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Mercenary Mage Quest: Asur Dogs of War in Warhammer Fantasy

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Wow, that went really well
Blackout said:
The Fireclaws of Vaul
-An elven Mage specializing in Aqshy and Chamon, along with elite elven and human sharpshooters and spearmen, using alchemically enhanced firearms. Lightly armoured.
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Blackout said:
Ogre Butchers
-Priests of the terrifying Ogroid deity known as the Great Maw. Wield devastatingly effective magics backed with all the physical might of an Ogre, but are rather disturbing to allies. Fanriel believes that they would be particularly effective against the corrupted Nature Spirits.
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Having at least one of those 2 is imo a must. Aqshy is very good against both regenerating enemies like the Spawns and Forest Spirits, while the Butcher should be at the very least adequate against the Spawns.

Blackout said:
Herman Plesner
-Middenlander Wizard, unstable but devastatingly powerful.
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If we can't get One of the 2, that one could replace them.

Blackout said:
Westerlander Halberdiers
-Great against armour and larger enemies, vulnerable to missile fire. Equipped with halberds and medium armour.
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That would be good. Gors are bigger and stronger than humans so they should be pretty effective. Ditto for Spawns or any large monster.

Blackout said:
Westerlander Handgunners
-Devastating armour-piercing firepower that can inflict morale shock, but slow to reload, inaccurate and short-ranged. Equipped with handguns, swords and light armour.
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Blackout said:
Ostland Handgunners
-Devastating armour-piercing firepower that can inflict morale shock, but slow to reload, inaccurate and short-ranged. Equipped with handguns, swords and light armour.
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Blackout said:
Ostland Great Cannons
-Imported cannons from Nuln, with devastating effects if they hit but slow to move and reload, inaccurate, and requiring clear lines of sight.
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Those are right out. When fighting in the forest you can't be assured to have lines of sight. Combined with the slow reload, it makes them nearly useless in an environment where the enemy can close the distance very fast.

Blackout said:
Tilean Pikemen
-Armed with long pikes that make them deadly from the front when in formation, but highly vulnerable to being flanked or having their formation disrupted. Medium armour.
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Same for them, over rough terrain they will get slaughtered.
 
Ok, that was cool. We smashed the Beastmen easily and won some much needed renown.

Now, about the army composition... this will take time, but I also agree, that we should take the Jonge Bokken and Bull Knights. We have some good rapport with both and cooperating with the Bulls will help in the long run, since we do live in their keep for the time being.
 
Well that went well, and now we know the various mercenaries the count is employing so that's cool.

Scarloc apparently has no idea what went down in the grove.

Anyway, first thoughts: We're going to be fighting inside a thick forest. That likely means that large monsters like the mammoth and the giant are right out. Flyers like the griffons probably aren't too useful either, they will have negligible ability as scouts in such an environment and will probably have to fight on ground if it does come to combat.

Not sure how much an Aqshy mage like Valahuir can really do in such an environment as well. We want to destroy the grove, but we don't want to burn the forest around us.
 
Cavalry probably won't be deal for this terrain. There may be some places big enough to hold towns, but we can't rely on the Beastmen willingly going onto such a battlefield if we find one.

Edit: But we will need a counter for potential wolf riders and centigors cavalry.
 
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K von Carstein said:
Not too slow and steady tho, because the longer we wait the longer the beastmen can reinforce their position.
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Unless we go entirely unconventional forces the fastest we can go is the speed of a human on foot.

We should absolutely not delay and should plan a force that doesn't need to stop to hold of goblins, but I don't think anyone but maybe the dwarves would slow us down.

And so I think halberds and human archers are a good addition to give us numbers.

Ultimately I think the Lightfangs backed by the Fireclaws should cut through to the glade and I am fairly confident that we can destroy it. The human forces are there to hold the line and back the more elite forces up. Archers to shoot things and halberds to keep things from getting to the archers.
 
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DragonParadox said:
Witch Hunters would be nice so the magic specialists do not have to spent their time dispelling.
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We do need offensive magic as well, for the nature spirits.

Imperious said:
Well that went well, and now we know the various mercenaries the count is employing so that's cool.

Scarloc apparently has no idea what went down in the grove.

Anyway, first thoughts: We're going to be fighting inside a thick forest. That likely means that large monsters like the mammoth and the giant are right out. Flyers like the griffons probably aren't too useful either, they will have negligible ability as scouts in such an environment and will probably have to fight on ground if it does come to combat.

Not sure how much an Aqshy mage like Valahuir can really do in such an environment as well. We want to destroy the grove, but we don't want to burn the forest around us.
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Generally agreed, but I think we specifically want the Fireclaws and Hugo Fielck to provide needed magic to deal with the spirits. Fanriel can do some of that on her own, but we need more than just her.

EDIT: The Ogre Butchers are also a possibility here.
 
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Imperious said:
Well that went well, and now we know the various mercenaries the count is employing so that's cool.

Scarloc apparently has no idea what went down in the grove.

