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Green Sun, Black Shadows (CG/Exalted)

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Enjou said:
2. Once you're ready, you as Zero will boldly stand on top of the news van as it drives up to the main gain. Inside will be any combat Exalts who volunteer for the job (dressed as Black Knights) and an appropriate number of Black Knights. Your combat capable demons will also be following you dematerialized. When you get close to the bridge you expect you'll be surrounded, and then you will demand to speak with Clovis if he's not already present. From there, you'll convince him to let you through.
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This may be a bit risky if the demons are too close. What if Clovis knows something like Spirit-Detecting Mirror Technique?

Enjou said:
-Stunt: The stolen news van approaches the Britannian forces, with you riding atop it. You are the enigmatic vigilante Zero, and you have ignored all conventions by seemingly making yourself vulnerable to men who might well arrest you. Your chariot comes to a stop, and you confidently flourish your mantle and take a posture that hides all doubt. "Clovis la Brittannia, I am Zero, and I would save the innocents taken hostage by the JLF!"
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Nice incorporation of Oramus' themes in the stunting.
 
landcollector said:
This may be a bit risky if the demons are too close. What if Clovis knows something like Spirit-Detecting Mirror Technique?
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Well, he didn't last time, though that isn't a guarantee of him not having it this time. If we're surrounded though, not having them immediately where they can take action is problematic because even a second or two of heavy fire could kill us. Plus SDMT is activation only, and only works to see a spirit's reflection rather than the spirit itself, so I'm not sure how he'd see anything.

EDIT - On the flip side, him noticing them could be a good thing, at least in the short term. He might hesitate to bring things to a conflict, as his side will take losses immediately, and he might get swarmed by demons as well. Further, him knowing we have demons could instill him with extra confidence that we could rescue the hostages, and he would know that Zero's reputation would hinge on success as well so he could at least view us as a reliable enemy in that case.
 
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Enjou said:
2. Once you're ready, you as Zero will boldly stand on top of the news van as it drives up to the main gain. Inside will be any combat Exalts who volunteer for the job (dressed as Black Knights)
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Please add a requirement of 'if we think they can be sufficiently discreet and patient'. Charging at the enemy lines while screaming at the top of your voice and swinging around a Grand Goremaul is fine in a Shadowland where noone's gonna see, but on live camera where all the world is watching is another story, as is when your enemy has hostages that they'll kill once they see you coming.
 
Gnarker said:
Please add a requirement of 'if we think they can be sufficiently discreet and patient'. Charging at the enemy lines while screaming at the top of your voice and swinging around a Grand Goremaul is fine in a Shadowland where noone's gonna see, but on live camera where all the world is watching is another story, as is when your enemy has hostages that they'll kill once they see you coming.
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Will do. EDIT - Done.
 
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Enjou said:
@Alexander89 - A few questions to help with planning.

1. As best as Kaguya is aware, is Kusakabe a bog standard mortal?
2. Would our cult be able to arrive in the area before us in order to send in their demons to spy? If not, does Kaguya have any other Yozi cults in the area she could contact to do so?
3. By around what time would Lelouch and company arrive?




In canon Lelouch forces Kusakabe and his guards in the same room to commit suicide with his Geass, and when other guards come in to see the ruckus it looks exactly like that they killed themselves out of shame. The hostages are fine after that because Zero is basically in command. What we'd want is a targeted derangement towards the end of getting Kusakabe to off himself, which given that he's likely a normal mortal should be easy enough considering that Words That Twist Like Daggers makes the enhanced Social Attack have Unnatural Mental Influence. Mortals can't spend Willpower to resist UMI, so we'd probably just need to hit him with it a couple times at most.

Worst case is we call in the demons, who we don't even need half of to deal with the number of people in and around Kusakabe's room, so we could send the rest as emergency hostage rescuers. (though we'll also have a few of our combat Exalts working to that end, I think)
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Unfortunately, self termination is outside the bounds of social-fu even with derangement. Unless you're the Ebon Dragon of course.
 
Reckless_Sun said:
Unfortunately, self termination is outside the bounds of social-fu even with derangement. Unless you're the Ebon Dragon of course.
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I believe that's the case if you're trying to use UMI to force it, like directly ordering someone to kill themselves, but it shouldn't be impossible to nudge someone in that direction. All our social attacks are doing here tough is trying to make him feel shame and dishonor, followed by self-loathing. From there we just let the Japanese cultural norms do its thing. This wouldn't work with a different culture where ritual suicide for dishonor wasn't a thing, but we've got some unique circumstances here.
 
Just to be clear on what the 2e manual says in regards to Unacceptable Orders and making someone die by them.

Exalted 2e, Core Rulebook Page 180

The default system assumption is that every character finds ideas that he cannot ("Suicidal despair," "Challenge the Kukla to a duel," "You will fly if you jump off this bridge") unacceptable. It also assumes assumes that these are the only unacceptable orders.* Persuasion can overcome any conscious belief but not the survival instinct. This is sometimes realistic but is explicitly not based on realism. The rule exists to empower persuasion while making sure that characters influence their enemies to do more interesting things than just "die".

*It notes after this exceptions, like Solar Motivations.
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So, generally speaking it's true you can't use social-fu to get someone to die, at least not without a more concerted effort to destroy their sense of self-worth and will to live. But as with all thing in Exalted the GM is the ultimate arbiter of what the rules are, and the rules can be bent, changed, or outright removed, and it's fine so long as the GM is consistent and has good reasons it doesn't affect the fun.

Here I think that getting Kusakabe to kill himself through clever use of social-fu and UMI would be acceptable and interesting. No order to kill himself is given in the plan, but special circumstances make him choosing it a possibility that doesn't normally exist. There are actually up to three social attacks here:

1. Lelouch's speech + UMI -> Kusakabe is convinced he's dishonored the JLF and the Japanese people, playing right into the hands of Britannia. The notion of offing himself is strongly suggested, but still left up to him.
2. Kusakabe hallucinates the ghosts of his ancestors staring at him with shame, disappointment, and anger, should act as a second and totally unexpected social attack -> Kusakabe should be even more convinced of his shame and dishonor. (Or he might freak out. Should be interesting either way.)
3. If Kusakabe hasn't followed through at this point, Lelouch does another social attack to once more call Kusakabe a cowardly wretch + UMI -> Kusakabe feels even more ashamed. Then he sees Zero and gets inflicted with deep self-loathing.

Dishonor and self-loathing in and of itself wouldn't be enough to drive someone to suicide - this would never work on a Britannian, or even people from most other cultures. However, Kusakabe is a member of the JLF, which is inundated with Japanese warrior culture, and seppuku for deep dishonor is part of that. It only has a chance of working because of the culture. (which is also why in canon it was believed by Kusakabe's men that Zero was able to convince him and his guards to off themselves out of shame)

Interestingly enough, it should also be possible for someone to UMI Suzaku into doing something suicidally stupid - this is because it's actually his Motivation to die since he murdered his father. He would refuse any suicide like shooting himself or hanging himself, but anything that might get him killed in battle or saving other people he would readily accept.
 
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