This state of affairs is usually called a civil war.
Apparently it also encompasses the massive clusterfuck they call 'Mughal Domestic Politics', because I'm 90% sure that neither the Nizams, Bharatists, or Rajputs can be considered 'The Ruling Party', considering my rule is separate from all three of them.

.... At least, I think. The State of Mughal Domestic Politics is an absolute mess at the moment, one that I"m trying to fix.
 
Last edited:
Example!

The safavids are currently undergoing an Institution Quest. I rolled the years waaay back on 227 (There are, like, five dice rolls? My phone freaked so we're going to pretend that that was on purpose in an attempt to use them as examples that failed because I rolled three fours).

Fluff: The Shah is going for a combination of increased literacy and massively funding aeronautics programs to improve his rightful mastery of the sky the Persian understanding of the Airships so much of their economy is based around. As such this Institution Quest is tied to the Aeronautics and Rocketry field.

My first External Factors roll is a 5, Tradition. That doesn't particularly affect anything at the moment, as I've got 9 Magic, so I'm getting 1 point from my first year of the Quest. So now we go on to the Modifiers. I don't have spare MP and don't want an Econ hit, and both of my heroes are doing things at the moment, so I'm going to commit an artifact (The Ring of Solomon, good for infrastructure development everywhere) for an additional points. If I make a fluff post by Friday that'll be 3 points for me, and really that's more than enough for my purposes.

So, let's say my Econ goes down one next turn and I'm too busy to make more effortposts but otherwise everything stays the same. As such my next turn gets a +0 (Funding) because I rolled a two, for a total of 2 points since the Ring remains committed, but the turn after that I get

That's a total of 3+3+2, 8 points. That means I'm one over the threshold so if I wanted to change nothing else, I'd get +3 Institution Points and +3 years of Aeronautics Tech (Then affected by the relevant multiplier, which would probably be 1915-1930 in '88 so, well, it just adds three years).

There are a few ways this could go squiffy, someone could invade (-1 from troops on shore) or I could make a sacrifice, voluntarily slowing down my institutional development to appease my Elitist faction, losing a point (Going to 7) but gaining some loyalty with the Dari, or I could have rolled a 1 instead, netting a -1 penalty for my 18 million population. If two or more of those happened I could even drop a tier to 4-6, but for our purposes let's pretend things go as outlined above.

+3 Institution Points increase me to Scholarly 6/5, which brings me to the next tier (Systematic 0/5) and gives me a free Boost in '89 under my nifty new Systematic tech progression. If I'd gone to 7/5 I'd start at Systematic 1/5.

What if I don't want to focus on a tech and just increase my institution?

That's fine but you don't get a bonus for it.

..... What happens if you have no clear Ruling Faction

That's probably Pan-Bharatists for you right now, though for previous Mughal emperors that would be either the Nizams or the Rajputs. Basically 'who do you derive legitimacy and the ability to actually rule from'. For the Shah that's the Shahsevan, for El Presidente it's his military junta faction, for Naglfar it's now the Kalmarists, etc.

, and the most loyal faction is tied for most powerful with another faction that is neither most loyal nor most disloyal?

+1.
 
Last edited:
I'll see about reworking the magic system's intersection with the new factions, just a sec.
 
Now that I have so much more time on my hands, I'm thinking of making a giant-ass codex exerpt for GC
 
Rolling for Institution Quest:
EDIT: Funding, so I get a +1. Another +1 for Hero committed and another +1 for a pending effortpost.
Desdendelle threw 1 6-faced dice. Reason: Quest Total: 2
2 2
 
Last edited:
Putting aside the fact that Poland is Catholic and not Orthodox, someone here has got the Papal Infallibility wrong. Again.

The schism with the eastern church is mostly over the Filioque, the formula in the Creed that you recite in church that goes

I believe in the Holy Ghost, the Lord, the giver of life,
who proceedeth from the Father ⟨and the Son⟩.
Who with the Father and the Son is adored and glorified.

The idea that the Holy Spirit precedes from the Father AND the Son pissed off the Greeks while it was ok enough to the Latins, and that's what caused the schism.

