Green Sun, Black Shadows (CG/Exalted)

Having a different motivation and a intimacy of spite do distract us from our actual mission though. Screwing with our own brain during a risky infiltration is probably not a great idea.
Not really. We already want to smack her down, which makes me think that the intimacy of spite isn't going to change much. As for our own mission, it has already been discussed how smacking down these bitches could advance our objectives here, and we can turn it off once we finish. Social combat can be very draining, especially among Exalts, and I suspect our host might recognize that, and write off any side effects of deactivating NSIA as normal.
 
Hand count on current yays or nays for using NSIA.

3 Yays - Enjou, meianmaru, Lilithium
1 Nay - FullNothingness

Having a different motivation and a intimacy of spite do distract us from our actual mission though. Screwing with our own brain during a risky infiltration is probably not a great idea.

Again, we can turn it off the moment we're out of social combat with her. Lelouch is perfectly capable of controlling that from previous instances, so it shouldn't distract from the mission once it's turned off.

As I said earlier, Lelouch has decided he's going to give these women a fight. For him, that means winning, and winning as completely as possible. It's understandable why, too - these are the types of people his own mother had to contend with quite frequently, and they also represent several of the aspects of Britannia that he loathes. We've got to run with that here. I know you want to get this over as quickly as possible because you view it as a distraction from our real goals, but we're only going to be able to get them to go away if we beat them badly enough. NSIA almost certainly wouldn't harm an attempt at winning against Lucinda in social combat.
 
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Hand count on current yays or nays for using NSIA.

3 Yays - Enjou, meianmaru, Lilithium
0 Nays - No solid nays thus far. Uncertainty doesn't count, folks.
Oh, and just in case it is unclear, I'm currently against using NSIA. IMO it isn't a good fit for this situation. We have two targets and defeating them is secondary to our actual goal.

It was an edit so you could have missed it but I did say it.

Not really. We already want to smack her down, which makes me think that the intimacy of spite isn't going to change much. As for our own mission, it has already been discussed how smacking down these bitches could advance our objectives here, and we can turn it off once we finish. Social combat can be very draining, especially among Exalts, and I suspect our host might recognize that, and write off any side effects of deactivating NSIA as normal.
Again, we can turn it off the moment we're out of social combat with her. Lelouch is perfectly capable of controlling that from previous instances, so it shouldn't distract from the mission once it's turned off.

As I said earlier, Lelouch has decided he's going to give these women a fight. For him, that means winning, and winning as completely as possible. It's understandable why, too - these are the types of people his own mother had to contend with quite frequently, and they also represent several of the aspects of Britannia that he loathes. We've got to run with that here. I know you want to get this over as quickly as possible because you view it as a distraction from our real goals, but we're only going to be able to get them to go away if we beat them badly enough. NSIA almost certainly wouldn't harm an attempt at winning against Lucinda in social combat.

I'm worried that by messing with our head we could break character in our zeal to hurt these ladies. Our self control is important here and messing with our head is not a great idea to keep that.

Last but not least NSIA and its followups are not a great choice when fighting multiple people. They very much only target one person at a time. And leaving aside that one of them spoke up first what we know of their background doesn't indicate one of them being less important.
 
It was an edit so you could have missed it but I did say it.

I did miss it because of that. Corrected the tally.

I'm worried that by messing with our head we could break character in our zeal to hurt these ladies. Our self control is important here and messing with our head is not a great idea to keep that.

Nothing about the charm should have Lelouch break character, and Lelouch's self-control would be as good as it always is - his Temperance remains unchanged by NSIA.

Last but not least NSIA and its followups are not a great choice when fighting multiple people. They very much only target one person at a time. And leaving aside that one of them spoke up first what we know of their background doesn't indicate one of them being less important.

And that's fine - just because a tool has limits doesn't mean you can't get use from it. Being someone's nemesis means you have to deal with their friends/minions/whatever on occasion. Even if we get information on only one of them through the Charm, it's more information than we'd have otherwise.
 
