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[Mafia] A Murder of Crows

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Wait a sec. Isn't that exactly how we WOULD kill Wiadi, no matter if he is a Jackdaw or not? I meam, wasn't it the plan to provide cover on the Not-Wiadi wagon so the other Jackdaw doesn't have to claim?

Please swap this part and the Quote, phoneposting sucks.
Terrabrand said:
If we want to prevent the test from being fucked with correct play would be to make the Not Wiadi wagon exclusively people confirmed not jackdaw.
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The last I thought, we tried to ally with the non-magpie factions to hunt down the magpie.
This now reeks slightly of throwing a wrench into the cooperation.
 
I thought the plan was to vote for Wiadi but leave enough room so that he and his ally could bail him out if he was a Jackdaw, and kill kill him if he wasn't.
 
mesonoxian said:
I thought the plan was to vote for Wiadi but leave enough room so that he and his ally could bail him out if he was a Jackdaw, and kill kill him if he wasn't.
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Honest question: Am I being stupid?
... Yes, I am. Damn.

Somehow I thought we wanted to provide cover for the second Jackdaw to jump onto the other claim. But if Wiadi IS a Jackdaw, he'll save himself.
 
yeah technically I should have said 'the not wiadi wagon be like, wiadi and the confirmed not jackdaws'.

The point is to create a situation in which we can't have an anonymous jackdaw save wiadi by supporting him so they can leave us on a magpie witchhunt while they keep robbing him, since the risk has been raised.

I'm not sure how much time is left but if people are concerned we should probably start arranging the wagons towards that goal.
 
Terrabrand said:
yeah technically I should have said 'the not wiadi wagon be like, wiadi and the confirmed not jackdaws'.

The point is to create a situation in which we can't have an anonymous jackdaw save wiadi by supporting him so they can leave us on a magpie witchhunt while they keep robbing him, since the risk has been raised.

I'm not sure how much time is left but if people are concerned we should probably start arranging the wagons towards that goal.
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Where should my vote go to help with this?
 
mesonoxian said:
Where should my vote go to help with this?
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In practice I don't think your vote matters to this? Technically, it could be a long game but... Well, as long as you're voting either Wiadi or nobody, and not propping up the counter wagon it should eliminate any outside chance you're actually a jackdaw and him a magpie. *shrug*.
 
Terrabrand said:
In practice I don't think your vote matters to this? Technically, it could be a long game but... Well, as long as you're voting either Wiadi or nobody, and not propping up the counter wagon it should eliminate any outside chance you're actually a jackdaw and him a magpie. *shrug*.
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Okay, right now I am voting Nictis, I will leave my vote there right now unless somebody tells me otherwise before I am asleep.
 
Any plan involving careful vote arrangement probably shouldn't involve me for a while, as I'm going to be heading off to sleep in the next half hour or so. Aside from that, at the moment Wiadi has five votes on them and meso has 2 + 3 votes.
 
NSMS said:
Any plan involving careful vote arrangement probably shouldn't involve me for a while, as I'm going to be heading off to sleep in the next half hour or so. Aside from that, at the moment Wiadi has five votes on them and meso has 2 + 3 votes.
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4-5, one vote on Wiadi is BB, who got replaced by Nictis.
 
mesonoxian said:
I have been trying to include my affiliation when I mention things like my steal because that effects the order of operations and I want to make sure we build up an accurate picture of how the night went, since that is our only real chance of isolating the magpie unless they slip up in a fairly signal way.
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So much so that you've been doing it since Day 1.
mesonoxian said:
The magpie is definitely the biggest threat. They should be the easiest to eliminate too, since neither the jackdaws nor the ravens have any interest in protecting them.

I don't think we should prioritize outing the jackdaws at this point. The process of narrowing down who they are from vote irregularities is likely to take a long time. Even moreso since they can work together to muddy the waters. And they just aren't as dangerous as the other two factions.