Anyway, first thoughts: We're going to be fighting inside a thick forest. That likely means that large monsters like the mammoth and the giant are right out. Flyers like the griffons probably aren't too useful either, they will have negligible ability as scouts in such an environment and will probably have to fight on ground if it does come to combat.

Not sure how much an Aqshy mage like Valahuir can really do in such an environment as well. We want to destroy the grove, but we don't want to burn the forest around us.
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I mean, mountainous forests are the gryphon's natural hunting ground. I would not underestimate them. Even landed they are EXTREMELY deadly murderblenders.
 
Imperious said:
Not sure how much an Aqshy mage like Valahuir can really do in such an environment as well. We want to destroy the grove, but we don't want to burn the forest around us.
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His fire will be useful to countering the spawn's regeneration though. I figure it's containable.

Fouredged Sword said:
I mean, mountainous forests are the gryphon's natural hunting ground. I would not underestimate them. Even landed they are EXTREMELY deadly murderblenders.
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And Griffon riders could be excellent for quickly killing the Beastlord, to help break their morale.
 
Ok, so it's going to be a forest battle for large parts of it.

- that means losse formations are gong to be needed, while 'tight' formations will struggle to stay in formation. and guns are going to struggle with limited line-of-sight.

-that will also be the same for long spears: swords, short spears, axes and halberds at longest.

E.g lest try and avoid guns and spear walls as a plan, forests are not their friends.
 
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DeadmanwalkingXI said:
Generally agreed, but I think we specifically want the Fireclaws and Hugo Fielck to provide needed magic to deal with the spirits. Fanriel can do some of that on her own, but we need more than just her.
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I'm not so sure. Dispelling is actually the one area of spell craft in which we're best due to one of our traits. We're probably a better dispeller then Fielck.

Generally I think our focus should be on elite infantry. Small enough to be able to fight unhindered within a forest, and with enough morale to not be too detered by stuff like Forest Spirits and Chaos Spawn. The Dwarfs would have been great for this, but the racial animus is a problem.

We also definitely want Scarloc and his band. They're a phenomenal troop type for an engagement like this and even if he hates us personally him and his Asrai will probably fight like lions for a grove like this one.

In contrast we should avoid taking too much of things that can't fight well in forests. No large monsters like giants, mammoths and griffons and little to no cavalry, who should primarily act as scouts on the way to the forest. Perhaps some ogres as well.
 
Imperious said:
In contrast we should avoid taking too much of things that can't fight well in forests. No large monsters like giants, mammoths and griffons and little to no cavalry, who should primarily act as scouts on the way to the forest. Perhaps some ogres as well.
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Keep in mind though, these are forests of the Old World. Large monsters absolutely can traverse them, if with the occasional (and sometimes unnecessary but done for the hell of it) removal of tree-based obstacles.
 
EVA-Saiyajin said:
Keep in mind though, these are forests of the Old World. Large monsters absolutely can traverse them, if with the occasional (and sometimes unnecessary but done for the hell of it) removal of tree-based obstacles.
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Yeah but if you're busy needing to take down a tree before you can move ahead a step then that's time and energy you're dedicating to removing the tree instead of fighting, putting you at a disadvantage. If the count was allowing us to just take whatever we want then sure, take the large monsters as well. But since we're essentially getting a "budget" for which troops to take it's more cost effective for us to take troop types that do well in such an environment, which is why I don't think we should take anything larger then an ogre and any cavalry whose role is to be anything other then scouts.

The forest seems a particularly bad environment for shock cavalry as well, since that's not an environment in which they can move enough to gain sufficient momentum for a charge.
 
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[] Plan Sixteen Tons
-[] The Singing Giant
-[] De Jonge Bokken
-[] Joachim and Butterbeak
-[] Adriana's Dragoons
-[] The Fireclaws of Vaul
-[] Tilean Pikemen
-[] Tilean Crossbowmen
-[] Ogre Butchers
-[] Ostland Halberdiers
-[] Ostland Mortars
-[] Ostland Ogres
-[] The Wayward Daughters

Basic plan for others to iterate off of.

---The Giant, Fireclaws, Butchers, Mortars, and Ogres are the heavy hitters and monster killers. The Giant and Ogres will help deal with any obstacles as well. Fireclaws also provides a bit of magical oomph. Mortars will also help force an engagement if they feel like being sneaky and holding back, and can also shoot at any rituals too far away so we don't have to run the gauntlet.
------In particular, if they're fully corrupted then I see no particular reason not to eat them with the Butchers.
---Pikemen will hold the center while others hold the flanks, Crossbowmen and assorted gunners provide our ranged options. Halberdiers are also brought along as needed, and I selected the Ostland ones so that their officers can serve as a go between with the mortars and ogres.
---Joachim and Butterbeak will serve primarily as messengers and scouts, though opportunistic assassination is good too.
---Wayward Daughters provides melee cav.

10ebbor10 said:
Should we ask the alchemists for some quasi-napalm to burn away the grove? Or are we going to just be stabbing it?
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Burning is good. Mortars and Fireclaws can handle that, and failing that hacking down some trees with Giant and Ogres.
 