Since the Pope is, according to Catholic dogma, infallible when speaking in matters of morals and faith ex cathedra, that is when speaking in his position as Pope and Vicar of Christ on Earth, like Hell he's going to say that he is NOT FRIGGIN SURE whether the Filioque (the main cause of friction with the Orthodox, though there's also political ones, of course. In fact it's rational enough to think that historically they just used this excuse to not become subordinate to Rome) is true or not after having affirmed it in 1054.
This is a theological question, one that was adopted centuries earlier by a previous Pope but that cannot possibly be undone, nothing theological or moral that was affirmed ex cathedra and then adopted as an official line by the Church can.


I know the way out.
Also, @shiverczar you should probably listen to @Altzek on the pope thing if you want your antipope to have internal support from the church at some point.

First: Yeah, I don't know anything about the split. I tried researching it for a bit and the article I saw made at best passing reference to the Holy Spirit and such, before going on about the political back and forth between the churches which seemed to be more a matter of power struggle than because of where the spirit came from. So thanks for the insight. I couldn't tell that the holy spirit mattered more than the type of bread or the claim of universal jurisdiction or the relative power positions and Pentarchy and such.

In regards to the Polish Catholicism, the Polish leader is Orthodox unless I am simply delusional, and that is who the message is addressed to.

Currently he (antipope) is but a man that has JUST been selected because of his faithfulness, and virtues - he hasn't received a message from God, an epiphany of any sort, or any kind of experience in the role. If you told a guy he was suddenly the head of the church and couldn't possibly be wrong about anything ever, would he strut his stuff and start spouting things off as fact immediately, you think? Especially if one of the virtues he has in spades is humility? Besides, this bit of the message was not an open declaration to the world, but a private notice to a private individual who happens to have a great deal of power as the ruler of a nation.

He also probably knows more about Catholicism than I do, so, any really stupid and obvious mistakes I make there are because I don't know rather than an intentional bastardization.

I also did not know that it is literally impossible for Catholicism to ever reverse a point like that, though. That seems like it could be problematic not just in terms of what can be done here, but also in real life... Which I'm sure has been a topic of debate in the past, so, I'm just going to say: "Huh, interesting, and potentially inconvenient." and stop there. There's now one extra hopefully in the line - hopefully he's successful, and hopefully no previously accepted Catholic stuff that I don't know about gets in the way of things I want to do in the coming years.

Regarding your point, @Havocfett rather than going back and making an edit to a private message to an individual, I'm going to go ahead and assume that people aren't going to hunt down find and distribute copies of a personal letter showing his humility and willingness to accept and saying: "Oy he's not pope-y enough." And if they do, I'll figure out a way to spin it :)
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Warning For Marginal Behavior
First: Yeah, I don't know anything about the split. I tried researching it for a bit and the article I saw made at best passing reference to the Holy Spirit and such, before going on about the political back and forth between the churches which seemed to be more a matter of power struggle than because of where the spirit came from. So thanks for the insight. I couldn't tell that the holy spirit mattered more than the type of bread or the claim of universal jurisdiction or the relative power positions and Pentarchy and such.

The Filioque was among the main reasons, but of course there were also political reasons like the place of the Pope in the Pentarchy, with the Patriarch of Constantinople preferring equal-ish positions and the Pope preferring for himself a position of first-among-equals thing (on a more-or-less Biblical basis, since the Petrine Church is the only one that receives a sort of blessing by Christ when he tells Simon "On your stone I shall build my church" and proceeds to call him Peter) I stated quite clearly that there were political reasons too.
The bread thing is a relatively secondary thing, Eastern-rite Catholic Churches such as Maronites, Byzantine Catholics, Chaldeans, Armenian and Coptic Catholics and so on use different rites and, I suppose, different hosts as well but they're nevertheless in communion with Rome.

In regards to the Polish Catholicism, the Polish leader is Orthodox unless I am simply delusional, and that is who the message is addressed to.

Either I skipped it while following the updates, or you're really delusional.

Currently he (antipope) is but a man that has JUST been selected because of his faithfulness, and virtues - he hasn't received a message from God, an epiphany of any sort, or any kind of experience in the role. If you told a guy he was suddenly the head of the church and couldn't possibly be wrong about anything ever, would he strut his stuff and start spouting things off as fact immediately, you think? Especially if one of the virtues he has in spades is humility? Besides, this bit of the message was not an open declaration to the world, but a private notice to a private individual who happens to have a great deal of power as the ruler of a nation.

