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Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

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While the Denarians are a legit threat to us, I have a feeling our first major source of danger (besides the Winter Court who have already volunteered to be our enemy) is going to be Human practitioners. White Council or Black Council, wizards are probably going to be a problem.

How long do ya'll think it will take to figure out that killing Humans with magic doesn't damage us like it would have pre-Exaltation? It's going to be really frustrating to work under an assumed handicap because we have no IC way of knowing we don't have that limitation.
 
It doesn't really matter before we have our basics like Rage Recast, Ego Primacy and some Social down, but...

One Charm we should think about to use against Wizards and Warlocks is the Lanka one that explodes anything manmade not in use by us or our allies in a large area.

Why? Magic items and foci are manmade, and aren't made out of Magical Materials.
 
Oh yeah, also kills all guns and swords, I guess.

I wonder what kind of roll-off Warden swords get or if they just job to the Primordial power of Infernal Charms.
 
CorruptedKing said:
Regardless of what it was written for it seems pretty reasonable for an infernal which is pretty much the mafia on a cosmic scale.
Yes I did just call infernals the cosmic mafia
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In the dresden files. The line between the good guys and bad guys is... generally clearer?

Even if no one is perfectly good.

Saying we should ignore that seems like terrible advice.
 
zxzx24 said:
In the dresden files. The line between the good guys and bad guys is... generally clearer?
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So it's a fantasy? What the quote essentially says is 'being a good person is cool and all but that doesn't really matter to assholes' and it's generally preferable to know things like murder is meat and golden years tarnished black and not need them than to encounter a situation where you want them but don't have them. No one is a good person all the time especially irl.
Honestly the white council probably abide by this, they're basically the good guys but if you break their rules they'll fuck you up.
 
CorruptedKing said:
So it's a fantasy? What the quote essentially says is 'being a good person is cool and all but that doesn't really matter to assholes' and it's generally preferable to know things like murder is meat and golden years tarnished black and not need them than to encounter a situation where you want them but don't have them. No one is a good person all the time especially irl.
Honestly the white council probably abide by this, they're basically the good guys but if you break their rules they'll fuck you up.
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Your trying to make a point here, and its a good point. And one that we should definitely keep in mind. But your arguing it very badly.

Heres an example of them being ruthless and pragmatic.
Anti-Hero: The White Council is frequently forced to do hideous things in the name of the greater good, such as ordering for sixteen-year-old kids to be decapitated for partaking in Black Magic.
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Here is an example of... Captain Anastasia Lucio being genuinely heroic and noble. Even if it costs them.
The Needs of the Many: Averted in Dead Beat, she and her patrol of Wardens are working to stop the Darkhollow from being complete when they discover a group of children trick-or-treating and about to be attacked by zombies. They can either let the kids die and work on saving everyone by stopping the ritual, or potentially let the ritual go off and protect the children. Luccio chooses the latter and is angered Harry would think she would do otherwise.
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The white council is a tapestry of compromises, broken promises, and people who go to far.

But they are the good guys, they are trying to the right thing, and they are trying to help.

Mollys own family is also an example of genuinely, honestly good people being able to make a positive difference in the world. Molly has every reason to frown on the kind of dismissive cynicism that crops up in prince, and in hell's in general. And if anything being able to look at a demon and tell them "thats bullshit" will help us.

Being a good person is roundly dismissed and probably mocked by people like the Denarians, demons, monsters like faeries and the winter court. Fuck them I would be glad to throw out any advice they give us.

And being a good person really does matter to the people we actually care about. Like Our Family, Harry, and the angels who are gonna be hanging around when our dad retires. They think it matters, and they show it does fairly often. The far reaching effects of Harrys actions do really change peoples lives for the better, and so can we.

You wanted to make a point about being clever, and not playing fair Nor expecting fair play from enemies who have every reason to ignore the rules.

But you quoted a shitty, smarmy asshat saying "Ha-ha! Look how dumb all the good people are! Point at them and laugh!"

Also we don't have a binary choice between. "learn evil powers or don't learn evil powers." Its a scale of prioritization.

The time we spend learning to send souls to hell to be flayed alive for all eternity is time spent not learning to make artifact weapons, learning to cure cancer, learning to teleport, or learning to block bullets with our winning smile. Which is entirely beside the point, but still annoyed me.
 
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zxzx24 said:
The time we spend learning to send souls to hell to be flayed alive for all eternity is time spent not learning to make artifact weapons, learning to cure cancer, learning to teleport, or learning to block bullets with our winning smile. Which is entirely beside the point, but still annoyed me how you mischaracterized our decision making process.
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Hey, don't diss Murder is Meat. It's our pseudo-Spirit Killer Charm.

