Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

20th anniversary books are used where applicable for the sake of maintaining coherence so yes you do get those bonuses for a full month, though I will add you can only have bonus dice from one spirit at a time.
No, you are mistaken.
Its a daylong bonus for everyone who is involved in the Rite/spell. Its not used continuously either; the caern needs time to recover after each time its used this way.

To quote
I found guidance on this in some of the Player's Guides (I was checking on another thing and stumbled upon it). I guess I should have checked there first, but stupid me, I thought the actual description of the rite in the Corebook would be sufficient.

I can forgive the first edition corebook not being complete in this sense. There are always things you forget to mention, or don't think about. But there is a lot of information "trapped" in the Players Guides and elsewhere that should have been incorporated into subsequent editions of the corebook. This is just bad editing and bad management.

Anyway, this is what we're told in the second edition guide:
  • Customarily, each success equals one bonus die to be distributed among the characters as she sees fit. If the bonus could go to more than one dice pool, the affected pool must be chosen when the bonus is awarded.
  • Typically, these bonus dice have an effective duration of one day and may not be saved up.
  • A player may benefit from a specific power only once during a single day, so if the player is awarded more bonus dice in the same area, he loses any bonus he may already have had.
  • A caern can be utilized a number of times during a single day equal to its rank level. Thus, a Rank 4 caern can be accessed only four times before it is drained and in need of a recharging. There is no special procedure for recharging a caern; simply leaving it alone for an interval is all that is required.
  • During times of desperate circumstance, a caern can be called upon for more endowment, but only at great risk. If the ritemaster attempts to draw additional bonus dice from a caern that has already been drained, the difficulty rises by 1.
This provides good guidance.

Besides answering my questions in terms of how long the bonus lasts (up to 24 hours), and how many times it can be used (only once); it also tells how many times a caern can be opened (up to its rank level per day), as well as stating the bonus dice can be distributed among multiple people (I'm assuming they must all be participants of the rite).


We're not told of any restrictions on the use of the bonus dice. The rite description clearly says "when performing actions appropriate to the caern's focus." I think it's possible for someone to perform an appropriate action and also having it be self-serving (as Heinrich said). But it's open whether the above is just flavor text, or if its actually restrictive in some way.

I'm initially inclined to believe that this is a real restriction. Therefore, as an ST, if I didn't think the action was appropriate, and the player could not provide a good reason, I'm inclined to say no bonus happens. There will be dispute on this of course, but I used as a guide whether I think the caern totem would approve the use of the bonus. But I would also see the point of players that say it is up to the Garou to determine how it's used. And I'd be open to being converted to that point of view.

The Players Guides seems to imply that only the sept Master of Rite (or some other sept official) performs this rite. I think others should be able to as well. Otherwise, there is no reason for a PC to learn this rite except in preparation to hold that sept position. However, I do think the Master of Rite effectively controls who can open the caern, as that sept position determines who is allowed to performed what rites at the caern.

I have a copy of the 2nd Edition Players Guide p104, so I can confirm, as can anyone else who looks up the book.
I just am not inclined to type out at least half a page of text, because my copy does not allow for cut and paste.

Remember that the 20th anniversary books generally arent that much different from the prior books; specifically, the Caerns list in W20 is essentially lifted wholesale from the Second Edition core book p170.
There's a reason why we can still use books like the various Tribe books and Sorcerer Revised and the Bygone Bestiary or Axis Mundi as references.
 
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Whatever his color may have been, if he even had one was obscured by the green flames of the Exaltation accelerating time in that particular moment so she could go through the chrysalis in time to fight the Scarecrow.

Alright. Then everything we have is manlike, androgynous, hairless, and black eyes with no pupils, which all indicate either Neomah or one of unnumbered demonic races that existed in Malfeas without being mentioned in a book.

Edit: Neomah are also Malfean in origin, the creation of one of his souls. Specifically, the indulgent soul of Ligier. All together, I'd bet Neomah.
 
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That would make the rite basically useless and not worth every getting.
Thats how it apparently works though.

Its not meant to give you or your pack persistent bonuses, its supposed to be a limited duration, situational bonus.
And each time you tried the Rite to get it, there was the risk of failure.
Persistent dice bonuses were the sort of thing you got from totems.

There's only so far you can stack non-attribute dice bonuses before the game becomes unplayable.
Especially since ExWoD has no dice cap.
 
Thats how it apparently works though.

Its not meant to give you or your pack persistent bonuses, its supposed to be a limited duration, situational bonus.
And each time you tried the Rite to get it, there was the risk of failure.
Persistent dice bonuses were the sort of thing you got from totems.