Papal infallibility doesn't say that the Pope can't be wrong about anything ever, it says, once again, that the Pope can't be wrong on certain matters (faith and morality) when speaking ex cathedra, that is as Vicar of Christ. For anything else he's just as fallible as everyone.
Humility has nothing to do with this:
because the Pope is infallible (in that context, not in general. Outside of his position as Vicar of Christ the Pope can be a real douche and a really stupid person) according to Catholic dogma, there is no way on Earth that he will ever be like "Our christology may or may not be correct after all" after already having affirmed it, because admitting this is an attack on a dogma.

He also probably knows more about Catholicism than I do, so, any really stupid and obvious mistakes I make there are because I don't know rather than an intentional bastardization.

Yep, I'm trying to teach you there.

I also did not know that it is literally impossible for Catholicism to ever reverse a point like that, though. That seems like it could be problematic not just in terms of what can be done here, but also in real life... Which I'm sure has been a topic of debate in the past, so, I'm just going to say: "Huh, interesting, and potentially inconvenient." and stop there. There's now one extra hopefully in the line - hopefully he's successful, and hopefully no previously accepted Catholic stuff that I don't know about gets in the way of things I want to do in the coming years.

Now you know. Since you're playing as the Pope, you may want to stick to this.
Regarding your point, @Havocfett rather than going back and making an edit to a private message to an individual, I'm going to go ahead and assume that people aren't going to hunt down find and distribute copies of a personal letter showing his humility and willingness to accept and saying: "Oy he's not pope-y enough." And if they do, I'll figure out a way to spin it :)

To be quite honest a particularly pious receiver (Catholic or Orthodox) is going to take that letter extremely badly.
A Catholic ruler would be like "The flames of Hell have prevailed over the Church and Satan now owns the Vatican. Rome has literally committed apostasy and the Pope must be deposed immediately" and an Orthodox one may be like "HAH! Not even the Pope believes in the stuff he preaches. Look at this letter guys, the Pope's a phoney, now come over to the Orthodox side, we have awesome beards".
Best of things is both courses of action bring quite the prestige.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Papal infallibility doesn't say that the Pope can't be wrong about anything ever, it says, once again, that the Pope can't be wrong on certain matters (faith and morality) when speaking ex cathedra, that is as Vicar of Christ. For anything else he's just as fallible as everyone.
Humility has nothing to do with this:
because the Pope is infallible (in that context, not in general. Outside of his position as Vicar of Christ the Pope can be a real douche and a really stupid person) according to Catholic dogma, there is no way on Earth that he will ever be like "Our christology may or may not be correct after all" after already having affirmed it, because admitting this is an attack on a dogma.


--
To be quite honest a particularly pious receiver (Catholic or Orthodox) is going to take that letter extremely badly.
A Catholic ruler would be like "The flames of Hell have prevailed over the Church and Satan now owns the Vatican. Rome has literally committed apostasy and the Pope must be deposed immediately" and an Orthodox one may be like "HAH! Not even the Pope believes in the stuff he preaches. Look at this letter guys, the Pope's a phoney, now come over to the Orthodox side, we have awesome beards".
Best of things is both courses of action bring quite the prestige.

Well, to be fair he's not in Rome or the official pope yet, sort of just propped up by a south American nation and [hopefully] their allies and other Catholics in the world in response to the pope in Rome being connected with people who brought literal monsters to diplomacy with Germans and paved the way for non-interference in the attack of the literal-monsters and undead-hordes on Sweden/Norway... So it's not *Rome* that's saying this, technically :p

But yes, I think I get your point and I also think I don't really understand the nuance involved here at all.

