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It's not wrong to make Friends in the Dungeon (Danmachi / Sanctioned [Worm])

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Valmond said:
Children gain knowledge outside their education (i blame the media, and parents :V ), which often needs to be gotten rid of.
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I don't recall my education 'getting rid of' things I learned outside of it. Pointing out how some aspects of those things were untrue perhaps, but not actual brainwashing.

Then again I hear Texas recently passed or is trying to pass a bill that prevents teachers from teaching things like the Ku Klux Klan being morally wrong, and anything at all to do with Martin Luther King, so I'll accept that I could be off-base on this point regarding American education at the very least.
 
Neruz said:
I don't recall my education 'getting rid of' things I learned outside of it. Pointing out how some aspects of those things were untrue perhaps, but not actual brainwashing.

Then again I hear Texas recently passed or is trying to pass a bill that prevents teachers from teaching things like the Ku Klux Klan being morally wrong, and anything at all to do with Martin Luther King, so I'll accept that I could be off-base on this point regarding American education at the very least.
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In the you-can't-make-up-this-stuff department, here's what the Republican Party of Texas wrote into its 2012 platform as part of the section on education:

Knowledge-Based Education – We oppose the teaching of Higher Order Thinking Skills (HOTS) (values clarification), critical thinking skills and similar programs that are simply a relabeling of Outcome-Based Education (OBE) (mastery learning) which focus on behavior modification and have the purpose of challenging the student's fixed beliefs and undermining parental authority.

Yes they are against teaching critical thinking.
 
Neruz said:
I don't recall my education 'getting rid of' things I learned outside of it. Pointing out how some aspects of those things were untrue perhaps, but not actual brainwashing.

Then again I hear Texas recently passed or is trying to pass a bill that prevents teachers from teaching things like the Ku Klux Klan being morally wrong, and anything at all to do with Martin Luther King, so I'll accept that I could be off-base on this point regarding American education at the very least.
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:thonk:
Yes, nothing gotten rid of, no sirree. :V
 
Valmond said:
:thonk:
Yes, nothing gotten rid of, no sirree. :V
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I mean, logically proving that something is in fact legitimately incorrect doesn't seem like 'brainwashing' to me, especially given that at least one such instance was during a formal debate with the teacher in philosophy class.

Indoctrination, sure, but 'brainwashing' at the very least implies a much more invasive methodology, so to speak.
 
Valmond said:
Dunno.
It is hovewer an opinion i actually hold.
We, as a society, brainwash all the kids, it's called raising them properly (and/or giving an education).
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It's an opinion I held as a child. I was an extremely intelligent and well read child, hell reading was the only thing that would keep me quiet for more than 5 seconds. I'd already read Moby Dick, Gulliver's Travels, A Clockwork Orange, Something of Value, Fahrenheit 451, and 1984 by the time I turned 10. Those books taught me to question everything others tried to teach me. The last 4 specifically taught me to question what society thinks is normal, while the first 2 taught me to question what I think is normal.
All in all, I wound up mostly self-raised.
 
Valmond said:
Dunno.
It is hovewer an opinion i actually hold.
We, as a society, brainwash all the kids, it's called raising them properly (and/or giving an education).
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That's not what brainwashing is.

Brainwashing isn't informative; it's disinformative. It's designed to prevent the subject from being able to think critically. Brainwashing is sabotaging the human mind's ability to learn and be self-aware, making them unable to act rationally or question what they were brainwashed to believe.

As an example: a properly raised kid will be able to fairly consider criticism of their beliefs, and even change their minds depending on what they conclude after such self-reflection. A brainwashed person will not change their minds even if you throw blatant evidence against their beliefs right in front of their face, every day, forever. Not only will they probably never admit that their beliefs are wrong, they will probably perform whatever insane mental gymnastics required to justify their beliefs to themselves (in the face of all evidence), even if that justification makes no sense to anyone but themselves (and only if they don't think about it too hard).
 
Tzardok said:
Nemty... rare is the Egyptian god that I never ever heard before of.

Incidentally, are there Aztec gods in Danmachi?
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None in Canon. Frankly speaking, I would love it if Alivaril fixed that.
TypoNinja said:
That sounds like a Darwin Award candidate story.

That's like anti-safety, there's a OSHA checklist somewhere of things that should never be done, and somebody went down it in order to get to that situation.
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Wouldn't surprise me if it was. And anyone can buy a powersaw. Well, maybe not children, I imagine the cashier would probably stop them and ask some pointed questions. But you get my point. You can have one set up in your home. And people will do really dumb shit when they're working in their garage/personal workshop. Professionals would probably be wearing a face mask, since sawdust is a known carcinogen. Honestly, a lot of particulates are, if they're anything that can linger in the lungs for a long period of time. But never underestimate the stupidity of amateurs.

Honestly, though, the scariest ignition source for dust explosions is probably electrostatic discharge. Mostly because so many things can build up a static charge. Notably, a poorly installed conveyor belt is indistinguishable in effect from a Van de Graff generator.
curiosity said:
Just anything that burns exothermally will make a dust explosion. And magnesium is notorious for its flammability. Doesn't need anything special to figure this stuff out.
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True. But uh...magnesium powder explosions have been tested experimentally, practically, and accidentally, unfortunately.
curiosity said:
Flour can also cause dust explosion (although it's harder to set on fire). So don't smoke in the kitchen either. Just don't smoke, period.
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Corn starch and sugar, too. And also enough pollen, apparently. I don't think the density threshold required is anywhere low near enough to happen accidentally, outside of a maybe greenhouse-

*pauses, uses Google.*

Um. Or if you knock down a pine tree in the middle of pollen season, and there's a source of ignition. Apparently. And they got it on video, no less. I'd link, but I'd need to spoiler it, I'm lazy, and you have Google. Edit: Wait, no, that's just the tree releasing pollen. Lame. Still, I imagine that would do the trick if you had an ignition source.
 
