Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

The Gate Within​
18th of February 2007 A.D.
COMMENTARY
Tessa is on a greatest hits tour I guess, trying to relive the days when she and her husband killed a third of Europe with the Black Plague. Either that, or she's trying to show Nicodemus up after the failure of HIS magic plague plot.

Magog again. A little surprised that they paired up the brute with a doctor.
Apparently Outsider mojo can help bolster the willpower of a Denarian host sufficiently that the Fallen Angel cannot actually stop him doing as he chooses with the power he gets.

And it implies that either Magog was onboard with the whole plague plan, or that he wasnt but the Rules did not allow him to withdraw power he had already extended to the ringer who was his host. It also means that whatever information the Fallen may freely share between each other, their communication with their hosts, what they are allowed to tell them, is more limited.

Interesting look at a Senior Council member, and a reminder that the White Council has global duties to pursue even during their ongoing war.
And another lesser Walker made it into reality, however briefly.


As a tangent, Im reasonably sure the body/bones of a mortal demonhost count as crafting components.
Molly is just going to go Ew, though. Which is reasonable.
I wonder if we looted that mordite from South America......
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Tessa in this case was played, she wanted to make a plague and she did not do her due diligence when she came upon a plague-making wizard scale talent seemingly perfect for her purposes so now she lost Maggog and she has to go over her organization with a fine toothed comb to make sure she does not have any more Old One cultists. That is the reason Rashid did not kill her on the spot (or attempt to at least).

That is not to say other Denarians could not have been working more consciously with Outsiders, but in this case it was infiltration.
Eh.
Nicodemus canonically believes there's an Old One cultist in her faction.
Either Rosalina her lieutenant, or Tessa herself.

Our entire next turn should be spent on alpha striking the denarians.
Hell no. We have better things to do with our time than to attempt to chase around potentially up to 30x Coin holders.
And a good bunch of them are heavy hitters in their own right, or have the Infernal access to summon heavy hitters from Hell to do battle for them.

Our priority should be Crafting more equipment. We have a list a mile long of ways to fundamentally transform our fighting style and ensure that whatever Namshiel saw with his Sight is obsolete by the time we face him or anyone he tells about us again.

Not to mention the stuff we owe the Archive and the stuff we could build for others in our Circle.
Actually our first priority is to close that Sanctuary portal we opened on the Brazilian border.
And deal with the Peruvian god we gave asylum.
Might need Lydia for that bit.

Crafting is a close second, though we're not talking gear for Molly, but for her party members.
Harry and Carlos need armor wizard coats, Olivia needs an Arcana familiar and weapons that wont transmit death curses back to her, and we owe the Archive a couple splendors.

Plus, finding the time to make a batch of ~Prodigy 2 Wardenswords for the kid Warden candidates will probably help strengthen the Council's martial position a bit more.
As well as investing in some good will with some of the younger generation of wizards to be and those who care about them.
 
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No we do need to spend crafting time on making ourselves something so we don't have to spend XP on a relatively useless ranged attack charm that both cost Essence and would require us to spend even more XP to actually make useful both by buying an Excellency and buying ability dots.

We also spent pretty much this entire Arc with no potions or alchemy that can help us (Ebon scales still made of normal metal not Prima Metallum, No body building +3 in all physical attributes, No magic unweaving potion) despite the fact that we have a clone that can make potions on top of a hell that can make lower level potions than the Clone. The Clone also didn't make any possible crafting ingredients despite us essentially making a forge this turn.

Which some people said potions have a short shelf life it's not that short and we personally have never made a potion that would have expired in the entire run time of this Quest so far.
Otherwise, they expire depending on the number of successes achieved in creating them, after which time they become inert and potentially dangerous:
• One Day
•• One Week
••• One Month
•••• Three Months
••••• Six Months
Our clone is a circumstantially better crafter than we are. So we essentially sat out this long-ass period of time without the potion specifically meant to be used against wizards without specifically made armor without specifically made attribute potions because no one wanted to spend are crafting clones AP on helping us have Alchemy potions ready.

After this we're going to have to essentially focus on ourselves because the white council is about as useful as a benign tumor in your thigh not particularly fatal or dangerous at the moment but an active hindrance in most matters.

We should be assuring and shoring up places of our own power rather than attaching our selves to an organization that obviously can't find their ass with both hands.
 
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Even 100 time Namshiel is irrelevant in the face of industrialized magitech fortification. Not unless he has both scene long perfect defenses against everything and scene long perfect attacks.
Namshiel isn't the only Denarian or Denarian asset or ally. You shouldn't consider him in isolation. It also doesn't make much sense to expect him to run straight into the portal face first or something if that's what you've been picturing. He's a wizard type that's managed to live for thousands of years while being hunted by agents of God. He's not going to do that unless his IQ drops off a cliff for the sake of our convenience.