How would you go about saying: "Hey, I know we have our differences and perhaps they're irreconcilable, but lets at least be civil, and allow one another access to each other's territory. I'd like the chance to save the souls of the people in your lands, and I know that the faithful of God will stick with Catholicism and not go the way of Orthodoxy, so I'm not really concerned that you'll convert people - and besides, letting you do your thing is the tolerant thing to do, and perhaps by showing off the virtues of the Pope and Catholicism, we'll be able to convert more of you back into the fold. God will prove me right in the end. Both of us stand to benefit from taking over Rome whether that be diplomatically or militarily." Because that's kind of what I'm trying to say. Except perhaps not including the "obviously we're better than you so that's why we're okay with doing this" bit. But that would be part of the intent behind the message, I think.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Well, to be fair he's not in Rome or the official pope yet, sort of just propped up by a south American nation and [hopefully] their allies and other Catholics in the world in response to the pope in Rome being connected with people who brought literal monsters to diplomacy with Germans and paved the way for non-interference in the attack of the literal-monsters and undead-hordes on Sweden/Norway... So it's not *Rome* that's saying this, technically :p

But yes, I think I get your point and I also think I don't really understand the nuance involved here at all.

How would you go about saying: "Hey, I know we have our differences and perhaps they're irreconcilable, but lets at least be civil, and allow one another access to each other's territory. I'd like the chance to save the souls of the people in your lands, and I know that the faithful of God will stick with Catholicism and not go the way of Orthodoxy, so I'm not really concerned that you'll convert people - and besides, letting you do your thing is the tolerant thing to do, and perhaps by showing off the virtues of the Pope and Catholicism, we'll be able to convert more of you back into the fold. God will prove me right in the end. Both of us stand to benefit from taking over Rome whether that be diplomatically or militarily." Because that's kind of what I'm trying to say. Except perhaps not including the "obviously we're better than you so that's why we're okay with doing this" bit. But that would be part of the intent behind the message, I think.

What do you mean? Do you want to send door-to-door preachers in Orthodox countries?
If you want some healthy ecumenism there's nothing wrong with it, but John Paul II, Benedict XVI and Francis have never compromised on faith. Proselytism there on the other hand... eh, I'm afraid it would realistically be welcomed badly. It weakens local authority and builds up loyalty for something foreign.
 
Last edited:
What do you mean? Do you want to send door-to-door preachers in Orthodox countries?
If you want some healthy ecumenism there's nothing wrong with it, but John Paul II, Benedict XVI and Francis have never compromised on faith. Proselytism there on the other hand... eh, I'm afraid it would realistically be welcomed badly. It weakens local authority and builds up loyalty for something foreign.
I mean, Rome and Constantinople are both important, unless I'm mistaken, to both Orthodox and Catholic religions - just mean having kind of, right of passage for anyone who wants to travel to holy sites, and rights for an official of respective churches to stay there. So while it wouldn't be as grand as the Vatican, there would be a Catholic bishop in Constantinople, and the Orthodox could have a Patriarch in Rome.

Trying to have something that would have meaning for Orthodox countries aside from: "Welp the Catholics are fighting again," that would make them want to intervene, without being a huge like: "Oh sh... we need help - beg!" and wouldn't turn off the Catholics so much that they'd say: "screw that, even if they helped the literal sea monsters and undead hordes we'd rather have the current guys than give *that* to the Orthodox"
 
I mean, Rome and Constantinople are both important, unless I'm mistaken, to both Orthodox and Catholic religions - just mean having kind of, right of passage for anyone who wants to travel to holy sites, and rights for an official of respective churches to stay there. So while it wouldn't be as grand as the Vatican, there would be a Catholic bishop in Constantinople, and the Orthodox could have a Patriarch in Rome.

Trying to have something that would have meaning for Orthodox countries aside from: "Welp the Catholics are fighting again," that would make them want to intervene, without being a huge like: "Oh sh... we need help - beg!" and wouldn't turn off the Catholics so much that they'd say: "screw that, even if they helped the literal sea monsters and undead hordes we'd rather have the current guys than give *that* to the Orthodox"

That's doable, I think. The Latin Patriarchy of Constantinople has historically existed and you could make it more than a honorific.
 
Rolling

EDIT: So economy remains the same and my magic rating goes up by 3

EDIT EDIT: Remembered my econ wrong, it goes up by 1
Walker Of Chaos threw 1 6-faced dice. Reason: ECONOMY!!!!!!!!!! Total: 4
4 4
Walker Of Chaos threw 4 6-faced dice. Reason: LOOOT Total: 18
5 5 5 5 5 5 3 3
 
Last edited:
Okay second take I realized I fucked up a really simple math thing and had to redo a bunch of shit. Go me. :V

Soft puppeting Denmark, leaving the institutional/magic quests plus tech and economy and all that jazz up to the GM's. Am doing the military 'cause it's a big finicky thing that does need fine detail and shit.

