Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)
- Thread starter DragonParadox
- Start date
- Crossover Fantasy
Goldfish
Friendly Spider-Fish Abomination
- Location
- Formerly of the Far Realm
Need to add that front bracket to your vote so the tally will count it.
Update will be tomorrow, I did not want to cut the voting period short while discussion was ongoing, plus I had a lingering headache today and so I was not sure how writing would work out anyway
[X]Plan Wintersteel Raven
This is a conversation we've had before, I don't think we agreed then either. My source is a YouTube dump you posted a while back in which we're told Uriel might not have known about Justine's infection due to the fact that outsiders are resistant to magical detection.
The gatekeeper having a super cheat doesn't necessarily mean anyone else does if it's a function of position rather than pure power.
1) Her ability to notice things in person is important, but not indispensable. It's been inconvenient at times, but not impossible since most of the places where it matters can be supplemented with other skills.
2) That's a narrow focus on its use case and Molly's abilities. It also ignores the fact that for the most part we're in nearly as much danger wandering Chicago with our allies more than a half hour away as we are if across the country from them when discussing fights against things that actually matter.
Instant travel can be used for a lot more than just showing up to murder hobo.
For example, it'd be very useful if we focused on establishing infrastructure here and in other interesting locations to help us gather information and resources.
Satellite facilities in the relative boonies (like Cleveland) would be much easier to exploit.
We could also use it to transport small items around for a price, since it doesn't strip your equipment to use, or dramatically expand our cyber devil networks and get them into interesting places outside of our immediate reach. Which in turn opens more options for us.
1) If it is it hasn't been called out as such, so it's still a relevant concern. @DragonParadox
do reflexives require us to be aware we need them before a relevant check comes up?
2) I wasn't saying that the charm isn't useful, just pointing out that the rules in play make it less broadly useful than you mentioned.
I'm becoming less certain of it to be honest, but my line of thinking was related to a few factors.
The first is that those two charms are immensely useful in a general sense. Combat has obvious applications, but the strategic impact of the mobility and resource management (through RVD - CSR interactions) is the real critical part.
I don't want to end up stuck with huge portions of our build sunk into stuff meant to handle early situations that scared us.
Setting that aside to focus on our upcoming meetings, another aspect is that I don't really think we can win on pure social abilities alone. Mab's day job includes dealing with high Sidhe with way too much free time, her god tier subordinates of varying loyalty, and external factors like the Yama kings and Dragons.
Stacking advantages is good, but I don't think we can gain an overwhelming edge that way.
Which plays into the next thing. To my mind there are two major categories of factors that go into social combat like this; the actual social abilities of the groups involved and the material context they bring with them.
Right now we seem to basically be focusing on the first and tabling the second as a secondary priority, but it does matter here.
Mab knows a lot, but I doubt she knows that Molly is a rising power in her own right. Just being strong isn't enough to cut it in that regard, so being able to shred vampires isn't the same as being able to run a business/warband staffed by them.
If we want to be treated as more than a bruiser then we need to have established things that show we actually are that we can meaningfully use.
We won't impress Mab with the numbers we can reasonably achieve, but demonstrating the right kind of growth curve and foundation gives us something to work with.
Showing up with multiple installations and satellites full of cyber devils pumping us information from across the world, mortal resources from shell companies set up in various locations*, and possibly the beginnings of cells of minions in multiple spots are all things that would change the context and give us cards to play as we need them.
In a way it's like the difference between being a skilled manager at McDonalds and owning multiple locations across most of a state. Amazon won't be terribly impressed by your bottom line, but they will treat you differently.
Testing what we do with the time may be a significant part of why Mab rescheduled our meeting to something months out from the initial incident. The things we imply with what we take in with us could do as much to set the scene as anything we actually say.
* consider how much easier it would be to get stuff moving if we could pop over to the Cayman Islands and directly drop cyber devils in a banking computer. Or simply dress up using TTC and use social excellencies to convince people to bend the rules for us in various ways.
The first is that those two charms are immensely useful in a general sense. Combat has obvious applications, but the strategic impact of the mobility and resource management (through RVD - CSR interactions) is the real critical part.
I don't want to end up stuck with huge portions of our build sunk into stuff meant to handle early situations that scared us.
Setting that aside to focus on our upcoming meetings, another aspect is that I don't really think we can win on pure social abilities alone. Mab's day job includes dealing with high Sidhe with way too much free time, her god tier subordinates of varying loyalty, and external factors like the Yama kings and Dragons.
Stacking advantages is good, but I don't think we can gain an overwhelming edge that way.
Which plays into the next thing. To my mind there are two major categories of factors that go into social combat like this; the actual social abilities of the groups involved and the material context they bring with them.
