But it's better than f*cking large chunks of the world over, regular citizens included, to achieve our goals, like certain canon characters I won't name.
Our choices are not "sell our robots or retread canon". The question is what to do with our robots. For example, we could be feeding the world in a fraction of the time that it would take to make enough robots to work the fields if we put resources towards industrial farming practices instead. Or, if we do build enough robots to appease every slave owner, we will have also built enough robots to kill every slave owner. I'm sure they'll all realize that, too.
If we are ever short of money we can raid a dungeon.
People can't eat money. Automated labor will be our biggest asset regardless of what specific route we choose.
 
We should identify every cash crop grown by slave labor then undercut all existing prices.

Edit: We need an update. Speculation is killing us.
 
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We should identify every cash crop grown by slave labor then undercut all existing prices.

Edit: We need an update. Speculation is killing us.

Well, you'll get a status update, at least. The story update is mostly finished, but I, uh, kinda got distracted by discovering MTG Arena. Oops.

Anyway, while I'm typing this up, I'd like to remind people to go out and vote if you're a registered voter in the US. Everyone else, have fun!
 
Well, you'll get a status update, at least. The story update is mostly finished, but I, uh, kinda got distracted by discovering MTG Arena. Oops.

Anyway, while I'm typing this up, I'd like to remind people to go out and vote if you're a registered voter in the US. Everyone else, have fun!
I voted by mail in. Honestly I have no idea how I would manage to vote today with my work schedule.
 
Our choices are not "sell our robots or retread canon". The question is what to do with our robots. For example, we could be feeding the world in a fraction of the time that it would take to make enough robots to work the fields if we put resources towards industrial farming practices instead. Or, if we do build enough robots to appease every slave owner, we will have also built enough robots to kill every slave owner. I'm sure they'll all realize that, too.
Fair. Improving farming efficiency isn't necessarily completely divorced from making drones, though. A combine harvester piloted by a drone brain is probably more efficient than having to train ancient society-level humans in how to handle heavy machinery properly, and building the machinery.

Not that I'm downplaying how much going Norman Borlaug and introducing GE, all-environments wheat would do, BTW. Hell, that one is easy for Astra to match or exceed. That sort of thing would seriously help a lot of people in arid regions.
We should identify every cash crop grown by slave labor then undercut all existing prices.

Edit: We need an update. Speculation is killing us.
GE a version of those crops without the factors that make them a PITA to grow or process. Not exactly a huge challenge for Astra, I'd imagine.
Well, you'll get a status update, at least. The story update is mostly finished, but I, uh, kinda got distracted by discovering MTG Arena. Oops.
Your brother mentioned it to you too, huh?
 
So any idea of what to do with the former slaves turned citizens? We are not requiring them to work, but I am expecting that many of them will want to do something helpful as a pride thing.
 
We currently don't know which sectors rely most on slave labor - historical Earth civilisations aren't reliable references as they didn't have magic to help with certain tasks.

Agriculture and mining can be automated with far less effort and technology than replacing e.g. personal servants, but the same probably applies to magical solutions.

If farms already boost their harvest with Green (Magnostadt probably sells artifacts to enhance plant/animal growth) that should massively increase their output and thus reduce labor requirements.

Once we know the overall situation, we should define our goal w.r.t. slavery in terms of infrastructure projects. Introducing better crops? Maximal tech level to release out of our personal control? Do we forcibly free mistreated slaves, worshippers, or all slaves we come across? Do we send out armed droids only to protect villages of also offensively? How much of our personal time do we invest? Do we investigate mass-production of Green enchantments? What timeframe do we set for abolishing slavery? What industries and education should our city-state offer?
 
