That's fair, I was thinking that since we get to set whatever arbitrary rules we want for death that we could basically do what we wanted with the negative effects of aging. Especially since the classical image of an afterlife already has that sort of baked in. Who ever heard of growing old in hell?
Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)
- Thread starter DragonParadox
- Start date
- Crossover Fantasy
- Location
- Georgia
how about growing old endlessly yet never dying?
A custom charm similar to By Rage Recast but for Molly's worldbody once and if the ban on custom charms ends? First charm with prerequisites, symbolzing transition from a mortalish being to something closer to a Primordial. Or perhaps the end result of a quest to learn to control her worldbody.
Thanks! Well, our favored hells are Lanka and Kakuri, so it makes sense that our own hell is kinda blend of those. With inhabited areas being closer to Lanka and the Wastes around them closer to Kakuri.
- Location
- Canada
[X] Yes, try to plant a cyberdevil in her phone (Charisma+Technology)
Anyone up to writing a stunt to help get HMP permanent.
Yeah, but that'd be its own torment. The hell of boiling oil or being flayed alive don't really have arthritis in their themes.how about growing old endlessly yet never dying?
We're also talking about something that's only nominally a hell too. I mean, mechanically speaking making a heavenly realm with no hidden hook for the inhabitants is a valid choice. Picking the most beneficial afterlife properties available doesn't seem terribly out of bounds when that's on the table.
There's nothing wrong with doing it the other way, but I do think there's a lot of neat ground to cover with a culture and a people that haven't needed to come to terms with the inevitably of death grappling with a world that has and the fact that a plurality of their population has been doomed to it by nature their whole existence.
Imagine how short seventy years or so seems to someone who's lives centuries without the serious thought that they'd ever truly die. It's a terminal diagnosis to 35% of a population that has rarely known a loss and never true decay on a personal level.
For the ageless loss of function over time might be more disturbing than actual death. They'd probably have some experience with people choosing to end it, but not with simply withering like that.
How about the effects on their religious lives? The yearning for the outside world met with the reality of a cost they weren't truly prepared for applied indifferently and unfairly across their population on the basis of lineage alone.
An affliction they would already suffer from if it wasn't held held at bay by the world soul of their god-empress. A blessing of the holy land they couldn't appreciate until they saw the contrast with their own eyes.
The moment when a five hundred year old warrior Molly summons sees a hospice care facility and thinks 'there but for the grace of god(dess) go I' while looking at her face would practically be worth it's own interlude.
The personal and political turmoil, the art, the cultural shock echoing across a billion+ people suddenly encountering something alien to their experience that's now inextricably part of their new world.
Aging and reincarnation in place works, but it loses out on an amazing opportunity to set up a fascinating interplay between very different ways of life.
Goldfish
Friendly Spider-Fish Abomination
- Location
- Formerly of the Far Realm
It's almost certainly not for driving around. I doubt it's for use as trophy, either, and using it as an arcane focus doesn't make much sense to me.
More likely, Katrina recently had some dealings with the White Court and they want the car to tie up loose ends, on the off chance that it might point someone in their direction if they have the Sight to see such things.
- Location
- Dallas Texas
To be fair, that is still mostly the case - with eternal suffering in place, growing old and 'dying' is an annoying inconvenience, not a cessitation from existence. Imaging residents of this place learning that the elderly outside dont get to be young again once that irksome period of old age passes once again. They just stop existing forever. Horrific really.
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That isn't quite true, remember that in the world of Dresden death is very much not the end.
Heaven and Hell(s) definitely exist so death is not an end but a moment of transition for the human soul.
- Location
- Brazil, São Paulo, Cunha
[X] Yes, try to plant a cyberdevil in her phone (Charisma+Technology)
That's true, and it would indeed be very powerful imagery and I haven't thought about that exactly. However, with reincarnation mechanics, and, specifically, reincarnation mechanics healing you from the ailment you died from, but not from the other ills you had, there's a lot to explore too.
The lack of Endless Suffering in the outside realms would be a thing to explore for certain, whatever the mechanism of immortality is. Those going outside risk a lot. Unlike the inside, they aren't free to choose to end their life - the choice can be taken from them. And there are no second chances. And everyone lives like that. I mean, the sheer difference in social dynamics, in how one plans their life. The ambitions and consequences of one's actions. The perspective on suicide and euthanasia even.
True, but it's the end of one's local existence, and moving somewhere from which there's (mostly) no return.
You have a point, but it's worth considering that as far as vampires go she's really young, and that the culture isn't necessarily the same in terms of her options and access to personal resources.
The freedom and lifestyles of Thomas and his siblings aren't necessarily representative of the average white court vamp, since they have relational politics on their side to at least some extent.
It's possible that she's high enough on the totem pole that she isn't easily capable of screwing off like the ones that live in the undercity are apparently allowed to (in contrast with Thomas' crazy sister), but low enough she's still basically a goon that needs more social leverage to get personal luxury resources instead of needing to justify how she spends house funds.
Alternatively, if she is actually the white court version of a baronet or similar, she could be trawling for cheap but fancy cars to class herself up on a budget by accessorizing her goons.
There's a lot of speculation in this line of reasoning, so I could be off in a number of ways. However, I think it's overall more likely that this is something simple and direct rather than being some sort of plot.
True, but the contrast is higher if they don't age or if age doesn't actually cause decline (As in, they get marks of aging, but it largely comes down to cosmetics and an indication that you've got a lot of experience).
Going through a lifecycle and reincarnating in addition to the eventuality of knowing someone who chooses true death as the centuries go onward gives them a lot of context to work with. It makes the problem something close to the scope of their experience. A condition they've felt, but hasn't stuck yet.
I think the interplay of coming to terms with permanent and inevitable diminishment would be more striking and fascinating to see.