We kind of need one, though I can accept Offering of Meat from Lanka.

Immortal killing techniques are rare, but send Immortal to Hell also works.

Also, if we get our own Kingdom all the "send them to Hell" Charms can just send them there at our discretion.
 
Valkhir said:
Hey, don't diss Murder is Meat. It's our pseudo-Spirit Killer Charm.

We kind of need one, though I can accept Offering of Meat from Lanka.

Immortal killing techniques are rare, but send Immortal to Hell also works.

Also, if we get our own Kingdom all the "send them to Hell" Charms can just send them there at our discretion.
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Experience spent learning to send people to hell is time spent not becoming even deadlier at sword play. Better at crafting. Making supreme mind controlling arguments, dealing agg damage, and its experience not spent on our shintai or world body.

Your right about me thinking its a waste of points (especially right now).

But its not "do we get this power or not" Its "what order do we get these powers in."

Whats your most personally desired power then? Is it murder is meat? Do you think we need to try and mission kill a load of spirits right the fuck now, or do you think something else is more important?
 
zxzx24 said:
Whats your most personally desired power then? Is it murder is meat? Do you think we need to try and mission kill a load of spirits right the fuck now, or do you think something else is more important?
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That is a point, but we're going to need some kind of trick to deal with immortals.

If it's not sending them to Hell, its either mindfuck Charms (which I prefer Crowned with Fury of for servitude) or burying them in cement or something, unless you just want to leave super dangerous enemies everywhere.

Luckily, my preferred plan of By Rage Recast, Crowned with Fury, either Sapphire Unbinding or Ego Primacy in that order does deal with it.

It's just something to keep in mind.

Edit: Though, Crowned with Fury method is...messy. Defeat the immortal and immobilize them in the preferred manner then keep spamming Crowned with Fury until you roll good. Now they're enslaved.
 
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An anti-Immortal charm will eventually be great to have in our toolkit, but once you've got that kind of power you suddenly become an existential threat to beings who are generally monstrously powerful and not at all accustomed to being in danger. The very first time we put an Immortal being down, you better believe others are going to learn about it shortly thereafter, and then we end up on the shit list for a lot of really nasty critters.

Before we reach that point, we've got to have our foundations really well established and our weak points armored to the best of our ability. I'm not sure what that means on the Exalted power progression scale, but I would assume there's a lot of stuff we need before we're ready to reliably bend Immortals over our knee without experiencing unacceptable blowback in the aftermath.
 
Valkhir said:
That is a point, but we're going to need some kind of trick to deal with immortals.
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Eventually maybe, but right now? Do you think we even could kill Nicodemus right now? Or Mab? Or the fairy grandmothers?

Even at our insanely boosted level I still see us going *splat* against them.

To say nothing of us actually being staunch allies with people who fight evil professionally even without exalted super powers. Between our own occult skill, Harry, and our families divine favor I bet we could work up a wicked binding if we had to.

Curing cancer is not something any of them could do on their own. Nor bind minions to their service. Effortlessly exorcise people or remove mind control or insanity.

Goldfish said:
Before we reach that point, we've got to have our foundations really well established and our weak points armored to the best of our ability. I'm not sure what that means on the Exalted power progression scale, but I would assume there's a lot of stuff we need before we're ready to reliably bend Immortals over our knee without experiencing unacceptable blowback in the aftermath.
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Perfect defense, perfect attack, surprise Negation, shaping defense.

Ill pull the list of actual charms in a bit, might want to ask vile or valkhir as well though.

(Bloodless murk evasion, or Ablation of brass and Fire though who strikes the wind is better)(I couldn't find a perfect attack interestingly)(Raw edged paranoia principle)(Ego infused pattern primacy)
 
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zxzx24 said:
Perfect defense, perfect attack, surprise Negation, shaping defense.
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Bloodless Murk Evasion or Ablation of Brass and Fire, I haven't seen Perfect Attacks in the Infernal exwod doc yet or glossed over it, Raw-Edged Paranoia, Freedom Let's Go deals with everything but you also release an Intimacy.

I would ask the QM if we could combo Freedom Lets Go with that Hell of Boiling Oil Charm that gives a magical Intimacy of "I hate X" that reduces difficulty of actions against the target and you can switch it in some circumsances and Freedom Lets Go so it costs more WP or Essence in aggregate, but can let us skip the worst cost.

