Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

"That is a remarkable statement you understand," she says after a moment. "Beings, spirits, all have natures, all have wants that need filling, to deny them so utterly not by understanding, but simply by pledge is the domain of powers divine or otherworldly. Are you a god miss Carpenter?"
Lol found this while rereading the quest. I think Lara looks back on this moment with interesting emotions now...
Haven't acted in what way? We don't know what we don't know after all.
Attacked Molly and her bases or kidnapped Molly's loved ones.

But speaking of expectations...I wonder if anyone has any information about Devil Tigers on the Outsiders side. Because there is an interesting disconnect between the rules. According to those who may remember them, what Molly achieved requires Elder Essence aka above 5. But according to the new rules it is less. Yes, I know it is a question of game mechanics, but it is often not so easy to separate them in this setting. This also plays into the direction of a more cautious approach to Her.
 
capacity for action, in a world where souls area thing, this actually makes sense. One also has to remember that conservation of energy is a consequence of time translation symmetry, ie the fact that laws of nature don't change over time.
Magic has laws, but they aren't like normal physical ones.

For one thing, the fundamental laws do actually change for magic over time. It's explicitly a thing Bob keeps track of to help with his job.

That's why tech bane exists now and previously didn't. If you examine what's occurring there's a clear and objective cause, then one day that cause will stop having the same effect.
 
Well, as a first world nation, actually having a space program is almost a must. Hell, I bet no Court mortal ever walked on the surface of the Court moon. Something to potentially remedy. Who knows what it is made of.

The courts are technically speaking no first world nation.

They aren't on Earth, technically.

However...

Our people are, in all regards, extraterrestrials, no pretense needed.

Technically they aren't extraterrestrial either. They were all born in Molly's soul.

Which is on Earth.

Living with her parents, even.

...they are also technically US citizens I think.

We should contact the Library of Congress to clear that up.

I'm sure it will do amazing things to their blood pressure.
 
So what are the benefits of what we just did? Those rolls were well into the "exalt showing off" range, so I assume that there's something more here than what would have been done it'd been built without us.

This place would be a nightmare for even someone like a Denarian to break into and if they did it would make so much noise odds are very good you would be warned in time to confront them.
 
[X] [Psychic Invisibility] •••• Anchor Veil: Allows the Sorcerer to anchor an effect of similar strength to her Invisibility power to an area that hides a specific class of object: Innanimate object (1 Success); Non-Sentient living things (2 Successes); Sentient Beings (3 Successes); Sophonts (4 Successes). The size of the veil is 50 ft +50 ft/extra success
 
Magic has laws, but they aren't like normal physical ones.

For one thing, the fundamental laws do actually change for magic over time. It's explicitly a thing Bob keeps track of to help with his job.

That's why tech bane exists now and previously didn't. If you examine what's occurring there's a clear and objective cause, then one day that cause will stop having the same effect.
I am holding myself back from a non-productive rant. Let's say that you might be right, but "magic alienates you from normal population" changing its expression from milk curdling and you having warts to techbane is not a good evidence.
[] [Pcychoportation] •••• Skip-Gate: For the following 5 hours confers upon the Sorcerer the ability create a 'wake' of distorted space behind her when she teleports by spending 1 Mana which permits one other character to join her on by standing where she stood. Duration of each individual 'wake' is 1 Turn/2 Ritual successes. These can be chained together if the Sorcerer keeps spending extra Mana.
So, how hard would it be to make those permanent? Possibly anchored to a prodigy (NOT splendor) / mortal artifice? Also, how is Olivia learning (potentially) a 4 dot ritual when she is at 3 dots of the path?
 
In medieval setting. This isn't one. Like, I am half expecting moon nazis. And remind everyone that Lovedrart basically wrote non-fiction in DFverse. And he wrote a lot about aliens. though personally I hope that Edgar Rice Burroughs is more right in how Mars is.

Not that I want to make it a priority, but it's a neat possibility
Bro i am telling you, if we make a spaceship, this will be a sci fi quest not urban fantasy quest.
 
Our people are, in all regards, extraterrestrials, no pretense needed.

As are any inhabitants of the nevernever and all outsiders.

Since extraterrestrial just means: doesn't come from Earth.

Technically they aren't extraterrestrial either. They were all born in Molly's soul.

Which is on Earth.

