Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

Prospalz · Jan 2, 2023

SCO said:
Invulnerable skin of bronze is cool but worth 10 xp, nope.

If you having nothing else of particular importance to buy and already stacked a bunch of soak, it is good. Soak gets better if you have a lot of it.

...It also has a benefit of being, more or less, incremental increase in survivability. It doesn't require DP to sharply escalate the threats he is throwing at us.

As opposed to, IDK, Open Eye of the Hurricane which makes Molly effectively invincible for Essence + 1 turns against anything that isn't considered to be a legitimate heavy hitter, in-universe.

Yog · Jan 2, 2023

So, it occurs to me - why aren't we solving missing persons crimes in our downtime? Like, browse photos of missing persons, and use the Crown on each of them, asking "how to find this person, or their body in case they are dead?". Then filter the information to Murphy through Dresden. Would take us half an hour in the evening.

Goldfish · Jan 2, 2023

Yog said:
So, it occurs to me - why aren't we solving missing persons crimes in our downtime? Like, browse photos of missing persons, and use the Crown on each of them, asking "how to find this person, or their body in case they are dead?". Then filter the information to Murphy through Dresden. Would take us half an hour in the evening.

I like this idea.

BronzeTongue · Jan 2, 2023

Yog said:
... No it doesn't? This is why I specified using either a meeting place or one of the members as a focus.

One of those still burns a really convenient focus, but fair enough on the member option. My bad there.

That said, it still seems like a waste of a question. We shouldn't hoard them so completely they never see use, but if we do take stabs like that they should be done in a way that gives us the greatest possible information. Preferably information we can't reasonably acquire other ways.

Asking for the people targeting members of the ordo would give us everything your question does and a significant amount of other actionable information that we might not otherwise even know to ask about until someone is attacked.

Yog · Jan 2, 2023

BronzeTongue said:
Asking for the people targeting members of the ordo would give us everything your question does and a significant amount of other actionable information that we might not otherwise even know to ask about until someone is attacked.

Oh, that's probably a good idea too. But they are different ideas. By askiing "who works / spies for other organizations" we get the list which we could then use for further question (i.e. we learn that Olivia works for someone supernatural. We then visit her at some further time, and use one of her things, like a photo, to ask "who does she work for". And the answer is better be "the Maiden of Secrets", and not "the Order of Blackened Denarius"). It's a springboard question that sets the further questions needed to vet the members of the Order for security reasons. We need to know who to check.

"Who targets the order members with hostile intent?" is also a very important question. It gives us identities of beings who would see our new minions (well, order mates, but, really, we are a celestial exalt, and they are mortals, it's only a matter of time) harmed. We could then presumably use other means to find at least some of those, and maybe use them to locate others. It's a different type of security. Internal vs. external.

BronzeTongue · Jan 2, 2023

Yog said:
Oh, that's probably a good idea too. But they are different ideas. By askiing "who works / spies for other organizations" we get the list which we could then use for further question (i.e. we learn that Olivia works for someone supernatural. We then visit her at some further time, and use one of her things, like a photo, to ask "who does she work for". And the answer is better be "the Maiden of Secrets", and not "the Order of Blackened Denarius"). It's a springboard question that sets the further questions needed to vet the members of the Order for security reasons. We need to know who to check.

"Who targets the order members with hostile intent?" is also a very important question. It gives us identities of beings who would see our new minions (well, order mates, but, really, we are a celestial exalt, and they are mortals, it's only a matter of time) harmed. We could then presumably use other means to find at least some of those, and maybe use them to locate others. It's a different type of security. Internal vs. external.

There is some distinction, but the phrasing I used was intentional.

Recruiting people by necessity involves targeting them, and usually isn't intended to end well for the poor fool they're playing. Even if whatever they're doing isn't hostile to the hypothetical traitor directly, the most likely case is that it would involve something that effects other members.

The edges cases we'd be missing would have to be relationships started by happenstance that have no ill intent towards members of the ordo. Which is a pretty narrow condition to meet.

uju32 · Jan 2, 2023

Prospalz said:
Apropos of nothing, I figured out what is up with positively microscopic Terrestrial-Dragonblooded essence pools.
They are allowed to use Jade Talismans for the purpose of essence storage; reusable mana potions, essentially.

