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Into that Vast and Unrelenting Darkness (40K Xeno Civilization Quest)
- Thread starter The Bird
- Start date
- Mature Sci-Fi Fantasy
ReaperofInterest
Herald of Disaster
Ok, here's the post with a tally I made. It took a little to figure out where to end the vote due to the lightning round thing, but as best I can figure, we chose No this time.
The Froggy Ninja
The Blade Will Never Die
How is (effectively) "fuck you, I don't trust you, put your money where your mouth is or I'll take matters into my own hands" not harsher language and an ultimatum. It wasn't an overly specific one but we also probably should have considered that "10 turns" is 200 years. Also, he stole a negligible amount of a material we commonly use in hopes of freeing his people from slavery. America has stolen more from its allies for less.
Because it is 'effectively'. There is a reason why states go though the whole rigamarole of diplomatic messages, expressing concern, disapproval, anger etc... That reason is that unlike when Jim is talking to Larry in plain language your message has to get though who knows how many messengers to get to the decision makers and that is not even taking into account that the Directorate is a democracy and the public does not as a general rule pay as much attention to external matters as internal ones.
Ultimatums are clearer than any amount of 'fuck yous' because it is harder to lose track of numbers when playing interstellar telephone. Out of character if we had gotten a message from Vlaahk saying: 'do something within the next 30 years or it will irreparably damage my trust' odds are good we would have done something, even though that is the most toothless sort of ultimatum it is still better than 'I'll take matters into my own hands'. We do not know what he is capable of, we do not know what resources he has amounted, it could have meant anything hence it meant nothing.
ReaperofInterest
Herald of Disaster
Vote's already over, but good news, what you voted for won.
[X] No.
Cross your fingers
Cross your fingers
Vote is closed no matter how complex shapes I weave my fingers in.
Edit:
Instructions unclear, I broke my fingers.
Last edited:
Obviously, you're not weaving hard enough.
The Froggy Ninja
The Blade Will Never Die
It meant we left a known mentally unstable and traumatized superintelligence to his own devices instead of providing the help we promised him for two centuries. He shouldn't have needed to give us an ultimatum and when he acted it was to steal a literally negligible amount of one of our basic resources. That level of industrial espionage is nothing even between allies much less people we promised to help and then didn't.
No one is denying that we didn't wrong the Autonites.
What we are saying is that Vhlaak has also wronged us, and we aren't going to do anything about it. You can see how if you look at that from the POV of a state it makes little sense.
Honestly, at this point I just want to get CPUmoon done with so we can finally make a proper deal with an actual polity, since despite how supposedly important the three ships are, Bird refuses to allow us to make proper treaties with them.
Neither did the Khimer, and we didn't have issues dealing with them. Because they got treated like a proper diplomatic contact and got a treaty with proper timetables and well-defined duties and obligations.
The khimer still controled their homeworld but had moved underground and had several bases vs the Autonites who are 3 ship AI's, once we liberate the moon there be enough of them a reputation meter makes sense vs a list of the mood of the three AI's.
ReaperofInterest
Herald of Disaster
I agree that starting the Void Ocean project next turn would be nice, as would getting the Trainmaster's Temple. But we shouldn't forget that we have other things to deal with, like the Logic Virus Cage, or the Eldar Psy-Ritual tutelage. Maybe we'll be lucky and the auction will help take some of the burdens off our shoulders.
this is why I am really really really hoping the gse happens after the cpu moon turn cause as u said there really not much room to sneak in it esp considridng the hazard rolls likely resulting in discount
- Location
- Australia
Please, let us beg that we vannot disconnect him for the same reason that we attempt parley with her; that he has been mistreated by organics, including even ourselves through unintentional neglect, and so to breach his trust once more would be undermining what undeserved faith he has given us to help save the CPUmoon, the Autonites, and perhaps even the Watchmakers (if any truly remain), thus destroying what fragile trust is left between us. If nothing else, appeal through reasoning that left out of the conversion who knows what he might do and the damage/havoc he could reap should he assume we are all going to turn on him (obviously afterwards profusely and profoundly apologise for portraying him in such a way but to one that already think him "the murderer" if nothing else convinces how else can we keep her on the line and at the negotiating table).
I worry that "No" is the wrong thing to say when she's just starting to open up to us, especially with such little time left (although I genuinely worry about also confirming his worse fears and what he might do in contingency if he thinks there an unacceptable risk of us being trick or letting her escape
pe as an enemy, but I desperately hope and pray to be proven wrong.