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SaltyWaffles said:
That's not what brainwashing is.

Brainwashing isn't informative; it's disinformative. It's designed to prevent the subject from being able to think critically. Brainwashing is sabotaging the human mind's ability to learn and be self-aware, making them unable to act rationally or question what they were brainwashed to believe.

As an example: a properly raised kid will be able to fairly consider criticism of their beliefs, and even change their minds depending on what they conclude after such self-reflection. A brainwashed person will not change their minds even if you throw blatant evidence against their beliefs right in front of their face, every day, forever. Not only will they probably never admit that their beliefs are wrong, they will probably perform whatever insane mental gymnastics required to justify their beliefs to themselves (in the face of all evidence), even if that justification makes no sense to anyone but themselves (and only if they don't think about it too hard).
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Relevant article showing both sides of the "Education is brainwashing" issue simultaneously.
 
Y'know... I was actually just about to pop back in to ask how you think the chapter is going, but then I see you've written an omake/extra/side story piece.

Oh, and this isn't about my previous post (I buggered off after my social anxiety kicked in, and thus haven't even read the follow ups), Ding wrote a Worm and Hyperdimension Neptunia series crossover, as well as a Worm and Ar Tonelico cross, though I'll be focusing on the Hyperdimension portion... I'm actually wondering if the Goddesses of that game series would be able to form a Familia if they ever ended up visiting the DanMachi universe. Or if they'd have to join a Familia instead. Hopefully my thoughts will inspire someone to write a Hyperdimension and DanMachi crossover. There seriously aren't enough Hyperdimension fics on any of the 3 main forums (QQ, SV, SB, them basically). There's like... 7 or 8 threads related to Hyperdimension on each site, at most. Most of them aren't crossovers, though QQ has a semi crossover, where there's an SI as a Tome Fairy in ZnT/FoZ or NieR: Automata. It was a Jumpchain gone wrong, sort of. Interesting stories, done by Jack of Olives. I highly recommend looking them up, since I'm pretty sure linking to QQ isn't allowed. Just look up Jack of Olives, and rifle through their threads/stories. Anyways, the only place that has any decent amount of either Hyperdimension or DanMachi crosses is FFN, really. Or as best I can tell, anyways.

I'm definitely looking forward to an actual chapter of this now, Alivaril. Hope to see more shenanigans soon.
 
Child rearing practises continue to be off-topic unless they refer to the actions or ubringing or beliefs of characters or other entities relevant to the story.

I wonder what the upper limit is on a Friend's imprinted mental ability to develop and manufacture technology is. Maybe she could make a ForgeFriend that could be taken down into the dungeon in order to maintain, enhance, and produce equipment without ending the expedition. Could she make processing Friends to convert found organic matter into more palatable forms and harvest valuable materials without severing the core until the last moment?
 
Aunty Shi Ping said:
I wonder what the upper limit is on a Friend's imprinted mental ability to develop and manufacture technology is.
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Ridiculously high, I'd assume. I'd be astonished if shardtech couldn't put all of the internet in a Friend the size of a human, much less all of that being dedicated to tech production. Add to that versatile manipulators, biological blowtorches and other tools, super-sensors (for telling what you're doing) and the ability to synthesize arbitrary chemicals from raw materials through shard-tier biotech and you can put a top-tier tinker workshop into a single Friend, including tinker-tier tech understanding.
For magic stuff, the upper limit would be the shard's understanding of magic item creation (or, perhaps, raw stats - I can grok top-tier materials needing super-strength to work with at all, perhaps even to an extent that would be unachievable without external shard support for non-adventurers (but Friends here are also magic, so maybe not))
 
Aunty Shi Ping said:
Child rearing practises continue to be off-topic unless they refer to the actions or ubringing or beliefs of characters or other entities relevant to the story.

I wonder what the upper limit is on a Friend's imprinted mental ability to develop and manufacture technology is. Maybe she could make a ForgeFriend that could be taken down into the dungeon in order to maintain, enhance, and produce equipment without ending the expedition. Could she make processing Friends to convert found organic matter into more palatable forms and harvest valuable materials without severing the core until the last moment?
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Do severed monster parts actually survive the monster's death, canonically? Because it's entirely possible that removing the magic stone causes all of the monster, regardless of attachment to the main body, to disintegrate, barring Drop Items. It's also possible that being severed causes them to turn into ash over time. If you could harvest useful materials from living monsters, I'd imagine someone would have started farming them. We know people catch and imprison monsters, and can do so for extended periods of time, even if they aren't Tamers. I guess the another explanation would be that harvested materials aren't the same as Drop Items, and just can't be worked. Which might still make them viable for conversion to food. But I really doubt it's that simple.

Also, you'd probably need an Pharmacy FriendTM​ and possibly a Moisture Gathering FriendTM​, since water and potions are likely also limiting factors in expedition length.
 
TypoNinja said:
Well, she also put a fair bit of effort into perfecting the whole "I'm a harmless kid" act, so it was bound to fool people who weren't paying too much attention.
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Or they got their info from someone with an axe to grind, directly or through rumor. Wouldn't surprise me if people with malicious intent are exaggerating Lili's innocence and ignoring any less savory rumors, just to paint Hestia Familia in a worse light. Especially if this blooper happened before the public shouting match, because Soma Familia wouldn't want their dirty laundry aired.
 
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