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If farms already boost their harvest with Green (Magnostadt probably sells artifacts to enhance plant/animal growth) that should massively increase their output and thus reduce labor requirements.
During our survey Jade already noted that
Green mana looks as though it's the most problematic of all. White might occupy certain areas and harden, but Green occupies them and grows. Every Green artifact design you see deliberately takes advantage of this tendency to fuel its own effects, often via partial isolation of a patch of Green and only consuming the excess. Trying to prevent this growth may very well defeat the point of using Green. However, you're about ninety percent certain Green Enchantments could accomplish the same tasks with less fuss. The only downside of such enchantments would be their immobility — and admittedly, that is a rather significant downside. Still, you do think Green would be more efficient if it was allowed to properly take root instead of being confined to puny rocks. As it currently stands, the fuel for that growth is the rock itself, vastly reducing its effective lifespan in an eerie variant on what you've seen with Black. Admittedly, that might be exploitable all on its own—having a plant grow inside the equipment of a foe seems like an excellent way to rather thoroughly ruin it... or sidewalks, or streets, and really, nature just does not seem to like being confined.
Have an enchanted field of GE crop that is periodically pruned for products, if not automatically, then by an AI.
 
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We currently don't know which sectors rely most on slave labor - historical Earth civilisations aren't reliable references as they didn't have magic to help with certain tasks.

Agriculture and mining can be automated with far less effort and technology than replacing e.g. personal servants, but the same probably applies to magical solutions.

If farms already boost their harvest with Green (Magnostadt probably sells artifacts to enhance plant/animal growth) that should massively increase their output and thus reduce labor requirements.

Once we know the overall situation, we should define our goal w.r.t. slavery in terms of infrastructure projects. Introducing better crops? Maximal tech level to release out of our personal control? Do we forcibly free mistreated slaves, worshippers, or all slaves we come across? Do we send out armed droids only to protect villages of also offensively? How much of our personal time do we invest? Do we investigate mass-production of Green enchantments? What timeframe do we set for abolishing slavery? What industries and education should our city-state offer?
Most slavery on Earth was relegated to the most labor-intensive or physically dangerous jobs, and almost no one ever considers not buying more if they can afford to. Case-in-point, the cotton gin was invented with the express purpose of reducing the number of slaves southern plantation owners would need to run their businesses, but it so dramatically increased their profits during processing that they just expanded and bought even more slaves instead.

Slaves here are likely no different. Agriculture and certain positions on ships (schizo-tech universes man, triremes on the same planet as advanced sails) are still the most physically exhausting type of labor, aside being used as human transportation. The most physically degrading and dangerous jobs still include prostitution and mining, and as such probably make up the bulk of the remaining slave market, regardless of any magical kicks. Technology and magic are just multipliers on slave effectiveness, not excuses not to buy them at all.
 
So any idea of what to do with the former slaves turned citizens? We are not requiring them to work, but I am expecting that many of them will want to do something helpful as a pride thing.
I say we educate them. Yes, it'll take a while. But if they want to work, research and other such jobs are one of the main things they can do for us that we can't do more efficiently with drones.

The other option would be military service, for the ones with physical talents beyond normal human limitations. Fanalis can kick pretty serious ass. They can mix it up with most magicians, IIRC. While I doubt many others are their equals, tribes like the Imuchakk are still pretty strong, and some, like the people of Artemyra, have other talents, like bonding with animals.
We currently don't know which sectors rely most on slave labor - historical Earth civilisations aren't reliable references as they didn't have magic to help with certain tasks.
AFAIK, while Magnostadt does sell magic items, their use isn't widespread beyond their borders. You might have a noble or two using them, but magic items are expensive. That's probably more research costs than production costs, mana being a renewable resource, but production costs aren't likely to be entirely negligible, given the low average mana production on the plane.

But yeah, solid planning is going to require better data. We can make some rough plans based on history, but putting the cart too far before the horse is not the best idea.
Most slavery on Earth was relegated to the most labor-intensive or physically dangerous jobs, and almost no one ever considers not buying more if they can afford to. Case-in-point, the cotton gin was invented with the express purpose of reducing the number of slaves southern plantation owners would need to run their businesses, but it so dramatically increased their profits during processing that they just expanded and bought even more slaves instead.