Yeah.
Thats why Jade Talisman is one of her most important Backgrounds.

Yog said:
So, it occurs to me - why aren't we solving missing persons crimes in our downtime? Like, browse photos of missing persons, and use the Crown on each of them, asking "how to find this person, or their body in case they are dead?". Then filter the information to Murphy through Dresden. Would take us half an hour in the evening.

1)Because we arent actually short of shit to do IC and OOC.

2)Because cops are trained to be suspicious, and at least some are competent investigators.
A steady succession of solved missing persons cases, especially if they are dead missing persons, will raise the question of how we know this to be true if we're not the perpetrator(s) or linked to the perpetrator(s).

Using Dresden as a cutout wont help. While Murphy is Dresden's friend, Murphy is known to be Dresden's friend.
Anyone who got suspicious and started poking around Dresden's life is either not going to tell her, or will tell her and order her to stay away from the investigation.

Yog · Jan 2, 2023

uju32 said:
2)Because cops are trained to be suspicious, and at least some are competent investigators.
A steady succession of solved missing persons cases, especially if they are dead missing persons, will raise the question of how we know this to be true if we're not the perpetrator(s) or linked to the perpetrator(s).

Using Dresden as a cutout wont help. While Murphy is Dresden's friend, Murphy is known to be Dresden's friend.
Anyone who got suspicious and started poking around Dresden's life is either not going to tell her, or will tell her and order her to stay away from the investigation.

That one is way too easily solved to even be considered a problem. Anonymous tips, using cops in the know (like Murphy) to filter the information in with the "psychic talent" cover up if needed, using minions to deliver the messages, hell, sending e-mails through cyberdemons using fake accounts are all possible.

As to having too much to do - I strongly disagree. We aren't running out of essence in the evening (barring 2 or 3 dots for emergencies), so we aren't using all of what we have.

uju32 · Jan 2, 2023

Yog said:
That one is way too easily solved to even be considered a problem. Anonymous tips, using cops in the know (like Murphy) to filter the information in with the "psychic talent" cover up if needed, using minions to deliver the messages, hell, sending e-mails through cyberdemons using fake accounts are all possible.

As to having too much to do - I strongly disagree. We aren't running out of essence in the evening (barring 2 or 3 dots for emergencies), so we aren't using all of what we have.

1)You asked why we werent using the Murphy-Dresden pipeline.
I told you why we shouldnt be.

2) How many anonymous tips get missed or ignored or not followed up on regularly in a metropolitan police force?
Believe it or not, police forces receive lots of anonymous tips.

How many follow ups are done shoddily, like the dude who escaped from a serial killer and got handed back to him by the cops?
What minions are you about to make persons of interest for the police by using them as cutouts?
What cops in the know does Molly even know?

You tend to assume NPCs have no agency, or that stuff works, and that there are no consequences to action.
Im much more pessimistic.

3)Literally one scene can burn through half our current Essence pool.
The idea that we should be comfortable with a pool of around 2-3 Essence routinely is something I strongly disagree with.

4)Molly is a teenager and an Exalt.
She has a life to lead. Those blocks of time that arent explicitly partitioned out to mechanical stuff arent being wasted, she is actually spending them on stuff relevant to being a teenager with a family and a life.

This would not be free. It would require AP and signififcant investment of effort for any results.And we already have a shitton of stuff to get around to address. You cant just keep signing her up for literally everything that crosses her path and assume she will somehow find time and resources to do them.

5) The national missing persons database records hundreds of thousands of missing persons every year; as of today, estimates are more than 600,000 yearly. Estimates are that any given day, there are at least 90,000 people outstanding.

Each year, over 600,000 individuals go missing in the United States. Fortunately, many missing children and adults are quickly found, alive and well. However, tens of thousands of individuals remain missing for more than a year – what many agencies consider "cold cases". On any given day in the United States, there are approximately 90,000 active missing person cases in the National Crime Information Center (NCIC).

Frequently Asked Questions

View answers to frequently asked questions about the National Missing and Unidentified Persons System (NamUs).

namus.nij.ojp.gov

Assuming distribution is proportional to US population, the Chicago metro area with its ~10 million people would account for around 3000 of those daily outstanding reports. Chicago alone with its three million would account for a thousand.
Thats outright impossible to do with the Crown.

