- Location
- Somewhere over the rainbow
Stewardship's too high - the Encyclopaedia de Cille cannot give you more stat bonuses over 30 Stewardship.
I'm a High Fantasy Tax Collector, So What? A CKII Tax Collector Quest
- Thread starter hYGP
- Start date
- Original Fantasy
-
- Tags
- death ck2 quest all proceeds go to real spiders are we revolutionaries or reactionaries today criminal justice discussion makes the gm fuzzy don't count your boats before they sail granary management if i lose my meows get me likes to replace them justice spider knock knock it's the finance ministry meows for discussion while supplies last taxation taxes this is not an empire quest
@huhYeahGoodPoint From what I remember, Local Spirits involve runework and so would trigger the Wintercore Wand. Does calling on Justice Swift and Decisive also trigger Wintercore Wand?
My memory is saying it does, but I want to be sure.
- Location
- New York
[X] Plan If They Want A War, Give Them One
-[X] [Martial] New Contracts
-[X] [Diplomacy] The Presses
-[X] [Free] The Guildmasters
--[X] Add Minor Boon to The Guildmasters
-[X] [Free] The High Clergy
--[X] Add Minor Boon to The High Clergy
-[X] [Free] The Streets
--[X] Add Minor Boon to The Streets
-[X] [Intrigue] Screw the Conspiracy
-[X] [Learning] Magical Remapping
-[X] [Stewardship] Reply and Riposte
-[X] [Piety] The Local Spirits
-[X] [Item] Encyclopaedia de Cille
I do not wish to beholden to anybody besides our superiors. Isn't Tekla's piety heterodox so piety based items such as the Precision Refinery less effective for him?
-[X] [Martial] New Contracts
-[X] [Diplomacy] The Presses
-[X] [Free] The Guildmasters
--[X] Add Minor Boon to The Guildmasters
-[X] [Free] The High Clergy
--[X] Add Minor Boon to The High Clergy
-[X] [Free] The Streets
--[X] Add Minor Boon to The Streets
-[X] [Intrigue] Screw the Conspiracy
-[X] [Learning] Magical Remapping
-[X] [Stewardship] Reply and Riposte
-[X] [Piety] The Local Spirits
-[X] [Item] Encyclopaedia de Cille
I do not wish to beholden to anybody besides our superiors. Isn't Tekla's piety heterodox so piety based items such as the Precision Refinery less effective for him?
- Location
- Canada
- Pronouns
- He/Him
- Location
- Southampton, Great Britain
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Ah well. We have a boon for that.
Equipment bonuses are applied after bonuses from Boons and Cooperation. The Encyclopaedia de Cille will not apply to Stewardship over 30, regardless of how we get it to 30. At best we can get to 31.8 and that is if we are willingly to spend our last major boon on mere lawyering.
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- Location
- Canada
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Fortunately, I'm pretty sure that's not true in this case. WW and EAD affect base piety and stewardship respectively. EDC doubles the EAD bonus - to base stewardship. Boons and Coop should apply after that.
@huhYeahGoodPoint?
And you're wrong that it's mere lawyering. What that option, combined with metal detecting, gives us is probable cause to arrest every treasonous noble in the city at once.
- Location
- Attached to a wall
- Pronouns
- She/Her
[X][Item] Encyclopaedia de Cille
A servant of the government should seek to minimize conflicts of intrest.
[X] Plan If They Want A War, Give Them One
A servant of the government should seek to minimize conflicts of intrest.
[X] Plan If They Want A War, Give Them One
- Location
- Canada
- Pronouns
- He/Him
So this plan is based on the assumption that we can reach 34 stewardship via cooperation and a minor boon. If @huhYeahGoodPoint says otherwise, I will adjust.
Also, this is a plan where order of actions makes a difference - these are designed to build on each other, one after another.
[X] Plan: Shock and Awe
- [X] [Item] Encyclopaedia de Cille
- [X] [Item] Wintercore Wand
- [X] [Item] Precision Refinery
- [X] [Piety] Oskaria's Jewel
- [X] [Stewardship + Free] Into the Abyss + Minor Boon
- [X] [Learning] Metal Stockpiles
- [X] [Martial] First Strike
-- [X] Targeting the Nobles revealed to be in violation of laws via the Metal Stockpiles action in particular, as well as anyone else we have good reason to go after.
- [X] [Diplomacy] The Presses
- [X] [Free] Reply and Riposte
- [X] [Free] The Streets + Major Boon
- [X] [Intrigue] Mapping the Network
Important Note: Every action in this plan is an auto-success, barring the last one, Mapping the Network. That one is a long shot, but a long shot with reasons.