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Imperious said:
Yeah but if you're busy needing to take down a tree before you can move ahead a step then that's time and energy you're dedicating to removing the tree instead of fighting, putting you at a disadvantage. If the count was allowing us to just take whatever we want then sure, take the large monsters as well. But since we're essentially getting a "budget" for which troops to take it's more cost effective for us to take troop types that do well in such an environment, which is why I don't think we should take anything larger then an ogre and any cavalry whose role is to be anything other then scouts.

The forest seems a particularly bad environment for shock cavalry as well, since that's not an environment in which they can move enough to gain sufficient momentum for a charge.
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These are old growth forests. You don't see them very much anymore, but once a forest gets to 200-300 years old the trees are dominated by massive trunks spread pretty far apart. A tree every 10-25 feet, not a tree every 3 feet. The canopy is also pretty solid, so there generally isn't a crazy amount of underbrush ether, save for places the tree cover is broken and a thicket springs up.

What most people imagine as forests are actually new growth forests where the trees are still fighting for skyline and the number of trunks per foot is actually pretty unsustainable.
 
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EVA-Saiyajin said:
His fire will be useful to countering the spawn's regeneration though. I figure it's containable.
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I agree.

The Mage-Smith is the best magic user we can bring with us and can do well in regular combat too. As for fire, that is a danger only to us. This forest is already corrupted beyond redemption and we must burn its heart to the ground. Without the heart, it will die either way.
Imperious said:
No large monsters like giants, mammoths and griffons and little to no cavalry, who should primarily act as scouts on the way to the forest. Perhaps some ogres as well.
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The Bulls can fight while on the road and as for the forest, they can dismount and go into combat as Greatswords. As we've seen in Jaarpen, heavily armoured Knights can do wonders even while on foot and with their zweihanders they will fight well against anything the Beastmen throw at us.

We shouldn't take any of the human spellcasters. This is a place heavily saturated with Dhar. They may go crazy, especially their glass cannon of a mage.
 
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Imperious said:
Yeah but if you're busy needing to take down a tree before you can move ahead a step then that's time and energy you're dedicating to removing the tree instead of fighting, putting you at a disadvantage. If the count was allowing us to just take whatever we want then sure, take the large monsters as well. But since we're essentially getting a "budget" for which troops to take it's more cost effective for us to take troop types that do well in such an environment, which is why I don't think we should take anything larger then an ogre and any cavalry whose role is to be anything other then scouts.

The forest seems a particularly bad environment for shock cavalry as well, since that's not an environment in which they can move enough to gain sufficient momentum for a charge.
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I think the Bulls can do well here.

They're heavy cavalry, but they're Ostlanders- they wouldn't still exist if they weren't able to fight in a forest.
 
Imperious said:
I'm not so sure. Dispelling is actually the one area of spell craft in which we're best due to one of our traits. We're probably a better dispeller then Fielck.
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We probably are, but that's entirely missing my point. We want additional people who can do things about the corrupted spirits in case Fanriel is busy or they come at us from behind while Fanriel is at the front or vice versa. They're an unpredictable threat that magic is actually required to deal with, if we have only Fanriel to deal with them and she's pinned down, they could massacre a large portion of our forces before she can be brought to bear. We need redundancy and better coverage.
 
Mopman43 said:
I think the Bulls can do well here.

They're heavy cavalry, but they're Ostlanders- they wouldn't still exist if they weren't able to fight in a forest.
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Well they can probably dismount but if you're taking heavy cavalry just so they can dismount and act as heavy infantry then why not just cut the cheese and get a force of heavy infantry to begin with like the Ostland Black Guard? The Black Guard seem like they could do great there being high morale infantry who can probably handle something spooky like the forest spirits and chaos spawn without routing but without the racial animus the Dwarfs have.
 
[] Rapid Response
- [] The Fireclaws of Vaul
- [] Scarloc's Archers
- [] Knights of the Bull
- [] Ogre Butchers

High speed low drag. Get there quick with elite forces and burn the heart out before retreating.

[] Conventional Wisdom
- [] The Fireclaws of Vaul
- [] Scarloc's Archers
- [] Knights of the Bull
- [] Ogre Butchers
- [] Westerlander Halberdiers
- [] Tilean Crossbowmen

An all mercenary force with the same elite core, but this time backed with halberds and crossbows so that as they punch forward the way out is held open, at the cost of getting there slower.
 
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Also, these are the Middle Mountains. I'd be surprised if there weren't Razorgors and chariots.
Fouredged Sword said:
These are old growth forests. You don't see them very much anymore, but once a forest gets to 200-300 years old the trees are dominated by massive trunks spread pretty far apart. A tree every 10-25 feet, not a tree every 3 feet. The canopy is also pretty solid, so there generally isn't a crazy amount of underbrush ether, save for places the tree cover is broken and a thicket springs up.

What most people imagine as forests are actually new growth forests where the tree are still fighting for skyline and the number of trunks per foot is actually pretty unsustainable.
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I mean, forests in the Empire can easily get impossibly thick. I don't think using RL forests as a basis works.
 
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