BronzeTongue · Jan 2, 2023

Yog said:
That one is way too easily solved to even be considered a problem. Anonymous tips, using cops in the know (like Murphy) to filter the information in with the "psychic talent" cover up if needed, using minions to deliver the messages, hell, sending e-mails through cyberdemons using fake accounts are all possible.

As to having too much to do - I strongly disagree. We aren't running out of essence in the evening (barring 2 or 3 dots for emergencies), so we aren't using all of what we have.

We could be doing a lot of stuff, and it's hard to say one is better than another just because it sounds good at the time.

For example: why aren't we cooking feasts for the homeless, or playing Batman against the supernatural predators of the world every night? How about manufacturing ritual items for the council's war against the red court?

We could do more, but I think it makes sense on a human level for Molly to take some time for herself rather than living wholly for others.

It's also important to established well enough to handle the blow back from making noise.

Right now we've got direct fodder minions, some initial supernatural contacts, and the resources to start building a resource network in the mortal world. The more of that we transform from potential to useful infrastructure the more we can actually do.

If we just do whatever sounds nice at the time we run the risk of making a mess via blind flailing, causing more harm to ourselves and others than we prevented.

afterthought53 · Jan 2, 2023

[X] Show her fiance her magic

Yog · Jan 2, 2023

uju32 said:
2) How many anonymous tips get missed or ignored or not followed up on regularly in a metropolitan police force?
Believe it or not, police forces receive lots of anonymous tips.

How many follow ups are done shoddily, like the dude who escaped from a serial killer and got handed back to him by the cops?
What minions are you about to make persons of interest for the police by using them as cutouts?
What cops in the know does Molly even know?

You tend to assume NPCs have no agency, or that stuff works, and that there are no consequences to action.
Im much more pessimistic.

Even if one in ten of our tips gets acted on (and we could probably ensure more through backchannels, such as for example by having father Forthil help arrange the whole thing), it's still more than zero. That's a net benefit, measured in lives saved, for essentially no effort.

uju32 said:
It would require AP and signififcant investment of effort for any results.

I strongly disagree. Something that takes half an hour in the evening shouldn't cost a full action point.

uju32 said:
5) The national missing persons database records hundreds of thousands of missing persons every year; as of today, estimates are more than 600,000 yearly. Estimates are that any given day, there are at least 90,000 people outstanding.

Frequently Asked Questions

View answers to frequently asked questions about the National Missing and Unidentified Persons System (NamUs).

namus.nij.ojp.gov

Assuming distribution is proportional to US population, the Chicago metro area with its ~10 million people would account for around 3000 of those daily outstanding reports. Chicago alone with its three million would account for a thousand.
Thats outright impossible to do with the Crown.

Any one person saved with the use of a crown is a person that wouldn't get saved without the use of the crown. How is "we can't save everyone" an argument against saving someone?

BronzeTongue · Jan 2, 2023

Yog said:
Even if one in ten of our tips gets acted on (and we could probably ensure more through backchannels, such as for example by having father Forthil help arrange the whole thing), it's still more than zero. That's a net benefit, measured in lives saved, for essentially no effort.

I strongly disagree. Something that takes half an hour in the evening shouldn't cost a full action point.

Any one person saved with the use of a crown is a person that wouldn't get saved without the use of the crown. How is "we can't save everyone" an argument against saving someone?

If we do this we should make it a more comprehensive operation.

Set up a cutout PI business simulated by cyber devils and then solve cold cases/low priority cases for free as a charitable tax write off and advertisement. Similar to how many law firms operate.

Once we have the jade dogs set up with new IDs we can use them as staff too. To sell the illusion better and give them an excuse for wandering around doing stuff for us.

Our goal is just to help, but doing it this way would give us an immediate motive for the cynical to latch onto.

If we lean into it and get them some training we could get our minions to actually pre sort and look into cases for us, giving us the context to stretch our questions as far as possible.

If it goes well we could even expand it as a front and run other business through it.

Though now that I've laid that out it does make me concerned that anything we try here will hint at the crown. So it's worth considering what else we'd need to do to make it safe before starting.

fictionfan · Jan 2, 2023

If Murphy could solve every missing person case in Chicago that should go a long way to restoring her reputation in the police force.

Goldfish · Jan 2, 2023

fictionfan said:
If Murphy could solve every missing person case in Chicago that should go a long way to restoring her reputation in the police force.