So my logic is this:
Start by buying the above items. Cormag's piety auto-succeeds at bringing in Ophelia-Oskaria, our heavy hitter, leaving our stats at:
Martial: Ophelia, 22 + 5 (Tax Cut) = 27. T
Diplomacy: Tekla, 20 + 2 (Vestements) = 22
Intrigue: Kerrie, 19 + 2 (Tools of the Trade) = 21
Learning: Ophelia, 24
Stewardship: Ophelia, 24 + 9.6 (WW + EAD + Encyc). = 30 Just stupidly powerful.
Piety: Ophelia, 25 base, + 3 with Wintercore Wand = 28
Next, Into the Abyss tells us exactly how much in the way of military stuff a noble is allowed to have in the capital. Metal Stockpiles then identifies nobles with too much - which both shows us likely traitors, and more importantly, is an arrestable crime in itself.
At this point, we go loud and arrest bloody everyone. Because we were able to identify our targets so quickly and from a distance, no one expects it. We throw the traitors in cells.
Now, with the traitors unable to effectively fight back from jail, we use The Presses, Reply and Riposte and The Streets to make sure everyone knows what traitorous scum the are. This has the added benefit of putting the populace on guard against foreign maneuvering later.
By the end of the month, the traitorous nobles are in jail and the public is calling for their heads. This should make it much easier for Kerrie to begin sidling up to their servants and asking some pointed questions.
Also, this is a plan where order of actions makes a difference - these are designed to build on each other, one after another.
[X] Plan: Shock and Awe
- [X] [Item] Encyclopaedia de Cille
- [X] [Item] Wintercore Wand
- [X] [Item] Precision Refinery
- [X] [Piety] Oskaria's Jewel
- [X] [Stewardship + Free] Into the Abyss + Minor Boon
- [X] [Learning] Metal Stockpiles
- [X] [Martial] First Strike
-- [X] Targeting the Nobles revealed to be in violation of laws via the Metal Stockpiles action in particular, as well as anyone else we have good reason to go after.
- [X] [Diplomacy] The Presses
- [X] [Free] Reply and Riposte
- [X] [Free] The Streets + Major Boon
- [X] [Intrigue] Mapping the Network
Important Note: Every action in this plan is an auto-success, barring the last one, Mapping the Network. That one is a long shot, but a long shot with reasons.
So my logic is this:
Start by buying the above items. Cormag's piety auto-succeeds at bringing in Ophelia-Oskaria, our heavy hitter, leaving our stats at:
Martial: Ophelia, 22 + 5 (Tax Cut) = 27. T
Diplomacy: Tekla, 20 + 2 (Vestements) = 22
Intrigue: Kerrie, 19 + 2 (Tools of the Trade) = 21
Learning: Ophelia, 24
Stewardship: Ophelia, 24 + 9.6 (WW + EAD + Encyc). = 30 Just stupidly powerful.
Piety: Ophelia, 25 base, + 3 with Wintercore Wand = 28
Next, Into the Abyss tells us exactly how much in the way of military stuff a noble is allowed to have in the capital. Metal Stockpiles then identifies nobles with too much - which both shows us likely traitors, and more importantly, is an arrestable crime in itself.
At this point, we go loud and arrest bloody everyone. Because we were able to identify our targets so quickly and from a distance, no one expects it. We throw the traitors in cells.
Now, with the traitors unable to effectively fight back from jail, we use The Presses, Reply and Riposte and The Streets to make sure everyone knows what traitorous scum the are. This has the added benefit of putting the populace on guard against foreign maneuvering later.
By the end of the month, the traitorous nobles are in jail and the public is calling for their heads. This should make it much easier for Kerrie to begin sidling up to their servants and asking some pointed questions.
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- Location
- USA
How would this work with Tekla considering that he doesn't have a number for his Piety stat? Would he just get a plus 2?
It seems we are all in agreement on what to buy:
[X] Plan Maximize Oskaria
-[X] [Item] Encyclopaedia de Cille
-[X] [Item] Wintercore Wand
-[X] [Item] Precision Refinery
-[X] [Martial] First Strike
-[X] [Diplomacy] The Presses
-[X] [Free] The Neutral Nobility
-[X] [Intrigue] Mapping the Network
-[X] [Learning] Magical Remapping
-[X] [Stewardship] Lawyer Up
-[X] [Free] Reply and Riposte
-[X] [Piety] Oskaria's Jewel
-[X] [Free] The Local Spirits
This plan is to take maximum advantage of Oskaria while active, since I don't want to call on her more than needed.
