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It's not wrong to make Friends in the Dungeon (Danmachi / Sanctioned [Worm])

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Daimah said:
Also, I wonder what QA will do about Soma when he and his familia come to her attention. After all he isn't malicious like Ishtar, he's just negligent. Like a parent letting his kids raise hell as long as they don't interrupt his work.
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IIRC doesn't he get a lot better after the familia battle thing that ends up with Lili being allowed to jump to Hestia Familia? (I always forget the name of it)

Runek said:
Not familiar with Danmachi myself, but that should depend on what manner of idiocy he might be up to and if it affects her? Because as she just repeated in this chapter, these aren't people to her and from what she has said shards aren't exactly the most involved parents when it comes to child rearing. Taylor on the other hand is another question. As she has shown here she takes badly to people being morally offensive to her her.
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Soma is obsessed with The Perfect Booze and basically gouges his Familia members so that he can pay for his addiction.

You have to BUY your right to get your Falina upgraded, AKA you have to pay to level up, much less the 'class up' which is a Danmachi level.

Edit: I might be misremembering that, I forget if it was "You have to pay X amount" or "Only the top X bidders will get Falina updates"
 
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Runek said:
Not familiar with Danmachi myself, but that should depend on what manner of idiocy he might be up to and if it affects her? Because as she just repeated in this chapter, these aren't people to her and from what she has said shards aren't exactly the most involved parents when it comes to child rearing. Taylor on the other hand is another question. As she has shown here she takes badly to people being morally offensive to her her.
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Soma himself isn't the issue. It's his Familia who are the assholes. Basically Soma's thing is that he, well, he makes soma. (Exactly What It Says On The Tin.)

For those who don't know, soma is the wine of the gods. For mere mortals, even a mediocre knockoff is hopelessly addictive because it's just that damned good. Get a taste of the real thing, and you'd be willing to sell both of your kidneys at the same time just to get another taste.

Soma himself doesn't really pay attention to anything but his hobby. And therein lies the rub.
 
So... if the other gods do realize it was QAylor, will they attack her/banish her to try to keep her away, blame Hestia for this/accuse her of using her Arcana for her child, or say she broke a law by attacking another god, Or accuse QAylor of being a god and try to lock her powers away like the other gods? Or... just ignore it and move on?

Also, how does being able to cast that kind of effect on an opposing god go with either her concept or QA's? Is she just not limited in that way? I can understand making their reactions worse (due to her ability to control insects/life in canon, a variant similar to Alec's ability), but doesn't this current effect seem a little off unless Dreamer is actively causing the effects on everyone as they occur?

Also... Plot! That is visible to people outside of Ais, her tagalong, and the hestia family! That's another checkmark down... So wonder about some others?

A) when/if we will actually see the Friends do something combat related, instead of just hearing what they can do.
B) Go into the dungeon to at least floor 5.
C) Have her directly interact with at least 2 other gods. Bonus if Hestia has to directly deal with an additional 2 gods.
D) New friend type created (that does something unique/ability-wise on screen).m Bonus if it is seen by non-family/Hestia-familia members.
E) Plot-things happen that were canonically revealed after the end of season 2 of canon (which is where I'm up to). Alternatively, world building/new plot things that might not have come up in canon due to differing circumstances.
F) The reveal that there really IS a scholar based society with advanced teleportation magic on the other side of the world that QA and Taylor just happening to be ignorant of.

Thanks for the chapter Alivaril!
 
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gagaking said:
Also, how does being able to cast that kind of effect on an opposing god go with either her concept or QA's? Is she just not limited in that way?
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Taylor's Concept is Dream, thus she has the power of Dream Logic.

Ishtar's Falina doesn't fit the lens of the Dream she wants, so she uses Dream Logic to rewrite reality. (For Taylor "I reject your reality and substitute my own" isn't a threat, it's a promise)
 
I look forward to when dreamer and QA finally get separate avatars and kick all the ass together.

Edit: side note, what's to stop Taylor as Dreamer take on the title of princess?
 
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Alivaril said:
"I will go home, raise a swarm, raze this city to the ground, and end the lives of its gods so their arrogant idiocy cannot possibly spread any further," Queen Administrator declared calmly. "We can kill the Dungeon ourselves if we have to. We do not need this arrogant filth getting in the way."