No, it would just start a new mess for her to deal with. There is no way she could plausibly have that sort of information. She would come under so much scrutiny from the authorities and press, and probably a whole gaggle of other entities, only some of them governmental, that she would never be able to continue as a police officer.

Better to compile the information and use Cyber-Devil minions to make sure it gets to the right people at the right time to make the greatest difference.

Yog · Jan 2, 2023

BronzeTongue said:
If we do this we should make it a more comprehensive operation.

Set up a cutout PI business simulated by cyber devils and then solve cold cases/low priority cases for free as a charitable tax write off and advertisement. Similar to how many law firms operate.

Once we have the jade dogs set up with new IDs we can use them as staff too. To sell the illusion better and give them an excuse for wandering around doing stuff for us.

Our goal is just to help, but doing it this way would give us an immediate motive for the cynical to latch onto.

If we lean into it and get them some training we could get our minions to actually pre sort and look into cases for us, giving us the context to stretch our questions as far as possible.

If it goes well we could even expand it as a front and run other business through it.

Though now that I've laid that out it does make me concerned that anything we try here will hint at the crown. So it's worth considering what else we'd need to do to make it safe before starting.

Hmm... A detective agency could be an interesting idea of how to reward Dresden without triggering his "I don't take charity" senses. Invest into expanding his mundane(-ish) job, by starting the full-on "Dresden Detectives" agency. Send some ghouls and minor practitioners with relevant talents there.

fictionfan · Jan 2, 2023

I am really warming up to this detective agency idea. It seems like a great way to do good, launder money and employ cultists* all at the same time.

Also in the process of tracking down all the missing person cases we will likely be able to deal with most of the supernatural predators in the city. Most of them are likely to just start leaving when it becomes clear how good we are at tracking down victims.

But don't call it Dresden Detectives. That has some unfortunate baggage and I don't think that he wants to incorporate. Also we need to agency to work for Molly for MIS reasons. Still it should help Dresden in making it so he can off load a lot of his case work. No more is he forced to do 3 cases at once well getting more and more beat up and on a time limit.

*Catch all term. I expect that we are going to get many followers in the future with similar problems as the Jade dogs.

uju32 · Jan 2, 2023

Yog said:
Even if one in ten of our tips gets acted on (and we could probably ensure more through backchannels, such as for example by having father Forthil help arrange the whole thing), it's still more than zero. That's a net benefit, measured in lives saved, for essentially no effort.

Yog said:
I strongly disagree. Something that takes half an hour in the evening shouldn't cost a full action point.

Who says it would take half an hour?
You are drastically underestimating the effort involved in

Acquiring missing person's reports in a timely manner (missing person reports to the police are not public knowledge),
Figuring out which are actually the result of foulplay instead of, say, someone leaving town. Or a family dispute over children
Making sure we dont give away the Crown
Laundering the results of any findings into something plausible to vanillas
AND ensuring the police or a relevant body actually take action.

Fabricating 50k worth of diamonds took us a couple hours in the afternoon to forge and cut.
It still took us 1 AP and a couple days to process, even with Lydia's connections smoothing our way.
Indeed, if Lydia hadnt essentially advanced us a loan, it would have taken more time.

The idea that setting up a missing person or body finding service is going to be free doesnt pass the small test.

Yog said:
Any one person saved with the use of a crown is a person that wouldn't get saved without the use of the crown. How is "we can't save everyone" an argument against saving someone?

Literally an argument that can be made to support anything.
Why arent we out there playing Batman on the rooftops. Why arent we out there attending to homeless and addicts.
After all, if we only save one life...

The answer is always the same: The results to effort yield has to be worth the trouble.
The Consequences have to be expected and manageable.
Any Celestial Exalt has a ton of options clamoring for their time and attention.

fictionfan said:
If Murphy could solve every missing person case in Chicago that should go a long way to restoring her reputation in the police force.

I've addressed this, and @Goldfish just did as well.
How does she explain suddenly managing this marvellous feat? Law enforcement are supposed to look gift horses in the mouth.

Seriously, Im surprised and appalled at people who I assume have read the books and this quest automatically assuming that law enforcement is always the friend of someone involved in the magical community.

