Because they are Perfect Defenses, messing with those is bad juju as stated by others before me.
Just have it do something else appropriate to Oramus if the opponent has a shaping defense or refund the motes into an overdrive pool.
Green Sun, Black Shadows (CG/Exalted)
- Thread starter Alexander89
- Start date
- Crossover
Because they are Perfect Defenses, messing with those is bad juju as stated by others before me.
Just have it do something else appropriate to Oramus if the opponent has a shaping defense or refund the motes into an overdrive pool.
Or your opponent is trying to claw his own eyes out because he's convinced they're plotting against him. Or he's gone Berserk against someone he cares about. A well chosen Derangement can be very bad for your opponent.
Yeah, sure, it's an idea. Someone else can write a Charm for that.
Nobody has perfect immunity to Shaping at all times (would be way too powerful), at least not without motes committed to a Charm.
As far as controversial, I realize that, but controversy can be good for discussion and idea generation. I want a Charm that is more interesting and thematic than just another PD.
Maybe change it so that they have to willingly drop their PD against Derangements, otherwise the attack doesn't work.
Oh sure, it can be awful.
But you're still a duck. Or dead. Not really a good trade, since Derangements can be cured.
Well, there's stuff like (Yozi) Glory Incarnate, which is perfect immunity as long as they have even a single mote in their pool, but that's E10. There's also Emerald Angel Unfurling which lasts for a long time and can be reflexively reactivated, providing immunity as long as the exalt keeps it up.
There's "interesting" and there's "contrary." Your suggestion is the latter. It goes against core setting conceits and is an attempt to game the system with clever language, but it's a bad idea.
Frankly, this charm isn't a Perfect Defense. It easily fails against anyone who's willing to suffer or die for their cause. To make it a true Perfect Defense, drop the clause about letting the Shaping through entirely. Make it a Perfect Defense, inflict a Derangement on the attacker related to the intended Shaping and hike the mote-cost to an appropriate level. OR you could have the Infernal suffer a Derangement instead of the Shaping, to represent physical madness being distorted into mental madness. Then you could use it to power Oramus charms which get buffed from having Derangements.
Intregity Protecting Prana might as well do exactly that since it is a reflexive activation charm in response to something and lasts 24 hours.
1. You get a read on what the effect is as per the Charm, so you can always do something else like Purity of Madness Defense. Oramus himself would likely have other options further down his Charm trees.
2. In this case you can't cure the Derangement so long as the Shaping effect is in place. Either that or the Shaping effect goes away if you cure the Derangement.
The two aren't mutually exclusive. Admittedly the idea may have problems with the established rules, but that doesn't mean it's not interesting. (and just because you don't find it interesting doesn't mean others don't)
That's the point. It's not supposed to be your run of the mill PD. I rather like the notion of "yes, I'll let you do this to me, but you're gonna suffer with me - you okay with that?" because it seems more interesting to me than "I block your attack, now suffer if you don't block this counter".
That falls under "motes committed", but I guess it doesn't really matter since that's not the crux of the issue here.
Anyways, Alexander89 can say what he thinks of the Charm when he gets on. We've discussed, and it's not likely the Charm will survive as is, so further discussion probably isn't needed at this point.
Why not just reword it a bit so its a perfect shaping defence with the flaw "if the attacker accepts a Derangement of the Infernal's choice and it is successfully inflicted"?
It is basically the same effect as the original idea and doesn't have the bypassing of shaping defences the original had.
It is basically the same effect as the original idea and doesn't have the bypassing of shaping defences the original had.
NSMS
Probably evil, unfortunately.
- Location
- A rapidly widening tear in the fabric of reality
Could just add a line that says 'if the attacker defends against the inflicted derangement in any way, or makes any attempt to remove it at a later date, then the shaping effect fails'. Doesn't break the Primacy of Perfect Defenses, but it does mean it's pretty much pointless to use one as you can get exactly the same effect just by cancelling out of the attack.
Alexander89
Pet the pretty kitty? Y/N
- Location
- Italy
Proposals thus far:
-Counter Shaping effects
-Transfer Shaping effects to someone else
-Absorb the Shaping effects into motes/willpower/something else
-Twist the Shaping effects into something positive to the Infernal
About Enjou's idea, I too think that perfectly bypassing Perfect Defense is a bit too much. However, making so the Shaping effect falls off at the same moment as the target rejects the Derangement with a Perfect Defense or later if they cure it is appropriate.
However, I have two alternatives I thought up this morning:
-Oramus is everything that Is Not. That include what the enemy wants him to be. Just moments before the Shaping effect hits the Infernal becomes what he would be if the attack hits. The Shaping attack doesn't change anything because, paradoxically, it already hits. Then the Infernal reverts to normal and laugh at the enemy. The latter may or may not be necessary for the Charm to work.
-Oramus both Exist and Does Not. Just moments before the Shaping effect hits the Infernal ceases to exists for a few instants. After that he exists again, but the Shaping effect is trapped into the border between Possible and Impossible. After that the Infernal makes a dismissing or mocking gesture towards the enemy or another target, and release the Shaping effect in their direction.
