Magical Girl Quest - The Fire That Burns

[Rukia]

I'd rather have died honestly. I can undestand the whole conceptual magic mishap because of phrasing, but that doesn't excuse Cerys using herself as bait.

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They they would only attack you if you approached the walls.
Your suggestion on how to bait them?

This is what happens when you experiment with dangerous magic, which I have warned you of, during the middle of a mission.

 

[random_npc]

ok experimenting was stupid, but I kind of feel that this went from "I don't have enough info to make a plan" to "oh god I'm dead" in the space of an update. Now that happens sometimes but it's not really fun you know?

The only thing that looks like might have worked was to burn the site to the ground from the air, which we had been asked not to do unless we had to. By the time we realized it was necessary we were down.

 

[Vanguard_D]

Snark is not helpful.

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And having the character continue with a plan that failed at the first step, dropping the character to half health, is just bad GMing. Or Cerys is an idiot but in that case she developed that trait just for this update so still bad GMing.

 

[Rukia]

ok experimenting was stupid, but I kind of feel that this went from "I don't have enough info to make a plan" to "oh god I'm dead" in the space of an update. Now that happens sometimes but it's not really fun you know?

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Thank you, for the non-salty feedback.
Ambushes suck.

And having the character continue with a plan that failed at the first step, dropping the character to half health, is just bad GMing. Or Cerys is an idiot but in that case she developed that trait just for this update so still bad GMing.

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The plan was detailed enough that I thought it could cover for injuries.
You aren't dead, everyone is acting as if you are.

Give me Bad Plans = Character executes bad plans

 

[Naron]

Okay, let me see, let me see... how could this have been prevented without destroying the whole camp?
(I am not doing this out of spite... I use it to calm down; please no salt on this)

We could not sense anything with Thermal Control and they attacked out of the walls/ground. Any time we went near those, we had to dodge or eat the hit without knowing where exactly they were.

The overall plan would have been fine, seeing that it did work at first... but this incredible amount of damage was what stopped it from working.
Just so we are on the same page... these things have a Base Damage of 450.
Thunderbird, our most terrifying opponent so far, had 140 Base Damage and a Spell for 200.
These things outclass it in damage by almost three times as much, while being intangible...

How did no one notice them?


Granted, she could have taken a hit at full life, but only barely.

Now for the Shop... we could have bought one level of Armoured Soul, or one/two levels in a Spell, or three levels in A&O, but none of those would have made any difference. The latter does too little damage here, the former would not have stopped a second hit even if we started at full life and we finished off those guys fast enough as is.


In short... unless I missed something really important, this mission was impossible from the start. Unless we blasted everything, we would have died to a lucky hit or two anyway.

Please tell me what I missed, it bothers me...

 

[Inferno67]

Since we got severely injured while experimenting, I would have changed what we did in the later half of the vote. With battles like this taking only a single chapter it's impossible to change the plan even if something goes catastrophically wrong at the very beginning.

 

[Codex]

Thank you, for the non-salty feedback.
Ambushes suck.


The plan was detailed enough that I thought it could cover for injuries.
You aren't dead, everyone is acting as if you are.

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I keep saying Cerys is not dead and they should vote to see what happens next.

Not much response.

BTW, Armored Soul merged with Will to Survive to give us ???. We triggered Will to Survive, but what about ???.

 

[ShadowAngelBeta]

The plan was detailed enough that I thought it could cover for injuries.
You aren't dead, everyone is acting as if you are.

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Because we half-saw this coming from a mile away and there was nothing we could actually do about it.

And we're only not dead because of a single bullshit Ability. Ever heard of a moral loss? We all but lost in the space of a single update.

 

[Vanguard_D]

Well, any plan from now will just have to add 'in case something goes wrong on step one and it is possible, do not continue with a suicidal charge'

 

[random_npc]

Okay, let me see, let me see... how could this have been prevented without destroying the whole camp?
(I am not doing this out of spite... I use it to calm down; please no salt on this)

We could not sense anything with Thermal Control and they attacked out of the walls/ground. Any time we went near those, we had to dodge or eat the hit without knowing where exactly they were.

The overall plan would have been fine, seeing that it did work at first... but this incredible amount of damage was what stopped it from working.
Just so we are on the same page... these things have a Base Damage of 450.
Thunderbird, our most terrifying opponent so far, had 140 Base Damage and a Spell for 200.
These things outclass it in damage by almost three times as much, while being intangible...