Slaves here are likely no different. Agriculture and certain positions on ships (schizo-tech universes man, triremes on the same planet as advanced sails) are still the most physically exhausting type of labor, aside being used as human transportation. The most physically degrading and dangerous jobs still include prostitution and mining, and as such probably make up the bulk of the remaining slave market, regardless of any magical kicks. Technology and magic are just multipliers on slave effectiveness, not excuses not to buy them at all.
Unless, of course, the technology replaces slaves and is cheaper. But yeah, I think we're going to have to automate in the form of drones and effectively buy the slaves from their owners, if we really want to solve the issue. Even if they don't just expand and use an equal number of slaves to do more work, they may just put them to work at some other profitable enterprise, unless we buy and free them.
 
Unless, of course, the technology replaces slaves and is cheaper. But yeah, I think we're going to have to automate in the form of drones and effectively buy the slaves from their owners, if we really want to solve the issue. Even if they don't just expand and use an equal number of slaves to do more work, they may just put them to work at some other profitable enterprise, unless we buy and free them.
Is there any job that a free person can do that a slave can not? I have trouble thinking of anything. So unless we replace all work entirety can't get rid of slavery by pure machine.

Rome had a big problem at points when they had such an influx of slaves that free men could not find work destroying the middle class.
 
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35.6: Civics
[X] You're not going to discuss any potential intervention or nonintervention. Foreign policy should be given directly.

"Look, I'm not going to be discussing any potential intervention or lack thereof. My foreign polices should be told to those it's relevant to, not a random mage I met on the street."

Terry glances at the path beneath his feet and smiles sheepishly. He does another short bow before reestablishing eye contact.

"I apologize, Princess. Still, thank you for the information on your nature. It has been most illuminating."

[X] But it's not like personal intervention will, for example, end slavery on this world. Elsewhere, when faced with problems of a similar scale, you began a decades-long program of peaceful societal reform by pressuring governments with a solution to some of their problems. He discounted diplomacy, but the right kind of pressures are what will motivate the most change.
-[X] To give an example, it's possible to mass-produce mechanical constructs that do not eat, think, tire, or suffer, which can replace all agricultural labor in an entire state.
[X] Forceful methods are an expedient way to assert temporary control over a situation, but they don't tend towards long-term stability. It's true that you would refuse to ignore suffering in front of you. You also have to temper that by considering what helps the most in the long term.
-[X] Likewise, if others are genuinely trying to make positive changes, you'd probably do more long-term good by helping them than by acting separately.


"I wasn't actually finished," you cheerfully speak-sing. "See, even if I did go and start intervening everywhere slavery existed, it wouldn't actually end it on this world. You rejected the idea of diplomacy being viable, but I've done this sort of thing before with problems on a similar scale. If you give someone a palatable alternative to continuing something amoral, such as slavery, odds are they're going to take it. I could go liberate the world by force, or I could simply give them mass-produced mechanical 'golems' capable of replacing said slaves. The golems don't eat, think, tire, suffer, or even really die, making them an excellent alternative. If I started giving them out in order of which — ah, never mind, I almost went into foreign policy there."

You're not even sure your off-hand idea of giving them to the slave-free nations first would work. Civilization is seldom quick to change.

"Anyway, forceful methods might grant temporary control over a situation, but they're not really great for letting you keep control. If other people are trying to make genuinely positive changes? Helping them is often quicker than doing so separately. Yes, I refuse to ignore suffering in front of me, but it's important to temper short-term interventions with long-term benefits. Destroying is always going to be easier than rebuilding, but that doesn't mean I should go and do that to everything irritating me. I'm trying to not be the thunderbolts-and-smiting kind of goddess."

Terry waits patiently for you to finish, his expression surprisingly static for a Red mage. This time, he waits for a solid five or ten seconds to respond, apparently afraid of 'interrupting' you again. Oops.