There's only so far you can stack non-attribute dice bonuses before the game becomes unplayable.
Especially since ExWoD has no dice cap.
The descriptions of the rites in 2nd and 20th edition are different. 20th edition buffed the rite. This is quite clear. And ExvsWoD explicitly makes the effect month-long.
 
I assume what usum is will probably forever be unknown to us in all honesty. Same way we will probably never know the greater secrets of the age of legends or how the fuck it ended or what God is. Just greater background shit I'm curious about ooc. Hey offhand do you have background written up somewhere dp for how all of that stuff happened? Cause despite the age of legends being a fucked up and tumultuous time some big shit had to have happened for it to end.

Also the formation of the gates which probably happened during this earth given the background lore of canon dresden files. For time travel to be made possible a lot of the work of the first age exalted host had to be undone and primordials and possibly autobot. Whatever the fuck God is because hes certainly bigger as an entity than any single canon primordial. My bet is an amalgamation of entities are what formed God.
 
which the potion renders unnecessary.
Fixed.
I have a copy of the 2nd Edition Players Guide p104, so I can confirm, as can anyone else who looks up the book.
I just am not inclined to type out at least half a page of text, because my copy does not allow for cut and paste.
Yeah this not at all how Caerns work in werewolf 20 I Read that and It isn't like they what was described mechanically in 20th anniversary.
Werewolf the Apocalypse -20th Anniversery Edition Pg.311 said:
System: Each caern has a Caern Rating between 1 and 5 that reflects the potency of effects that can be enacted there. For example, a Level One healing caern might refresh and heal minor wounds, while a Level Five one could miraculously heal the most grievous wounds. The higher a caern's rating is, the farther its moon bridges can reach. Thus, the greatest heroes of the Garou Nation have opportunities to travel to sacred places in the most distant corners of the Earth. Caerns with higher ratings tend to attract a greater diversity of tribes, travelers, and heroes.
The higher a caern's rating is, the lower the rating of its Gauntlet will be. Level One and Level Two caerns have a Gauntlet of 4, Level Three and Level Four caerns have a Gauntlet of 3, and at Level Five, the most powerful caerns have a Gauntlet of 2. The presence of many Garou becomes essential in the most powerful caerns, since the veil between worlds is thin, allowing spirits to enter the world more freely. Level One through Three caerns can create a moon bridge reaching for 1000 miles (1600 km) per caern level. A Level Four caern's moon bridge reaches for up to 6000 miles (9,700 km); at Level Five, up to 10,000 miles (16,000 km).
So they very specifically went out of their way not reuse that.
The descriptions of the rites in 2nd and 20th edition are different. 20th edition buffed the rite. This is quite clear. And ExvsWoD explicitly makes the effect month-long.
This is true
Werewolf the Apocalypse - 20th Anniversery Edition Pg.206 said:
Rite of the Opened Caern
Level One
Each caern has a specific power associated with it, generally of a beneficial nature. Thus, there are caerns of Rage, caerns of Gnosis, Strength, Enigmas, and so on. If a character is knowledgeable enough, she may tap into the caern's power and use it herself. Doing so is commonly known as "opening" a caern. Such a feat shouldn't be attempted lightly — Gaia's sacred places don't give up their power easily, and failure to harness such power can seriously harm the Garou.

Each caern has its own requirements of the ritemaster. In order to open a caern of Enigmas, a Garou might walk a spiral path while calling out the Greek myth of Persephone; to open a caern of Rage, the Garou might change into Crinos and chant the litany of his ancestors
who have fallen in battle against the Wyrm. The key is forging a connection to the particular spirit of the caern.
Exalted Versus World of Darkness Revised pg.40 said:
Awakened Eye of the Dragon
This hour-long ritual awakens the spiritual Essence of a Dragon Nest and grants its blessing to the Exalt and her companions for one full cycle of the moon.
System: Spend 5 Essence to begin the ritual, and roll Wits + Occult (difficulty 7) to contest with the spirit of the Dragon Nest. It is otherwise identical to the Rite of the Opened Caern (see Werewolf 20th Anniversary edition, p. 206).
 
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@Yog
Alright so firstly "by rage recast: Extra Limbs" can you explain it? From what I understand it's supposed to allow one to take multiple actions without penalty but I want to make sure I have that right.

Proxy Servant Protocol

"The infernal spends 1 essence and rolls charisma+leadership. She then selects up to that number of willing allies within the scene to effect for the remainder of it. Whenever they make a roll, the Infernal may choose to act instead, substituting their appropriate dice pools for her own, and rolling at the same difficulty as they would have had. Multiple actions performed through this Charm suffer a climbing dice pool penalty similar to normal multiple actions rule.