Before Dresden became Murphy's friend, she almost got him killed in Storm Front by attempting to arrest him when Sells was trying to kill him, for not talking to her. She DID have him arrested in Full Moon, after punching him in the face and gut, and he had to go on the lam for the rest of the book. The other bad guys in that same book were FBI.

Rudolph the Brown Nosed Reindeer had Dresden's home invaded by an FBI SWAT team in Changes under false pretences.
Setting him up to be shot by a sniper getting out of Chicago FBI headquarters. He survived because he was wearing the duster.
Rudolph suffered no consequences.

Molly herself had the late Lt Greene and an FBI agent attempt to interrogate her without parents or lawyer present while a minor in the immediate aftermath of one of the Splattercon attacks.
This happened in Proven Guilty, so from Molly's perspective, barely a couple weeks ago.

Do you forget its only been a couple weeks since Dresden was arrested for murder based on video footage some FBI agents knew to be faked? And thats not counting for things like when key elements of a police department are wholly owned subsidairies of some entity or the other. Like the Red Court taking over chunks of the Cleveland PD.

Why assume law enforcement will believe in the purity of our heart and purpose?

fictionfan said:
Still it should help Dresden in making it so he can off load a lot of his case work. No more is he forced to do 3 cases at once well getting more and more beat up and on a time limit.

Dresden is a private detective.
He DOESNT have a case load. He doesnt do 3 cases at once.
These scenarios you are building bear no palpable resemblance to the Harry Dresden of the books.

uju32 · Jan 2, 2023

Yog said:
Hmm... A detective agency could be an interesting idea of how to reward Dresden without triggering his "I don't take charity" senses. Invest into expanding his mundane(-ish) job, by starting the full-on "Dresden Detectives" agency. Send some ghouls and minor practitioners with relevant talents there.

Never attempt to make lifestyle decisions for other people.
Molly blew up when her mother attempted to it for her at 16. The idea that a 30-something year old man stubborn enough to deny Nicodemus, deny Lea, deny Mab is going to tolerate us deciding to optimize his life is hilarious.

There are things we can hope to reasonably guilt or finesse him into. Money, a car, possibly magical equipment upgrades
Thats not one of them.
Nor should we try.

DragonParadox · Jan 2, 2023

Vote closed. Let's see what the turn end looks like.

Adhoc vote count started by DragonParadox on Jan 2, 2023 at 4:21 PM, finished with 109 posts and 16 votes.

6 people have voted
[X] Show her fiance her magic
- Alratan
- BronzeTongue
- uju32
- Azais
- Yzarc
- afterthought53
3 people have voted
[X] Show her fiance her magic
-[X] If children become a thing, they are might inherit magic.
-[X] If she wants a smaller-scale demonstration, you can provide some obvious magic
-[X] Offer to make her the bridal dress, and the cake. You have all the tools.
- Yog
- Goldfish
- Arhin
3 people have voted
[X] Show her fiance her magic
-[X] Too many secrets do erode trust. Yes, he might take it badly, but better to find out before any vows are sworn than after.
- LightLan
- Ogoobu
- 恐Drake
1 people have voted
[X] Show her fiance her magic
-[X] Well, we've just met and I've not spoken to Alex so my perspective can not be well informed on the specifics of your life. But. Yes, tell him. Putting aside the idea of entering a marriage where one is actively choosing to deceive their partner about an aspect of their life, you are also a part of a group which has magic as a shared feature. The stress and effort of having to keep up a web of small lies for the rest of your life is not worth it. You probably don't have to show him weather magic, same way you don't have to show us: Just ask someone else in the order to show him something he'd deem physically impossible and your 'weather alteration is big and noticeable' explanation should suffice.
- BeepSmile
1 people have voted
[X] Show her fiance her magic
-[X] If children become a thing, they are likely to inherit magic.
- drake_azathoth
1 people have voted
[X] Show her fiance her magic
-[X] Too many secrets do erode trust. Yes, he might take it badly, but better to find out before any vows are sworn than after.
-[X] If children become a thing, they are might inherit magic.
-[X] If she wants a smaller-scale demonstration, you can provide some obvious magic
-[X] Offer to make her the bridal dress, and the cake. You have all the tools.
- TonedMite
1 people have voted
[X] Show her fiance her magic
-[x]Have the cyber devils give her access to a weather website. Don't explain why the computer doesn't fry in the presence of high magic.
- fictionfan