EXPANDED
15% of 14 EP = 2 (reotractive trade with Russia/Finland)
2% of 1828150 = 35108/36563
4992/5000mp

Legion of the Dead
Unfeeling: Will continue to fight until ordered to stop, or destroyed. Injuries matter not, and they do not feel fear.
Untiring: Don't need food or water or, generally, shelter.
Unthinking: While capable of performing a given task, such as 'advance and fight', 'load artillery' or 'kill swedes' even under changing circumstances, they can't act against these tasks even if it would be a good idea, nor are they particularly capable of interpreting clues or acting out of any instinct of self-preservation. This is why there are generally magisters deployed near them.
Unconscious: Incapable of gaining experience. Most are Green. Units that were Veteran or Experienced before their deaths create Trained corpses. If, somehow, you could create a unit of the dead from an Elite or Legendary group, you would have... Experienced dead. Human genius is not in the flesh alone.

Fenrisian Wolf Soldier (Artifact-Headwaters of the River Van):
Seeded throughout the Naglfarian military and supplied in numbers to the Kingdom of Denmark as a shock force, Fenrisian Wolf Soldiers are hulking mountains of fur and flesh. Hunters as at home in the night as the day. Bound to their patron beast, they may call upon the ancient blood of Fen Dweller to temporarily reinforce their bodies: veins bloating as flesh hardens into fine armor and wounds slowly seal, limbs trembling with monstrous strength, or bodies bursting into frenzied, red-wreathed movement. Though they are graced with a predator's hunger the personality below remains intact.
Army
Risen - Corps = 250mp/50,000
500 * [1.00 - .50 Risen]
x3
=750mp/0 (150,000)

AT Solutions - Engineering - Squad Mage - Mechanized - Tanker Battalion (+100 Heavy Tanks/+40 Artillery Batteries) = 42.5mp/1000
10 * [1.00 + .50 AT Solutions + .25 Engineering + 1.00 Squad Mages + 1.50 Mechanized]
x8
=340mp/8000

Fenrisian - Medic - Squad Mage - Mechanized - Shock Battalion = 45mp/1000
10 * [1.00 + .50 Fenrisian + .25 Medic + 1.00 Squad Mage + 1.50 Mechanized + .25 Shock]: 45mp/1000
x4
=180mp/4000

Medic + Squad Mage - Marine - Shock Company = ~7mp/250
2.5 * [1.00 + .25 Medic + 1.00 Squad Mage + .25 Marine + .25 Shock]
x4
=28mp/1000

Squad Mage - Para - Shock Company = ~7mp/250
2.5 * [1.00 + 1.00 Squad Mage + .50 Para + .25 Shock]
x4
=28mp/1000
Air Force

Long Range - Zeppelin (Heavy Bomber) Wing = 150mp/180
60 * [1.00 + .50 Long Range + 1.00 Zeppelin]
x2
=300mp/360

Air Superiority Wing = 60mp/60
x9
=540mp/540

Navy
Superheavy - Turret Battleship = 305mp/915
200 * [1.00 + .50 Superheavy] + 5 Turrets
x2
=610mp/1830

Pocket Battleship - Heavy Cruiser = ~158mp/474
90 * [1.00 + .75 Pocket Battleship]
x6
=948mp/2844

Air Defense - Light Cruiser = 90mp/270
60 * [1.00 + .50 Air Defense]
x6
=540mp/1350

Destroyer = 40mp/120
x10
=400mp/1200

Cruiser - Submarine = 36mp/108
20 * [1.00 + .80 Cruiser]
x8
=288mp/864

Minesweeper - Corvette = 10mp/30
20 * [1.00 - .5 Minesweeper]
x4
=40mp/120
 
Last edited:
OKAY THEN, TIME FOR THE INSTITUTION ROLL!
1 + 1[Tradition External Factor] + 1[1000 Military Points Spend] + 1[Hero] + 1[Effort Post] - 1[>100 Population] - 1[+1 Loyalty to Elitist Faction: Nizams] = 3 Pts. for 1685
THatWhichWillBe threw 1 6-faced dice. Reason: Institution Questo Total: 5
5 5
 
Last edited:
Back
Top