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I'm a High Fantasy Tax Collector, So What? A CKII Tax Collector Quest

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@065tdsa

I mean, it's possible that part of what's going on here is debt-swapping as currency among the nobility and the merchant class.

On the other hand, unless the idiot son is ridiculously off-base here, his family is still at least trying to collect the debt service payments from this other family. I don't think he's making that up; I can imagine him being stupid, but not that stupid.

Although I suppose it is not impossible that the local economy is being distorted by some clever financial instrument being used among the local nobles and elite merchants in lieu of currency.
 
I am personally leaning towards the theory of someone finding a gold vein or stash of ancient treasury and keeping it secret whilst flooding the market.

Edit: By the way, this is the main reason I want to get some mercs this turn.
huhYeahGoodPoint said:
[] [Martial] Acquiring Power
With the early end of the campaign season, some mercenaries and adventurers have returned to the province. You have the opportunity to hire them...provided, of course, you outbid the other potential buyers, like the nobility, and the Army. The sooner you move, the lower you can bid...hopefully. DC: 20. Cost: 6 Budget.
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huhYeahGoodPoint said:
[] [Martial] Acquiring Power
As every day passes, the nobility keep jacking up the bidding on the available mercenary forces in this city. The longer you wait, the more you'll pay and less you'll get. DC: 22. Cost: 10 Budget.
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If you compare this turn's action against last turn's, you can see that it has increased its DC by 2 and requires another 4 Budget. I don't want to see how much harder and expensive it gets next turn if we don't take it this turn.
 
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Simon_Jester said:
@065tdsa

I mean, it's possible that part of what's going on here is debt-swapping as currency among the nobility and the merchant class.

On the other hand, unless the idiot son is ridiculously off-base here, his family is still at least trying to collect the debt service payments from this other family. I don't think he's making that up; I can imagine him being stupid, but not that stupid.

Although I suppose it is not impossible that the local economy is being distorted by some clever financial instrument being used among the local nobles and elite merchants in lieu of currency.
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He is off base. That's why his mother showed up immediately to shut him the hell up and tell us to completely forget about trying to help them collect. While on paper there's a schedule for it to be repaid, it's not actually being done.

The idiot son doesn't understand anything of what's happening so he only knows the official, on-paper story, which is that his family is owed money and isn't seeing any of it.
 
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065tdsa said:
He is off base. That's why his mother showed up immediately to shut him the hell up and tell us to completely forget about trying to help them collect. While on paper there's a schedule for it to be repaid, it's not actually being done.

The idiot son doesn't understand anything of what's happening so he only knows the official, on-paper story, which is that his family is owed money and isn't seeing any of it.
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I mean, maybe. I guess.

...

The problem is that in a specie economy, this kind of debt instrument only goes so far. We're not seeing masses of paper notes in circulation backed by Lord Whozit's Debt Bond Shares or something; if there's paper notes changing hands they're changing hands only between the merchants and nobility, and they can't feasibly be using it except to trade among themselves- if anyone was paying workers in currency backed by debt or a something, I think we'd have noticed.

There's also Gresham's Law to consider: bad currency drives out good, and in a situation like this, debt-backed securities aren't going to be seen as 'good currency' compared to gold and silver. Not even by the nobles themselves. So you'd expect everyone to be hoarding their gold and silver and trying to spend the debt-backed security notes... which would make it even MORE obvious that this was going on.

I would think, anyway. Forensic economics is not my strong suit.
 
Simon_Jester said:
I mean, maybe. I guess.

...

The problem is that in a specie economy, this kind of debt instrument only goes so far. We're not seeing masses of paper notes in circulation backed by Lord Whozit's Debt Bond Shares or something; if there's paper notes changing hands they're changing hands only between the merchants and nobility, and they can't feasibly be using it except to trade among themselves- if anyone was paying workers in currency backed by debt or a something, I think we'd have noticed.

There's also Gresham's Law to consider: bad currency drives out good, and in a situation like this, debt-backed securities aren't going to be seen as 'good currency' compared to gold and silver. Not even by the nobles themselves. So you'd expect everyone to be hoarding their gold and silver and trying to spend the debt-backed security notes... which would make it even MORE obvious that this was going on.