"I understand, Princess Jade. Is prayer a viable method of contacting you even if it is unaccompanied by worship?"

You blink, not having expected this question. Your mouth replies before your brain has time to weigh in.

"Not really. Prayers are good for general trends, not so great for the little things. You should talk to my mother about such matters."

Suppressing a frown, you check your mind for Blue and find none. Seeing Terry's own unchanging expression reminds you that you should probably avoid establishing the habit of hiding your emotions. Mom keeps saying an Agni shouldn't do that, but honestly, you think it might be more important to not be a seemingly-emotionless Red mage.

...And where are you getting the impressions of what a mage should be like, anyway?

After a slight pause, Terry allows himself a slightly wry smile.

"Are we referring to the Magebane Golem speaking with the Board of Advisors or the individual standing behind you? Incidentally, if you want to share whatever magic you're using to partition your mind like that, I'm pretty sure our scribes would love you forever."

"I am not using any colored spells to improve my mind," Mom replies placidly. "I am not Jade's archangel for no reason. Incidentally, either one of my... extensions would be acceptable."

Terry exhales through his teeth and grimaces.

"Right, I'll just go talk with the terrifying hulk of metal and claws, shall I? It'd be the best way to feed info to the others."

You blink. You'd suspected him of being a representative of one of Magnostadt's factions, not a full-fledged councilor or advisor or whatever they're called.

"You're allowed into council meetings?" you ask curiously. Getting the questioning tone across while singing is tricky; you'll have to practice more later.

Terry shrugs, glances around, and lowers his voice to just above a whisper.

"I'm one of the top students. They assume I'll be an advisor one day, so I get to sit in and learn how to govern the city. If I'm going to be brutally honest, I'm mostly learning what not to do; the underground goi were supposed to be a temporary source of power initially and an emergency source later. Instead, it feels like the forestation efforts and other mana-generating projects are getting less and less support with every passing year."

Terry bows and takes several steps back.

"Either way, thank you for humoring me, Princess. I wish you a good day and the best of luck dealing with the more conservative King Candidates."

Terry spins on one heel and dashes further into the academy, the regular thud-thump-thud of his footsteps vanishing into the distance. You blink after him, decide shouting a goodbye would be undignified, and turn to Mom. You're still not sure what you want to do next, but finding out what you're up against is nice, concrete, and a bit overdue.

"So what are 'King Candidates' anyway? I mean, I know they're the people the djinn choose and empower or whatever, but why do we care? I kinda feel like we should just be able to walk over this entire plane."

Agneyastra Mom places one hand in the small of your back and helps steer you inside, flicking the doors shut behind you with a weakened Celestial Shooter bolt.

"According to the records and reports I've read, King Candidates are irritating individuals wielding powers they do not truly understand, Jade. The djinn they are bonded with provide flight, durability, shielding, offense, and additional senses in a manner remarkably similar to those who use Linker Core magics. They are often provided with some manner of elemental control and can fuel themselves by using the same. Their 'Extreme Magics' have the advantage of being able to hit an area rivaling your own Wrath of God, but come with the disadvantage of a long casting time, immobility during preparation, and a gigantic golden circle forming in the sky during casting."

"...Still not seeing why they'd be a problem? Celestial Lance says 'hi, can we be friends?'"

"They are also granted several abilities, ones possibly imitating the more annoying spells of colored mages. Mass healing, weather control, 'ghost armies' that were likely Constructs, chain lightning, medium-ranged rapid teleportation, mass illusions, reflective shielding, selective intangibility, animated plant life, and space-shearing blades are the reliable examples I have been able to compile thus far. Given the variety available, I find it likely they will be theoretically capable of anything colored mana could accomplish. As such, one Candidate would not be a problem for us. Several working together may begin to complicate matters, if not beyond the point of our own victory—they are infamously durable, but without Extreme Magic, such foes would likely lack a way to do notable damage before a broken Barrier Jacket is replaced. The larger concern is if they choose to go after easier targets, such as Sidhe or your subjects. This world seldom respects the concept of 'noncombatants' and often treats human subjects as something capable of forcing an annoying ruler to surrender.