Right now we seem to basically be focusing on the first and tabling the second as a secondary priority, but it does matter here.
Mab knows a lot, but I doubt she knows that Molly is a rising power in her own right. Just being strong isn't enough to cut it in that regard, so being able to shred vampires isn't the same as being able to run a business/warband staffed by them.
If we want to be treated as more than a bruiser then we need to have established things that show we actually are that we can meaningfully use.
We won't impress Mab with the numbers we can reasonably achieve, but demonstrating the right kind of growth curve and foundation gives us something to work with.
Showing up with multiple installations and satellites full of cyber devils pumping us information from across the world, mortal resources from shell companies set up in various locations*, and possibly the beginnings of cells of minions in multiple spots are all things that would change the context and give us cards to play as we need them.
In a way it's like the difference between being a skilled manager at McDonalds and owning multiple locations across most of a state. Amazon won't be terribly impressed by your bottom line, but they will treat you differently.
Testing what we do with the time may be a significant part of why Mab rescheduled our meeting to something months out from the initial incident. The things we imply with what we take in with us could do as much to set the scene as anything we actually say.
* consider how much easier it would be to get stuff moving if we could pop over to the Cayman Islands and directly drop cyber devils in a banking computer. Or simply dress up using TTC and use social excellencies to convince people to bend the rules for us in various ways.
Goldfish
Friendly Spider-Fish Abomination
- Location
- Formerly of the Far Realm
This is why I want RVD. It sounds like the next best thing to teleportation, on top of whatever other functionality it has.
Next turn?
Molly Options
Rendered Villain Dispersal: 4xp
Etiquette 5: 4xp
Empathy 5: 4xp
Hellscry Chakra: 8xp
Windborn Stride: 8xp
Sapphire Ritual of Exorcism: 10xp
Technology Excellency 4xp
Running To Forever: 4xp
2nd Ox Body 3xp
Alchemy 1: 4xp
Cyberdevil 3: 3xp
Drive 2: 2xp
Lydia Options
Occult 2: 2xp
Drive 1: 3xp
Willpower 6: 5xp
Jade Talisman 1: 3xp
Familiar 2: 3xp
Command The Dead 3xp
Once we buy our Touch of Frost down to the 2xp version?
I think we'd be fine with just being cool to touch all the time, regardless of the situation.
At least, it stops being such a pressing priority to address.
IIRC, you get a free Alchemy ritual/recipe for each dot you buy.
Im not particularly enthused at the energy drink; I know you want it, but Im much more interested in the wound negator available at 1 dot for Lydia, and the healing potions at 2 dots.
Awareness 2 is probably a suboptimal buy at this point in time. We need Alertness more.
Also, it costs 5xp, when for 8xp we can buy Perception 3 and cover every Perception roll.
Perception 3 + Awareness 1 + Alertness 1 = 8 + 3 + 3 = 14xp
Awareness 3 + Alertness 3 = 9 + 9 = 18xp
So either buy Alertness 1 + Awareness 1 for 6xp, or buy Perception 3 for 8xp.
We dont need Politics atm, if ever, given the fluff. We probably need Law, though, given as we are taking responsibility for the Jade Dogs. How badly we need it depends on whether any of the Dogs has outstanding warrants or legal trouble, if Lydia has legal issues, and if it covers supernatural law like it does in WoD, and not just criminal law and Illnois/Chicago ordinances.
Command the Dead is cheap enough to be worth investing in, and helps her call up impromptu golems on the battlefield if she has the Essence. Anything Lydia cant move easily is of suboptimal value.
They will probably help improve the Dragons Nests security and back up the Jade Dogs, if they are at least trained animal smart.
You forgot finally buying off or down the nightmares, or Charisma to 4 or Perception to 3.
Also, what are your thoughts about the merit I pointed out earlier?
If I read it right, 3 dice for 8xp.
Fair.
It still makes no sense given the known cosmology of the Dresdenverse.
I mean, we're literally in the point where its been demonstrated that Uriel has immediate knowledge of actions by the Denarians, and even when the Archangel Lucifer has acted in the world. But Nemesis is supposed to be unnoticeable?
Yeah I dont find it plausible.
1) Its not cost us anything yet. Thats not really the same thing.
We lost 2 HLs in Cleveland because we couldnt see midcombat. We missed the malk packs altogether, even with warning.
We lacked the ability to scan the shadows for more Rampires after Blanc showed up.
The warning signs are there.
2)No we arent.
Ever since we got Flight, it gave us the ability to disengage at will in most combat scenarios above ground; we just go vertical.
Thats why I pushed so hard for it; three dimensions is a tactical gamechanger in the Dresdenverse.
3) None of that is relevant now, or even in the next two months.
We arent even done establishing local infrastructure in Chicago and firming that up. We certainly dont have the Resources or local connections in other cities.