I think our efforts are better spent hunting the magpie first then moving on to the ravens. My guess is the jackdaws will wind up outing themselves. They can't let their team mate get pecked, and that is bound to produce a tell eventually.
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mesonoxian said:
Sure I have something to fear. The jackdaws might well choose to lynch me and since your plan probably won't work, the result is getting a crow killed for bupkis.
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mesonoxian said:
No, I reported accurately. I tried to steal from Terra and got nothing. (And I am a crow).
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mesonoxian said:
At this point, I don't know for sure if Wiadi is the magpie or not, but I am content with pecking a noncrow.
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mesonoxian said:
And if this plan doesn't come together, I am cool with pecking a Jackdaw or Raven today, too, though getting the Magpie is ideal.
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mesonoxian said:
My feeling is just that I see very little way Wiadi could be a crow, so there's no real down side to them being eliminated in the abstract, but I'd much prefer to catch the magpie than any other non-crow today and take the threat of an early game end off the table.
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mesonoxian said:
Why am I supposed to be the magpie again? I am a crow, I don't have a shiny thing, I stole from Terrabrand last night and was told I got nothing.
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mesonoxian said:
If you have any other advice on finding the magpie, I would be delighted to hear it. As it seems to me, the only method under consideration was Terrabrands plan to test Wiadi's Jackdaw claim, but the absence of any counterclaim and the apparent team dynamics make that seem increasingly redundant. So no, I'm not doing much magpie hunting, because I have no idea how I would right now. And the nonmagpie subjects are off limits right now,.
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See below.
mesonoxian said:
I think we can. The magpie has a lot of information nobody else has. Once cases start being made, it's going to be hard to keep that information from slipping into their arguments.

And we need to at least try. No other faction can win until night 8. But the magpie can walk away with the win at any point as long as they are alive.
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mesonoxian said:
I'm not a Jackdaw, if I were I'd have already counterclaimed Wiadi.
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Interesting.

The reason I suspect you is because you've been pushing the "I'm Town, I'm Town!" angle way too much, and the way you've reacted to the pressure is rather familiar to how you've handled it as Scum. It's largely gut, but it's not like we're going to have anything *better* than gut here.

You've been saying that we need to find the magpie, that the magpie is the biggest threat, but haven't been making any actual attempt at finding the magpie.

Also, I am really curious as to what 'Meta' reason you have to claim that you believe I'm a magpie. As is, that just looks like pointless shading.
Terrabrand said:
Wiadi's preference for a meso lynch makes jackdaw meso incredibly unlikelu
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Distancing is a very simple explanation for it. They functionally cancel each other's vote out when voting each other and with your plan keeping Wiadi above the next wagon means that there is no real risk of Meso getting lynched in place of Wiadi, while also allowing Meso to pick up the Shiny that Wiadi is still carrying.

I'm more inclined to bet on Meso being a Jackdaw than the Magpie, but he's a solid bet for either position really.
 
right, what this means is if @Wiadi is determined to kill Meso, then myself/-Rosen/Shadell/Rayday should replace people like @Nictis and @TheMaskedReader on the meso wagon. Obviously the same logic applies wherever wiadi wants his vote. The point is to eliminate the possibility that Wiadi is a magpie being stealth supported by a jackdaw.
 
Nictis said:
Distancing is a very simple explanation for it. They functionally cancel each other's vote out when voting each other and with your plan keeping Wiadi above the next wagon means that there is no real risk of Meso getting lynched in place of Wiadi, while also allowing Meso to pick up the Shiny that Wiadi is still carrying.

I'm more inclined to bet on Meso being a Jackdaw than the Magpie, but he's a solid bet for either position really.
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right but if Wiadi flips jackdaw then we know there was a jackdaw on the wiadi wagon.

It's hard bussing that narrows who you are insanely.
 
Nictis said:
So much so that you've been doing it since Day 1.

See below.


Interesting.

The reason I suspect you is because you've been pushing the "I'm Town, I'm Town!" angle way too much, and the way you've reacted to the pressure is rather familiar to how you've handled it as Scum. It's largely gut, but it's not like we're going to have anything *better* than gut here.

You've been saying that we need to find the magpie, that the magpie is the biggest threat, but haven't been making any actual attempt at finding the magpie.