-Counter Shaping effects
-Transfer Shaping effects to someone else
-Absorb the Shaping effects into motes/willpower/something else
-Twist the Shaping effects into something positive to the Infernal
About Enjou's idea, I too think that perfectly bypassing Perfect Defense is a bit too much. However, making so the Shaping effect falls off at the same moment as the target rejects the Derangement with a Perfect Defense or later if they cure it is appropriate.
However, I have two alternatives I thought up this morning:
-Oramus is everything that Is Not. That include what the enemy wants him to be. Just moments before the Shaping effect hits the Infernal becomes what he would be if the attack hits. The Shaping attack doesn't change anything because, paradoxically, it already hits. Then the Infernal reverts to normal and laugh at the enemy. The latter may or may not be necessary for the Charm to work.
-Oramus both Exist and Does Not. Just moments before the Shaping effect hits the Infernal ceases to exists for a few instants. After that he exists again, but the Shaping effect is trapped into the border between Possible and Impossible. After that the Infernal makes a dismissing or mocking gesture towards the enemy or another target, and release the Shaping effect in their direction.
I like this one a good deal. Possible to build up a combo out of it as well, especially if you've already established a corrupting environment. Pick up the mutations and derangements, spin them around and reallocate them.
Could be a feasible way to protect allies from shaping as well, by 'eating' the shaping and then punting it into something else. A library/armory of chaos.
- Location
- Spain
I like this one as well.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
So this is basically a perfect defense that requires you to give up your turn to reflect the attack?
No need to. The Alchemical and Cecelyn's perfect defenses work similarly. It just costs a bunch of motes.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I thought that was what "the infernal ceases to exist for a few moments" meant.
Ok, how does this sound for this?
Note - this doesn't defend against non-Shaping mental influences. Soothing Balm of Insanity is the Oramus Charm that does that.
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- Location
- Spain
Seems good to me.
will408914
(slouching towards bethlehem)
- Location
- California
I have one problem with it: every time I read the title, I think of ZnT fanfiction.
It seems like the shaping defense could also lead nicely into a riposte or redirect charm wherein the Infernal both is and is not his enemy briefly. It might have to be a heretical with Loom Snarling Deception, but either way it could be hilarious and appropriate. Not sure how the fluff should sound for something like this.
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How about the shaping effect hits but does something else of a thematically related nature with no mechanical effect (barring GM and player approval).
They try to turn his eyes into bees but instead they give him a craving for honey.
They try to turn his eyes into bees but instead they give him a craving for honey.
Alexander89
Pet the pretty kitty? Y/N
- Location
- Italy
Very good!
What about this?
Being/Nonbeing Paradox Theorem (alternately, Being/Nonbeing Paradox Dismissal)
More like Black Mirror Shintai, but it would be fun to make an enemy strike us but injure himself before we tricked the world into being him instead of us ^^
Tally:
Vote Tally : Green Sun, Black Shadows (CG/Exalted) | Page 69 | Sufficient Velocity
##### NetTally 1.1.2
[X] Plan Zero is Nobody
No. of Votes: 19
Enjou
CharlBaal
chocolote12
codeRR
Doomsough
Iceblocks
Karugus
Kiriel
landcollector
Prent
random_npc
Reckless_Sun
ryuan
ScrewFate
the DragonBard
Unelemental
Walker of the Yellow Path
will408914
Zaratustra
[X] Let the GM decide.
No. of Votes: 12
Ruisu
Broken25
CharlBaal
chocolote12
Enjou
Karugus
landcollector
Prent
random_npc
ryuan
Unelemental
will408914
[X] Canon Costume
No. of Votes: 2
Iceblocks
Zaratustra
[x] Costume this.
No. of Votes: 1
Yzarc
[X] but include no yozi imagery or symbolism.
No. of Votes: 1
random_npc
Total No. of Voters: 22
Next chapter will be out tomorrow. It will include a Kallen's POV, because we need someone to describe Lelouch's new fabulous costume.
How Aizen-like...heh.
Alexander89
Pet the pretty kitty? Y/N
- Location
- Italy
Something else I am interested, but ill-equipped to pursue:
Community Advertising: Initial Testing
Ill-equipped because I am good at writing, but not at visual arts. If someone could make an ad, I would greatly reward him/her.
Community Advertising: Initial Testing
Ill-equipped because I am good at writing, but not at visual arts. If someone could make an ad, I would greatly reward him/her.
Alexander89
Pet the pretty kitty? Y/N
- Location
- Italy
First Roll (Praising the Terrorists):
(8 successes. They honestly believe you)
Second Roll (No Seeing Under the Mask):
(8 successes, plus 3 from Second Oramus Excellency. They don't even have the willpower to reject your arguments.)
Third Roll (Be the Opposite of Britannia):
(7 successes. The Ebon Dragon is pleased the modern world is so corrupted that those acting like heroes are persecuted as criminals by the government.)
(8 successes. They honestly believe you)
Second Roll (No Seeing Under the Mask):
(8 successes, plus 3 from Second Oramus Excellency. They don't even have the willpower to reject your arguments.)
Third Roll (Be the Opposite of Britannia):
(7 successes. The Ebon Dragon is pleased the modern world is so corrupted that those acting like heroes are persecuted as criminals by the government.)
Rather weird, isn't it?
Otherwise, the dice were very generous this go-around, with the first two rolls being well above average. 11 successes on the "No Seeing" is absurdly good.