Alexander stared at the irate monarch with dawning horror. He'd expected an outburst and maybe a refusal to help with the Stolen Core situation, but nothing like this. He wasn't even sure he hadn't made things worse.

Oh, gods. This is exactly why you don't provoke foreign royalty!

Alexander opened his mouth to try calming the monarch down only to have an incredibly disappointed voice manage that for him.

"Queen Administrator! You are not going to invade Orario over this!" Lady Hestia sternly said, her hands planted on her hips.
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Shouldn't Hestia's truth sense tell her if QA meant it or not?
 
gagaking said:
Also, how does being able to cast that kind of effect on an opposing god go with either her concept or QA's? Is she just not limited in that way? I can understand making their reactions worse (due to her ability to control insects/life in canon, a variant similar to Alec's ability), but doesn't this current effect seem a little off unless Dreamer is actively causing the effects on everyone as they occur?
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Dreamer has been studying the physics of this new world as a proper Shard should. As a result of her experiments with rather large numbers of Friend prototypes (simulated and in Shard dimension), she's gained a significant amount of capacity for Shard Fuckery over the magic of the world. This includes modification of Falna.

It's not directly in keeping with her Concept as Dreamer to do this, excepting that Taylor's understanding of a Dream is as a narrative. Hence all the poetry going on: she's telling stories and apparently ultimately that's what Falna is: the magical/spiritual embodiment of a person's personal story.

It's also worth noting that due to their circumstances, QA and Taylor/Dreamer don't have the usual Shard limiters. So this is just pure unrestrained Fuckery.
 
And they could have avoided this by stating that Scion and Eden were of Imperial Rank with kings and queens below them.

-_-'
 
Valdimarian said:
Soma is obsessed with The Perfect Booze and basically gouges his Familia members so that he can pay for his addiction.

You have to BUY your right to get your Falina upgraded, AKA you have to pay to level up, much less the 'class up' which is a Danmachi level.

Edit: I might be misremembering that, I forget if it was "You have to pay X amount" or "Only the top X bidders will get Falina updates
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I think it was a fixed amount but also the one who brings more money gets a glass of Soma wine.

Runek said:
Not familiar with Danmachi myself, but that should depend on what manner of idiocy he might be up to and if it affects her? Because as she just repeated in this chapter, these aren't people to her and from what she has said shards aren't exactly the most involved parents when it comes to child rearing. Taylor on the other hand is another question. As she has shown here she takes badly to people being morally offensive to her her.
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Now that I think about it Soma familia operates much like the Merchants back in Brockton Bay. The members get addicted to the wine and will do anything they can to get more. Including ambushing other adventurers inside the dungeon if they think they can get away with it.
 
Arthur Hansen said:
And they could have avoided this by stating that Scion and Eden were of Imperial Rank with kings and queens below them.

-_-'
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By the way it's stated in the Guildsman's POV, there's literally nothing QA could have said that would have avoided it. This was literally just Ishtar being a megabitch and fucking with Hestia's precious attention-stealing child because Ishtar couldn't have said child for herself, and thus throwing her weight around to demand it be done.
 
Arthur Hansen said:
And they could have avoided this by stating that Scion and Eden were of Imperial Rank with kings and queens below them.
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Nah, Ishtar pretty much shot any compromise out of the sky.
Alivaril said:
After the goddess Ishtar had raised the 'translation error' at an exceedingly lavish party and convinced the attending gods to support her petition to 'correct' Queen Administrator's title, it was out of the Guild's hands.
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Logos01 said:
This was literally just Ishtar being a megabitch and fucking with Hestia's precious attention-stealing child because Ishtar couldn't have said child for herself, and thus throwing her weight around to demand it be done.
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Basically a power move since Hestia is powerless in influence it.

Daimah said:
Now that I think about it Soma familia operates much like the Merchants back in Brockton Bay. The members get addicted to the wine and will do anything they can to get more. Including ambushing other adventurers inside the dungeon if they think they can get away with it.
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Also rather low on the totem pole considering none of members are past level 2.
 
Valdimarian said:
Taylor's Concept is Dream, thus she has the power of Dream Logic.