I'm putting the rest of this in a spoiler box.

Some points.

1: Namshiel is a Wizard type character. Wizards punch above their weight class when they have prep. They do not have to attack someone to be a pain in the ass. The more prep time and the older the wizard along with available assets the more dangerous they can be. Without proper prep even the strongest wizard in setting can be put on their ass and made a fool. His performance was not indicative of his maximum threat level.


Unless he was planning to raid the Hidden Halls before we set everything off he had less than 2 hours of prep at most and more than likely less than an hour and a half based on a time frame Molly gave us earlier.


Even then he still had a booby trap set to mindfuck anyone who cast magic at one of his thralls and he came up with that on the spot with minimal preparation.


2: If the Denarians do anything offensive or infiltration wise with the portal via proxies or otherwise they will have put more time into it than less than 2 hours.


3: Denarians almost never operate alone. We saw this in canon we've also seen this in Quest. Both the Embermane plot and the one revealed in the recent interlude involved at least 2 Denarians. Namshiel however was seemingly operating alone on his last minute raid because again it was a last minute raid.

No other Denarian was present within the Hidden Halls. Molly only discovered that he was even around because of the Crown of Eyes, one of the strongest precog abilities in setting. His plan was most likely to get in and out with minimal interference.


4: Namshiel, or some other Denarian, suggested weapons of mass destruction to Peabody but was turned down.



5: We've aggroed more than Denarians they're not the only concern and enemies are capable of working together against a shared foe. By using the other as a proxy or in a more involved manner.


6: The Rampires have demonstrated no known ability to enslave or bring a pantheon to near death in canon. Yet they seemingly have in the books and in Quest. We lack critical context there especially since we took one of them in. Depending on how they went about it, Outsiders or otherwise, it could very well pose a serious issue that none of us are expecting. Rampires shouldn't be able to take on pantheons from what we've seen of them and yet they clearly have some level of control over several.


1) 1% is a meaningless argument because it's an argument about unknown unknowns. So far nothing we have seen is likely to be able to breach our plausible prepared defenses before we arrive to reinforce defenders (and we likely won't need to)

2) The probability of such a being attacking within next several months is so vanishingly low that I tend to disregard it.
1) You acknowledge our ignorance in the same breath as you dismiss it. This is partly why I said having the argument again seemed entirely pointless. We aren't talking about a single Outside backed individual. We are talking about, every faction we have aggroed in Quest so far along with every faction we will aggro while the portal remains open, some of which operate on a global scale, some of which includes the 1%.



2) I think you have a very different picture of what multiple aggroed factions would actually try to do with a portal to their enemy's realm and people, if anything, and it's resulting in you assuming that multiple factions can only really go about things in the most direct way possible to cause issues for us even if they make no progress on that front.


I was arguing with Uju earlier about it, I am not concerned about the Rampires in a general sense, but DP specifically pointed out to BronzeTongue that enemies may gain access to things they haven't in canon if they are desperate and willing enough such as with Peabody. You have no idea what that probability even is to begin with, only DP does, as a result this just seems foolhardy.
 
Another Splendor
Storm shepherd's Wings [°°]
A set of brass wings with intricately designed interlocking feathers within them the fury of the storm can be contained the lightning upon their metal the wind within their locks the clouds within their Beats.
Form element
Form of Graceful Winds (1 pt. Form Element)
The Splendor takes the form of something that is graceful, or cold, or crackles with electricity, or is marked with decorations evocative of winds and clouds. It might be made of ice. This Element defines the Splendor's physical form and gives it a character, and that character is aligned with the elemental power of air. Other Elements may draw upon this fact.The Splendor cannot be harmed by wind, cold, or electricity. As an Adornment, increases its user's basic movement speed, before any multiplication by Charms or other powers, by (Splendor's rating) yards per turn.
Root element
Long Reach (3 pt. Root Element)
This Element can only be part of an Adornment.
The Splendor allows the Exalt to use one particular Ability, such as Larceny or Brawl, from
much farther away than she really ought to be able. The Exalt can act from (Splendor's rating) x
5 yards past her normal limits. In this case melee because you Block with the wings to catch the lightning l.
Mystic element
Sovereign Elemental Sway (1 pt. Mystic Element)
The Splendor manipulates and reshapes that which resonates with its character, as defined by
Form Elements such as Form of Crackling Fire and Form of Ash and Dust. The benefits
provided depend on whether the Splendor is an Adornment or Fascination, and on which Form or
Forms it has incorporated.
Incorporated into an Adornment, this Element allows the Exalt to use Craft actions to sculpt
wind, water, and fire as though they were clay, creating impossible works of art or short-lived
elemental tools. Living wood can be induced to grow into patterns the Exalt desires in the same
fashion, while the difficulty to work with stone or metal is reduced by two. The difficulty to craft
dead flesh into Arcana may be reduced by two as well. The Exalt can raise or lower the Gauntlet
by one degree per success on a Crafts roll to modify it, and can rework the chimerical identity of
things.
Incorporated into a Fascination, this Element allows the Splendor to rewrite the details of
landscapes and objects, rerouting the paths of a graveyard, changing the appearance of a corpse,
repairing a rundown wooden shack, or making a barren landscape green and verdant.