I certainly wouldnt advocate Cleveland, right now.
Not after trashing a Fomor base, and knowing they have access to the local area.
And for access to interesting places for cyberdevil implantation, we need Electric Caress.
Because most of those are now electronic doors. But we havent even taken advantage of the satellites we can see in the sky from the Adler Planetarium for a year-long ticket of $65.
-Not for next turn IMO. Later maybe.
- I am not convinced it works for Molly's build.
Lydia is a polyglot at 16 who has been travelling all her life.
Molls is a weeb who, besides English, only learned some Latin and Japanese in canon after most of a decade of magical education.
And right now, she has cyberdevils to help with translation.
My two cents.
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Flight is great if your enemies have no ranged attacks. Going airborne in the modern world means being out of cover, and taking every bullet your enemies have, and winding up dead.
1)Most Dresdenverse combatants have no ranged attacks.
2)Hitting a moving target going up at 11 yards/second is a nontrivial task; hitting an aerial one is even harder. 10 seconds and she is 110 yards away.
3)Molly with her current loadout will average 12 Soak (Base 3 + Ebon Scales 1 + VLE 5 + Steel Skin 2) with Scar Writ Saga active.
4)Molly took a full mag of AR fire to the chest and walked it off, way back in Arc 1 when she had only 4 Soak.
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Yzarc
The Spark of Madness
While I do want it,
All Things Betray (••)
The Exalt's habitual distrust makes her senses supernaturally keen and her sense for danger keener still.
Given how much Dragonparadox likes to incorporate fluff and even over mechanics, are we sure we want Molly to be a paranoid person who distrusts everything?
All Things Betray (••)
The Exalt's habitual distrust makes her senses supernaturally keen and her sense for danger keener still.
Given how much Dragonparadox likes to incorporate fluff and even over mechanics, are we sure we want Molly to be a paranoid person who distrusts everything?
I am really sorry to bother you, but could you clarify if we can obtain familiar background for Lydia via in-story effort, for example by using the crown to find an orphan golden crow egg, or looking for Mouse's litter mates (or some other temple dog)? Do we need to spend XP on this?
You can get familiars in play, though getting one that is particularly esoteric would be proportionally difficult.
OK Vote closed
We definitely want to move Alchemy up there, and make it Alchemy 2, unless some order of cauldron member or Harry can make no-sleep potion. We need more AP rather badly. Command the Dead should be moved up too - with dead plant matter (ie wood) being allowed to be animated, way too many options become available. Incidentally, Michael's mundane profession becomes relevant, as he might be commissioned to make stuff like carved wooden soldiers, or, hell, making the Luggage. In fact, Lydia could probably do a very mean Susan Sto Helit cosplay. I wonder if that's intentional.
In preparation for Mab, I fully think that we should discard Drive, Cyberdevil 3, 2nd Ox Body, Windborn Stride from the current list of priorities. Technology excellency has to stay due to our obligations to remake the Dragon's Nest.
Thanks!
And with that, I urge people to reconsider buying the familiar, and instead spend an action point on acquiring one. There are probably raven descendants of Badb who might well recognize Lydia as kin. Or a Nachtkrapp. Or some native american crow / raven. Or, best of the possible ones, a golden crow. And we could easily use the crown to initiate the quest. LIke use a random crow, or a book with crow myths to ask for "the location of the closest orphan magical raven / crow egg".
Fairly sure that this is from the wrong threadmark. There were many more votes.
- Location
- Germany
No we don't.
It doesn't matter how much we get done in a specific amount of time, we are under no particular pressure to achieve lots of things in a short timeframe.
And it won't speed up DP's writing either, so each week will take even longer OOC than it does already.
Cramming too many actions in a turn is poison when it comes to time-advancement.
I want to see the things that happen over the next few books, barring those that are prevented by our mere presence.
Yes, we are. It's called "Meeting Mab is on Halloween, we need to be as prepared as possible".
So... it looks like debate is ongoing and I just dropped a statement that is relevant to voting.
All things considered I think it would be fairest to leave the vote open and cover an interlude.
Vote is Still Open
All things considered I think it would be fairest to leave the vote open and cover an interlude.
Vote is Still Open
- Location
- Germany
I disagree.
I don't know what you want to get out of that talk, but I don't particularly care about it or think we need much higher stats.
I want to get out of it without "Enemy: Winter" background, and without obligations to Mab. Ideally, we want Winter to be at least neutral to Lydia too. Super-ideally, we want Winter as allies. Critically, we don't want to be obligated (indebted) to Mab. Mab's "best with no prep" social is 20 dice. WIth prep, and if she's smart (and she's smart), it's likely to be somewhere close to 30 dice with difficulty adjusters. She has things to tempt us with, like her supposed knowledge of our exaltation, Dresden's debt, Lydia's father's situation, etc. Don't underestimate her.
