Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

The Red War is not neverending. Far from it. I expect it to be taken care of for the most part by the end of one in story year from us getting involved in it after our actions in South America.
Its not never ending, we will end this shit within the year.
I do have to question if you don't believe the war is going to last for a significant amount of time why make it her life especially to Liaison with The Fellowship a literal nobody of an organization as far as actually helping us in the war.

The most valuable thing they can give us is information and we don't need a full-time liaison for that why let her wreck her civilian life for something that is literally useless all that really does is increase the danger profile she's under at pretty much all the times and gets us pretty much nothing in return.

If the war is going to be wrapping up inclusively why does she need to interrupt her life to Liaison with functionally a agency that isn't particularly useful.

There's literally nothing stopping her from coming with us for every tactical engagement which is the most important theater of this war because College isn't like compulsory school you can just not go to certain days or just call in sick or both without significantly impacting anything.

What is she getting out of being a liaison to the fellowship and what are we getting out of it particularly what are we getting out of it other than one of our Circle Mates is in near Perpetual danger for little to no benefit.

[X] Yog
 
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She's very good, even without those chi boosts. She is however still not an exalt so her max performance does endurance issues. She's essentially an ambush predator.
Yeah, that's what I'm saying.

I do have to question if you don't believe the war is going to last for a significant amount of time why make it her life
I'm not making her do anything. She wants to get more involved. I imagine this is the same reason why you advocated to allow Daniel to get more involved and give up his angelic protection.
 
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I certainly hope not. She's a member of our Circle, we spend XP on her, it'd be kind of awkward if she stopped fighting after the Red Court is taken care of lol.
Yes, of course, and not what I meant. I meant that she's likely to run off to... I don't know, hunt dark mages and assassinate North Korean leadership or something.

Also, being a CIrcle Member is more than being a combat servitor. All our members have non-combat capabilities and specialties:
Molly is a crafter and sorceress, wielder of ancient exalted lore and Empress of Sanctuary
Lydia is the princess of the dead, medium, and holder of ancient fae lore
Tiffany is a healer, flesh-shaper, soul trader, and keeper of ancient angelic lore
Olivia is... What? I was setting her to be an idol, geomancer, priestess, a symbol.
 
Yes, of course, and not what I meant. I meant that she's likely to run off to... I don't know, hunt dark mages and assassinate North Korean leadership or something.
Olivia isn't going to be going on missions to assassinate North Korean leadership without talking to her boss first. She is under Mercy in Servitude, she needs to actually be listening to us.

Olivia is... What? I was setting her to be an idol, geomancer, priestess, a symbol.
You are overreacting. What Olivia wants matters too, and it's not like she can't do any of those things later or as well.
 
I'm not making her do anything. She wants to get more involved. I imagine this is the same reason why you advocated to allow Daniel to get more involved and give up his angelic protection.
Okay make is the wrong word that is my fault. Why let I guess is actually correct why let her work for as a liaison to a useless organization. There's nothing to be gained there other than wasting her time and putting her in danger all the time.

Also the Daniel situation has more to do with the fact that Angelic protection is not actually particularly helpful for a bunch of different reasons most of them stemming from the fact that he's already aware of the supernatural so the Angelic protection he has only extends to the house that he lives in not on the street.

Even then we see in Canon that there's really nothing stopping supernaturally influenced human actors from attacking the house anyway so it's really kind of a one-dimensional protection as a whole so I didn't think he would be giving anything up because the Angels still protect the house and they weren't going to be able to protect him outside of it anyway nor will they be able to protect him from anything he would want to be involved in.

To be honest I have no problem with Olivia being more involved I just wish it was with something a bit more useful than the fellowship. There's just very little actual benefit to her being there versus being in college and her being on call for us on tactical missions she's a sniper us calling her for tactical reasons is exactly what she's meant to be doing being a liaison to a useless org feels shit.

To put it another way she's just as useful in college as she is liaisoning with the fellowship so why not just let her stay in college at least that way she's still might accumulate useful connections other than the nobody Brigade.
 
There's nothing to be gained there other than wasting her time and putting her in danger all the time.
I think you need to reread the update along with the votes and DragonParadox's response to me earlier because you seem to misunderstand what the vote is for if you see it as useless.

he's already aware of the supernatural so the Angelic protection he has only extends to the house that he lives in not on the street
That's not how that works.
 