I worry that "No" is the wrong thing to say when she's just starting to open up to us, especially with such little time left (although I genuinely worry about also confirming his worse fears and what he might do in contingency if he thinks there an unacceptable risk of us being trick or letting her escape
pe as an enemy, but I desperately hope and pray to be proven wrong.
- Location
- Peterborough, NH, USA
Okay, since some people really, really want to combo the Trainmaster and Cores, this is assuming aceraptor's plan goes off for CPUMoon, then my Allies plan, and then this one.
Plan: Trains and Cores.
EXP: 120.
Sandscorn Skyhook 0/25->25/25. +2 Khimer Rep.
Sacred Groves 0/20->20/20. +1 WRP.
Void-Train Orbital Transit Network 0/15->15/15.
More Herdtemples 0/50->50/50. +1 WRP.
Khimer project, paying off the WRP of the Turn(and the Groves and Herdtemples should buff spiritual development in general anyway), and VOTN to combo with Trainmaster
CUL: 93.
Orbital Caravan Network 0/15->15/15.
Orbital Pioneer Factory Ships 0/25->25/25.
Orbital Pioneer Mega-Power Ships 0/20->20/20.
Wonderpark Space Docks 9/15->15/15.
Song of the Sea 0/25->25/25. -1 WRP.
Orbital stuff should synergize with the train, especially with the VOTN. 3 Orbitals and Wonderpark ought to cause an explosion in townships by itself. I've modified Allies a little to have the few points leftover from the completed projects spent on Space Docks(hence it being 9 instead of 6, with something similar being true of Warproad below) so Song of the Sea will complete, and it's a sea vita buff, which the Cores count for.
FTH: 87.
Temple to the Trainmaster 0/25->25/25.
Aqua-Arks 0/25->12/25.
Mass Aqua Deployment 0/25->25/25. -1 WRP.
Storm-Cores 0/25->25/25.
Temple for the Trainmaster himself, of course, and the Mass Aqua develops their ritual, while Storm Cores upgrades the Cores so they develop faster. Progress on Aqua-Arks for far-orbit ocean-ing.
ACD: 79.
Warproad Navigator 4/50->18/50.
Totem Power Grid 0/15->15/15. -1 NK.
TotemSerum 0/25->25/25.
Sandscorn Desert-Biosphere Hybridization Program 0/25->25/25. -1 BIO.
Bird said that Totem upgrades would help with the Express buffing the Cores, so two buffs for them, the Khimer project, and the remainder goes into progress towards Warproad, which should do a lot to take care of the civilian shipping issue.
-[] Resource Management
--[] Artifacts: 1
--[] Biodata: 4 -> 3.
--[] Living Metal: 1
--[] Network: 1
--[] Nuclear Material: 2 -> 1.
--[] Warp: 0
Of course, it's entirely possible the GSE drops either this Turn or the CPUMoon turn and buffs EXP, and maybe drops the Void-Train cost, which might be enough for an Autonite project in EXP, otherwise I'm going to have hope for a cheaper +Warp project or getting stupendously lucky with the current Event to get an extra. I'd have gone for more NekroTek stuff, but that plan's a lot more Warp-expensive, and Cores eat up a lot of the FTH for that already, so Orbital stuff just makes more sense.
Plan: Trains and Cores.
EXP: 120.
Sandscorn Skyhook 0/25->25/25. +2 Khimer Rep.
Sacred Groves 0/20->20/20. +1 WRP.
Void-Train Orbital Transit Network 0/15->15/15.
More Herdtemples 0/50->50/50. +1 WRP.
Khimer project, paying off the WRP of the Turn(and the Groves and Herdtemples should buff spiritual development in general anyway), and VOTN to combo with Trainmaster
CUL: 93.
Orbital Caravan Network 0/15->15/15.
Orbital Pioneer Factory Ships 0/25->25/25.
Orbital Pioneer Mega-Power Ships 0/20->20/20.
Wonderpark Space Docks 9/15->15/15.
Song of the Sea 0/25->25/25. -1 WRP.
Orbital stuff should synergize with the train, especially with the VOTN. 3 Orbitals and Wonderpark ought to cause an explosion in townships by itself. I've modified Allies a little to have the few points leftover from the completed projects spent on Space Docks(hence it being 9 instead of 6, with something similar being true of Warproad below) so Song of the Sea will complete, and it's a sea vita buff, which the Cores count for.