It sounds really good but I have to say, I can very easily see this resulting in needless mote expenditure with us wanting a perfect or better result from an ally instead of an adequate/sufficient one and spending motes on their rolls that would be better allocated elsewhere for Molly's own actions and Charms.



Treading the Golden path

"While in places that are either spiritually desolate or harsh enough to impose environmental penalties the infernal regenerates essence at half the rate she would in a dragon nest."

What was the regen rate in Dragon Nest that we own? 1 mote every 15min? So then the regen rate would be 1 mote every 7-8 minutes when in an environment that would normally impose environmental penalties? Or would that only apply to ones that we own because I think I recall the regen rate being 1 every 30minutes for dragon nest that we don't own.


"Additionally, if she possesses Five Paths, One Ring and is making use of the shift of journeys at the time she may recover her essence rating in motes when subjected to an environment she hasn't experienced in the last day."

I forgot we even had that. I think we've only ever used it once and I can't recall if it was intentional or if the GM just remembered we had it and applied it.

What is "shift of journeys"? I know what shifts are as defined in the charm description but it sounds like this is referring to a specific type.



"Finally, when moving to a new environment she hasn't been to in the last day, she receives a -1 DC for the first scene in the new environment."

Sounds like it could be useful in some niche cases..

Overall aside from the first aspect this charm sounds like it would be a bitch and a half to actually keep track of whether or not it should be triggering but I'm not a GM so I don't know.


I could drop Ox Body and go for politics 2 instead. This gives us 1 free dot, which could go to Tiffany, bringing her to 3 free XP. If we drop Counterspell: Vampire, we could either boost Lore of Humanity to 2 points, or... I am unsure, and would like input here.
I think it makes little sense to get another Ox Body for Molly right now because of diminishing returns and we bought another stage for Shintai recently and haven't used it yet. I would put it into politics instead maybe, but on the face of it I'm struggling to find a reason to get another Ox Body right now for 3 XP when there are other things, beyond the notion that more health never hurts to have I'm not seeing the vision for it.


The descriptions of the rites in 2nd and 20th edition are different. 20th edition buffed the rite. This is quite clear. And ExvsWoD explicitly makes the effect month-long.
@DragonParadox Would the effect be month long? Seeing some contradicting statements on this.

Edit: Formatting got screwed with.
 
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@DragonParadox Would the effect be month long? Seeing some contradicting statements on this.

Core Book said:
Awakened Eye of the Dragon
This hour-long ritual awakens the spiritual Essence of a Dragon Nest and grants its blessing to the Exalt and her companions for one full cycle of the moon.
System: Spend 5 Essence to begin the ritual, and roll Wits + Occult (difficulty 7) to contest with the spirit of the Dragon Nest. It is otherwise identical to the Rite of the Opened Caern (see Werewolf 20th Anniversary edition, p. 206).

Core Book trumps W20, W20 trumps what came before it. It lasts a month. The only limit is any one person can only have one and the blessing can be dispelled more easily than charms since it's the spirit giving you the blessing.
 
@Yog
Alright so firstly "by rage recast: Extra Limbs" can you explain it? From what I understand it's supposed to allow one to take multiple actions without penalty but I want to make sure I have that right.

Proxy Servant Protocol

"The infernal spends 1 essence and rolls charisma+leadership. She then selects up to that number of willing allies within the scene to effect for the remainder of it. Whenever they make a roll, the Infernal may choose to act instead, substituting their appropriate dice pools for her own, and rolling at the same difficulty as they would have had. Multiple actions performed through this Charm suffer a climbing dice pool penalty similar to normal multiple actions rule.


It sounds really good but I have to say, I can very easily see this resulting in needless mote expenditure with us wanting a perfect or better result from an ally instead of an adequate/sufficient one and spending motes on their rolls that would be better allocated elsewhere for Molly's own actions and Charms.
The two charms are meant to synergy very well. Proxy Servant Protocol includes difficulty lock, and By Rage Recast locks dice pools to prevent them from shrinking. PSP is a scene-long effect, so it shouldn't be too essence intensive.

The idea is this: PSP on minions. This gives them our dicepools, and locks the difficulty to what their action would have been. Normally, Molly's dice pool would be shrinking for each action per turn. But By Rage Recast prevents that. So, unlimited actions, but no multiple attacks. Also battlefield communications, which is vital. If you add EMH (Emergency MInion Hologram), then the combined effect is very strong.
Treading the Golden path

"While in places that are either spiritually desolate or harsh enough to impose environmental penalties the infernal regenerates essence at half the rate she would in a dragon nest."