With Oskaria, First Strike should be an auto-success, so let's do that, and get a bunch of the traitor nobles in prison.
We take Presses and Replay and Riposte to counteract the traitor's propaganda, these should all auto-pass.
We take the Neutral Nobility to get them on our side, since they are an easy pass. We could alternatively try The Streets, but that would not be an auto-pass, so I think we do that next turn, after our propaganda gets to work on the people, and when we can devote Free actions to supporting it (which will make it an auto-pass). This is because Oskaria does not help improve our diplomacy, so the synergies are better to focus on hard Diplomacy actions when we are not using the Spirit of Oskaria.
We take Lawyer Up, because with Oskaria active it's an auto-pass, and that should prevent the traitor nobles from interfering.
Local Spirits are also an auto-pass with Oskaria active, and that will give us bonuses next turn, when we presumably won't have Oskaria active.
This means passing on the Into the Abyss action, because it appears we just can not get that high enough to be better than a 50/50 chance of success.
The only non-auto success here is the Intrigue action. We simply cannot pass the Easing In action to get evidence on the traitor Nobles unless we roll a 100. The easiest Intrigue action, Screw the Conspiracy only stalls the traitor Nobles, disrupting their plans, but we are already doing that with the First Strike Martial and the Lawyer Up Stewardship actions. So I'm picking the Mapping the Network, which requires us to roll a 70 or better, unless the Local Spirits or First Strike actions aid us this in that this turn, (which they might). But it's better than Easing In which is an auto-failure, and if we pass that one this turn, it should give us a bonus to Easing In next turn, which along with the Local Spirits bonus and a Free Action supporting ought to make it something we can succeed at. And if we fail at this one it's much less likely to backfire than any of the other options.
Basically the core idea is to maximize the benefits of Oskaria this turn by taking multiple auto-pass actions that we normally could not auto-pass without Oskaria, to get a lot of bonuses for next turn. And then next turn use our Free Actions plus those bonuses to succeed in the more difficult actions that Oskaria can't help us with (Diplomacy and Intrigue). This traitor conspiracy trial isn't something we can win with just one turn, we need to setup next turn to be the winning turn.
This should leave us well positioned next turn, when we can take less difficult Martial actions, take The Streets with a supporting free action (or possibly auto-pass it with the Local Spirits help), and potentially use Metal Detection so we can confiscate the wealth of the Traitor Nobles. And we ought to have the support of the Neutral Nobles next turn as well, to help support our other actions. We can also focus our Free actions that turn to get the harder actions.
One alternative is if the Wintercore Wand applies to Justice Swift and Decisive we could take that instead of Local Spirits, add a Major Boon and make it an auto success.
[X] Plan Maximize Oskaria
-[X] [Item] Encyclopaedia de Cille
-[X] [Item] Wintercore Wand
-[X] [Item] Precision Refinery
-[X] [Martial] First Strike
-[X] [Diplomacy] The Presses
-[X] [Free] The Neutral Nobility
-[X] [Intrigue] Mapping the Network
-[X] [Learning] Magical Remapping
-[X] [Stewardship] Lawyer Up
-[X] [Free] Reply and Riposte
-[X] [Piety] Oskaria's Jewel
-[X] [Free] The Local Spirits
This plan is to take maximum advantage of Oskaria while active, since I don't want to call on her more than needed.
With Oskaria, First Strike should be an auto-success, so let's do that, and get a bunch of the traitor nobles in prison.
We take Presses and Replay and Riposte to counteract the traitor's propaganda, these should all auto-pass.
We take the Neutral Nobility to get them on our side, since they are an easy pass. We could alternatively try The Streets, but that would not be an auto-pass, so I think we do that next turn, after our propaganda gets to work on the people, and when we can devote Free actions to supporting it (which will make it an auto-pass). This is because Oskaria does not help improve our diplomacy, so the synergies are better to focus on hard Diplomacy actions when we are not using the Spirit of Oskaria.
We take Lawyer Up, because with Oskaria active it's an auto-pass, and that should prevent the traitor nobles from interfering.
Local Spirits are also an auto-pass with Oskaria active, and that will give us bonuses next turn, when we presumably won't have Oskaria active.
This means passing on the Into the Abyss action, because it appears we just can not get that high enough to be better than a 50/50 chance of success.
