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Mercenary Mage Quest: Asur Dogs of War in Warhammer Fantasy

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Stewart9 said:
What he needed to do was listen to his actual friends and not Mother Dearest. Hell if he had just listened to what his big sister and big brother had said then he could have gone down in history as the Greatest Elven warrior after his father. But that was Malekith's flaw, his pride would not allow him to be second to anyone. He would rule and all others would bow or they did not deserve to exist.
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The parallels between Malekith and Issac Newton just keep increasing - Issac Newton was an unpleasant asshole, pursued life-long vendettas, and outlived his contemporaries.

Why Was Isaac Newton Such A Jerk?

Why Was Isaac Newton Such A Jerk?
Steven Ross Pomeroy
Nov 4, 2013,11:53am EST

The inescapable truth is that Isaac Newton wasn't the flower sniffing, rosy individual our elementary teachers portrayed him to be. Cold and calculating, cunning and quick-tempered, he just was not a nice guy. Plain and simple.

In 1995, J. Qureshi summed up Newton's personality in The Fountain Magazine:

"Newton did not marry. He did not, with a single brief exception, form any warm friendships. Though generous enough with his time and money when he had both to spare, he did not give with tenderness - either to relatives or acquaintances. He lived the extraordinarily narrow life of a dedicated auto-didact, hardly ever travelling outside London, Cambridge, Woolsthorpe. He was not given to lightness of manner, nor did he show any capacity for self-irony. When angered, he became unbalanced and, it must be said, vindictive and petty."

Though his personality didn't endear him to almost anyone, it served his career remarkably well. Ruthlessness is a surprising bedfellow to scientific success. When two other scientists, Robert Hooke and Gottfried Leibniz, offered criticism or competed with Newton for claim over the revolutionary ideas of gravity and calculus, Newton pursued personal vendettas against them. These grudges persisted even after Hooke and Leibniz were in their graves, with Newton trashing the reputations and discoveries of both Leibniz and Hooke while elevating his own. As Alasdair Wilkins noted in io9, the reason that everyone knows the name of Newton and not Leibniz or Hooke may simply be because he outlived them.
 
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Mystic Pentagram said:
Imrik was already araound at this time? I always trought he was pretty young.
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No, that's his ancestor whom he was named after.

When he became Phoenix King in the wake of Malekith's betrayal, he changed his name to Caledor in the honour of his grandfather, the Dragontamer, and since his son followed suit after his death, he would go on to become better known as Caledor I the Conqueror.
 
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I thought that before the massacre at the council of princes Imrik was relatively obscure and only got elected to be king because so many of Ulthuan's more prominent princes were killed, including his own older siblings.
 
Imperious said:
I thought that before the massacre at the council of princes Imrik was relatively obscure and only got elected to be king because so many of Ulthuan's more prominent princes were killed, including his own older siblings.
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Imrik was relatively obscure politically, because his elder brother Caledrian had to drag him kicking and screaming into participating in court politics and he would much rather spend his time hunting in the mountains or kicking Orc ass in the Old World with his dragons. But what he was well known for was the fact that he was the only elf alive who could match Malekith's military record, and so when Malekith went on and on and on about how he would be the tough leader the Asur would need in days to come and how he was the only one who could defend Ulthuan, a lot of moderates turned towards Imrik and went "Well, what about him? He's a strong military leader from an equally prestigious bloodline but has none of your baggage, why not him?"

It was Malekith's own hard man narrative that created the rivalry between him and Imrik (which, to a large extent, existed mainly in Malekith's head and Morathi's honeyed words. Bel-Shanaar had no intention of naming Imrik his successor and Imrik had zero ambition for the crown.). Of course, when Malekith betrayed the Council of Princes, Imrik's reclusive nature had kept him from attending the meeting, and in the minds of the surviving Princes he was firmly established as the only one they could trust to lead them as a wartime king.

Fun fact, Caledor I is my favorite character in the entire Warhammer Fantasy universe.
 
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Speaking of old grudges...