This one is primarily for catching storm related and wind related reagents like catching 100 lightning bolts or catching a storm and cradling it in our wings and taking it home to make a Wonder of it. The reason it doesn't have protection on it is cuz we have WHWH and I picked Long Reach because if you're going to be catching lightning with your wings you want to be able to do it at a distance greater than your body.

Ok, I'm not caught up with the story yet, but I've been searching for Holden's Splendor rules, and failed comprehensively at finding them, even using 6chan. Does anyone have a link? I've found references to them in-thread, but no summary of the whole so far.
 
It's an extremely desperate situation - we cannot afford to have hostile force embedded in the Internet and subverting USA government.
Sure we can, its not diffcult to find and kill him later if the task force failed.
Wizards can't do this, and we can't give them locations without disclosing the crown.
They can. They aren't children, they can fight a few black magisters. Its literally their entire purpose.

And they know we have arbitary divination. We proved them of this during this fiasco. They will accept we just know things.
No we cannot and he cannot. It's a hostile territory, with outsider and Red Court collaboration with True Magi.
a bunch of dudes that a few squads of our cyborg can deal with doesn't make it a major deal. We have effortlessly kicked the asses of these true magi and the only issue is we keep letting them set the pace of combat. If we attack first none of red wizards or true magi could do shit to a few hundred super cyborgs with fortune buffs and divination support and a few drone strikes.
It is not fine, and we cannot afford to keep over-extending. We are all offense with almost zero effort put into securing our assets and allies. This is going to bite us, it's already biting us
No whats biting us is that we knew about these traitors for months and didn't do anything about them because we are too scared to actual take decisive action. We could have ended this so much easier if we had attacked these guys just even a day ago. Do what we did the Australian guy but to everyone of them. So much damage averted.
Hell no. We have better things to do with our time than to attempt to chase around potentially up to 30x Coin holders.
And a good bunch of them are heavy hitters in their own right, or have the Infernal access to summon heavy hitters from Hell to do battle for them.
I promise you that we will dog walk these guys if don't let them ambush us.

We don't need to hunt of the denarians, just nicodemius and his group. The orgnised ones are the big risk.
 
Sure we can, its not diffcult to find and kill him later if the task force failed.
QM said that we'll have time to address Evil Bob before the month is over. FYI.

No whats biting us is that we knew about these traitors for months and didn't do anything about them because we are too scared to actual take decisive action. We could have ended this so much easier if we had attacked these guys just even a day ago. Do what we did the Australian guy but to everyone of them. So much damage averted.
We didn't address this earlier because we were busy building our power base and handling other things. Like Las Vegas. We aren't murder hobos. We have priorities other than killing people.

Edit: Also I'm not sure where you've been but DP specifically pointed out to us that the bad guys have been improvising all of this. There is no reason to believe that this would've been any easier had we set it off a day earlier as you say.
 
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Edit: Also I'm not sure where you've been but DP specifically pointed out to us that the bad guys have been improvising all of this. There is no reason to believe that this would've been any easier had we set it off a day earlier as you say.
No, then it just wouldn't have occurred because we would have grabbed all the ring leaders from their hiding spots before they can even spring the trap.
 
No, then it just wouldn't have occurred because we would have grabbed all the ring leaders from their hiding spots before they can even spring the trap.
What are you even talking about.

It's been pointed out more than once that they have instant communication abilities. Even knocking someone out in a split second before they even knew what was happening sent a signal off which is what started this.
 
It's been pointed out more than once that they have instant communication abilities. Even knocking someone out in a split second before they even knew what was happening sent a signal off which is what started this.
They have instant communication ability they don't actually possess paranoia instant communication. All of them didn't know even when a signal was sent across their entire network. Shaw was one of the people unaware and we literally went into his house through his basement and knocked him unconscious.