FTH: 87.
Temple to the Trainmaster 0/25->25/25.
Aqua-Arks 0/25->12/25.
Mass Aqua Deployment 0/25->25/25. -1 WRP.
Storm-Cores 0/25->25/25.
Temple for the Trainmaster himself, of course, and the Mass Aqua develops their ritual, while Storm Cores upgrades the Cores so they develop faster. Progress on Aqua-Arks for far-orbit ocean-ing.
ACD: 79.
Warproad Navigator 4/50->18/50.
Totem Power Grid 0/15->15/15. -1 NK.
TotemSerum 0/25->25/25.
Sandscorn Desert-Biosphere Hybridization Program 0/25->25/25. -1 BIO.
Bird said that Totem upgrades would help with the Express buffing the Cores, so two buffs for them, the Khimer project, and the remainder goes into progress towards Warproad, which should do a lot to take care of the civilian shipping issue.
-[] Resource Management
--[] Artifacts: 1
--[] Biodata: 4 -> 3.
--[] Living Metal: 1
--[] Network: 1
--[] Nuclear Material: 2 -> 1.
--[] Warp: 0
Of course, it's entirely possible the GSE drops either this Turn or the CPUMoon turn and buffs EXP, and maybe drops the Void-Train cost, which might be enough for an Autonite project in EXP, otherwise I'm going to have hope for a cheaper +Warp project or getting stupendously lucky with the current Event to get an extra. I'd have gone for more NekroTek stuff, but that plan's a lot more Warp-expensive, and Cores eat up a lot of the FTH for that already, so Orbital stuff just makes more sense.
Great Space Express won in the auction.
What does 'shouldn't' mean here? Why are you making a moral case against what I described as limitations of the systems we are dealing with? Yes I guess it would be a better world if all information was transferred with perfect transparency and people in a democratic state cared about foreign policy as domestic in times of peace, that is not how things work though, take it up with the gods, or really don't they are evil.
Second no, stealing an entire technology which as far as we know only the Necrons have out in the universe is not minor.
Third you are playing a bit of a rhetorical trick here. Vhlaak was both justified in stealing our tech because we are not really allies due to us not helping... and we must urgently help him now. I guess that means he will be scrubbing his memory of all living mental related information or paying us in some other manner once we do save the CPU Moon right?
The Froggy Ninja
The Blade Will Never Die
He stole a sample of a material and worked out some basic uses of it. We don't even have a proper understanding on necrodermis's more advanced properties and neither does he. Whether other species have that makes no difference to the fact that we didn't actually lose any resources and it wasn't even an actual technological secret. It's literally just a self replicating material we have access to, which has technological uses. But making it is barely technology once you have a sample since it's literally just "pump power into it".
You're misinterpreting what I said. I'm saying it would have been forgivable even if he had been a full allied polity because this is the kind of shit allied countries do to each other all the time, and that it was therefore even more forgivable from a desperate refugee who was not provided the promised relief aid by a significantly more powerful nation. We need to urgently help him because we're supposed to be the good guys and we fucked up by letting his people wallow in madness and slavery for literally 200 years.
Your bizarre hate-boner and insistence on atomistic tit-for-tat is like if Princess Jasmin, after seeing those orphans in the street in the first scenes of Aladdin, promised to solve hunger in Agrabah (which, for the purposes of this metaphor she is not duty bound to do because they're not legal citizens, just filthy street rats), then did nothing for several decades and then, when a street urchin stole some of her cake in the hopes of not starving to death, went "well now I certainly won't prioritize resolving hunger, and when I get around to it, you better bake me a new cake you ungrateful swine".
Perhaps more relevantly, if you do actually care about the rest of the metaphorical street urchins (which it seems you do), phrasing your arguments to take risks for their benefit as "well the only one harmed is that one filthy orphan who stole my cake and fuck him" is the opposite of convincing. Things were about equal on this vote when it was "take a risk on losing access to backup and potentially triggering his paranoia in the hopes that a show of good faith will aid negotiations" and you came in with "I agree that this probably isn't a good idea, but fuck Vlaahk in particular. This guy's crazy and actively trying to kill us but what's Vlaahk's excuse for stealing a small sample of proprietary material in the desperate hope that it might help free his entire species from their eternal torment" and suddenly "cut contact" sounded like the asshole choice.