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I do have to question if you don't believe the war is going to last for a significant amount of time why make it her life especially to Liaison with The Fellowship a literal nobody of an organization as far as actually helping us in the war.
To see vampires get assinated with a laser gun.

Its a very simple premise.

They should fear clear sightlines by the time she is done.
 
I think you need to reread the update along with the votes and DragonParadox's response to me earlier because you seem to misunderstand what the vote is for if you see it as useless.
Olivia's idea that she should liaise with the Fellowship in efforts to fight the Red Court,the first of a new kind of agent, taking advantage of your ability to awaken the Po
That's why I wanted to help set up the gate, it's a chance to help, but there are plenty of sorcerers in Sanctuary who can do this stuff. I am a very, very good shot."
so now she is left looking at those other things that before seemed more justifications for an unjust system, excuses but it turns out they are very tangible and very, very evil. And her superpower is still shooting.
No, the people you will be attempting to cure of vampire blood addiction in the Colombian Government. The Fellowship is likely to be leery of such transformations for some time even if everything goes well.
So what am I not seeing. It's essentially Olivia will be in South America attempting to Liaison with the people that we peel off of The Colombian government from the reds to turn into Oliviaoids to turn into a corp of people that will shoot Reds.

One we don't need to liaison with the fellowship to do that they are essentially a subsidiary of us due to wanting shit from us we don't need the permission to do anything. Two we don't need Olivia to do that at all never mind full time. Three she's very specifically looking for an excuse to be in South America rather than something being particularly useful about her presence there. She's serving as a liaison for no reason in a war that will be done before this year is over while she'll have completely fucked her non supernatural life for no reason.

If she ever wanted a career or very least a job in the field that she went to college for ever. No will ever take her if she drops out ever she looks like someone who couldn't make the cut because she chose to go to college for performance and then dropped out for no discernible reason. Which is all kinds of suspicious never mind her presence in South America because she unlike us can't make body doubles nor can she just not be in South America within 30 seconds.
That's not how that works.
Sauce? We see the house get attacked by Mortals in one of the books and literally a denarian shows up and tries to throw a coin at one of the children if Harry wasn't there that would be it Hank would be a child Denarian. Also Molly even before she is truly clued into the supernatural gets taken advantage of by Warlock so how does the protection work. It is literally one-dimensional because every time we seen it tested it's only direct threats via the supernatural inside of the house is the only situation where we haven't seen it fail.

Also we are only staying there because of the Angelic protection if it doesn't work for her brother or he's somehow no longer has it than she also don't have it and we stayed for no reason.
 
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We see the house get attacked by Mortals in one of the books and literally a denarian shows up and tries to throw a coin at one of the children if Harry wasn't there that would be it Hank would be a child Denarian. Also Molly even before she is truly clued into the supernatural gets taken advantage of by Warlock so how does the protection work. It is literally one-dimensional because every time we seen it tested it's only direct threats via the supernatural inside of the house is the only situation where we haven't seen it fail
My sauce is canon. Those things happened and at the end of the day Michael's family is still fine. That's because of the Angelic protection, another words it's author fait. The Angels don't have to be obvious about what they do in fact from what we've seen they typically aren't and need a pretty good reason to make themselves and their activities known.


If you are a family member of a Knight of the Cross you are probably aware of the supernatural anyway. That doesn't exclude you from Angelic protection. DragonParadox told us what we'd be allowing Daniel to give up. The protection would make zero sense if it only applied to the household. The protection detail to their families is supposed to stop them from getting killed by supernatural actors like the Denarians if they don't Choose to get involved of their own accord by exercising their Free Will.

Otherwise they'd simply be killed off on the street by a Denarian or Nicodemus plot because the Angelic protection would have an obvious and easy exploit and wouldn't be worth much of anything.

Now that Daniel gave it up, if a Denarian wants to jump him in the middle of the street, take his head off and present it to Micheal while he is occupied they are, theoretically, free to do so.

Also we are only staying there because of the Angelic protection
Speak for yourself.

So what am I not seeing
She's serving as a liaison for no reason
Well yeah, but she is offering to help organize and teach them how to use their powers, which she would be good at as a PC grade Fomori.
 