Especially since on an emotional and cultural level I think such an environment would blur the lines between demon and mortal, which would suddenly be in some way felt again by their introduction to the mortal world.
Which adds flavor going both ways; imagine a wizard interacting with a guy who's married to a cybernetic spider demon. Who not only sees them as a normal person, but until recently didn't really think of them as intrinsically different in the way Harry thinks of say Fetches.
There's a lot of space to play with demons and humans that functionally see themselves as different ethnicities within the same fundamental type of being.
Reincarnation has some of that, but the more you play with the effects of age and death the more those lines can be blurred.
There are stories out there that deal with this sort of theme, but the idea of a society that formed without the foundational problem of mortality discovering that it was waiting for them all along is really interesting to me.
It has a lot of subtle differences from a stories about innately immortal groups, groups that used to be immortal but lost it, and societies that mix immortals with mortals, that give it a lot of potential. In a way it even draws pieces from each of them into a novel configuration.
Edit: autocorrect issue
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- Location
- Georgia
True, but one thing often forgotten is that this world is still 'geographically' part of Yomi Wan and as such is connected to the Crimson Road. Which is a dimension-road that links together local hells. At least should be.
usually. there are plenty of beings, including humans that can stop that.
On the other hand, to them the similarity could make the difference more stark. To inhabitants of Molly's world death would be temporary - a renewal. The final end would be a choice, based on one's decision. To them, the permanent death of everyone on the first try in the outer world would be a cruel twisted reflection of what "normal" is. The world wouldn't be too alien to comprehend. It would be broken. Broken, and breaking all those within it.
I'd like to point out that this is still true with the reincarnation cycle. Devils also go trough it normally (well mushroom don't, but they are different), if at different rates than humans (I didn't make the rates too different, though). I specifically tried to make devils and humans being different ethnicities.
Plus, there are alchemical solutions for the issue, as I pointed out. Alchemy 4 gives you "age one month per one year while taking it, but one month per day after stopping until you reach your true age" elixirs. I am fairly sure that this would be everyone who can afford it to allow for the easiest reincarnation cycle.
Also, one of the first things I want to do with our kingdom would be to hire Harry to do a thorough tour of it, on the street level, then report back to us. Like, hire him and all to investigate. There's probably a novel worth of events that can be found in this premise.
I don't actually think that's the case. Molly's hell is her equivalent of a primordial's jouton body. It's "inside" her soul(s) rather than being an external element of some kind.
It's similar to how Molly's exaltation took inspiration from the hells to shape her power, but isn't actually dependent on them outside of charms that directly target their contents.
It's infernal essence from a prior age assuming the pattern of a sympathetic set of modern afterlives, not an actual element of them.
Yeah. I'm not saying that there's nothing to reincarnation, just that I think the relative ignorance (innocence?) towards the more fundamental properties of aging and death would be absent or greatly reduced with it as compared to being completely undying. Which is something that would be interesting to explore, and also allows for the other stuff you're talking about.
Fair point, though I'd say that makes them less like demons and more like aliens for the purposes of DF. The supernatural gives out near immortality/agelessness like candy in a lot of ways.
You did do a good job of showing that relationship, I just think that on a practical level the lines would blur more the less obvious the life cycle differences are.
I don't see the alchemy as super helpful to this, since it involves even more emphasis on the differences. Though having industrialized youth elixirs on hand would be fun in its own way.
World-Body Joutens are actual bodies of the Primordials in the way that K+Kingdom Hells simply aren't; they aren't equivalent at all.
Hell-customization certainly point toward it being accessible in other ways besides Infernal hitting you with their own hell transportation charm. Beyond that, IDK, up to DP. Esoteric metaphysics that defy conventional space and dimensions connecting to the realm because it fulfills the pre-reqs is not out of question.
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Yeah. I'm not saying that there's nothing to reincarnation, just that I think the relative ignorance (innocence?) towards the more fundamental properties of aging and death would be absent or greatly reduced with it as compared to being completely undying. Which is something that would be interesting to explore, and also allows for the other stuff you're talking about.
Fair point, though I'd say that makes them less like demons and more like aliens for the purposes of DF. The supernatural gives out near immortality/agelessness like candy in a lot of ways.
You did do a good job of showing that relationship, I just think that on a practical level the lines would blur more the less obvious the life cycle differences are.
I don't see the alchemy as super helpful to this, since it involves even more emphasis on the differences. Though having industrialized youth elixirs on hand would be fun in its own way.
- Location
- Georgia
Per wod that at doesn't stop it from being a place in umbra (never-never). Mages sometimes develop soul realms that are perfectly reachable through umbral travel. Not to mention the exaltations still have changed now.
Yeah, I can see it. I think that the perspective of "death is a mercy of the world that repairs wear and tear of the body, be it from damage in combat or ravages of time" would also be sufficiently innocent.
It's ot, but you have to admit that one can see where the impression comes from. Besides, Molly is a human transitioning to become a Primordial. Her hell isn't her world body, same as her human body isn't her humaniform jouten. But far into the future? They might become such.
I am not so sure. A lot of the infernal lore of ExWoD points toward Infernal not actually being the same Exalt splat as their similarly-named Solaroid siblings from second Edition.
Not that a Solaroid - and ExWoD infernals still supposed to be Solaroids - couldn't turn themselves into a giant metaphysical uberbeing that sprawls across dimensions as both pantheons, places and people if they are a protagonist character and they really try to, but that doesn't seems to be the natural direction of ExWoD infernals.
King and Kingdom, not Triumphant Howl of a Devil Tiger.
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fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
Well a good stunt is both cool and makes use of environment. So what kind of phones existed at this time and why might this phone be an especially comfortable home for a cyberdevil?
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