And it was my understanding that most of the thread was actually quite paranoid about her and the upcoming meeting. At least this was the major argument in the previous round of XP spending voting, which is why I was surprised that the votes went as they did now.
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- Location
- Germany
Worst case spend WP to ignore her and interrupt talks.
I'm fine with having Winter as a low-key enemy, more foes, more fun.
fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
Mostly I am upset that none of the things winning are things that I care about or find exciting. Nothing is a game changer like pervious upgrades have been. Just numbers go up.
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Arc 4 Interlude 1: When Heroes Wear Black Hats
When Heroes Wear Black Hats
28th of August 2006 A.D.
Alicia Carpenter was in a pickle. That in itself was nothing new, she was familiar enough with pickles that you might as well season her with dill and add her to a jar if vinegar, but this one went deeper than usual.
It had all started in the spring when she had caught a bunch of asshole eight graders graders ruining Jane Brown's English homework. Now she did not really know Jane all that well, but she was a year younger than Alicia and a kid so quiet you would forget she was in the room with you, wouldn't even ask you to pick up a pencil for her if it rolled off the desk. Given what he had been going through all year Alicia couldn't blame her. It was easy to pick on the quiet kid, easier still to pick on the 'dumb' kid and so that is what a bunch of the girls in her class did. According to mom their cruel 'jokes' were a way to ingratiate themselves with the popular kids, maybe even to keep themselves out of the line of fire. Alicia didn't care... she really didn't care and she had the three day suspension for fighting in school to prove it.
Once she got to know the younger girl it quickly became clear that the reason Jane was struggling in school was that she was struggling to even read the instructions half the times, never mind the assigned works in English, she was dyslexic... and her family didn't believe her when, at Alicia's suggestion, she tried to tell them. In fact they did not seem to 'hold with that nonsense' in general , by which they meant the practice of modern psychology. When she heard that one Alicia had been morbidly curious if they applied the same principle to all other fields of medicine. Maybe they thought leeches were a good cure for fever.
Telling the teachers and the school nurse about it had been useless, Jane didn't have any documentation or even a parent to back her up, she was just the slow kid and 'maybe Saint Agnes wasn't the place for her'. The way people delivered that line like they were being kind when what they really wanted to say 'we don't want to bother with you anymore' just made Alicia want to scream.
So she had done her best to tutor her friend and Jane had given it her all, but there was only so much you could do to salvage someone's grades starting so late in the year and with many of the teachers already giving up on her. There were some online resources for dealing with dyslexia and maybe if they had more time they could have made progress there as well, doctor or no, but between all those problems and the assholes trying to get Jane to fail for a laugh it just wasn't enough. If only Jasne had gotten a 83 and not a 63 in that last make-up English test.
Well what if she had?
It wasn't really the bad kind of hacking if you were doing it to fix an injustice right?
People were really bad about remembering passwords as it turned out and they had this tendency to just save them all over the place, password user name. Just like that she was in, deeper and deeper. It was simplest thing in the world to install a keylogger to mine for yet more data until she could get into the student records with the right authorization to change the grade enough that Jane wasn't failing English.
Then, today as she was wiping out her traces, making sure there wasn't any trace of an unauthorized program on school computers for either the school to find or other less well intentioned souls to exploit Alicia found another note on the principal's computer, a reminder for the start of the year... to check the log in tracker. And she couldn't find it.
With the fact that she had been accessing school network remotely at odd hours if someone could find the unauthorized access times they might be able to trace her, the girl feared The IP is hidden behind proxies, don't panic, even if they know someone changed the grade they won't know who, she told herself. And it was true as far as it went, but they would change the grade and Jane would not be able to come back after all. Worse she would be known as a cheater.
She set her hands on her temples and thought. I could fake a wider attack, scramble more records to bury the lead. There has to be a paper record of this stuff somewhere and it would already include the alteration to Jane's grade she made before school was out and the grade averages were worked out.
But what if there isn't though?
This could do a lot of damage and there would be an investigation into it, a proper one. Did she trust her IP protections that much? Was Jane staying on worth the potential damage?
As she was wrestling with the questions 'you've got mail' suddenly rang in the speakers, which was really weird since Alicia had turned that annoying thing off ages ago. What was even weirder was the contents of the message:
"Info. Smith, Key Claimer, Blood of the Namer, here is the path of fewest cycles you seek."
What followed was a list of dry instructions on how to find the log in tracker and deal with the incriminating data signed simply: Clippy.
OOC: I would not blame anyone for thinking Middle School kid being able to gain full control of a school network is unrealistic, but what can I say... reality is unrealistic.
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