Green Sun, Black Shadows (CG/Exalted)

[X] Enjou


Looks good. On the whole how many categories of guns should there be, I have to agree with guns being a justifiable category, or at best separate the various handguns and two handed firearms. This of course isn't including stun guns or explosive weaponry.
 
2. Key to the Infernal Gates gets us fast travel into Hell, and an emergency escape route in some situations. The condition given is an easy one to work around - just carry a marker.
Sorry about the double post, but I only noticed this part after posting my vote. While it doesn't change anything for me, someone else might be misinformed. The Key does not give fast travel, and I think it was mentioned before.
As a traveler steps through a doorway opened in this way, she may appear to observers to undergo spatial or temporal distortions, seeming to shoot off over the horizon or to bend sickeningly into a spiral shape. However, the traveler herself experiences only the sensation of stepping over a threshold. There appears to be no passage across an endless desert, but as always, it takes five days to reach Malfeas. If First Age savants had any theories, they do not survive into the Time of Tumult to explain just where one goes in the intervening time.
With that being said, I'm going to sleep now.
 
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[X] Enjou

Looks good to me, though I would like to find out about DGP's side-effect in-character soon so we can have an artifact made to nullify it before we accidentally make a Mao of our own.
 
[] Enjou

Looks good to me, though I would like to find out about DGP's side-effect in-character soon so we can have an artifact made to nullify it before we accidentally make a Mao of our own.
Meh, what's the worst that could happen? We hit Kaguya with it?
 
Question: How is it that Charles is Emperor, if he's not Dragonblood?

It's something we need to ponder.

Also, why Lulu didn't know about them, even though he was a member of the royal family.
 
-[X] Weapon Ward (Artifact 2) - Machine Guns


3. Going for a weapon ward against machine guns. It's the most standard mook weapon among soldiers, and we don't want to be gunned down by a mook.
Mooks would probably be carrying battle rifles, carbines, or assault rifles all under the rifle territory, not machineguns.

I mean, there's some very weird mixing here in general with the weapon typing because SMGs shouldn't be grouped with LMGs and HMGs to begin with, but...
 
Question: How is it that Charles is Emperor, if he's not Dragonblood?

It's something we need to ponder.

Also, why Lulu didn't know about them, even though he was a member of the royal family.
For Charles, I'm guessing because of a combination of Sidereal shenanigans because he was Fated to be Emperor, mind-fucking with his Geass, and the traditional method of murdering everyone else who had a claim.

As for why Lulu didn't know, I'd guess because people are usually only told after they Exalt, because they have a better chance of remembering the explanation then, because Arcane Fate isn't messing with their memories.
 
Looks good to me, though I would like to find out about DGP's side-effect in-character soon so we can have an artifact made to nullify it before we accidentally make a Mao of our own.

Normal sunglasses will probably work as long as they count as preventing direct eye contact. Though I suggest the Mao style of sunglasses for the sake of irony.

Meh, what's the worst that could happen? We hit Kaguya with it?

We probably already have. It doesn't seem like any of the others really bothered resisting Beautiful In My Way and Kaguya got right up in our face.

Actually, I think Lemmun is obsessed with us. Thinking on it I find it odd that he'd come to be in our palace to serve us personally. He may have gotten obsessed and decided he just had to serve us.

Question: How is it that Charles is Emperor, if he's not Dragonblood?

It's something we need to ponder.

Also, why Lulu didn't know about them, even though he was a member of the royal family.

Either Charles is a Dragonblooded and he has an allied Geass user with his canon Geass, or he isn't in which case he likely holds the throne because in spite of the fact that he isn't Dragonblooded he still managed to murder his way to the throne through hook and crook, plus a great amount of Geass use. He may well have altered memories of people to think he's a Dragonblooded, and an extremely powerful one at that, so they won't fuck with him.

Lelouch wouldn't likely know just because the Arcane Fate would make him forget if people tried to tell him. They also likely don't want people in on the secret until it's known if they'll Exalt or not.

Mooks would probably be carrying battle rifles, carbines, or assault rifles all under the rifle territory, not machineguns.

I mean, there's some very weird mixing here in general with the weapon typing because SMGs shouldn't be grouped with LMGs and HMGs to begin with, but...