@Blackout, what about the issue of... naturalization. Can an Asur become a Druchii or vice versa (current time, long after the Sundering)? Are there any pardons, general amnesties, homages or laws regarding the issue? So far we established, that the Asrai don't take in new Elves. I know, that the Eonir had a social group for outsiders (the lowest one), but I'm not sure if they're still hiring so to speak.

So, how's it with switching allegiances (for one reason or the other)?
 
Sertorius said:
Speaking of old grudges...

@Blackout, what about the issue of... naturalization. Can an Asur become a Druchii or vice versa (current time, long after the Sundering)? Are there any pardons, general amnesties, homages or laws regarding the issue? So far we established, that the Asrai don't take in new Elves. I know, that the Eonir had a social group for outsiders (the lowest one), but I'm not sure if they're still hiring so to speak.

So, how's it with switching allegiances (for one reason or the other)?
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Well their is the kidnapping of kids and the use of Magic to mess with Memories but it's rare for a Elf who has been on one side of the divide for hundreds of years to switch sides and not be watched like a hawk.
 
Sertorius said:
Speaking of old grudges...

@Blackout, what about the issue of... naturalization. Can an Asur become a Druchii or vice versa (current time, long after the Sundering)? Are there any pardons, general amnesties, homages or laws regarding the issue? So far we established, that the Asrai don't take in new Elves. I know, that the Eonir had a social group for outsiders (the lowest one), but I'm not sure if they're still hiring so to speak.

So, how's it with switching allegiances (for one reason or the other)?
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Well in general, there's vanishingly few elves who would even want to move between the factions. Elves are characterized by their pride and arrogance, and it takes a lot for one of them to decide that their in-group is actually the inferior one.

The Asur do not officially accept defectors from the Druchii, there is simply too much bad blood and too many bad experiences: any system that the Asur set up to make sure they are genuine in their intent to defect, the Druchii can crack and use to send their own infiltrators through. That's not to say that defection doesn't happen, just that it happens secretly. Druchii spies coming to appreciate a society where they don't have to constantly fear being backstabbed and can be just appreciated for who they are is a real problem for Naggaroth's intelligence arm, and there's more than a few infiltrators who just stopped sending reports back and assimilated into Asur society.

Furthermore given that there are zero physical differences between Asur and Druchii it's not that hard for defectors to blend into Asur society if they can make it to Ulthuan or a port in the Old World where they have a presence, as long as they don't draw attention to themselves (which is why infiltrators rarely use this route, they're expected to provide a return on investment by seeking out a position where they can do real damage). There's also persistent rumours of (metaphorically) underground pipelines to smuggle Druchii defectors to Ulthuan, and that the Shadow Warriors of Nagarythe kidnap Druchii children to raise as one of them.

Ironically enough, the Druchii are actually more amenable to defectors than the Asur. Sure, they mostly enslave any Asur that they can get their hands on, but if a defector impresses them sufficiently by betraying their comrades they can be allowed to openly join Naggarothi society.

The Asrai are, as mentioned, complete isolationists.

The Eonir on the other hand probably see the most traffic back and forth. They are by far the smallest and weakest of the four major elven factions, meaning that they are the most desperate for more warriors, but also the most vulnerable to outward foes, meaning that refugees whose homes are destroyed by the various enemies threatening Laurelorn might simply decide to seek a better life elsewhere. They are also the most culturally neutral of the elven factions, where any of the other three can find common ground, and their common history is far less bitter and hateful than between the Asur and the Druchii. This makes it easier for them to receive immigrants, but also lowers the bar for Eonir to emigrate elsewhere.
 
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EVA-Saiyajin said:
Would you be willing to expound on why that is?
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Gladly.

Well, first of all, he looks cool as hell, so that's an immediate point in his favour.


