[Mafia] A Murder of Crows
- Thread starter InterstellarHobo
- Start date
- Mafia
-
- Tags
- mafia
- Location
- Hell
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Sorry to rosen and whomever else was actually trying to play. I don't think I'm going to be able to find a replacement so I guess I'll just be modkilled. @InterstellarHobo.
1KBestK departs
InterstellarHobo
Cosmic Vagrant
- Location
- No Fixed Planetary System
1KBestK has been modkilled by request
Their faction will be revealed at the end of the Night, and they remain valid theft targets until it is public knowledge they are shinyless.
Their faction will be revealed at the end of the Night, and they remain valid theft targets until it is public knowledge they are shinyless.
Ok, so the players left are:
Crows:
ItzNarcotic
Shadell
probably crows:
Tykan
OriginalName
Jackdaw:
Wiadi
Raven:
NSMS
probably raven:
TheMaskedReader
This leaves us one player short. Let's run this through for a minute.
The ravens get to play Kingmaker tomorrow no matter what happens tonight. Since our power was to coordinate our thefts, the ravens will know where one or two shinies will be. They either decide to tell Wiadi and he gets the shiny, they decide to help us lynch him or they decide to stay silent and do nothing.
Our best course of action for tonight should probably be...
We rob Wiadi twice tonight to minimize his chance to get his shiny back. The other two rob a raven each. This should let us start the day with two shinies worst case.
Every other plan tells Wiadi exactly where one shiny is.
Alright, let's speed things up. @NSMS, could you talk with your partner whether you want to play kingmaker for Wiadi or not? The game mostly hinges on your decision here.
Crows:
ItzNarcotic
Shadell
probably crows:
Tykan
OriginalName
Jackdaw:
Wiadi
Raven:
NSMS
probably raven:
TheMaskedReader
This leaves us one player short. Let's run this through for a minute.
The ravens get to play Kingmaker tomorrow no matter what happens tonight. Since our power was to coordinate our thefts, the ravens will know where one or two shinies will be. They either decide to tell Wiadi and he gets the shiny, they decide to help us lynch him or they decide to stay silent and do nothing.
Our best course of action for tonight should probably be...
We rob Wiadi twice tonight to minimize his chance to get his shiny back. The other two rob a raven each. This should let us start the day with two shinies worst case.
Every other plan tells Wiadi exactly where one shiny is.
Alright, let's speed things up. @NSMS, could you talk with your partner whether you want to play kingmaker for Wiadi or not? The game mostly hinges on your decision here.
NSMS
Probably evil, unfortunately.
- Location
- A rapidly widening tear in the fabric of reality
We'd love to work with you, but currently we're not sure how we could. Sorry.
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Can we just... end it here? Call it a draw, or a crow win, or a jackdaw win, as that's now looking pretty likely, or what have you.
I enjoyed the game a lot, it offered a ton of unique experiences, that were very atypical. THe experimental set-up threw people and the rules are really inventive and played out in interesting ways as players tried to solve them. There were balance issues here, but I don't think that's any real fault on either @Terrabrand or @InterstellarHobo 's. This is the kind of thing that illustrates how playtesting, which this mostly was, is vital, and that kind of experience was, itself, interesting. This might be less true for the magpie, who couldn't really win and had very little to do, or for the ravens, who were always disadvantaged, than either crows or jackdaws, I can't speak for any other team's experience really.
At this point, it feels like the game's just been dying a slow agonizing death where the only real ambiguity is whether crows literally bother to play since, more or less QT got voted.
I enjoyed the game a lot, it offered a ton of unique experiences, that were very atypical. THe experimental set-up threw people and the rules are really inventive and played out in interesting ways as players tried to solve them. There were balance issues here, but I don't think that's any real fault on either @Terrabrand or @InterstellarHobo 's. This is the kind of thing that illustrates how playtesting, which this mostly was, is vital, and that kind of experience was, itself, interesting. This might be less true for the magpie, who couldn't really win and had very little to do, or for the ravens, who were always disadvantaged, than either crows or jackdaws, I can't speak for any other team's experience really.
At this point, it feels like the game's just been dying a slow agonizing death where the only real ambiguity is whether crows literally bother to play since, more or less QT got voted.
Potential draw
InterstellarHobo
Cosmic Vagrant
- Location
- No Fixed Planetary System
Enthusiasm has quite obviously died, as Shadell mentions.
If anyone strongly objects to a draw, please say so... within the next ~18 hours
If anyone strongly objects to a draw, please say so... within the next ~18 hours
Game's End
InterstellarHobo
Cosmic Vagrant
- Location
- No Fixed Planetary System
The flock plots their final night of theft, intently focused on stealing more and more Shiny Things and forgetting all other concerns. The squabbling gets desperate, as the Ravens and Jackdaws attempt to deal for more time, and the Crows plot to ensure their victory.