The GM set the category of guns as follows:

Okay, so "guns" can be divided into:
-Rifle
-Machine gun (Submachine gun)
-Pistol (Revolver)
-Rocket Launcher
-Shotgun
-Stun Gun

Though he can tell me if I'm wrong about the Britannian soldier mook weapon falling under machine guns and I'll change accordingly.
 
Wasn't there a three dot artifact that rendered you immune to all mundane attacks? Took the form of a sheath, only worked as long as a weapon was in it?
 
@Alexander89 , I'd like to point out something: There aren't wards against bows, there are wards against arrows. Ergo, your first interpretation, that of the ward working on all guns scaled for a human, would be correct, because it isn't defending against the method of delivery, it's defending against the actual bullet. Therefore, it wouldn't work against ludicrously high calibers, because those would instead be shells, and it wouldn't work on things like tazers or RPGs because those could not possibly be interpreted as bullets.

Would this be a satisfactory reasoning for the return of the Gun Ward (Now the Bullet Ward)? Because sword wards explicitly defend against anything that you could possibly interpret as a sword, and Arrow Wards exist, so there's absolutely no reason for Bullet Wards not to work like that.
 
@Alexander89 , I'd like to point out something: There aren't wards against bows, there are wards against arrows. Ergo, your first interpretation, that of the ward working on all guns scaled for a human, would be correct, because it isn't defending against the method of delivery, it's defending against the actual bullet. Therefore, it wouldn't work against ludicrously high calibers, because those would instead be shells, and it wouldn't work on things like tazers or RPGs because those could not possibly be interpreted as bullets.

Would this be a satisfactory reasoning for the return of the Gun Ward (Now the Bullet Ward)? Because sword wards explicitly defend against anything that you could possibly interpret as a sword, and Arrow Wards exist, so there's absolutely no reason for Bullet Wards not to work like that.

This has been discussed already. Wards against "arrows" or "bullets" aren't valid with the version of Weapon Wards we're using. Conceptually a projectile fired by a weapon such as a bow or a gun are considered part of the weapon here, so a Machine Gun Ward will affect bullets shot by a machine gun.
 
@Enjou I believe most of what you are planing for the Zero costume is good, but don't you think at least the mask is doing too litle ? beyond alowing Beautifull in My Way and maybe Dual Gaze Paradox to bleed trought it doesn't do anything else, could we maybe also add some protectiong from sunlight and/or some social bonuses, perchance an infernalized version of the necklace of solar charisma or something to make it harder to uncover our identity, basicaly as we are a social build with a focus onbeing a war commander I find it strange that we arent ading anything to our panoply that gives bonus to that
 
@Enjou I believe most of what you are planing for the Zero costume is good, but don't you think at least the mask is doing too litle ? beyond alowing Beautifull in My Way and maybe Dual Gaze Paradox to bleed trought it doesn't do anything else, could we maybe also add some protectiong from sunlight and/or some social bonuses, perchance an infernalized version of the necklace of solar charisma or something to make it harder to uncover our identity, basicaly as we are a social build with a focus onbeing a war commander I find it strange that we arent ading anything to our panoply that gives bonus to that

1. Beautiful In My Way builds an intimacy of rapt fascination in those who are affected by it, which should have a positive effect on our social attacks once the intimacy is built.
2. We definitely don't want Dual Gaze Paradox to bleed through, and it shouldn't anyways given you can't make direct eye contact.
3. My goal with the Mask of Zero was largely to create a one dot artifact that let a power that would normally be blocked through, fitting with themes of Oramus. Among those things you've listed there, I think only keeping our identity secret is the most in theme for Oramus. Paradoxically the item would let the fascination effect through from the inside, but somehow still work to actively conceal our identity. The GM has to approve it, though. @Alexander89 - would it be alright to add a one or two dice (external?) penalty to figuring out the wearer's identity to the Mask of Zero along with the fascination bleed through? Would that increase the number of dots of the artifact or the attunement cost?
 