In the interest of tax evasion metaphorical advantages, Molly's soul is actually in her soul and not on earth. Yes, I do know what I wrote and stand by it. :V
 
Adhoc vote count started by Anaja on Dec 31, 2024 at 6:00 AM, finished with 47 posts and 6 votes.

  • [X] [Psychic Invisibility] •••• Anchor Veil: Allows the Sorcerer to anchor an effect of similar strength to her Invisibility power to an area that hides a specific class of object: Innanimate object (1 Success); Non-Sentient living things (2 Successes); Sentient Beings (3 Successes); Sophonts (4 Successes). The size of the veil is 50 ft +50 ft/extra success
    [X] [Mana Manipulation] ••• Core Tap: Allows the Sorcerer to directly convert mana into energy in the form of flame (2 Successes) Ionized plasma (3 successes) or gravitation (5 successes). The ward must be connected to a leyline to function. +1 Success is required for every 10 miles distance from a ley line in which it is set up. The size of the ward is 50 ft +50 ft/extra success
 
Regarding Olivia, I understand the desire to give her more power so that she can remain at least nominally useful next to two Exalts and a Demon. The problem is partly that we have shared experience and partly that Olivia doesn't have a super cool splat.

Honestly, the only valid way out is to really give her a new splat, aka change her from a mortal to something else. The question of what is of course open. If she could be a full-fledged mage, it would of course not be so important. Full-fledged mages are quite strong and, thanks to their flexibility, more than worthy allies for Exalts.
 
Regarding Olivia, I understand the desire to give her more power so that she can remain at least nominally useful next to two Exalts and a Demon. The problem is partly that we have shared experience and partly that Olivia doesn't have a super cool splat.

Honestly, the only valid way out is to really give her a new splat, aka change her from a mortal to something else. The question of what is of course open. If she could be a full-fledged mage, it would of course not be so important. Full-fledged mages are quite strong and, thanks to their flexibility, more than worthy allies for Exalts.
The lore-based path to getting Olivia power is to get in contact with her divine ancestor, and get them to boost her. And/or conquer Lanka and put her on the throne as a vassal queen.
 
The lore-based path to getting Olivia power is to get in contact with her divine ancestor, and get them to boost her. And/or conquer Lanka and put her on the throne as a vassal queen.
I'll leave the complications of letting a deity from that particular pantheon empower the servant of another great power, with a very hellish feeling. And focus on the other part Yog, do you even know that she wants to be the queen of Lanka? This is not a light thing to ask because it would not be her soul creating a world and cosplay like hell, it willl be a true hell, where souls must suffer to cleanse their sins as natural law speak, and where she would have 999 other rivals equal in power certainly thinking that she is the weakest and can be literally eaten easier, not to mention all the Elders of the Jade Court who want to be Yama Kings and will certainly go against the newbie. We should just absorb them all when we start the Infernals' Main Quest: Demon Emperor of the Sixth Age in earnest.

She can't split up like we can, so she'll have to stay insideLanka managing everything to avoid betrayal, whether from outside or inside. She won't be able to leave for the mortal world easily, because besides DP talking about how Mikaboshi literally carried his entire realm on his back when he did that, she'll become terribly weaker, the perfect target for anyone who wants to try to kill something of the angelic class, without trying to manipulate things for very specific circumstances, to steal her throne.

And this has nothing to do with her dream of acting and protecting the population of small practitioners.

I have to agree with @BronzeTongue that it seems like an idiotic attempt at mix-max, especially when there's nothing saying that all our companions have to have the bigatons or importance of Exalteds. She's already great as an assassin and will get even better with rituals.
 
I think the goal of making Olivia a god is a bit maximalism. But giving her an enlightened Essence and maybe making her a wizard would be good. And I think it can be done without major breaks in logic and min max. And then in the future, who knows what awaits her.
 
This place would be a nightmare for even someone like a Denarian to break into and if they did it would make so much noise odds are very good you would be warned in time to confront them.
Someone like a Denarian?

That's an okay start, but considering how those assholes rarely work alone.


I have to agree with @BronzeTongue that it seems like an idiotic attempt at mix-max, especially when there's nothing saying that all our companions have to have the bigatons or importance of Exalteds. She's already great as an assassin and will get even better with rituals.
Idiotic is a bit much. Incongruous and ill-fitting seems more appropriate.