"Of genuine concern are the so-called 'Magi' of this plane. As far as Magnostadt is aware, the Magi are magicians who can draw upon an infinite wellspring of mana associated with a given color. Presumably, it is merely a massive quantity instead of being truly limitless."

"Carried by the Rukh,"
you remember. From where, you're not sure. "So they'll only get so much every minute, but it just doesn't stop. And they're usually provided with some of the other colors by overenthusiastic spirits."

"Noted. The whereabouts and identities of the Blue, Black, and Red Magi are unknown. The Magi of White, High Priestess Scheherazade, is known to lead polytheistic worship in the Reim Empire, the oldest known polity. Reim has at least five King Candidates and may elevate another prince shortly. The Magi of Green, Yunan, is believed to loathe his job and is believed to have begun extensive study of the other colors. Scheherazade is perceived as seldom involving herself in politics, but appears to have a surprisingly large track record of recommending mercy or leniency for enemies of the state and generosity for those struggling through life. While this has been dismissed as something expected of her role, it has nonetheless done a remarkably good job of ensuring the empire remains relatively merciful toward defeated enemies, allowing said individuals to influence the politics of the empire later."

"...So, still not really people we need to worry about?"

"Unfortunately, the Reim Empire, like nearly every other political entity on this plane, has an active slave trade, primarily from conquered states and those defaulting on debts. Unlike most other nations, a significant minority of these individuals are forced to fight in gladiatorial blood matches for the entertainment of Reim citizens. Successful gladiators usually gain their freedom, but those individuals are a mere fraction of those sent in. The severe lack of further financial assistance usually forces even freed individuals back as paid fighters."

"They're basically on our hit list, then? Assuming we can't, li—assuming we can't just give them some exotic toys and make everything OK?"

"Eventually. I would prefer to convert Scheherazade to your own worship before we attempt any sort of proper assault."

"...That sounds like it'd be weird. She's more powerful than I am in some ways."


"As high priestess, her role is more one who leads the worship of all divine beings acknowledged by the Reim Empire. Even having you added to the list would be a significant improvement, especially as your competition appears to be fictional."

"We don't really have a guarantee of that," you feel obliged to point out. "Absence of evidence is not itself evidence of absence. Provided, I think not having them show up after I'm this loud would be evidence in of itself, but... um, I don't know. Anyway, what's there to do around here?"

"There are ongoing lessons on colored mana among Magnostadt's newest students. More experienced mages are learning about proper safety measures for mana-based experimentation, a history lesson on the various divine beings in mythology—the lecturer appears to believe you're the Magi of Red despite significant evidence to the contrary—"

"I could actually usurp his position if I was OK with the consequences,"
you interrupt. "He's not... really..."

You frown and try to review your memories of the last several seconds. You're not sure what you were thinking. Only that the consequences are something you probably wouldn't be alright with?

"Sidhe is attending a lecture on illusions that she will likely find more interesting than you do," Mom continues. "I am currently dealing with Magnostadt's Board of Advisors, but do not require an intervention at this time. I can also almost certainly arrange for tutoring in any subject interesting to you, if at an acceptable cost to your image."



[] Crash the history lesson.
-[] Basically repeat what you told Terry. It worked before, so why not reuse it?

[] Attend the primer on colored mana.

[] Go attend the lecture on illusions with Sidhe.

[] Ask for a tutor on a specific subject.
-[] The traits of colored mana. Being able to speak with someone will be quicker than waiting for a slow class to catch up.
-[] Write-in

[] Write-in



Voting will be locked for 45 minutes after this first goes up.
...And seriously, sleep if it starts getting late where you are. This isn't going anywhere.
 