Ishtar's Falina doesn't fit the lens of the Dream she wants, so she uses Dream Logic to rewrite reality. (For Taylor "I reject your reality and substitute my own" isn't a threat, it's a promise)
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Yeah... Dreams are one of the scarier concepts to play around with when you start looking at conceptual schenanigans...

It's also a nice duality to QA who Administers Reality.
 
Pyrotech51 said:
Yeah... Dreams are one of the scarier concepts to play around with when you start looking at conceptual schenanigans...
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I have three words.

"World as Myth."

tvtropes.org

The World as Myth - TV Tropes

Robert A. Heinlein's The Number of the Beast introduces the concept of the "World as Myth" which supposes that all fictional universes are equally real and, moreover, are accessible to one another via interdimensional travel. The act of …
tvtropes.org tvtropes.org
 
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Alivaril said:
Alexander watched a tear trail down Queen Administrator's face
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Considering that the only emotion Queen Administrator was deliberately showing is rage, those tears were entirely genuine.

... QA needs more hugs, and thankfully Hestia understands that.


Alivaril said:
your people don't have princesses?"

Queen Administrator nodded unhappily. The closest translation was an insult used to say that one Monarch wasn't actually as good as the others. That they were lesser and couldn't ever be more since they'd already achieved Monarchy.
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Queen Administrator would need to tolerate the nickname as best she could without drastic action or discouraging others from using it.
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I'll get to call us a magical space princess
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Does Dreamer even realize that what she's doing to QA is awfully similar to both Shard behaviour (letting your partner suffer for the sake of your agenda) and the trio's bullying? After all, she demands that QA should tolerate bullying and even wants to deliberately encourage that QA is called a 'magical space princess', despite the fact that it essentially translates to "you're a failure of a Shard who will never be a true monarch and will never amount to anything".
 
nah Taylor proposed to QA a solution to the problem and gave QA time to consider it and make any alterations or counter proposals, and waited for QA to agree to it before putting that plan into action.

Tbh the soma familia is irrelevant atm, they're not even on Taylor's radar yet. She hasn't interacted with any of them and unless one of them tries to mug/murder her in the dungeon she might not at all for a while. Certainly not enough to learn about the problems the God's negligence is causing.
 
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gagaking said:
Also, how does being able to cast that kind of effect on an opposing god go with either her concept or QA's? Is she just not limited in that way? I can understand making their reactions worse (due to her ability to control insects/life in canon, a variant similar to Alec's ability), but doesn't this current effect seem a little off unless Dreamer is actively causing the effects on everyone as they occur?
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As I see it, the concepts of shards are determined by what they do, not vice versa like gods.
 
curiosity said:
As I see it, the concepts of shards are determined by what they do, not vice versa like gods.
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In this, their limits are really what they can plausibly excuse as a justified application. Creatively interpreting your Concept to include new interests is just part of being a shard.

Nachtigall said:
Does Dreamer even realize that what she's doing to QA is awfully similar to both Shard behaviour (letting your partner suffer for the sake of your agenda) and the trio's bullying? After all, she demands that QA should tolerate bullying and even wants to deliberately encourage that QA is called a 'magical space princess', despite the fact that it essentially translates to "you're a failure of a Shard who will never be a true monarch and will never amount to anything".
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The bullying was accidental. The shard similarities were not. Her primary goal was, and usually has been, to try to teach Queen Administrator a valuable lesson about how conflict-inducement, and being a host in general, kinda sucks; the "magical space princess" was a perceived consolation prize, not the goal. She didn't expect QA to both completely miss the intended lesson and value encouraging Host's learning process over QA's own pride; the princess offer was supposed to be refused. Guilt is slowly resulting, but Dreamer's meandering thoughts enforce slow pacing.
 
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I dont want and hate to be that guy... But im utterly massively dissapointed and turn off on this fic, it just reek fix-fic. Or that kind of fic where fanfic author make a particular character make a mistake or slight against the MC so they can screw that particular character. Or like those author who insert their own political view from real life on fanfic. It feels no longer entertaining, its petty, its ego stroking, its pathetic. Its damn uncomfortable and turn off.

Im doing this because Ishtar came out of nowhere. And the dreaming taylor feel like a deus ex machina or a powerwank character.

I think I'll just just skim Ishtar arc, the comedy is just too great to unwatch. damn i hate complaining like this, its uncomfortable, I feel like a demanding douche, im not even paying for this free work.
 
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