I like dragons, that's another point in his favour. His interactions and bond with Maedrethnir are a lot of fun to read about, like when Maedrethnir knocks 10yo Caledor II on his ass for not showing proper respect and Caledor I just goes "Well you got what you asked for". Or when they find out about the existence of Black Dragons and Caledor wants to keep fighting, Maedrethnir literally rips out his harness, drops Caledor's ass on the ground and goes "you sit there, I'm going to go win you your war" before flying back to the Dragonspine Mountains and awakening a horde of outraged dragons to take vengeance upon the Druchii for this desecration.

Thirdly, he is stoic to the point of hilarity. When he finds out about Malekith's betrayal, he has an exchange with another elf that goes something like this:

"Malekith has murdered the Council of Princes and Nagarythe has risen in rebellion."

"That's bad."

"What does this mean?"

"War."

Or his relationship with Yvraine which can pretty much be summed up as "I have no time for sex when there's Druchii to kill".

Fourthly, he is badass in his fields of specialty but has clear flaws that he must struggle with. He's a brilliant general who runs rings around Malekith on the strategic level, but he can't beat him in combat, and he struggles a lot to win the hearts of his people because he's incredibly stoic and taciturn by nature. Perhaps most lastingly, he fails to properly parent his elder son, which develops into a variety of inferiority complexes and jealousy issues that will one day bring untold ruin upon the world.

Fifthly, his character arc as he matures from a grizzled stubborn veteran into a charismatic and beloved king is one of my favorite character developments in fiction. Contrasted against Malekith simply issuing orders while the Druchii abase themselves before him and hang onto his every word, the scene where Caledor finally realizes that he can't just push the Princes around, and the only way to get them to follow him rather than simply being dragged along in his wake is by being a leader rather than a tyrant, by revealing his thoughts to them and allaying their fears rather than just expecting them to blindly obey, is simply fantastic.

He then marches back inside the council chambers he stormed out of a moment ago, sets down his crown and cloak, and tells the gathered Princes "I am Imrik again. Forget the cloak and the crown. Forget the Phoenix King. Listen to Imrik, dragon prince of Caledor, who you all turned to in your time of desperation."

Then he lays out the facts on the table, all of his thoughts and fears and considerations on their situation, addressing the Princes' concerns and doubts one by one. And then they get to work on hatching the plan to save Ulthuan.

And that is the moment that Caledor won the Sundering, more than any victory on the battlefield.
 
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Blackout said:
Thirdly, he is stoic to the point of hilarity. When he finds out about Malekith's betrayal, he has an exchange with another elf that goes something like this:

"Malekith has murdered the Council of Princes and Nagarythe has risen in rebellion."

"That's bad."

"What does this mean?"

"War."

Or his relationship with Yvraine which can pretty much be summed up as "I have no time for sex when there's Druchii to kill".
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No outward signs of mourning over his killed family?

Was there an expectation that the union between the Phoenix King and Everqueen be an actual marriage like between Aenarion and Astarielle rather then a formal temporary union to produce the next Everqueen that it was by Finubar's time? Was it Imrik's own behavior that created the latter precedent?
 
Blackout said:
And that is the moment that Caledor won the Sundering, more than any victory on the battlefield.
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What was the relationship between Imrik and Malekith before the Sundering?

I mean, as fellow veterans and warriors I can see them bonding over many things. Then somebody said, that the Dragon Prince might be a better option for leadership, which must have soured their relationship. How did that develop during the war and later, when it became obvious, that the rebellion failed and Malekith had to run for the frost hills. Did he see Caledor only as a usurper and insignificant speck or was there still any form of respect for his military might?
 
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Caledor the Griller by IEatAssSometimes
  • Apocrypha
    • Blackout said:
    Thirdly, he is stoic to the point of hilarity. When he finds out about Malekith's betrayal, he has an exchange with another elf that goes something like this:

    "Malekith has murdered the Council of Princes and Nagarythe has risen in rebellion."

    "That's bad."

    "What does this mean?"

    "War."
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    Holy shit Door HTP but elf holy mother of peak


    Imagine just wanting to chill with your dragon friend but all these fucking elves keep telling you to do your job literally 1984 ngl
     
  • Apocrypha
    • Imperious said:
    No outward signs of mourning over his killed family?
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    He does ask after Caledrian. The remainder of his family was fine.