Yog · Jan 2, 2023

uju32 said:
Acquiring missing person's reports in a timely manner (missing person reports to the police are not public knowledge),

USA has a upblically available missing persons database. It's not yet available, but will be next year in-game, according to the wikipedia history page.

uju32 said:
Figuring out which are actually the result of foulplay instead of, say, someone leaving town. Or a family dispute over children

While that would increase the efficiency, it's not actually needed. We can just select cases at random, and we'd still be doing a good job. Hell, get Michael to select the cases - milk those mysterious ways.

uju32 said:
Laundering the results of any findings into something plausible to vanillas

AND ensuring the police or a relevant body actually take action.

Anonymous tips.

uju32 said:
Fabricating 50k worth of diamonds took us a couple hours in the afternoon to forge and cut.
It still took us 1 AP and a couple days to process, even with Lydia's connections smoothing our way.
Indeed, if Lydia hadnt essentially advanced us a loan, it would have taken more time.

Yes, setup will probably cost as AP. Afterwards? When everything is worked out? No, I don't think it'll be costly.

uju32 said:
The answer is always the same: The results to effort yield has to be worth the trouble.
The Consequences have to be expected and manageable.
Any Celestial Exalt has a ton of options clamoring for their time and attention.

This argument can literally be made in opposition to everything. No full list of consequences can ever be known. This way lies decision paralysis.

BronzeTongue · Jan 2, 2023

Yog said:
Hmm... A detective agency could be an interesting idea of how to reward Dresden without triggering his "I don't take charity" senses. Invest into expanding his mundane(-ish) job, by starting the full-on "Dresden Detectives" agency. Send some ghouls and minor practitioners with relevant talents there.

We'd probably need to side load it rather trying to directly invest in his one person business.

First have the cyber devils set up and LLC to run it through, then set up fake identities for them and the interest jade dogs to use. Figure out our security mechanisms for the crown, how we'll mask the finances, how obvious Molly's personal involvement will be, stuff like that.

Then hire him to consult on training and organizing the place on the side in small but ever increasing chunks.

Eventually he'd get comfortable and attached, then end up running the place to his own benefit without even realizing it until after it's happened. Habit is a powerful motivator for him, so once he's familiar with the people and has some inertia behind him he's unlikely to willingly leave.

Harry has a lot more in common with Mister than Mouse in this regard; pushing him is less effective than just setting things up so he wanders in and settles down himself.

uju32 · Jan 2, 2023

Yog said:
USA has a upblically available missing persons database. It's not yet available, but will be next year in-game, according to the wikipedia history page.

Now it is.
That database is updated at roughly two or three months delay, if I am reading it right.
So again, its not a timely source of information.

Yog said:
While that would increase the efficiency, it's not actually needed. We can just select cases at random, and we'd still be doing a good job. Hell, get Michael to select the cases - milk those mysterious ways.

Michael does mysterious ways when he's on the job.
Dont attempt to cheese the local Creator deity. It might irritate him.
We can find a lot better ways to spend our time and AP than randomly checking cases.

Yog said:
Anonymous tips.

Go in the trash, a lot of them.
Because outside of highprofile cases wnere there is pressure to invest outsize resources and follow every lead, anonymous tips arent considered to be that reliable. And to be honest, a lot of cops are kinda shit at their jobs.

Especially in Chicago. CPD has a reputation IRL. And its not very pretty.

We've spent the last five years hearing reports of police misconduct and misbehavior.
There's police departments with literally thousands of unprocessed rape kits, hard physical evidence of a crime; Illnois had at least 3,000 in 2002, and the number kept growing until at least the 2010s; only got cleared around 2020ish.

Ensuring actionable information isnt ignored is more than just sending "anonymous tips".
Especially if you dont want to be hunted as a person of interest.

Yog said:
Yes, setup will probably cost as AP. Afterwards? When everything is worked out? No, I don't think it'll be costly.

Strongly disagree.

Yog said:
This argument

No it cant.
There is an argument for spending AP where it makes sense, there is good payoff, and where the risks are well assessed.
Flailing around for vanities sake and risking something we've been strongly urged to keep under wraps is very much not it.

BronzeTongue said:
We'd probably need to side load it rather trying to directly invest in his one person business.