Nothing about the charm should have Lelouch break character, and Lelouch's self-control would be as good as it always is - his Temperance remains unchanged by NSIA.

Our motivation and intimacies do influence our behavior however. And NSIA messes with those.

And that's fine - just because a tool has limits doesn't mean you can't get use from it. Being someone's nemesis means you have to deal with their friends/minions/whatever on occasion. Even if we get information on only one of them through the Charm, it's more information than we'd have otherwise.

As already said NSIA doesn't give much information. The reason it was brought up was for the purposes of using its follow up charm... And that one is not great for fighting with multiple people.

The situation just doesn't fit NSIA IMO.
 
He'd be inclined to use it in ways not truly optimal for the mission though...

Lelouch committing us to a verbal sparring match with two arrogant noblewomen isn't optimal for the mission in the first place, but he's done that so here we are. Defeating them in social combat so they'll go away is what will enable us to get back to the mission, and we can turn off NSIA once they've gone away and have Lelouch's priorities back to normal.

You're also forgetting that just because his motivation changes doesn't mean he would stop caring about the mission. Several of his other Intimacies and general goals means he should still have enough grounding to want to complete the mission. Things only become really problematic if his new Motivation conflicts with doing the mission, which I find to be fairly unlikely.
 
Lelouch committing us to a verbal sparring match with two arrogant noblewomen isn't optimal for the mission in the first place, but he's done that so here we are. Defeating them in social combat so they'll go away is what will enable us to get back to the mission, and we can turn off NSIA once they've gone away and have Lelouch's priorities back to normal.

You're also forgetting that just because his motivation changes doesn't mean he would stop caring about the mission. Several of his other Intimacies and general goals means he should still have enough grounding to want to complete the mission. Things only become really problematic if his new Motivation conflicts with doing the mission, which I find to be fairly unlikely.

We can probably win the sparring match without NSIA though. We can simply use regular social combat with maybe some subtle use of WTTLD and win without messing with our own head.

And the green text isn't exactly on a good track record since IIRC it tried to have us call the cops on our own allies.
 
And the green text isn't exactly on a good track record since IIRC it tried to have us call the cops on our own allies.

I don't recall us ever being about to call the cops on our own allies. If you're talking about NSIA being used on Diethard, that was again because his motivation was such that it turned us towards self-destruction, which is extremely unlikely to be a problem here.

The green text is more Malfean than anything, and I don't think it's ever actually happened before.
 
I don't recall us ever being about to call the cops on our own allies. If you're talking about NSIA being used on Diethard, that was again because his motivation was such that it turned us towards self-destruction, which is extremely unlikely to be a problem here.

The green text is more Malfean than anything, and I don't think it's ever actually happened before.

Nah, it was with the drug bust when Leila refused to wear Black Knight uniforms...
 
Nah, it was with the drug bust when Leila refused to wear Black Knight uniforms...

Ok, though that text wasn't green. (and honestly I'm not sure where the hell it came from - he doesn't have any Charms that should be affecting his behavior like that)

Regardless, unlike that bit Lelouch isn't going to be inclined to resist the urge here. He wants a victory over these women.


Anyways, we've both said our piece on NSIA I think - no point in continuing going in circles arguing about it. Anyone else wanting to give a yay or a nay to using it really needs to speak up. Currently still 3 yays to 1 nay.
 
Ok, though that text wasn't green. (and honestly I'm not sure where the hell it came from - he doesn't have any Charms that should be affecting his behavior like that)

Regardless, unlike that bit Lelouch isn't going to be inclined to resist the urge here. He wants a victory over these women.

Ah, I misremembered... It was italicized not green.

And just to note that the sudden desire to get in fight might be an enemy charm messing with us. "Come fight me" would be a quite normal effect for that. It is also what these bitches seem to want making it even more likely.

Though I guess DGP should have caught the essence use... Maybe a vanilla social attack instead?