The only non-auto success here is the Intrigue action. We simply cannot pass the Easing In action to get evidence on the traitor Nobles unless we roll a 100. The easiest Intrigue action, Screw the Conspiracy only stalls the traitor Nobles, disrupting their plans, but we are already doing that with the First Strike Martial and the Lawyer Up Stewardship actions. So I'm picking the Mapping the Network, which requires us to roll a 70 or better, unless the Local Spirits or First Strike actions aid us this in that this turn, (which they might). But it's better than Easing In which is an auto-failure, and if we pass that one this turn, it should give us a bonus to Easing In next turn, which along with the Local Spirits bonus and a Free Action supporting ought to make it something we can succeed at. And if we fail at this one it's much less likely to backfire than any of the other options.
Basically the core idea is to maximize the benefits of Oskaria this turn by taking multiple auto-pass actions that we normally could not auto-pass without Oskaria, to get a lot of bonuses for next turn. And then next turn use our Free Actions plus those bonuses to succeed in the more difficult actions that Oskaria can't help us with (Diplomacy and Intrigue). This traitor conspiracy trial isn't something we can win with just one turn, we need to setup next turn to be the winning turn.
This should leave us well positioned next turn, when we can take less difficult Martial actions, take The Streets with a supporting free action (or possibly auto-pass it with the Local Spirits help), and potentially use Metal Detection so we can confiscate the wealth of the Traitor Nobles. And we ought to have the support of the Neutral Nobles next turn as well, to help support our other actions. We can also focus our Free actions that turn to get the harder actions.
One alternative is if the Wintercore Wand applies to Justice Swift and Decisive we could take that instead of Local Spirits, add a Major Boon and make it an auto success.
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- Location
- Southampton, Great Britain
- Pronouns
- He/Him
No. Boons and Coop have always applied before any items. This is always the case despite you insisting otherwise whenever it comes up. Can you bother to learn how the mechanics works because this is the third time we have had to have conversation?
How? This seems like a major assumption on your part.
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- Location
- Attached to a wall
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Why is everybody in favour of owing favours to people in exchange for power?
Is the wrongness of it not clear enough?
What do we do if one of those favours gets in the way of our duties? What will we do when those merchants want us to do something against the the interests of the citizens of Oskaria?
There are reasons why it's recommended to accept no gifts and to turn down those wines or a quick lift so that you don't need to take the public transport.
A financial professional should even pay their own bills if they have a diner-meeting with a client.
And that is because, they will have something to threaten you with when you need to speak up. You are clearly in their boat, you are a joint conspirator and if their ship sinks, they will be sure to expose the fact that you accepted gifts from them. EVEN if you don't go against them.
And the worst thing is that the most will dangerous be the most benign, and might even seem sympathetic.
A sentence like: 'My brother accidentally misplaced some money in my company. Could you slip some these coins into the our safe so that law enforcement won't have to be involved?' Would sound reasonable, but you would be still be complacent in fraud. And that is dangerous. Dangerous to the public and dangerous to your career.
Is the wrongness of it not clear enough?
What do we do if one of those favours gets in the way of our duties? What will we do when those merchants want us to do something against the the interests of the citizens of Oskaria?
There are reasons why it's recommended to accept no gifts and to turn down those wines or a quick lift so that you don't need to take the public transport.
A financial professional should even pay their own bills if they have a diner-meeting with a client.
And that is because, they will have something to threaten you with when you need to speak up. You are clearly in their boat, you are a joint conspirator and if their ship sinks, they will be sure to expose the fact that you accepted gifts from them. EVEN if you don't go against them.
And the worst thing is that the most will dangerous be the most benign, and might even seem sympathetic.
A sentence like: 'My brother accidentally misplaced some money in my company. Could you slip some these coins into the our safe so that law enforcement won't have to be involved?' Would sound reasonable, but you would be still be complacent in fraud. And that is dangerous. Dangerous to the public and dangerous to your career.
You haven't explained those reasons. We can only pass that action if we roll a 100.
- Location
- Canada
- Pronouns
- He/Him
That was actually a mistake, I meant to put Mapping the Network. I've edited it since.
The reason is essentially that Screw the Conspiracy isn't useful - making their lives hell doesn't matter if we throw them in jail this turn - and intimidating judges shouldn't be necessary if the entire city is howling for traitor blood. I'm also hoping action synergy will help there, but that's less relevant.
Well, a couple reasons. One, if they ask favours that are too much, we can always just not pay. Yes, that will have consequences, but we can make that decision. Second, the country is about to burn down. Favour-swapping just doesn't seem that worrying compared to multiple imminent invasions.