I think the goal of making Olivia a god is a bit maximalism. But giving her an enlightened Essence and maybe making her a wizard would be good. And I think it can be done without major breaks in logic and min max. And then in the future, who knows what awaits her.
Wizardry is a gift that mortals give themselves, it can't be handed down by others. Especially while she's using fomori stuff.

That isn't to say she can't be a very powerful magic user though. The high Sidhe aren't wizards either, but that doesn't stop Lea from manifesting enchanted armor out of ectoplasm in the back of a car, turning people into dogs, and whipping out world class evocation.

My vision of Olivia's potential paths is anchored in her status as the founder of a new species perfectly adapted to the new age of the world. One that will be highly influenced by her personal relationship with her power and experiences as a minor talent.

She can grow powerful in that, and each milestone would set down a path for those whole follow her.
 
Wizardry is a gift that mortals give themselves, it can't be handed down by others. Especially while she's using fomori stuff.
In my opinion, your path does not have any strictly game-mechanical support. Who will she be then from the ready-made things or are you planning to write her own power guide? I also do not think that you are necessarily right that Olivia cannot be a full wizard. Especially because of her demonic powers.
 
Wizardry is a gift that mortals give themselves, it can't be handed down by others. Especially while she's using fomori stuff.
Theoretically yes, magical awakening, perfect immortality, creating entirely new forms of supernatural being that are self-sustaining are all within the grasp of alchemy. Practically that is not something that is easy to make even if you have the dots for it (Alchemy 5) and it requires rare and valuable reagents
This is before we get into ancient sorcery.
My vision of Olivia's potential paths is anchored in her status as the founder of a new species perfectly adapted to the new age of the world. One that will be highly influenced by her personal relationship with her power and experiences as a minor talent.

She can grow powerful in that, and each milestone would set down a path for those whole follow her.
She's really not though we can make more Olivia pattern fomori but she has no way of propagating that isn't us which means we are the founder of the species and to be honest we can extinct the species on a literal whim.

All of this on top of the fact she still using human magic for most supernatural powers and not her species specific stuff.

Also Wizards(Mages) at least as far as world of darkness is concerned can also be fomori.
Werewolf 20th anniversary edition Book of Wyrm pg.144 said:
Mages, for all that they dabble in powers Gaia did not intend for humanity, remain fundamentally human. As such, they're susceptible to Bane possession, and all the horrors that come with it.
 
On the topic of Olivianoids, think that we should make more of them soon? Printing the template out is supposed to be easier now that we've defined one, and they'd work very well together in groups.
In my opinion, your path does not have any strictly game-mechanical support. Who will she be then from the ready-made things or are you planning to write her own power guide? I also do not think that you are necessarily right that Olivia cannot be a full wizard. Especially because of her demonic powers.
We were told she was the founder of a species, and that as she matured there would be options to get more powers/merits like unaging.

What I'm talking about is building something like a vampire lineage where her sorcery powers and merits form the basis of the "splat" and she takes from thematic advancing supernatural abilities. There's even a merit for making a custom vampire discipline to prove our doing that if we really get into it.

On full wizardry, barring DP overriding canon on this very explicitly that's how it works. Nonhuman entities can give you their power, but proper wizardry is a special unique power of humanity they cannot access themselves. They can be more powerful, but the breadth and flexibility of wizards compared to every other supernatural is why they're a world power of their own even in a room of monsters who've personally been gathering strength for millennia.

You can gain enough power to effectively explode wizards on command via demonic pacts, but you can't get the Sight that way.


This is before we get into ancient sorcery
I forgot about that ruling. I'd put that in the category of overriding canon though.


She's really not though we can make more Olivia pattern fomori but she has no way of propagating that isn't us which means we are the founder of the species and to be honest we can extinct the species on a literal whim.

All of this on top of the fact she still using human magic for most supernatural powers and not her species specific stuff.

Also Wizards(Mages) at least as far as world of darkness is concerned can also be fomori.
Give me a bit to look, but I'm pretty sure DP explicitly called her that. She's just a whamp style critter now, so her means of propagation absent our intervention is the same as baseline humanity's.

Per a ruling @Yog got she's also not done growing, so she might gain the ability to share her gift less biologically depending on how things go.

WoD and DF aren't the same, and this is supposed to be the DF setting using WoD mechanics for the most part. That's why we have a council of paradox free archmages active on earth.