First have the cyber devils set up and LLC to run it through, then set up fake identities for them and the interest jade dogs to use. Figure out our security mechanisms for the crown, how we'll mask the finances, how obvious Molly's personal involvement will be, stuff like that.

Then hire him to consult on training and organizing the place on the side in small but ever increasing chunks.

Eventually he'd get comfortable and attached, then end up running the place to his own benefit without even realizing it until after it's happened. Habit is a powerful motivator for him, so once he's familiar with the people and has some inertia behind him he's unlikely to willingly leave.

Harry has a lot more in common with Mister than Mouse in this regard; pushing him is less effective than just setting things up so he wanders in and settles down himself.

War commander.
Between training other new Wardens, actual missions, and personal life and business stuff, he genuinely isnt likely to have the time.

Its worth remembering that Harry could have done all this if he wanted to.
He just seems to be reflexively hostile to that sorta thing.

Luccio essentially ambushed him with the regional commander post to get him to take it.
Molly as apprentice was basically something he had to be maneuverd into iirc.
He stumbled into the Za Guard. The Paranet's other applications are things he was only beginning to figure out after dying.

DragonParadox · Jan 2, 2023

Winning Vote

Adhoc vote count started by DragonParadox on Jan 2, 2023 at 4:21 PM, finished with 109 posts and 16 votes.

6 people have voted
[X] Show her fiance her magic
- Alratan
- BronzeTongue
- uju32
- Azais
- Yzarc
- afterthought53
3 people have voted
[X] Show her fiance her magic
-[X] If children become a thing, they are might inherit magic.
-[X] If she wants a smaller-scale demonstration, you can provide some obvious magic
-[X] Offer to make her the bridal dress, and the cake. You have all the tools.
- Yog
- Goldfish
- Arhin
3 people have voted
[X] Show her fiance her magic
-[X] Too many secrets do erode trust. Yes, he might take it badly, but better to find out before any vows are sworn than after.
- LightLan
- Ogoobu
- 恐Drake
1 people have voted
[X] Show her fiance her magic
-[X] Well, we've just met and I've not spoken to Alex so my perspective can not be well informed on the specifics of your life. But. Yes, tell him. Putting aside the idea of entering a marriage where one is actively choosing to deceive their partner about an aspect of their life, you are also a part of a group which has magic as a shared feature. The stress and effort of having to keep up a web of small lies for the rest of your life is not worth it. You probably don't have to show him weather magic, same way you don't have to show us: Just ask someone else in the order to show him something he'd deem physically impossible and your 'weather alteration is big and noticeable' explanation should suffice.
- BeepSmile
1 people have voted
[X] Show her fiance her magic
-[X] If children become a thing, they are likely to inherit magic.
- drake_azathoth
1 people have voted
[X] Show her fiance her magic
-[X] Too many secrets do erode trust. Yes, he might take it badly, but better to find out before any vows are sworn than after.
-[X] If children become a thing, they are might inherit magic.
-[X] If she wants a smaller-scale demonstration, you can provide some obvious magic
-[X] Offer to make her the bridal dress, and the cake. You have all the tools.
- TonedMite
1 people have voted
[X] Show her fiance her magic
-[x]Have the cyber devils give her access to a weather website. Don't explain why the computer doesn't fry in the presence of high magic.
- fictionfan

DragonParadox · Jan 2, 2023

Circles Abound

28th of August 2006 A.D.

In the end it is not even a question to your mind, of course Maria should tell her fiance about magic, ignorance can kill. Really she should have told him sooner, but she had not asked you to judge her life choices, you remind yourself firmly. "Secrets can wear away at trust, especially if they come out later anyway..." Thinking of mom and how surprised you had been to hear about her own magical history you add. "Not to mention any kids you might have could inherit the gift, that's something to prepare your fuiture husband well before one of them summons a miniature tornado at the breakfast table or something..."

All three of the others laugh along, Maria a little more sheepishly than the others. That is now how weather working manifests all of you know, but the point behind the mirth stands, you shouldn't make that commitment on a foundation of lies, even just lies by omission. For a moment you consider offering to do a demonstration in place of Maria calling up rain or something, but in the end you decide against it. The point is to get 'Alex' used to the idea that his wife to be has magic, not introduce him to the idea that blazing fiery swords held in ice cold hearts. It would be a good thing if more people knew the truth of the about magic's danger and wonder, but that does not mean they should learn it all at once by being introduced to your...