How did no one notice them?


Granted, she could have taken a hit at full life, but only barely.

Now for the Shop... we could have bought one level of Armoured Soul, or one/two levels in a Spell, or three levels in A&O, but none of those would have made any difference. The latter does too little damage here, the former would not have stopped a second hit even if we started at full life and we finished off those guys fast enough as is.


In short... unless I missed something really important, this mission was impossible from the start. Unless we blasted everything, we would have died to a lucky hit or two anyway.

Please tell me what I missed, it bothers me...

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if we hadn't found out playing around with magic can ding our hp we would have been able to fly up and play keep away, which would likely have given us a chance to make a plan with actual information.

 

[Naron]

if we hadn't found out playing around with magic can ding our hp we would have been able to fly up and play keep away.

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They would not have attacked us and stayed in the walls if we were out of range.
The one enemy got a lucky hit (we were dodging just fine with Flight before), why should another not do the same? Which would still make us dead.

 

[Rukia]

In short... unless I missed something really important, this mission was impossible from the start. Unless we blasted everything, we would have died to a lucky hit or two anyway.

Please tell me what I missed, it bothers me...

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Not every mission can be accomplished the way you want it to.
Fight without destroying the area? Get hit.
Destroy the area? Don't get hit.

It is common sense. If you want to get close with your squishy character, expect to get tagged by something sooner or later.

Since we got severely injured while experimenting, I would have changed what we did in the later half of the vote. With battles like this taking only a single chapter it's impossible to change the plan even if something goes catastrophically wrong at the very beginning.

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Don't experiment in the middle of a mission next time.
Especially on something I warned you off of multiple times.

 

[Naron]

Not every mission can be accomplished the way you want it to.
Fight without destroying the area? Get hit.
Destroy the area? Don't get hit.

It is common sense. If you want to get close with your squishy character, expect to get demolished by something sooner or later.

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...
Okay.
After we were told explicitely not to destroy the whole area, you tell us that we should have just ignored that and gone for nuclear?

 

[Darkfire]

You aren't dead, everyone is acting as if you are.

Give me Bad Plans = Character executes bad plans

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I keep saying Cerys is not dead and they should vote to see what happens next.

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I don't want to wake up in a shitty hospital.

Now that I'm calmer, what you should have done was stop the update after the training accident.

The plan we've made assumed Cerys was thinking normally. You should have given us a chance to change tracks.

 

[Rukia]

...
Okay.
After we were told explicitely not to destroy the whole area, you tell us that we should have just ignored that and gone for nuclear?

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"It would be best if the complex could be left undamaged, but we understand that it might need to be destroyed entirely to rid us of the ghosts permanently."
I nowhere say you can't destroy the area, I even state that it is an option.
That is entirely your own interpretation.

Now that I'm calmer, what you should have done was stop the update after the training accident.

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If this was at base, I would have.
This is what you get for doing something stupid in the middle of a mission that didn't work out.

 

[Vanguard_D]

Not every mission can be accomplished the way you want it to.
Fight without destroying the area? Get hit.
Destroy the area? Don't get hit.

It is common sense. If you want to get close with your squishy character, expect to get tagged by something sooner or later.

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... And we are back to the fact that before a comment after this very update, you where outright penalizing for using that very tactic. And we where told not to destroy the area... yeah that is pure bullshit right there.

 

[Codex]

Alright, so I get how this all could be resolved.

@Rukia I suggest maybe making it so if a plan fails in the starting stages, that you stop the update for us to adjust our plan.

I think it'd be better for all of us.

 

[random_npc]

Not every mission can be accomplished the way you want it to.
Fight without destroying the area? Get hit.
Destroy the area? Don't get hit.

It is common sense. If you want to get close with your squishy character, expect to get demolished by something sooner or later.

Click to shrink...

we had specifically been told not to destroy the place unless we had to, and we had no idea of what we were up against beyond it being able to take out enforcers, who are sub speed bump to us and thus not useful as a measuring stick.

as a rule of thumb if a mission control NPC who the players like asks the pc's not to do something they won't do it unless they have reason to believe they have to. So being asked not to burn it down if we didn't have to meant the players were going to try and keep the site intact unless it became clear these things where really dangerous.

to reduce it to simple game terms, we had a secondary objective that was impossible with what we had, but we had no real way to know that until we tried to accomplish it and got ganked.

edit: a solution to this would have been giving us a chance to come up with a new plan after things went wrong. make the cost of trying to preserve the site high, but not lethal.