Edit: Personally I want By Rage Recast as our complete foundation so we deal Agg damage with our sword. Not much soaks it and it heal slow.

For combat Charms...Viridian Legend Exoskeleton, By Agony Empowered and The City Still Stands look the most efficient. Plus Ego Primacy or Charred Sinner Renewal. Ego Primacy is better healing but Charred Sinner helps Essence regen too but needs toxic or bad fluids like bleach we can submerge in.

Social is Crowned with Fury, the wish-granting one, Heart-Carving Wind, maybe Demonic Primacy of Essence.

Sorcery wise Emerald Binding, Sapphire Unbinding, Cirrus Skiff and the portal one.

Order depends on votes so I don't plan too much on that, except that we really need to round out via Rage Recast.

Later luxuries afterwards....Thousandfold Typhoon Hand for more attacks, Scar Writ Saga Shield + Invuln Skin of Bronze + Ox Bodies for tank memes.

Buy Shadow Spite Curse before E3 as we prob want that as our Signature.

These are, of course, my recommendations and as you can see I left out stuff like crafting. I expect we'll get some at some point but as its of no interest to me I leave it to others as to what and when.
 
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I couldn't find a perfect attack either, which sucks.

Valkhir said:
These are, of course, my recommendations and as you can see I left out stuff like crafting. I expect we'll get some at some point but as its of no interest to me I leave it to others as to what and when.
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But crafting is so good in the Dresdenverse! Look at what Harry has made! And hes not even that good!
 
zxzx24 said:
But crafting is so good in the Dresdenverse! Look at what Harry has made! And hes not even that good!
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Uh yeah, but we'd be crafting ExWod fetishes not Dresden style crafting.

Also, just as you reminded us earlier: Opportunity costs. Exp spent on crafting is...okay. But why not become better yourself? As much or more improvement as if with items but permanent, irreversible, can't be stolen and compounds!

Edit: Items also are NOT replacement for Charms power wise usually. And in the situations where thats not true...we aren't getting there for a while. Resource wise even, not just ability.
 
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I'm kind of thinking picking up a sorcery first, if we can, since its one of our major perks, and Shintais, while useful are going to be very unsubtle about the whole "Denarian, but without the limiters" thing.

Leave that for at least an arc first, the majority of DF beings die just fine to Green Sun Nimbus Flare.

Barring that, I want enough DF craft to have a full suite of handy talismans. And armor
 
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Our ability to do DF style crafting is a direct consequence of being able to do DF style, non Sorcery magic. So better start on that front and find out whats going on.

The spirit fetish crafting Infernal Charm doesn't interact with that at all, most likely.
 
Valkhir said:
That is a point, but we're going to need some kind of trick to deal with immortals.

If it's not sending them to Hell, its either mindfuck Charms (which I prefer Crowned with Fury of for servitude) or burying them in cement or something, unless you just want to leave super dangerous enemies everywhere.

Luckily, my preferred plan of By Rage Recast, Crowned with Fury, either Sapphire Unbinding or Ego Primacy in that order does deal with it.

It's just something to keep in mind.

Edit: Though, Crowned with Fury method is...messy. Defeat the immortal and immobilize them in the preferred manner then keep spamming Crowned with Fury until you roll good. Now they're enslaved.
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Just to be clear, most immortals in DF are of the type that either have a weakness to exploit and/or can be dispersed in a way that requires a lengthy reformation process.

Many varieties of nevernever spirit, for example, can't permanently die in the mortal world. That doesn't mean you can obliterate them in a traumatic way that boots them out of this dimension. At which point they aren't a problem.

Damning people to hell isn't necessary to actually fix the issues they're likely to cause us.

The ones that doesn't apply to tend to have a host of other issues associated with them. See the faerie queens for an example of a set of immortals whose deaths could directly screw loads of things up.

To a certain extent the solution to this is to not make mortal enemies out of true immortals on a regular basis, and make messing with us incredibly unprofitable for the rare few that we can't kill with nuclear hate fire.
 
zxzx24 said:
But crafting is so good in the Dresdenverse! Look at what Harry has made! And hes not even that good!
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It is great, but it's also a time consuming skill to master to any significant degree, and one that can only really be useful after you've already had years of traditional magical education. Like you said, Harry isn't that great at it himself, having narrowly focused most of his work toward combat applications, and it's taken him decades to reach that point.

Time being the most precious of resources, it would probably be better to focus ours on furthering other aspects of our personal power and then use that to acquire sufficient resources to pay more experienced practitioners to craft stuff for our use.
 
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