[X] Agree with Olivia's idea that she should liaise with the Fellowship in efforts to fight the Red Court,the first of a new kind of agent, taking advantage of your ability to awaken the Po
-[X] Set clear time frames and objectives for her assignment. Namely, provide a certain number of personnel trained and set mission deadlines.
-[X] Suggest that Olivia talk to other more experienced fighters for the Righteous Cause such as the Knights of the Cross who can advise her on how to properly balance fighting and life so as not to burn out and not become a victim of the enemy's manipulation.
I like this sort of approach: she has the right to make this choice herself, and I think Yog's plan goes too hard against that, but we need to let her know we're concerned, that we care.

On which note, @Ivar, thoughts on the following stunt?

[X] Agree with Olivia's idea that she should liaise with the Fellowship in efforts to fight the Red Court,the first of a new kind of agent, taking advantage of your ability to awaken the Po
-[X] Set clear time frames and objectives for her assignment. Namely, provide a certain number of personnel trained and set mission deadlines.
-[X] Suggest that Olivia talk to other more experienced fighters for the Righteous Cause such as the Knights of the Cross who can advise her on how to properly balance fighting and life so as not to burn out and not become a victim of the enemy's manipulation.
--[X] STUNT: You look over at Olivia's fervent expression pensively for a moment, before jerking your head towards a nearby outcropping, well away from the ongoing arcane workings. "Sit with me a minute, would you?"
--[X] STUNT: Perched across from her on the unearthly stone, you take a moment to gather your thoughts before speaking. "Listen, I'm not going to tell you no on this: I know how it feels to need to do something like this, and I'm not that sort of hypocrite." You give a short, wry laugh before your expression grows serious again.
--[X] STUNT: Gently, you reach out to take her hands in your own. "But, Olivia... I want you to consider how you do this really carefully, okay? Throwing yourself into things like this, especially if you're throwing other things away? It can..." you trail off a moment, your mind flashing to Harry in some of his darker moments; and to your dad, and the worry you've seen Mom try to hide, alone at night in a dark and quiet kitchen. And then... to ice and fear and a little bit of mind magic done with the best of intentions, honest.
--[X] STUNT: "It can really fuck you up, okay? Sometimes in ways you don't realise until you're a lot further down the line." You look her dead in the eye, trying to get across how much this means to you, how much her wellbeing means to you. "I don't want that for you, okay? I won't say no, but I want to make sure you're doing this in the right way, yeah?"

I'm thinking here that Molly wouldn't want to tell Olivia not to do this, because she knows full well what being stifled and constrained feels like, but by the same token, she also has first-hand experience of the impacts, the knock-on effects, and all that.

The mention of Arctis Tor and that whole situation might seem a bit out of left field, but I think it's something that would spring to mind, for all of its ties to unintended consequences. It's not strictly cause and effect, but I think the two would be tied together in her mind a bit.
 
I like this sort of approach: she has the right to make this choice herself, and I think Yog's plan goes too hard against that, but we need to let her know we're concerned, that we care.

On which note, @Ivar, thoughts on the following stunt?
I think it's good, I'll even vote for it. Not that it will change anything. But it's a good dialogue IMHO.

[X] Agree with Olivia's idea that she should liaise with the Fellowship in efforts to fight the Red Court,the first of a new kind of agent, taking advantage of your ability to awaken the Po
-[X] Set clear time frames and objectives for her assignment. Namely, provide a certain number of personnel trained and set mission deadlines.
-[X] Suggest that Olivia talk to other more experienced fighters for the Righteous Cause such as the Knights of the Cross who can advise her on how to properly balance fighting and life so as not to burn out and not become a victim of the enemy's manipulation.
--[X] STUNT: You look over at Olivia's fervent expression pensively for a moment, before jerking your head towards a nearby outcropping, well away from the ongoing arcane workings. "Sit with me a minute, would you?"
--[X] STUNT: Perched across from her on the unearthly stone, you take a moment to gather your thoughts before speaking. "Listen, I'm not going to tell you no on this: I know how it feels to need to do something like this, and I'm not that sort of hypocrite." You give a short, wry laugh before your expression grows serious again.
--[X] STUNT: Gently, you reach out to take her hands in your own. "But, Olivia... I want you to consider how you do this really carefully, okay? Throwing yourself into things like this, especially if you're throwing other things away? It can..." you trail off a moment, your mind flashing to Harry in some of his darker moments; and to your dad, and the worry you've seen Mom try to hide, alone at night in a dark and quiet kitchen. And then... to ice and fear and a little bit of mind magic done with the best of intentions, honest.
--[X] STUNT: "It can really fuck you up, okay? Sometimes in ways you don't realise until you're a lot further down the line." You look her dead in the eye, trying to get across how much this means to you, how much her wellbeing means to you. "I don't want that for you, okay? I won't say no, but I want to make sure you're doing this in the right way, yeah?"
 