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- Location
- Southampton, Great Britain
- Pronouns
- He/Him
That is nothing wrong about it. We are just paying for an item in services rather coin, which isn't that uncommon in this time period. It has only become borderline universal to pay in money since we got fiat money. When you still had to carry about money with you, it was very common to pay in other valuables than specie like food or labour.
- Location
- France
[X][Item] Encyclopaedia de Cille
- Location
- Somewhere over the rainbow
Spellwork and runework is actually meant to be completely seperate from spiritual affairs - there is some element of ritual and sacrifice, but Agueda would tell you that your work can honestly be as sloppy as you want so long as you get the spirit's attention. Using a Wintercore Wand and an intricate ritual array honestly doesn't give you a meaningful benefit compared to just throwing shit vaguely in a ritual formation when it comes to spiritual negotiations, but it matters a lot for delicate spell and runework.
Nah, his HETERODOX Piety stat means that he can't really get spiritual support from the Compact - magically, he's around a 16.
Boons apply to the Base Stat, Cooperation applies to the Base Stat, so by the wording they all apply to the base stat, making your highest check possible somewhere on the order of 24 + 4.8 + 3 + 3 = 34.8. I'm fairly certain I've ruled before that Boons apply before tool benefits, but upon reflection it makes more sense to make Cooperation apply after tool benefits - though this doesn't really change what your peak stat is going to look like anyway.
Of course, in this specific action you're not getting much benefit from the Encylopaedia de Cille at this point, but like, you are literally calling upon a divine champion of a nation assisted by a well-honed team equipped with some of the best items in the kingdom - if there was anything that would push past the bounds of the encylopedia's knowledge, it's that.
As a result, your plan will result in a Stewardship of 33, not the 34 you were hoping for. Sorry.
- Location
- Southampton, Great Britain
- Pronouns
- He/Him
So repeated refusal to acknowledge the mechanics gets them changed in your favour, but when you accept what the QM has previously ruled in the past, you just have to put up with a set of mechanics which don't let you do as much as you would like.
I do not like how the game mechanics are suddenly changed mid-quest because one poster's inability to understand the mechanics and keep bringing up the same settled issue until it altered in their favour. Do we just have to repeatedly ignore how the game works and insisting that it should benefit us until it is changed to do so now?
- Location
- Somewhere over the rainbow
The rulings on boons hasn't changed. Have I made a different ruling in the past on Cooperation bonuses?
- Location
- Southampton, Great Britain
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Yes. Once when I was trying to get Intrigue above 27, you told me I couldn't do that as Tools of the Trade caps at Intrigue 27 and it applied after a Minor Boon and Cooperation so it would only give us an +1 to Intrigue to get us to 27 due rather than an +2 to get us to 28.
Edit: Right here actually:
Looking at it, you actually told me and BelligerentGnu that which is why I am so annoyed at this as he keeps bringing this up despite having been told otherwise by the QM.
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- Location
- Somewhere over the rainbow
Prior ruling stands, then, and Cooperation does not apply after tool bonuses.
Therefore, the Stewardship on the Into the Abyss Action is 32.8 rather than 33.
This is a less than effective actions list, even assuming you do not want to use Osakria this turn.
The Neutral Nobility are an auto pass without any expenditure of Boons, and since the nobility have military, they are going to be more helpful than the Guildmasters. I'd strongly recommend dropping the Guildmasters for the Neutral Nobility.
On a more general anlaysis, this is a rather risky plan, with multiple actions that might fail, despite using three Minor Boons. I'd suggest dropping the High Clergy and instead use the Free Action to provide aid to The Streets action. The Streets and the Neutral Nobility are the most likely powers to aid us against the Traitor Nobles, so I'd recommend focusing on them instead of spreading ourselves so thin on Diplomacy.
I'd also note that both Magical Mapping has only a 30% chance of success, while Local Spirits has only a 19% chance of success.
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@BelligerentGnu Seeing as you can't get above 32.8 on Stewardship, I'd like to suggest you abandon your plan, and instead support the Maximize Oskaria plan, because it maximizes the benefits from using Oskaria, and has all auto-pass actions except for Intrigue Mapping the Network.
I think it's the closest to your plan, without having to try and make a 35 Stewardship DC.
I think it's the closest to your plan, without having to try and make a 35 Stewardship DC.
Sirrocco
Pedantic
Check me if I'm wrong, but... getting a 35 when you start with a 32.8 isn't all that hard, right? I mean, I don't know the mathing for this quest particularly well, but that seems like a roll that's still likely to succeed. Am I missing something?
- Location
- Omniverse #1345
Specifically that's a DC of 22/100