But what's that? A new bird entering the fray? No, not a new bird- a very old bird! Grandpa Crow is not so dead after all!
He faked his death to find out which birds were loyal, and it turns out the answer is none of them! For shame! Forgetting your elder's corpse to squabble over baubles!
This news is promptly ignored, as there are more important things to worry about, like stealing Shiny Things.
But Grandpa Crow isn't done. He puffs up his chest, and announces that the SHINY THINGS ARE WORTHLESS!
Aah! This is devastating news! So much blood, so many peckings, all for nothing! All that time spent grubbing for Shiny Things, meaningless!
The flock returns to their nests, distraught at the prospect of not having something to fight over, and peace returns to the Corvid family flock.
(Except... the birds who got Shiny Things do seem awful proud about it. They wouldn't be so proud if they really were worthless, would they? Perhaps... Grandpa Crow is wrong?)
The Crows end the game with ONE Shiny Thing
The Ravens end the game with ONE Shiny Thing
The Jackdaws end the game with ONE Shiny Thing
The Magpie ends the game with NO Shiny Things
The game has been called as a DRAW.
Thank you all for playing this strange game, in particular @ComiTurtle for playing out such a disadvantaged role. I'd love to hear your feedback on what worked and what didn't, and I'll be putting up a bit of a design retrospective soon (tm).
But what's that? A new bird entering the fray? No, not a new bird- a very old bird! Grandpa Crow is not so dead after all!
He faked his death to find out which birds were loyal, and it turns out the answer is none of them! For shame! Forgetting your elder's corpse to squabble over baubles!
This news is promptly ignored, as there are more important things to worry about, like stealing Shiny Things.
But Grandpa Crow isn't done. He puffs up his chest, and announces that the SHINY THINGS ARE WORTHLESS!
Aah! This is devastating news! So much blood, so many peckings, all for nothing! All that time spent grubbing for Shiny Things, meaningless!
The flock returns to their nests, distraught at the prospect of not having something to fight over, and peace returns to the Corvid family flock.
(Except... the birds who got Shiny Things do seem awful proud about it. They wouldn't be so proud if they really were worthless, would they? Perhaps... Grandpa Crow is wrong?)
The Crows end the game with ONE Shiny Thing
The Ravens end the game with ONE Shiny Thing
The Jackdaws end the game with ONE Shiny Thing
The Magpie ends the game with NO Shiny Things
The game has been called as a DRAW.
Thank you all for playing this strange game, in particular @ComiTurtle for playing out such a disadvantaged role. I'd love to hear your feedback on what worked and what didn't, and I'll be putting up a bit of a design retrospective soon (tm).
Last edited:
NSMS
Probably evil, unfortunately.
- Location
- A rapidly widening tear in the fabric of reality
I think the main issue here was the change to Jackdaws mid-game, personally. It just shook things up too much, especially with one Jackdaw revealed and already cooperating with town. The changes to the Magpie and game length, on the other hand, were fine in my opinion.
I also think it might have been better to either not announce which faction has shinies, or at least not do it at that point in the night phase (maybe at the end instead?), and also give Jackdaws the option not to use their three-vote ability.
Overall, I liked this as a variation on the usual Werewolf format, I just think it had some teething issues.
I also think it might have been better to either not announce which faction has shinies, or at least not do it at that point in the night phase (maybe at the end instead?), and also give Jackdaws the option not to use their three-vote ability.
Overall, I liked this as a variation on the usual Werewolf format, I just think it had some teething issues.
Wiadi
Uncompromising Radical Leftist
- Location
- Something Clever
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Yeah, the Jackdaws needed something to make up for the shortened game length but the kills may not have been the best implementation of that. It also got messy because of the pair of modkills that happened right on the heels of the change.
- Pronouns
- She/Her
So, broadly, N1 was a freakish outlier to crows' advantage. Wiadi misplayed around that, and should have taken advantage of the circular theft to hide who had the shiny. The modkill really hurt ravens then. Losing Nictis cut down on a raven we just wouldn't have had time to hit, and the ravens staying 4 strong would have made a huge difference there. It also shifted the odds that any given unknown was a crow much higher.
Crows, I think, played their advantages quite well after the first night or two, negotiating and using theft coverage for information-gathering in good ways until people mostly stopped playing entirely.
I don't think Rayday outing himself was strictly a mistake. Town was willing to keep with the deal (and would have been long term, if only because killing a known raven would be a very not great use of a very powerful peck). Crows have 3 very high priority targets and would always be leaving the ravens for last. Outing one with safety wasn't a bad trade on either crows' or ravens' part.