What was the regen rate in Dragon Nest that we own? 1 mote every 15min? So then the regen rate would be 1 mote every 7-8 minutes when in an environment that would normally impose environmental penalties? Or would that only apply to ones that we own because I think I recall the regen rate being 1 every 30minutes for dragon nest that we don't own.
One mote per half hour, not one mote 7 minutes, I think. Half the rate = double the time.
I forgot we even had that. I think we've only ever used it once and I can't recall if it was intentional or if the GM just remembered we had it and applied it.

What is "shift of journeys"? I know what shifts are as defined in the charm description but it sounds like this is referring to a specific type.
It means that we are using one of the following abilities:
The Golden City: Survival, Brawl, Awareness, Streetwise, Animal Ken, Drive

"Finally, when moving to a new environment she hasn't been to in the last day, she receives a -1 DC for the first scene in the new environment."

Sounds like it could be useful in some niche cases..

Overall aside from the first aspect this charm sounds like it would be a bitch and a half to actually keep track of whether or not it should be triggering but I'm not a GM so I don't know.
I have run it past GM, and the players will probably keep track of it at least somewhat. It's meant to be somewhat like BSM in its versatility.
I think it makes little sense to get another Ox Body for Molly right now because of diminishing returns and we bought another stage for Shintai recently and haven't used it yet. I would put it into politics instead maybe, but on the face of it I'm struggling to find a reason to get another Ox Body right now for 3 XP when there are other things, beyond the notion that more health never hurts to have I'm not seeing the vision for it.
I am not very enthused about Ox Body, but it's basically there to satisfy "improve defenses" urge. We are staying above the difficulty curve. We cannot afford a Perfect Defense right now (well, we can take BME, but people are not enthused about it), so that's the next best thing.
 
Thats how it apparently works though.

Its not meant to give you or your pack persistent bonuses, its supposed to be a limited duration, situational bonus.
And each time you tried the Rite to get it, there was the risk of failure.
Persistent dice bonuses were the sort of thing you got from totems.

There's only so far you can stack non-attribute dice bonuses before the game becomes unplayable.
Especially since ExWoD has no dice cap.
Not worth getting or using, Dragonnest are under constant attack. If you already gone thou the effort to secure a Dragonnest, fighting off the enemies gunning for it a 1-5 boost to a single roll is worthless as your already powerful enough for such a minor thing to be irrelevant.
 
Yeah this not at all how Caerns work in werewolf 20 I Read that and It isn't like they what was described mechanically in 20th anniversary.
Did you read the rest of the writeup on Caerns in the book(s)?
Its the same thing. Second Edition specifically goes into detail about what you get from types of Caerns, and they're the same.
The range of the Moon Bridges are the same.

The only difference is that W20 appears to leave shit out for brevity's sake, because word count.

Core Book trumps W20, W20 trumps what came before it. It lasts a month. The only limit is any one person can only have one and the blessing can be dispelled more easily than charms since it's the spirit giving you the blessing.
Holden, the guy who deliberately got rid of most Wonders and Artifacts and stuff that historically buffed dicepools?

Like, if you follow the through line with his decisions, they appear to have been balanced around not allowing Exalts to maintain large/superhuman dicepools at rest.
And even in combat, you have to manage resources to raise your dicepools temporarily.

Anyway, I need to go take a family member for a medical procedure, so going AFK for several hours.
Will be back to vote in the evening, hopefully.

EDIT
Not worth getting or using, Dragonnest are under constant attack. If you already gone thou the effort to secure a Dragonnest, fighting off the enemies gunning for it a 1-5 boost to a single roll is worthless as your already powerful enough for such a minor thing to be irrelevant.
1)Dragons Nests arent under constant attack, even in WTA.

2) In a fight, a 1-5 boost to a single roll can be decisive, depending on what roll it is.
But not all Caerns give fight bonuses; some provide bonuses to crafting, to gathering intel, to healing.
 
Did you read the rest of the writeup on Caerns in the book(s)?
Its the same thing. Second Edition specifically goes into detail about what you get from types of Caerns, and they're the same.
The range of the Moon Bridges are the same.

The only difference is that W20 appears to leave shit out for brevity's sake, because word count.
That other parts of the write-up are the same or similar is not proof that everything has to be the same. The text differs.
 
Holden, the guy who deliberately got rid of most Wonders and Artifacts and stuff that historically buffed dicepools?

Like, if you follow the through line with his decisions, they appear to have been balanced around not allowing Exalts to maintain large/superhuman dicepools at rest.
And even in combat, you have to manage resources to raise your dicepools temporarily.

Anyway, I need to go take a family member for a medical procedure, so going AFK for several hours.
Will be back to vote in the evening, hopefully.