I would think, anyway. Forensic economics is not my strong suit.
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Yeah, except:
huhYeahGoodPoint said:
However, you do get one fascinating hint - while the taxes to the government were all paid in hard specie, you were seeing traces of "grants" being paid and bought by the government in amounts that would've been far too unwieldy to transport in public. For one, you would have noticed an entire wagon of specie rolling down the street during the beginning of the month, if you were reading these notes right - which, admittedly, you could be failing to, but assuming it was accurate enough, it probably meant that they were transferring money through unofficial means - a unsanctioned coinage in significantly higher denominations, or quite possibly losing the metal altogether and sticking to paper.
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We already know where the money may be going to. The local government is staffed by "the dregs of the dregs", they'd happily accept bad currency. It's a theory, but it is the one thing I can think of that easily fits all we know at the moment. Revisions after next turn I guess.
 
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065tdsa said:
Yeah, except:

We already know where the money may be going to. The local government is staffed by "the dregs of the dregs", they'd happily accept bad currency. It's a theory, but it is the one thing I can think of that easily fits all we know at the moment. Revisions after next turn I guess.
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OK, but if the local government is being paid in IOUs, how are they paying out their own bills to local merchants and laborers who presumably won't take the paper, or more to the point probably can't be taking the paper without our noticing?

I think it's more likely that there's effectively a secret bank kicking around somewhere, where the nobles store their secret gold reserves, and that money is just rolling back and forth from vault to vault without ever leaving the bank as the noble houses pay each other.
 
065tdsa said:
People who deliberately avoid a chance to collect debts. That just screams something weird is up. In fact, it screams that the source of money these people discovered is not in fact a source of money, but using debt as money with a complete disregard as to whether it can be paid.

Thus why nobody with a brain wants to try to collect, if they do the whole rotten edifice will come down.
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*Great Depression intensifies*
Just what this nation needs:V
 
[X] Plan Getting Settled In

This plan seems like a good way to build support and gather funds. Though given the precarious economic situation I do agree that we should start trying to turn those funds into more support rather than hoarding them. It'll be interesting if we manage to get "the Ministry funds itself" in the midst of a monetary crisis lol.

Looking forward to when we get to explore that hill, and I agree that actually trying to build up the spirit of Oskaria is a really good idea if we want to hold the nation together. Which appears to be what our character believes in. Also really good writing on this update huhYeahGoodPoint. It was a fun, interesting and immersing read, while still being easy to draw connections out of.
 
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THE ORIGIN OF SPECIE MONTH 2 ROLL CALL
  • Apocrypha
    • Plan Getting Settled In wins 12-1. I've also added a case information entry for The Origin of Specie - fingers crossed about whether I'll have the time to update it in the future.

    Roll me 9d100s.

    Martial: Acquiring Power: DC: 22. Base Stat: 18 + 2. Cost: 10 Budget.
    Diplomacy: Hearts, Minds, and Stomachs: DC: 20. Base Stat: 20. Cost: 4 Budget.
    Intrigue: Coining Servants: DC: 24. Base Stat: 22 + 2. Cost: 2 Budget.
    Learning: The Haul: DC: Scaling. Base Stat: 20. Cost: ???
    Stewardship: Book Sales II: DC: 20. Base Stat: 23. Gain: 30 Budget.
    Stewardship: Investments II: DC: 15. Base Stat: 23. Cost: 4 Budget.
    Stewardship: Cashing Out: DC: 15. Base Stat: 23. Realized Gain: 26 Budget.
    Piety: Local Spirits: DC: 20. Base Stat: 23 + 2. Cost: 2 Budget.
     
  • Apocrypha
    • Well, we do have plenty of rolls since someone was over zealous in rolling, but I don't know how many of those should bet taken, nor do I know what order they should be taken in.

    Edit: I'm fine with the 9 roll post being taken. It's not like there's any major reason the players have to be the ones to roll, that's just an engagement mechanic
    Blonddude42 threw 1 100-faced dice. Reason: Roll Total: 70
    70 70
     
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    Alright, I'm gonna make the call based on my gut.

    Should there be multiple rolls in the future, I will only accept the first one.

    If I had wanted to roll all of them at once without letting the questers roll, I would have just done it myself.

    Based on that, only the 93 will be taken as the roll for the Martial action.
     
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