"Radiant might," Usum quickly interjects.

Yeah let's go with that, less radiant might, he might get a sunburn, you quip back.

As you drive Abby back to her place you ask more general questions about the Order of the Cauldron, how it started and why so many of the members are women.

She explains that initially it started life as a circle to aid in the casting of protection rituals, most of those rituals either required or worked best with a female caster and so it made sense to seek other women with the gift. Things just kind of snowballed from there as many practitioners in the Greater Chicago area found themselves isolated and weary of the darker things in the night. Even those who had family or community that knew about or accepted their power could not fully understand them and seeking out such people on one's own could be a crapshoot.

"What?" Abby asks, seeing you snicker

"Nothing, nothing, it's just that sounds..."

"Like a dirty word?" She rolls her eyes. "I swear there is something about being between the ages of fourteen and eighteen that makes you adept at recognizing certain patterns. If I could harness it all the kids in my class would score a 4.0 GPA."

"Too much power for any teacher that would be,," you put on your best Yoda voice. Alas that does not mean it's very good.

With a shake of her head perhaps to banish the silliness Abby continues, explaining that these days it's very easy to find neopagans or practicing Wicca and indeed she is an adept of the latter, but no one really wants to walk into the local coven ranting about vampires or hauntings, so really it's natural to have a group of people not joined so much by how they express or understand their magic, but by simply possessing it.

Just as you drop her off Clippy announces: "Incoming call, Father Forthil."

"Hello? Is something wrong?" you ask, worried.

"Nothing wrong, but I do have a visitor who would like to talk to you. You are not obliged to come by any means and if you wish of course you can bring your parents." Well that is not a to all ominous, you think to yourself, but wait for him to finish rather than crack the joke. "Mr Howard Hyde from the Library of Congress would like to speak to you, about your experiences with Agent Wright..."

What do you say?

[] Agree to meet with the Librarian

[] Refuse to meet with the Librarian

[] Write in

Arc Four Complete

Triumphs

Created your first diamonds 1 XP
Got into the diamond Infernal Diamonds business on the ground floor (Lydia) 1 XP
Acquired Black Rider 1 XP
Persuaded Harry to Accept some kind of payment for his work 1XP
Gained first vampire underling... he White King's son 2 XP
Rope Charity into... 1 XP
...getting your very own ghoul gang 2 XP
Intimidated the Chapalu and the Malks 2 XP
Helped Rosie get a somewhat more positive outlook 1 XP
Taught an exceptional magic lesson 1 XP
Helped improve Daniel's Occult Lore (Lydia) 1 XP
Chased off a Boggart which was hounding an unlucky street musician (Lydia) 1 XP
Made a good impression on the Order of the Cauldron (Molly and Lydia) 2 XP
Created a Least God (Molly and Lydia) 4 XP
Joined the Order of the Cauldron (Molly and Lydia) 2 XP

Total XP: 23

How do you spent your Essence?

Special
[] Steel Skin: Burn Essence to grant yourself more than mortal stamina (Cost 3 XP)
Spend 1 Essence and roll Willpower against DC 8; each success increases your Stamina by one up to a maximum of 8 for one scene

[] New Ability 3xp

[] Ancient sorcery spell 10xp

[] Attribute current rating *4xp

[] Ability current rating *2xp

[] Caste Ability current rating *1xp

[] Caste or Favored Charm Charm rating *3xp

[] Other Charm Charm rating *4xp

[] Willpower current rating

[] Essence current rating *8xp

[] First dot of a Sorcerer Path 4xp

[] Follow-up dots in a Sorcerer Path current rating *3xp

[]Merit current rating *4xp

[] Buy down Touch of Frost
-[] 2 XP for merely cold skin and an ability to touch plants
-[] 4 XP to remove

[] Write in

***

How do you want to handle Lydia's XP

[] Together as presently

[] A portion of all XP gets partitioned to her automatically
-[] Write in

[] Write in

OOC: Votes by plan for the level up, the other separately.

Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

Friendly Spider-Fish Abomination

Please sir, may I have some Meows?

Friendly Spider-Fish Abomination

Please sir, may I have some Meows?