Well I don't agree with a lot of the points being made by acolyte there's a distinct streak tepidiness in our responses to our enemies. If we just very specifically attempted to find out information about Peabody's allies and then Ambush them one at a time across an entire day we could have probably dispatched most of the ones not in Europe before any alarms actually got sounded. There's only two of them in the hidden Halls to begin with.

Though on some level I just didn't think it was necessary. I really thought that the white council could just handle it if they were given the information, that was a distinct mistake on my part.
 
If we just very specifically attempted to find out information about Peabody's allies and then Ambush them one at a time across an entire day we could have probably dispatched most of the ones not in Europe before any alarms actually got sounded.
Show me a list of people that attacking would alert Peabody or his backer. Now tell me why we'd have any reason to suspect that attacking any of them would instantly alert Peabody or his backer. This is supposition nothing more.
 
Show me a list of people that attacking would alert Peabody or his backer.
54 Total conspirators, 7 Total Aware

Nevernever
13 in sundry other Nevernever realms 0 aware
1 No Name Always Aware, always knows, Almost? Outside.

Material World
7 in the Hidden Halls 2 Aware (One is Peabody)
9 in the in Central and South America 1 Aware
5 in Europe 1 Aware
12 in Africa 1 Aware
6 in Asia 1 Aware
1 in Australia 0 Aware
Us sending a ping directly to get the location of all conspiracy members and seven total in a situation where they were with pre-warning because we already had used our Crown to determine their Leader's presence only seven total actually managed to be aware.
It means the ones who have found out that you pinged one of them. There is clearly some kind of communication network that is instant or next to it and just as clearly it is not shared among all of the conspiracy
We then directly captured Shaw with no interference from anyone else and he was not aware that we were on top of him.
"Is that you Cyril? What are you doing upstairs...?" When you don't answer his back tenses and he grabs at the silver chain.

Surprise is yours, but only for a moment
They have the ability to instantly communicate in the same way everyone in the modern world their cell phone does which means they have to specifically attempt to communicate we spent 10 minutes in his piping before we even got there so it's not like they didn't have a chance.
After about ten minutes working out the right pipe you simply let the water column raise you up and end up in a sprinkle
If we didn't essentially look into the eye of their master and then use the crown to Divine their presence we could have just eaten them up one by one. I just thought it would step on the white council's toes and that they could handle it in its entirety with the information that we could give them.
 
Us sending a ping directly to get the location of all conspiracy members and seven total in a situation where they were with pre-warning because we already had used our Crown to determine their Leader's presence only seven total actually managed to be aware.
Yes???

We then directly captured Shaw with no interference from anyone else and he was not aware that we were on top of him.
I am aware of this. I haven't forgotten.


They have the ability to instantly communicate in the same way everyone in the modern world their cell phone does which means they have to specifically attempt to communicate we spent 10 minutes in his piping before we even got there so it's not like they didn't have a chance.
I am really not sure what your trying to prove here. Peabody and co caused all of this regardless of these facts after we attacked just one person. If we went at them one at a time over an entire day, I'm not seeing why more wouldn't have been made aware that they're being target as time passed by.

If we didn't essentially look into the eye of their master and then use the crown to Divine their presence we could have just eaten them up one by one. I just thought it would step on the white council's toes and that they could handle it in its entirety with the information that we could give them.
No. Peabody and co learned that one of their tapped people were caught after we knocked Tina out.
 
If we went at them one at a time over an entire day, I'm not seeing why more wouldn't have been made aware that they're being target as time passed by.
The point I'm trying to make is the communication doesn't happen instantaneously it's something that requires effort and usage.

As long as we don't do something like wait until the hollow man is looking out of the eyes of one of them to alert the rest of them to trouble there's no reason they should know. At all.

That's pretty much the entire point ambushing one of them at a time doesn't actually alert any of them unless they very specifically are acting as a vessel for the hollow man and unless he is just kind of looking out through random memberships eyes when they're supposed to be going about their day there's no reason for that to be the case at all.

Essentially the idea that just because they have instant communication means they would always be aware when we started picking them off is false because even with pre warning numbers of their membership don't get communicated to that they might be in danger or in trouble.

Peabody and co caused all of this regardless of these facts after we attacked just one person
They didn't actually do that. We essentially looked the hollow man directly in the eye and then used our Crown to find all of his co-conspirators in front of him. Even then only some of them actually knew they were discovered and after a period of time well capable of making a phone call warlocks still weren't aware they were in danger. Picking them off one by one without essentially lighting off a massive signal flare beforehand means we get to pick them off one by one without the entire mass of them being aware.
 