Also, I am really curious as to what 'Meta' reason you have to claim that you believe I'm a magpie. As is, that just looks like pointless shading.

Distancing is a very simple explanation for it. They functionally cancel each other's vote out when voting each other and with your plan keeping Wiadi above the next wagon means that there is no real risk of Meso getting lynched in place of Wiadi, while also allowing Meso to pick up the Shiny that Wiadi is still carrying.

I'm more inclined to bet on Meso being a Jackdaw than the Magpie, but he's a solid bet for either position really.
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I think I am likely to die (since I am pretty sure that Wiadi is actually a JAckdaw and I seem like a likely candidate for the other wagon).

When I flip crow, please remember this post right here, ^^^^^
 
mesonoxian said:
I think I am likely to die (since I am pretty sure that Wiadi is actually a JAckdaw and I seem like a likely candidate for the other wagon).

When I flip crow, please remember this post right here, ^^^^^
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Yes everyone, please remember the time that Nictis pursued his scumread.

I want to know. What was the Meta reason? What reason could you think of that had me being a Magpie after replacing in and only saying "Who" and "Hoot"?
 
Terrabrand said:
right, what this means is if @Wiadi is determined to kill Meso, then myself/-Rosen/Shadell/Rayday should replace people like @Nictis and @TheMaskedReader on the meso wagon. Obviously the same logic applies wherever wiadi wants his vote. The point is to eliminate the possibility that Wiadi is a magpie being stealth supported by a jackdaw.
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Yeah I'm not, like, dead set on meso but he does seem like the most likely option at present. At any rate his defense has been fairly unpersuasive and no better candidate has been brought forward.
 
Nictis said:
Yes everyone, please remember the time that Nictis pursued his scumread.

I want to know. What was the Meta reason? What reason could you think of that had me being a Magpie after replacing in and only saying "Who" and "Hoot"?
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Since you asked, it's that your role was already replaced twice.

Swapping out when you have a partner you are supposed to be building rapport with would be really rough on team survival, and I think I know who the Jackdaws are. The Ravens have a QT, which makes playing with less than full attention easier, and a crow is basically a vanilla townie and can coast.

The Jackdaw has a complex role and no help, making it a logical one to feel overwhelming to multiple players.

Not a silver bullet or anything, but it is why I'd put my money there if I had to bet.

I resisted the intial temptation to vote you on those grounds because it seemed pretty low to use people needing to sub out as a game element, but given the refusal to explain your votes or communicate, I decided that was grounds enough to vote where my gut told me the magpie was, so long as I didn't bring it up as a justification.
 
mesonoxian said:
Since you asked, it's that your role was already replaced twice.

Swapping out when you have a partner you are supposed to be building rapport with would be really rough on team survival, and I think I know who the Jackdaws are. The Ravens have a QT, which makes playing with less than full attention easier, and a crow is basically a vanilla townie and can coast.

The Jackdaw has a complex role and no help, making it a logical one to feel overwhelming to multiple players.

Not a silver bullet or anything, but it is why I'd put my money there if I had to bet.

I resisted the intial temptation to vote you on those grounds because it seemed pretty low to use people needing to sub out as a game element, but given the refusal to explain your votes or communicate, I decided that was grounds enough to vote where my gut told me the magpie was, so long as I didn't bring it up as a justification.
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That's, um, pretty weak reasoning. Not gonna lie.
 
mesonoxian said:
Since you asked, it's that your role was already replaced twice.

Swapping out when you have a partner you are supposed to be building rapport with would be really rough on team survival, and I think I know who the Jackdaws are. The Ravens have a QT, which makes playing with less than full attention easier, and a crow is basically a vanilla townie and can coast.

The Jackdaw has a complex role and no help, making it a logical one to feel overwhelming to multiple players.

Not a silver bullet or anything, but it is why I'd put my money there if I had to bet.

I resisted the intial temptation to vote you on those grounds because it seemed pretty low to use people needing to sub out as a game element, but given the refusal to explain your votes or communicate, I decided that was grounds enough to vote where my gut told me the magpie was, so long as I didn't bring it up as a justification.
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That's better than I was expecting honestly.
 
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