It's explicit text, I'm not going to ret-con it

Sorry to hear that. Hope they'll get well soon.
 
PSP is a scene-long effect, so it shouldn't be too essence intensive.
...

*Sigh*

I guess this depends on your perspective on how the thread manages mote economy.

So let me ask this; If someone proposes that we spend a mote and apply it for a scene of group combat not knowing whether or not its actually needed but thinking "it's good to have the option" in a paranoid sense, what exactly is stopping the thread from choosing to do so every single time we have a party that's entering combat in a new scene until we have too low motes to justify it?

When dealing with repeated scenes of combat like say Boston Arc or the White Council Arc we typically end with very low motes and that's without this sort of charm thrown in.


The idea is this: PSP on minions. This gives them our dicepools, and locks the difficulty to what their action would have been. Normally, Molly's dice pool would be shrinking for each action per turn. But By Rage Recast prevents that. So, unlimited actions, but no multiple attacks. Also battlefield communications, which is vital. If you add EMH (Emergency MInion Hologram), then the combined effect is very strong.
Okay I understand.

Battlefield communications are vital but your framing it as if 99% of the setting doesn't make do without telepathic comms (including us as you can just use a phone or open your mouth most of the time as we do) and Sophia facilitates this to an extent if we have her around.

EMH... Doesn't that cost a mote per hologram to make them physical and cost a mote to even get the non-physical holograms to start with? I'm not seeing how it's very strong compared to using minions that don't cost a mote per body to make real and an initial mote to project non-physical bodies and all expire after the scene is over.

Using these in conjunction like this just seems wasteful the vast majority of the time. Molly is predominantly not a minion swarm fighter.

One mote per half hour, not one mote 7 minutes, I think. Half the rate = double the time.
It means that we are using one of the following abilities:
The Golden City: Survival, Brawl, Awareness, Streetwise, Animal Ken, Drive
Okay. That's way less useful than I thought for effective regen.

I have run it past GM, and the players will probably keep track of it at least somewhat. It's meant to be somewhat like BSM in its versatility.
I don't see the players doing that. It's has too specific activation requirements. If the GM thinks he can keep track of it then sure but I certainly have my doubts here.


I am not very enthused about Ox Body, but it's basically there to satisfy "improve defenses" urge. We are staying above the difficulty curve. We cannot afford a Perfect Defense right now (well, we can take BME, but people are not enthused about it), so that's the next best thing.
Hmm.. I would really just replace it with politics since in my mind that stat would be used defensively as much as offensively and it's severely lacking, moreso than our health bar.

I don't think many are enthused about another Ox Body right now to be honest. There isn't an anticipated need for us to be even tankier right now. Partly because again we have a super saiyan 2 equivalent to fight bosses with that we paid for but haven't bothered to use yet and probably won't for a good minute. It really does just seem like a miss-allocation of resources.
 
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I have to admit that I don't see Ox-body as much of a replacement for a perfect defense.

The fights till now shows we don't need more health, and more health doesn't work on the problems a perfect would close anyway.

Now, what is the cost of that perfect that cracks reality or something? I am pretty sure it is the one that most people could agree to take.

Particularly since its main advantage is that its flaw makes it cost more, not not work at all.
 
Particularly since its main advantage is that its flaw makes it cost more, not not work at all.
That's what I was trying to say to Uju earlier. It doesn't have a prior condition to apply. You just need to be able to pay for it which is the case for any of them and with our Occult being what it is we probably wouldn't be paying the increased cost when it does get used unless I misunderstand what not recognizing the attack means.

Also like Cavalar said it can work for multiple attacks from the same guy instead of just one and allows us to block those attacks which need a Perfect Defense with our body to protect party members and VIPs.
 
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That's what I was trying to say to Uju earlier. It doesn't have a prior condition to apply. You just need to be able to pay for it which is the case for any of them and with our Occult being what it is we probably wouldn't be paying the increased cost when it does get used unless I misunderstand what not recognizing the attack means.

Also like Cavalar said it can work for multiple attacks from the same guy instead of just one and allows us to block those attacks which need a Perfect Defense with our body to protect party managers and VIPs.

I have checked the charm in the rule book.

It does have a cost problem in that it's a 4 dot one and the other propositions are 3, it's also not a favored hell I think.

But the advantages are pretty clear. Perfect without flaw for only one more essence if you don't know what is attacking you at all? Turn long for a single source for two essence at base?

Yes thank you I want it.

And from what I remember of previous discussions, I am not the only one.

Edit:

And you are right to point out our occult making the flaw even less important.

I think it wouldn't have procked at any point in the quest in fact.
 
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