DF wizards can become other things, and depending on how far they go the gift either stays with them or becomes something else. That doesn't mean you can go the other way and specifically become a wizard using demon powers.

Minor talents don't evolve into wizards. They can equal them in their areas of focus, but fundamentally this is like trying to feed a bobcat until it grows into a lion.
 
On full wizardry, barring DP overriding canon on this very explicitly that's how it works. Nonhuman entities can give you their power, but proper wizardry is a special unique power of humanity they cannot access themselves. They can be more powerful, but the breadth and flexibility of wizards compared to every other supernatural is why they're a world power of their own even in a room of monsters who've personally been gathering strength for millennia.

Keep in mind Alchemy is also something humans do, being a good enough alchemist that you can turn yourself from minor talent into a wizard would be a legendary feat, but it's something the council is aware of. They have even had a handful of members who went that way.
 
We were told she was the founder of a species, and that as she matured there would be options to get more powers/merits like unaging.

What I'm talking about is building something like a vampire lineage where her sorcery powers and merits form the basis of the "splat" and she takes from thematic advancing supernatural abilities. There's even a merit for making a custom vampire discipline to prove our doing that if we really get into it.
Ok. Then we'll see when it comes to that. I'm not even saying that we'll give her talent. I think there are hints that Olivia already has potential. But that's still a long way off. We still have a lot to do in this regard, like the god of the city. Or a personal Manse.
 
Keep in mind Alchemy is also something humans do, being a good enough alchemist that you can turn yourself from minor talent into a wizard would be a legendary feat, but it's something the council is aware of. They have even had a handful of members who went that way.
I don't see how that squares with anything from the DF, but okay. The only way that's ever shown is basically eating other people's talent, and even then the people involved couldn't make themselves wizards by eating a sufficient number of sorcerers, they went for the full fat version.

Mind clarifying on the species stuff with Olivia as well?

If we want to make more of them does the template make it easier to buy skills she has? Does she qualify for merits like the custom discipline power thing from VtM if we have the EXP, allowing her a clan specialty?

Or is this more of a fluff thing that has importance in the story but not on the character sheets?
 
Keep in mind Alchemy is also something humans do, being a good enough alchemist that you can turn yourself from minor talent into a wizard would be a legendary feat, but it's something the council is aware of. They have even had a handful of members who went that way.
I suspect this is why the Philosopher's Stone as Magnum Opus is so coveted. But could you elaborate on how this works? Are the sorcery paths converted to Spheres or do they remain?
 
I don't see how that squares with anything from the DF, but okay. The only way that's ever shown is basically eating other people's talent, and even then the people involved couldn't make themselves wizards by eating a sufficient number of sorcerers, they went for the full fat version.

That would be one way to pass the rare ingredients bar, though not one that will get you into the council

Mind clarifying on the species stuff with Olivia as well?

If we want to make more of them does the template make it easier to buy skills she has? Does she qualify for merits like the custom discipline power thing from VtM if we have the EXP, allowing her a clan specialty?

Or is this more of a fluff thing that has importance in the story but not on the character sheets?

She already had the Po Arts as her custom discipline and there is no clan discipline because she is the first, though depending on how her story goes people who follow her her footsteps may get that XP discount.

I suspect this is why the Philosopher's Stone as Magnum Opus is so coveted. But could you elaborate on how this works? Are the sorcery paths converted to Spheres or do they remain?

They get converted, your magic expands, there is no reason to have both free form and limited magic
 
That would be one way to pass the rare ingredients bar, though not one that will get you into the council
They're fundamentally different things though, I don't see how this follows from what we see of the setting.
She already had the Po Arts as her custom discipline and there is no clan discipline because she is the first, though depending on how her story goes people who follow her her footsteps may get that XP discount.
Not trying to pin everything down, but I'm not sure I understand what this means in terms of our application.

If we vote to make her a handful of subordinates to guard the fort for us or something, would there be any practical difference from being the second generation instead of the first?
 
Not trying to pin everything down, but I'm not sure I understand what this means in terms of our application.

If we vote to make her a handful of subordinates to guard the fort for us or something, would there be any practical difference from being the second generation instead of the first?

Not initially, though as Olivia develops her own legend the will find it easier to buy certain learn disciplines she already has.
 
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