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"Eventually. I would prefer to convert Scheherazade to your own worship before we attempt any sort of proper assault."

"...That sounds like it'd be weird. She's more powerful than I am in some ways."


"As high priestess, her role is more one who leads the worship of all divine beings acknowledged by the Reim Empire. Even having you added to the list would be a significant improvement, especially as your competition appears to be fictional."
I'm sold. Agneyastra may need the occasional nudge in the right direction, but when it's time for her to have a good idea she doesn't mess around. :D
"They are also granted several abilities, ones possibly imitating the more annoying spells of colored mages. Mass healing, weather control, 'ghost armies' that were likely Constructs, chain lightning, medium-ranged rapid teleportation, mass illusions, reflective shielding, selective intangibility, animated plant life, and space-shearing blades are the reliable examples I have been able to compile thus far. Given the variety available, I find it likely they will be theoretically capable of anything colored mana could accomplish. As such, one Candidate would not be a problem for us. Several working together may begin to complicate matters, if not beyond the point of our own victory—they are infamously durable, but without Extreme Magic, such foes would likely lack a way to break your Barrier Jacket and do genuine damage. The larger concern is if they choose to go after easier targets, such as Sidhe or your subjects. This world seldom respects the concept of 'noncombatants' and often treats human subjects as something capable of forcing an annoying ruler to surrender.
Oh, right. Top-tier combatants in the Agni Empire's era were all mana mages. This kind of stuff isn't even outside context for Agneyastra, she probably has decades of live combat data and tactical manuals for all sorts of crazy junk. She didn't have it when she woke up, but Shiva's research station would certainly have had enough information to ensure that the researchers there could develop systems that'd be effective against mana mages.
 
So... do we want to sit in on the lecture or ask the tutor? It sounds like something of a matter of perception, cause one is going to a basics class to maybe see how they teach it and the other is kind of revealing our ignorance on the matter, or at least lack of formal education.
 
Hm. I can't see a ton of arguments for not asking for a tutor? I guess it's presumptous, but it does mean a more tailored education and also not showing off to a classroom as much.
 
"I could actually usurp his position if I was OK with the consequences," you interrupt. "He's not... really..."

You frown and try to review your memories of the last several seconds. You're not sure what you were thinking. Only that the consequences are something you probably wouldn't be alright with?
...Yeah, I'm not entirely sure what this is about. "He's not really the true Red Magi" is...I guess possible, if the "real" one is Aladdin, and she's thinking of someone else. "Awakened" is another possibility, I guess. "Around yet" is another. But I honestly can't come up with anything that sounds right.

I'm too busy feeling like crap right now to grab all my observations vis-a-vis the Djinn powers from the Beta thread. Suffice it to say, I don't recognize the majority of them, and most of the potential IDs are tenuous at best, barring the plant one really sounding like Zagan. Oh, also, we seem to be around the time Sinbad was young and adventuring, after Judar's precessor's death, but before the identity of the new Magi, in this case Blue, was public knowledge. Or Alivaril is jerking our collective chains, and mine in particular.

Edit: You guys can just check the compendium in my sig and compare if you want the other, tenuous ones. You're smart enough to make the comparisons, I think.
 
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[x] Ask for a tutor on a specific subject.
-[x] The traits of colored mana. Being able to speak with someone will be quicker than waiting for a slow class to catch up.
 
What do we actually want to know? Personally I think mana storage and generation is really important, as we haven't really delved into the theory/practice there at all and don't have a great idea where to start.
 
[X] Ask for a tutor on a specific subject.
-[X] The theory and practice of mana storage and generation.

Jade is exactly the kind of student who does NOT profit from direct classroom instruction. She needs a tutor or a hands-on lab.
 
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[X] Ask for a tutor on a specific subject.
-[X] Black Mana

It is our second most plentiful Mana yet we know almost nothing about it. We are going to need to learn alot more if we want to free Rement.
 
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