Anyways, we've both said our piece on NSIA I think - no point in continuing going in circles arguing about it. Anyone else wanting to give a yay or a nay to using it really needs to speak up. Currently still 3 yays to 1 nay.

Yeah, we are going in circles a bit now.
 
And just to note that the sudden desire to get in fight might be an enemy charm messing with us. "Come fight me" would be a quite normal effect for that. It is also what these bitches seem to want making it even more likely.

Though I guess DGP should have caught the essence use... Maybe a vanilla social attack instead?

Probably just Lelouch getting pissed. This kind of thing would trigger a number of things. Like I said, they're the type of noblewomen who his mother had to deal with at court frequently (as I recall, even Clovis thinks his mother is a "brainless old hag"), and generally the type of useless nobles who are much of what Lelouch hates about Britannia. That's two intimacies at work right there. Though if Lelouch has some kind of Malfean influence going that doesn't let him brook defiance on top of those...
 
Probably just Lelouch getting pissed. This kind of thing would trigger a number of things. Like I said, they're the type of noblewomen who his mother had to deal with at court frequently (as I recall, even Clovis thinks his mother is a "brainless old hag"), and generally the type of useless nobles who are much of what Lelouch hates about Britannia. That's two intimacies at work right there. Though if Lelouch has some kind of Malfean influence going that doesn't let him brook defiance on top of those...

Still, these two are definitely picking a fight with us. A social attack from them to support that would make sense. I also feel like they are likely setting up a bit of a one-two punch thing where one of them antagonizes us while the other sets up for something else. Don't know for what though yet. Which is another point against NSIA IMO since that would focus us on one them nearly exclusively.
 
I also feel like they are likely setting up a bit of a one-two punch thing where one of them antagonizes us while the other sets up for something else. Don't know for what though yet. Which is another point against NSIA IMO since that would focus us on one them nearly exclusively.

*sigh* Didn't we just agree we're going in circles?

My response to this is that NSIA doesn't change one's ability to deal with multiple social combatants. While one would be more hated, Lelouch would still retain his capacity to respond to the other one. And hell, focus may not be a bad thing - if things look to be going poorly for Lucinda, Marion may back off and let Lucinda suffer the social consequences.

Though looking over the conversation again, it looks like Marion was contributing to things equally. In which case this might be a relationship where they're fairly equal, so NSIA focus would probably be less useful. It's more useful if we're focusing on a leader with a lackey/minion, than with two equals. Okay, damn. Gonna switch to Nay and just go ahead and throw together a plan. (in the morning though, unless someone breaks the tie and Alexander just goes ahead with NSIA) Frankly I just want to get on with it anyways.
 
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Ok, preliminary plan:

Stunt: These two think they have a poor little Baroness cornered. But they are wrong. They are rank amateurs compared to the vipers in the royal court. "Well of course I know most of what happened in the Middle East, Countess." Your tone is sweet, the venom in it subtle. "My brother Julius often wrote to me praising Princess Cornelia's accomplishments on the battlefield, before he made the ultimate sacrifice for Britannia." A note of pride, of patriotism. YOu see some of the nobles in the peanut gallery raise their glasses in approval. "It's only natural that I would wish to know more about the woman he idolized, but as much of a miracle as it would be to hear from him again he can hardly tell me more from the grave." You say with a hint of sadness, lowering their guards before the metaphorical knife deftly goes in. "But I'd suppose your families go to quite some lengths to make sure you never have worry about such things, don't they?" You twist the knife, opening a wound of horrid truths. They're parasites married to parasites. They've accomplished nothing. That they are guilty of the worst sin a Britannian noble could be perceived of committing. Being weak. That a mere Baroness would dare make such an accusation without fear only makes it more apparent as truth.

For Charms, I would use WTTLD to give Lucinda an auditory hallucination to make it seem like people in the crowd are quietly mocking her behind her back to put her on the backfoot, and use a bit of the Ebon Dragon's Excellency to give us a few extra dice. Maybe two or three.

Thoughts?
 