@CuriousQuasit Just like the last time your stunt is beautiful. The base vote is the same so I won't bother approval voting.

[X] Agree with Olivia's idea that she should liaise with the Fellowship in efforts to fight the Red Court,the first of a new kind of agent, taking advantage of your ability to awaken the Po
-[X] Set clear time frames and objectives for her assignment. Namely, provide a certain number of personnel trained and set mission deadlines.
-[X] Suggest that Olivia talk to other more experienced fighters for the Righteous Cause such as the Knights of the Cross who can advise her on how to properly balance fighting and life so as not to burn out and not become a victim of the enemy's manipulation.
--[X] STUNT: You look over at Olivia's fervent expression pensively for a moment, before jerking your head towards a nearby outcropping, well away from the ongoing arcane workings. "Sit with me a minute, would you?"
--[X] STUNT: Perched across from her on the unearthly stone, you take a moment to gather your thoughts before speaking. "Listen, I'm not going to tell you no on this: I know how it feels to need to do something like this, and I'm not that sort of hypocrite." You give a short, wry laugh before your expression grows serious again.
--[X] STUNT: Gently, you reach out to take her hands in your own. "But, Olivia... I want you to consider how you do this really carefully, okay? Throwing yourself into things like this, especially if you're throwing other things away? It can..." you trail off a moment, your mind flashing to Harry in some of his darker moments; and to your dad, and the worry you've seen Mom try to hide, alone at night in a dark and quiet kitchen. And then... to ice and fear and a little bit of mind magic done with the best of intentions, honest.
--[X] STUNT: "It can really fuck you up, okay? Sometimes in ways you don't realise until you're a lot further down the line." You look her dead in the eye, trying to get across how much this means to you, how much her wellbeing means to you. "I don't want that for you, okay? I won't say no, but I want to make sure you're doing this in the right way, yeah?"
 
We even have an example from a recent arc. The mage who grew the killer mold was caught by the forces of darkness when he burned out on the civil rights movement, and that partially led to his downfall.
 
My sauce is canon. Those things happened and at the end of the day Michael's family is still fine. That's because of the Angelic protection, another words it's author fait. The Angels don't have to be obvious about what they do in fact from what we've seen they typically aren't and need a pretty good reason to make themselves and their activities known.


If you are a family member of a Knight of the Cross you are probably aware of the supernatural anyway. That doesn't exclude you from Angelic protection. DragonParadox told us what we'd be allowing Daniel to give up. The protection would make zero sense if it only applied to the household. The protection detail to their families is supposed to stop them from getting killed by supernatural actors like the Denarians if they don't Choose to get involved of their own accord by exercising their Free Will.

Otherwise they'd simply be killed off on the street by a Denarian or Nicodemus plot because the Angelic protection would have an obvious and easy exploit and wouldn't be worth much of anything.

Now that Daniel gave it up, if a Denarian wants to jump him in the middle of the street, take his head off and present it to Micheal while he is occupied they are, theoretically, free to do so.
Okay, Daniel himself was going to void that protection (Spirit Quest) then if that's what you meant because he very specifically wanted to get involved in fighting the denarians and other Supernaturals and I saw no way of avoiding that that wasn't semi torturous or so l completely hypocritical.

All of which is unrelated to the Olivia situation which you said was similar or very least made inference that our thoughts might be similar on why we preach for inclusion or greater focus on the supernatural side.

I stand by what I said we can literally make Olivia pattern Fomori and let her train and organize them we don't need her acting as a liaison to the nobody Brigade for that. It may take her longer to do both of them immediately because she has to work around college but it really doesn't need to be a full-time job.
Thanks for the quote though I did not see the training bit.
The only thing I can do fair enough I chose my words poorly.
 
I think you have a bit of a hate boner for the Fellowship to be honest.
They're literally just a non-entity. For all intents and purposes we don't need them nor are they particularly useful in any way. So just spending any level of resource even if it's our Circle mates time on them feels kind of irritating.