 

[Brainwasher]

Experimenting in the middle of a mission like Cerys did was incredibly stupid, but even moreso was Cerys continuing on whilst significantly injured straight after without any thoughts about adjusting her strategy.

 

[ShadowAngelBeta]

Alright, so I get how this all could be resolved.

@Rukia I suggest maybe making it so if a plan fails in the starting stages, that you stop the update for us to adjust our plan.

I think it'd be better for all of us.

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Experimenting in the middle of a mission like Cerys did was incredibly stupid, but even moreso was Cerys continuing on whilst significantly injured straight after without any thoughts about adjusting her strategy.

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Rukia stuck with Naron's plan. Which made no mention of trying to use the End experiment in the attack/lure/ambush itself either.

The experiment? Yes, stupid. What followed after? Was the plan people voted on.

 

[Rukia]

... And we are back to the fact that before a comment after this very update, you where outright penalizing for using that very tactic. And we where told not to destroy the area... yeah that is pure bullshit right there.

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"I actually regret doing that, I won't in the future.
It's not up to me if you should get XP for killing something or not, it's the mechanics.
So yes, you get your XP for that, I'll give it to you next chapter, when I give you this chapters XP."

Alright, so I get how this all could be resolved.

@Rukia I suggest maybe making it so if a plan fails in the starting stages, that you stop the update for us to adjust our plan.

I think it'd be better for all of us.

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For combat?
No can do.

No plan survives contact with the enemy.
You can give me your best plan, and I'll run with it.
This isn't becoming Asuka/SayakaQuest

If you are in the pre-combat stages (scouting etc), I am willing to do this.

we had specifically been told not to destroy the place unless we had to, and we had no idea of what we were up against beyond it being able to take out enforcers, who are sub speed bump to us and thus not useful as a measuring stick.

as a rule of thumb if a mission control NPC who the players like asks the pc's not to do something they won't do it unless they have reason to believe they have to. So being asked not to burn it down if we didn't have to meant the players were going to try and keep the site intact unless it became clear these things where really dangerous.

to reduce it to simple game terms, we had a secondary objective that was impossible with what we had, but we had no real way to know that until we tried to accomplish it and got ganked.

Click to shrink...

Lack of Intel is bad.

Rukia stuck with Naron's plan. Which made no mention of trying to use the End experiment in the attack/lure/ambush itself either.

The experiment? Yes, stupid. What followed after? Was the plan people voted on.

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If it had worked, I would have used it.
The plan makes no mention of using Halt, but I did.
Cerys isn't inflexible with planning, there just wasn't a better option.

 

[Naron]

The plan makes no mention of using Halt, but I did.

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--[X] then check the buildings one by one; do not engage if you find an enemy, but draw them out of the buildings and Halt them once the enforcers can get a clear line of sight

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[Darkfire]

The plan makes no mention of using Halt, but I did.

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It kinda did?

[X] then check the buildings one by one; do not engage if you find an enemy, but draw them out of the buildings and Halt them once the enforcers can get a clear line of sight

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Edit:

Cerys isn't inflexible with planning, there just wasn't a better option.

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That's an understatement.

Reading that line, I was assuming Cerys would try different ways to lure them until something stick EXCEPT using herself as bait. Instead she went straight to use herself as bait.

 

[Rukia]

Snip

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My bad, for some reason WordPad screwed up and removed that line, and another from the vote when I copied it over :/

 

[Akritedes]

The moral people should be taking away from this is the understanding that glass cannons are inherently fragile, and any tactic that involves putting one at risk can very quickly become life-threatening. No one rolls a howitzer up into the frontlines and expects it to be safe, I'm not sure why this is any different.

I have no idea what people are actually taking away from it, though. Other than enough salt to taint a good-sized chunk of cropland, anyways.

Cerys is a tank destroyer. She has a fuck-off huge gun, good mobility, and dick-all in the way of survivability. Allowing anything even remotely in her weight-class to land a hit on her is lethal.

This is not new. Nothing has changed in this paradigm. Why is it so surprising to people?