- Location
- washington
I don't much get the mechanics that sounds like a lot of exp though. Uh uju there a counter argument for that?
Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)
- Thread starter DragonParadox
- Start date
- Crossover Fantasy
Do you genuinely think we wont buy E3?
We only get the opportunity to buy the charm for our personal Hell at E3.
That is a Charm that the vast majority of players are looking forward to buying.
Again, shintai is not a once per story thing. Even in normal use, with no additional chicanery, it resets to base activation difficulty every 28 days that its not used. And as soon as we get to E3, its a "Do we think the thematics support us popping it constantly, or do we want to keep it for special occasions" thing given the right signature charm.
Thats a Rule Zero determination and negotiation between players and GM, not a mechanical limit.
- Location
- washington
Not gonna argue against your reasoning most dresden files plots take anywhere between a day and a single week max though. Dresden gets shit done.
Yzarc
The Spark of Madness
My point is, you said that you based the shintai on frequent use. I am pointing out how difficult that is. We need to spend a ton of xp and it will take two sessions to get it. 80 turns IF and IF we vote consistently for it.
You are CLAIMING that the vast majority of players want it. But until the votes come in, that is YOUR opinion, not a fact. Further things may come up and we may need to purchase other charms. VEE was voted on and only lost because people wanted E2 last turn. So no, it is not a gurantee.
So what I am saying is, you claiming we will be popping it left and right is factually wrong until such time we can actually do it. THAT is my point.
This is not a table top background but a quest. So people are going to vote differently. It is not an assured thing. Even if you had sole control of the character, the GM may throw things at you and force you to buy other charms.
Its not?
The problem with Yzarc's argument is that they are conflating mandatory XP purchases that would happen anyway like E3, regardless of what else we choose, with the optional spending for an optional route.
We are buying E3, VLE and BRR regardless of what ever else happens.
We are probably buying Boiling Oil Mastery anyway, because it provides so many benefits its a nobrainer for the 4XP cost.
But buying Boiling Oil Mastery and Teacup Ninja are 8XP total.
Furthermore, the story arcs thus far generally have ended up with us earning around 18XP between XP spending intervals.
That was what we earned in the Prelude, and the last arc iirc.
The QM is not stingy with XP.
Last edited:
Please correct me if I'm wrong, as I am actually not that fluent in mechanics, but isn't the Kingdom charm essence 5 in he revised document that is being used for kingdom building?
Yzarc
The Spark of Madness
You said this.
I pointed out that it is not frequent use unless we purchase the requirements which is not a gurantee.
It's 5 dot Charm, but you aren't locked to your Essence level to determine what level of Charms you can buy.
How many dots it is simply determines EXP cost, though some like the Kingdom one specifies a minimum Essence level, three in this case.
- Pronouns
- She/Her
He wasn't saying we'd never get it, he was saying that the XP requirements to be constantly popping shintai like you want aren't something we can do for several story arcs at minimum, and until then we'll be limited to popping it once an Arc, as according to the definition of the QM, and that having access to the multi-action charm on a semi-consistent basis is something that we could find really useful now, and that would be easier with his build than yours.
As is, we're already going to have to go through the next arc without any defensive charms before we have another chance to spend XP, his plan loads up on them after that, yours requires waiting another arc. That's his argument, as I understand it.
Alright, how about this for a Signature?
Its a rare difficulty reducer that would stack with Boiling Sea Mastery, and give us an extra action in practice too.
The features this time include the thematics of...basically the Five Maidens if I got that right? Or what themes remain of them in this Age.
Concepts of Battle, Endings, Journeys etc.
Last edited:
1)Yes I did.
Long stretches of low level activity with several hours or days of screaming terror has been the norm in a lot of Dresden lore.
Popping it multiple scenes at key points of a story is a reasonable benchmark based on known history.
Not a once per story thing by any means.
Making assertions about something we'll be using for the bulk of the story based on its performance when we're still a baby seems misleading.
2)It is my opinion.
But it is one based on some of the discussion inthread here, where there has been quiet consensus and no real opposition.
Not just something coming out of my ass.
Nothing is guaranteed, but a bunch of things are very high probability.
Five dot charm, so 20XP to buy.
But it unlocks for purchase at E3.
- Location
- washington
so random thought think we could permanently kill something like the sleeper for which cthulhu is based off somewhat here?
Yzarc
The Spark of Madness
I will point out that most Plots of the setting last for a couple of week tops. I mean it has been literally only 2ish weeks since Molly Exalted.
So our shintai, if we popped it at the start would still be locked. This is after 60 turns btw.
With regards to constantly popping it......
We are you are LITERALLY counting your chickens before they hatch.
Secondly, we would either need to rush Shintai popping or Soak. No two ways about it, so in that time we would be vulnerable. I mean we LITERALLY need 24xp for it. That is more than any one session. So 60-70 turns where we cannot use the shintai more than once.
There has been no discussion period. That is why I wondered how you were saying that we will get it, when past experience says otherwise.
Heck in this very thread, the Wish Charm got voted a lot but lost only due to E2 being more important.
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Honestly, I've never been really sold on the flight thing, but I didn't know the other options well enough to guess an alternative and didn't see any point in arguing when it was still a ways out from the vote on it, and I'm pretty sure I wasn't the only one. The support of a vocal minority against a silent majority isn't a "sure thing," especially now that attention has been drawn to an alternative.
Next update is done, since the last vote was OOC so I did not have to wait for the result to get writing, just waiting for a tie-breaker at this point.
We seem to be talking at cross purposes.
I think most of those requirements are more or less assured to happen anyway, because they have internal logic behind them.
We're buying Boiling Oil Mastery anyway because difficulty reduction. We're buying E3 anyway. We are buying VLE and BRR anyway.
There are very few conceivable universes where we arent beelining for those things anyway.
I dont consider them prereqs.
Do you get me?
First, Id like to clarify that I said that we could, and whether or not we should is a Rule Zero negotiation between players and QM as to whether or not it fits the tone of the story we are telling.
Secondly, if we were beelining for shintai at will, we'd only need XP for E3(16) + Boiling Oil Mastery(4) + Teacup Ninja(4) just to meet the mechanical requirements. 24 XP.
Thats significantly less than 39XP.
We are buying the other things anyway, but they arent strictly speakimg necessary for the strat.
Yzarc
The Spark of Madness
No. Hard Disagree.
I do not recall ever saying that I would vote for Boiling Sea Mastery, nor do I recall that I would make it a signature.
In fact, I do want to make Shadow spite curse our signature. THAT is my point. You are not the sole voting force and people are going to vote otherwise.
But for arguments sake, let me ask this.
1. Can we pop Shintais continiously from start?
2. What do you prioritise? Popping shintia or soak?
Because as I pointed out, just because "We will be getting it anyway" does not do away the 24xp minimum (If we skip soak) to be able to pop shintais. That is two sessions away. 60-80 turns.
THAT is my objection.
- Location
- washington
could always roll if someone doesn't vote in the next 10 or so minutes?
Yzarc
The Spark of Madness
Please no. That would be horrible if half the player base feels jilted due to a dice roll.
- Location
- washington
by 60-80 turns you mean updates right? Cause I am unsure we will even have that many turns period.
Yzarc
The Spark of Madness
Yeah, a turn is one update.
I would really rather not on such an important vote. If it stays this way for a couple of days maybe.
- Location
- washington
pfffft do you mean a literal tie for a couple days or there not being a decent margin?
I mean a literal tie. While I would prefer more than a one vote margin for something this big I do not want to come off like I'm pressuring people to change their votes to get things going. One vote will have to do.