Regarding NSIA, I wanted to say the only two times I had Lelouch use it I tried to show the effects beyond the merely mechanical standpoint.

It was unsettling. It's supposed to be that way, because it involves changing a fundamental part of yourself.

That said, Lelouch is still in control when using NSIA. He can always push the Revert Button that is releasing the Charm. So I will not penalize you and him (too much), if you decide to use it. I'll make Lelouch act In Character according to the Charm's effects, but he will not forget his original Motivation.
 
Ok, preliminary plan:

Stunt: These two think they have a poor little Baroness cornered. But they are wrong. They are rank amateurs compared to the vipers in the royal court. "Well of course I know most of what happened in the Middle East, Countess." Your tone is sweet, the venom in it subtle. "My brother Julius often wrote to me praising Princess Cornelia's accomplishments on the battlefield, before he made the ultimate sacrifice for Britannia." A note of pride, of patriotism. YOu see some of the nobles in the peanut gallery raise their glasses in approval. "It's only natural that I would wish to know more about the woman he idolized, but as much of a miracle as it would be to hear from him again he can hardly tell me more from the grave." You say with a hint of sadness, lowering their guards before the metaphorical knife deftly goes in. "But I'd suppose your families go to quite some lengths to make sure you never have worry about such things, don't they?" You twist the knife, opening a wound of horrid truths. They're parasites married to parasites. They've accomplished nothing. That they are guilty of the worst sin a Britannian noble could be perceived of committing. Being weak. That a mere Baroness would dare make such an accusation without fear only makes it more apparent as truth.

For Charms, I would use WTTLD to give Lucinda an auditory hallucination to make it seem like people in the crowd are quietly mocking her behind her back to put her on the backfoot, and use a bit of the Ebon Dragon's Excellency to give us a few extra dice. Maybe two or three.

Thoughts?

That should work. It feels a little bit over the top to me with that scenery stuff added, but Exalted so whatever. Maybe remove that second capital letter in "YOu" though.

As for the charms... Well I already agreed that using WTTLD like that sounds like an okay plan. Not sure how much we need the excellency though, those get expensive mote wise. What do you figure our odds for success are here? What about alternatives like channeling a virtue?
 
Ok, gonna post my plan then...

[X] Plan Mocking Whispers

Approach: Use your social acumen and special abilities to win this round of social combat. Make them seem weak, foolish, and lacking in patriotic spirit in front of their fellow nobles.

Stunt: These two think they have a poor little Baroness cornered. But they are wrong. They are rank amateurs compared to the vipers in the royal court. "Well of course I know most of what happened in the Middle East, Countess." Your tone is sweet, the venom in it subtle. "My brother Julius often wrote to me praising Princess Cornelia's accomplishments on the battlefield, before he made the ultimate sacrifice for Britannia." A note of pride, of patriotism. You see some of the nobles in the peanut gallery raise their glasses in approval. "It's only natural that I would wish to know more about the woman he idolized, but as much of a miracle as it would be to hear from him again he can hardly tell me more from the grave." You say with a hint of sadness, lowering their guards before the metaphorical knife deftly goes in. "But I'd suppose your families go to quite some lengths to make sure you never have worry about such things, don't they?" You twist the knife, opening a wound and exposing horrid truths. They're parasites married to parasites. Their lives amounts to nothing of worth. The greatest sin a Britannian noble can be guilty of is being weak, and that a mere Baroness would dare accuse them of it only makes the truth of their deficiencies all the more apparent.

Charms, Etc:
- Use Words That Twist Like Daggers to inflict a Derangement upon whichever of them seems like they'll be more trouble, or Lucinda if that can't be discerned, so as to be put her off balance. She will be given an auditory Hallucination effect, with her hearing mocking whispers from the crowd at her expense, always from someone out of sight. Use 2m.
- Use First Ebon Dragon Excellency to enhance your attack. Use 2m. +2 dice.
- Channel a dot of Conviction. These are the worst types of nobles, and Lelouch will see their reputations suffer for their arrogance. +4 dice.
 
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