This has been discussed already. Wards against "arrows" or "bullets" aren't valid with the version of Weapon Wards we're using. Conceptually a projectile fired by a weapon such as a bow or a gun are considered part of the weapon here, so a Machine Gun Ward will affect bullets shot by a machine gun.
Where did you say this? (Actually a question, not sarcasm)

Your point of "Guns are different from each other" is flawed because it was pointed out, in the source material, that different kinds of a weapon are still united under the overlying concept of said weapon, and that, in any case where you're confused about whether or not it counts, it counts, because it could conceivably be called that weapon. :V

My point is that, since it explicitly says that different variations of a thing are still that thing, and because a gun is much more specific than "Edged Weapon", guns should count. You can name however many guns you like, but they all work on the same underlying principles, merely with different sizes and shapes. Or are you saying that a knife with serrated edges wouldn't count as a knife, as opposed to a completely smooth blade? Or that the invention of the crossguard separates Swords in the eyes of Cecelyne?

I will listen when you can prove that a pistol and a machine gun are so different from each other that they both couldn't possibly be called guns, if you were to go up to the average person on the street.

Questioner: "Is this a sword?" *Holds up a Falchion*
Random person who is supposed to be representing Enjou: "It's obviously a sword, because edged weapon is too vague and therefore an obtuse answer."
Questioner: "Are these guns?" *Holds up a pistol and an Uzi*
Random Person who is supposed to be representing Enjou: "Don't be absurd! They're not both guns; obviously they are a pistol and a Uzi, and there's no way any idiot could think that gun is an encompassing enough term to describe two machines that work exactly the same way to do exactly the same things to their almost exactly similar ammunition, the difference being that one merely has an extra mechanism to move the firing pin far more rapidly"

My face: :V
 
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Where did you say this? (Actually a question, not sarcasm)

Your point of "Guns are different from each other" is flawed because it was pointed out, in the source material, that different kinds of a weapon are still united under the overlying concept of said weapon, and that, in any case where you're confused about whether or not it counts, it counts, because it could conceivably be called that weapon. :V

My point is that, since it explicitly says that different variations of a thing are still that thing, and because a gun is much more specific than "Edged Weapon", guns should count. You can name however many guns you like, but they all work on the same underlying principles, merely with different sizes and shapes. Or are you saying that a knife with serrated edges wouldn't count as a knife, as opposed to a completely smooth blade? Or that the invention of the crossguard separates Swords in the eyes of Cecelyne?

I will listen when you can prove that a pistol and a machine gun are so different from each other that they both couldn't possibly be called guns, if you were to go up to the average person on the street.

Questioner: "Is this a sword?" *Holds up a Falchion*
Random person who is supposed to be representing Enjou: "It's obviously a sword, because edged weapon is too vague and therefore an obtuse answer."
Questioner: "Are these guns?" *Holds up a pistol and an Uzi*
Random Person who is supposed to be representing Enjou: "Don't be absurd! They're not both guns; obviously they are a pistol and a Uzi, and there's no way any idiot could think that gun is an encompassing enough term to describe two machines that work exactly the same way to do exactly the same things to their almost exactly similar ammunition, the difference being that one merely has an extra mechanism to move the firing pin far more rapidly"

My face: :V

1. See where I quoted the GM nine posts ago, which is a quote from last page. Seriously, this discussion happened once before and has been happening again since the update. He divides gun types into categories.
2. See the description of Weapon Wards in the Infernal Goodies threadmark. It states "Edged weapon wards, projectile wards and harmful-object wards are not legitimate weapon ward types." This is from the Unofficial Errata linked on the last page.

The main issue here is that canon Weapon Wards are rather unbalanced, especially in light of arrow or bullet wards. To deal with this, some weapons get subdivided into further categories, because being able to block every bullet that isn't magic with a two dot artifact is considered grossly overpowered. It might still be overpowered in this version, but the GM is ok with it.

As far as different guns being similar and that the ward should work on any gun, keep in mind that Exalted is a concept based universe - "This categorization of weapon types is metaphysical rather than physical, and the metaphysical is in large part defined by language. (Blame Elloge.)" The metaphysics of the matter state that an assault rifle is sufficiently different from a pistol in terms its concept that the two require different Weapon Wards to block. Think of it like the difference between a sword and a dagger. A sword ward will block a sword but not a dagger, and it really doesn't matter that both are bladed weapons with similar shapes as they are conceptually different enough to the Primordials, the gods, and any other spirits so as to be considered different things metaphysically. Basically, "gun" is considered at the same conceptual level as "bladed weapon", and is too metaphysically vague for a Weapon Ward to work against.
 
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