should be a synergy.

So we can have wulong figure out whats needed to make a power copier.
 
I have this mental image of that being her pulling out a syringe and just getting as much blood as she can from Seraph's body, squeezing it out into a vial and then making sure a seal is on it.
 
I could see the sub-vote being about whether to spare SB or not - Yara explicitly thinks to herself that she feels sorry for SB in the update. And Bitterman did say once that 'technically' anyone could end up being a member of JU (except for Earthen Owl and Dario, lol). But there is no shot we actually vote to spare her if we are presented with the option.

There may be sympathy to be had when it comes to abuse, but lots of people get abused and come out of it choosing to be good to others rather than perpetuate a cycle. We're talking about an insane megalomaniac whose 'there is something good in all people' moment was loving her sister, undercut by how she changed her mind about smothering her at the last second.

If our blend has Edict or something like that... what if we used one to force her to tell us about her organization? And get some goddamn intel?
Edicts themselves wouldn't be able to force her to tell us anything, all they can do is punish someone with the things we've seen if they don't obey them. There might be a possibility if the resulting power is closer to outright mind control, though.
 
Bit of a thought: plan CAT might result in the ability to place permanent, unbreakable commands onto a single person. A combination of Justicars edicts, Red Huntress's focus on a single person and Heavenly Astrologers FFM.

If it does, we could literally depower SB, removing her as a threat without killing her.
 
Bit of a thought: plan CAT might result in the ability to place permanent, unbreakable commands onto a single person. A combination of Justicars edicts, Red Huntress's focus on a single person and Heavenly Astrologers FFM.

If it does, we could literally depower SB, removing her as a threat without killing her.
honestly, if that's actually the case, that's definitely...Not an IDEAL alternative for myriad reasons, especially since it probably would have some real limits, but if the limits are sufficiently large?

solid wonderland alternative there.
 
Edicts themselves wouldn't be able to force her to tell us anything, all they can do is punish someone with the things we've seen if they don't obey them. There might be a possibility if the resulting power is closer to outright mind control, though.
Oh I just meant in the way of "EDICT: Kaitlyn English truthfully reveals everything she knows about "Speaker" and "Hand". Punishment: Stimulation of pain centers of brain for lying or extended silence"
 
Oh I just meant in the way of "EDICT: Kaitlyn English truthfully reveals everything she knows about "Speaker" and "Hand". Punishment: Stimulation of pain centers of brain for lying or extended silence"
I think Ellie would prefer to just kill her rather than torture her for information.
 
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Idly, but: Would there be bonuses not just for "This hero has a solid narrative reason to be summoned at this moment" but also for "These heroes had a preexisting relationship and so 'work well' together", like if we did Zeno/Nox/Memoria?
 
HA may have been Ellie's mom, but the Defiance Unit have been waiting a literal decade for their run back against White Hawk for Belle/Triss. When Ellie calls for help, they're gonna be jumping* at the call.

*well as much as you can jump on the Stage, I think it's non-physical
Maybe in reality check no way crusade aint gonna try to stop us there.

Focus on Sb for now
 
Oh I just meant in the way of "EDICT: Kaitlyn English truthfully reveals everything she knows about "Speaker" and "Hand". Punishment: Stimulation of pain centers of brain for lying or extended silence"
Setting aside the morality of that, I don't think Justice Unlimited knows of Speaker and Hand in-universe?

Assuming the CAT power enhances the edicts, just issue a nasty double bind instead.
Edict 1: Do not try to harm Justice Unlimited or their allies. Punishment: Punch self instead.

Edict 2: Kaitlyn English cannot act, except to comply with explicit orders from Justice Unlimited. Punishment: Disclose the identities of all her allies and any information she knows about them. Also admit that she herself is lower than dirt.

Yes, if she punches herself due to Edict 1 she will violate Edict 2 as well. The second clause is to cause her grave offense and make it completely unpalatable for her to violate Edict 2 even if she decides betraying her allies is fine.

Edict 3: If you are not from Justice Unlimited, do not try to harm Kaitlyn English. Punishment: Loss of consciousness.

Edict 3 may seem odd, but the purpose is to hopefully prevent some third party from conveniently whacking Socialite Butterfly if she happens to be giving a full confession.

If a particular punishment is not possible for the CAT power, replace with loss of consciousness.
 
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