    Imperious said:
    Was there an expectation that the union between the Phoenix King and Everqueen be an actual marriage like between Aenarion and Astarielle rather then a formal temporary union to produce the next Everqueen that it was by Finubar's time? Was it Imrik's own behavior that created the latter precedent?
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    It was a gradual process that his actions contributed to, but Aenarion and Astarielle were the only ones to have a proper marriage.

    Every Phoenix King and Everqueen had their own unique relationship: some were close and came together many times after the ceremonial marriage was over, others just did their duty and moved on. Caledor I is notable for being the only Phoenix King to not have consummated the marriage at all, but it wasn't as bad as it seemed because Yvraine was still the Everqueen and her kids with Bel-Shanaar were safely hidden away, so there wasn't a pressing need to produce an heir.

    IEatAssSometimes said:
    Holy shit Door HTP but elf holy mother of peak


    Imagine just wanting to chill with your dragon friend but all these fucking elves keep telling you to do your job literally 1984 ngl
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    I'm not going to lie I do kind of headcanon Caledor I as being on the asexual spectrum because the hottest elf in existence keeps sending him messengers to tell him it's really, really important that he come to Avelorn and bang her but he just keeps telling them no, I have more important things to do. For 550 years.
     
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    Blackout said:
    I'm not going to lie I do kind of headcanon Caledor I as being on the asexual spectrum because the hottest elf in existence keeps sending him messengers to tell him it's really, really important that he come to Avelorn and bang her but he just keeps telling them no, I have more important things to do. For 550 years.
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    asexual or gay? or maybe he was just really in love with his mount and was deadly afraid of cheating on a dragon completely faithful to Maedrethnir.
    Nontheless, not wanting to have sex with someone you barely know isn't the strangest thing in the world, regardless of how attractive they are.
     
    Blackout said:
    I'm not going to lie I do kind of headcanon Caledor I as being on the asexual spectrum because the hottest elf in existence keeps sending him messengers to tell him it's really, really important that he come to Avelorn and bang her but he just keeps telling them no, I have more important things to do. For 550 years.
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    Ace King (in both senses of the phrase)

    Legit though I love this interpretation. Headcanon adopted.
     
    Blackout said:
    I'm not going to lie I do kind of headcanon Caledor I as being on the asexual spectrum because the hottest elf in existence keeps sending him messengers to tell him it's really, really important that he come to Avelorn and bang her but he just keeps telling them no, I have more important things to do. For 550 years.
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    Well him being considered to be Imrik's ancestor does suggest that Caledor I had a child at some point. Another explanation could be, from the way you've described him so far, that he was the type to consider it immoral for him to take any sort of break or enjoyment while his people were suffering during wartime. In that regard I'm reminded of the story in the bible in which King David impregnates the wife of one of his soldiers during wartime. When David finds out about the pregnancy, he has the soldier called home, ostensibly in order to praise him for his heroism and efforts on the battlefield, and tells the soldier to go back home and spend some time with his wife, David hoping that through that he could pass on his own child as being the soldier's, only for David's plot to fail when the soldier refuses, saying that it would be a disgrace for him to spend time enjoying himself with his wife at a time in which his comrades at arms are suffering on the battlefield.
     
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    Imperious said:
    In that regard I'm reminded of the story in the bible in which King David impregnates the wife of one of his soldiers during wartime. When David finds out about the pregnancy, he has the soldier called home, ostensibly in order to praise him for his heroism and efforts on the battlefield, and tells the soldier to go back home and spend some time with his wife, David hoping that through that he could pass on his own child as being the soldier's, only for David's plot to fail when the soldier refuses, saying that it would be a disgrace for him to spend time enjoying himself with his wife at a time in which his comrades at arms are suffering on the battlefield.
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    What a charming fellow David was, truly an inspiring leader and wise ruler.
     
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