It Feels Like Everything useful about them could be handed to us in a dossier and then we would never speak to them again and be no worse off for it and that's a terrible place for an organization to be.
 
They're literally just a non-entity. For all intents and purposes we don't need them nor are they particularly useful in any way. So just spending any level of resource even if it's our Circle mates time on them feels kind of irritating.

It Feels Like Everything useful about them could be handed to us in a dossier and then we would never speak to them again and be no worse off for it and that's a terrible place for an organization to be.
They are literally going to arrange a meeting for us off-screen.
 
Then don't say they "aren't particularly useful in any way. That isn't true.
Them arranging a meeting makes them particularly useful. Damn my cell phone must be amazingly useful and not at all replaceable by a billion other cell phones. That example is a bit laborious and hyperbolic but the stance remains. The meeting they are arranging for us is something we could have gotten for ourselves without them and also something we don't particularly need in general because we are the ones who can get the information to who is in the Reds pocket in the Colombian government not them.

Then again saving us time is one of the most useful things anyone can do at this point so sure.
 
@CuriousQuasit Just like the last time your stunt is beautiful. The base vote is the same so I won't bother approval voting.
Uh, okay, wow. I mean, I was pleased with what I'd written, of course, but "beautiful" is really high praise... :oops:

But yes, thank you! I know this is going to sound super pretentious even before I type it, but I always try to write these things with a sort of... humanistic ethos, I suppose would be the best way to put it? A focus on empathy and understanding, especially as regards why people do what they do.

I think it's good, I'll even vote for it. Not that it will change anything. But it's a good dialogue IMHO.
Wait, why won't it change anything? Unless I've misunderstood the way DP handles stunts, they get included unless they qualitatively change either what's being attempted by the base vote, or spend additional resources/limit options going forward in some way. @DragonParadox, that's correct, right?
 
Wait, why won't it change anything? Unless I've misunderstood the way DP handles stunts, they get included unless they qualitatively change either what's being attempted by the base vote, or spend additional resources/limit options going forward in some way. @DragonParadox, that's correct, right?

That is how the system works yeah. Good to see the the vote being active.

Good night guys, see you tomorrow with.... demonic pacts to deal with vampire addictions.
 
[X] Agree with Olivia's idea that she should liaise with the Fellowship in efforts to fight the Red Court,the first of a new kind of agent, taking advantage of your ability to awaken the Po
-[X] Set clear time frames and objectives for her assignment. Namely, provide a certain number of personnel trained and set mission deadlines.
-[X] Suggest that Olivia talk to other more experienced fighters for the Righteous Cause such as the Knights of the Cross who can advise her on how to properly balance fighting and life so as not to burn out and not become a victim of the enemy's manipulation.
--[X] STUNT: You look over at Olivia's fervent expression pensively for a moment, before jerking your head towards a nearby outcropping, well away from the ongoing arcane workings. "Sit with me a minute, would you?"
--[X] STUNT: Perched across from her on the unearthly stone, you take a moment to gather your thoughts before speaking. "Listen, I'm not going to tell you no on this: I know how it feels to need to do something like this, and I'm not that sort of hypocrite." You give a short, wry laugh before your expression grows serious again.
--[X] STUNT: Gently, you reach out to take her hands in your own. "But, Olivia... I want you to consider how you do this really carefully, okay? Throwing yourself into things like this, especially if you're throwing other things away? It can..." you trail off a moment, your mind flashing to Harry in some of his darker moments; and to your dad, and the worry you've seen Mom try to hide, alone at night in a dark and quiet kitchen. And then... to ice and fear and a little bit of mind magic done with the best of intentions, honest.
--[X] STUNT: "It can really fuck you up, okay? Sometimes in ways you don't realise until you're a lot further down the line." You look her dead in the eye, trying to get across how much this means to you, how much her wellbeing means to you. "I don't want that for you, okay? I won't say no, but I want to make sure you're doing this in the right way, yeah?"
 
Wait, why won't it change anything? Unless I've misunderstood the way DP handles stunts, they get included unless they qualitatively change either what's being attempted by the base vote, or spend additional resources/limit options going forward in some way. @DragonParadox, that's correct, right?
Oh yeah, the stunts. That might help yeah. Thanks for writing them again. And yeah, you're right.
 
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