Jackdaws were probably overpowered once they got handed 2 kills, as this throws the game a lot more toward jackdaw's time earlier. Jackdaws were disadvantaged here, both due to a very painful N1 and mishandling the result. I wouldn't leave them the kills as that made jackdaws a must eliminate ASAP. Handing ravens the kills would probably work better, as this would still threaten revealed crows (good) and give the ravens a better tool to play with (good).
OTOH, the magpie is an issue. The early win isn't helpful ultimately. It mostly encourages the magpie to misplay and others to be terrified of the magpie; so, it ends up as a trap for the magpie, either a bad player going aggressive and getting punished or a good player a la Comi suffering a manhunt when everyone else overreacts. Making the magpie an instant win would vastly amplify the threat and focus more attention on the magpie. Meanwhile, a magpie instant N2 win would be very unsatisfying for everyone else. The transport powers are good, but this mostly serves to help ravens and jackdaws, in that ravens and jackdaws can now claim magpie as an excuse, emphasizing deduction more.
There are other issues we didn't see. Non-town can basically make any information gathering moot in the early nights by simply not stealing and letting crows reveal the locations of the shinies. Shinies will concentrate on jackdaws with mispecks (a solid disadvantage that's good in play and becomes a power late-game), which'd basically eliminate a lot of the mechanical play that distinguishes the set-up from other things.
Moving the magpie in the pecking order, or simply having the magpie steal once first, then again very last would be interesting, in that it adds counterplay for the jackdaw, and shifts the theft order from a line to a circle, in that every faction could both steal and be robbed at night.
Crows, I think, played their advantages quite well after the first night or two, negotiating and using theft coverage for information-gathering in good ways until people mostly stopped playing entirely.
I don't think Rayday outing himself was strictly a mistake. Town was willing to keep with the deal (and would have been long term, if only because killing a known raven would be a very not great use of a very powerful peck). Crows have 3 very high priority targets and would always be leaving the ravens for last. Outing one with safety wasn't a bad trade on either crows' or ravens' part.
Jackdaws were probably overpowered once they got handed 2 kills, as this throws the game a lot more toward jackdaw's time earlier. Jackdaws were disadvantaged here, both due to a very painful N1 and mishandling the result. I wouldn't leave them the kills as that made jackdaws a must eliminate ASAP. Handing ravens the kills would probably work better, as this would still threaten revealed crows (good) and give the ravens a better tool to play with (good).
OTOH, the magpie is an issue. The early win isn't helpful ultimately. It mostly encourages the magpie to misplay and others to be terrified of the magpie; so, it ends up as a trap for the magpie, either a bad player going aggressive and getting punished or a good player a la Comi suffering a manhunt when everyone else overreacts. Making the magpie an instant win would vastly amplify the threat and focus more attention on the magpie. Meanwhile, a magpie instant N2 win would be very unsatisfying for everyone else. The transport powers are good, but this mostly serves to help ravens and jackdaws, in that ravens and jackdaws can now claim magpie as an excuse, emphasizing deduction more.
There are other issues we didn't see. Non-town can basically make any information gathering moot in the early nights by simply not stealing and letting crows reveal the locations of the shinies. Shinies will concentrate on jackdaws with mispecks (a solid disadvantage that's good in play and becomes a power late-game), which'd basically eliminate a lot of the mechanical play that distinguishes the set-up from other things.
Moving the magpie in the pecking order, or simply having the magpie steal once first, then again very last would be interesting, in that it adds counterplay for the jackdaw, and shifts the theft order from a line to a circle, in that every faction could both steal and be robbed at night.
- Location
- The UK
Would people have stopped voting for me if I had revealed I had a shiny?
- Location
- Phoenix, Arizona
- Pronouns
- She/Her
GG, everyone! I was a Raven, yeah.
NSMS
Probably evil, unfortunately.
- Location
- A rapidly widening tear in the fabric of reality
Probably not; at that point, it would have seemed more like a desperate lie to avoid being voted for. Or at least, that's the perception that could have been easily pushed by the Raven or Jackdaws.
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Yes. Lying about having a shiny opens you up to counterclaims, and we'd know how many crows had shinies after it was voted.
E.g., we'd see at EoD that crows had 1 shiny or 0 or 2. If 2 other people claim to be crows who had had shinies during D1, we'd have been able to prove one of you was lying. Conversely, we could have cleared you if no one had claimed.
- Location
- Academy City
- Pronouns
- They
Depends on when you claimed it. If soon enough, yeah, last minute probably no.