The point I'm trying to make is the communication doesn't happen instantaneously it's something that requires effort and usage.

As long as we don't do something like wait until the hollow man is looking out of the eyes of one of them to alert the rest of them to trouble there's no reason they should know. At all.
This is still supposition. Knocking out Tina who was tapped is what alerted them. That's all we know.


They didn't actually do that. We essentially looked the hollow man directly in the eye and then used our Crown to find all of his co-conspirators in front of him. Even then only some of them actually knew they were discovered and after a period of time well capable of making a phone call warlocks still weren't aware they were in danger. Picking them off one by one without essentially lighting off a massive signal flare beforehand means we get to pick them off one by one without the entire mass of them being aware.
We did knock Tina out. That's what "aware" was referring to.

I asked about this awhile ago and DragonParadox clarified that the Crown isn't why they knew. I even pointed the quote out to you back then since you were confused about it.

Again. Knocking Tina out is what set this off. Picking them off over a day would've instantly alerted people, afterwards there's no reason to think they wouldn't send out warning that their cult is getting picked off over the course of a day.
 
You know thinking about it whats the councils ruling on killing humans from our hell do they count as humans?

Edit: I expect they tabled said discussion on account of not wanting to piss us off. Wonder if they've used the sight on any of our humans or more importantly soul gaze.
 
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Namshiel isn't the only Denarian or Denarian asset or ally. You shouldn't consider him in isolation. It also doesn't make much sense to expect him to run straight into the portal face first or something if that's what you've been picturing. He's a wizard type that's managed to live for thousands of years while being hunted by agents of God. He's not going to do that unless his IQ drops off a cliff for the sake of our convenience.
Namshiel and others don't have a choice but to run into a portal face-first, that's the point. The portal is the only point of connection. Saying "Namshiel is a wizard and therefor good with prep" and other similar comments is entirely meaningless, because it doesn't provide anything actionable or lead to anything actionable. It's useless to worry about unknown unknowns because by definition we can't do anything about them, or even be sure that they exist. It's equally possible that Engine of Extinction will notice an active exaltation and return. It's equally possible that Ebon Dragon will awaken from his slumber as Ebon Road and want us a a bride. It's equally possible that the Argent Maiden will claw her way back from death in this world where time travel and true rebirth are possible and consider us an enemy. Can we do anything about that? No, we cannot. Do we know that such things are possible? No, we do not. Same principle.

And I am pointedly leaving out my strong belief that under the Ruler(tm) Denarians almost certainly flat out cannot enter our realm, same as the Swords can't, because Swords are a direct counter to Denarians, and if the Sword isn't allowed to enter the same realm as a Denarian can, then they can't be a counter to Denarian (note that Michael was allowed to take the Sword to a Yomi hell, so this isn't an issue with it being hell).

For the "they will have backing and won't be acting alone" - it's a 3 meter diameter portal. That's the only point of ingress. I have actually ran the numbers, you know? We know the intensity of Outer Gate conflict. A very conservative estimation of our military strength allows us to mount a better defense against a 3 meter portal than the defense that is sufficient to hold Outer Gates. This estimation does not take into account Molly's direct efforts, ie Exalted craft, specifically made spirits, perfect effects, etc. Unless you are postulating that a qualitatively more intense and dangerous attack on our portal is likely within the next month than the usual level of intensity of the assault on the Outer Gates by Outsider forces, I don't think I have to worry.

My claim is: someone will need both a scene-long perfect defense, and a scene-long always-on perfect non-elemental attack effect with infinite damage to pass through a defense we can assemble quickly. Or an ability to completely bypass all defenses, ie a true OCP. Increasing the numbers of mooks will not be helpful in breaching the defenses.

I will take a rebuttal, but I will take it with numbers, because so far, and pardon me, all I am hearing is are meaningless and non-actionable qualitative statements "he won't be alone", "he can punch above his class", "they are good with prep", etc. Run an estimation. Game it out. Show me how large of a dice pool someone has to have to breach a reasonable estimation of our defenses. Show me an example of an effect that will easily bypass everything we can prepare in the next month or so. So far it looks (to me, perhaps I am unfair here) that I am the only one who did at least something like this, and this is deeply frustrating, because I don't see points I can meaningfully debate. All I see are repeated theses of "we don't have perfect knowledge of the whole setting, therefor danger" (again, I apologize if this summation is too lacking in detail).

The argument about other factions is also duplicitous, because we are also not alone. It assigns full freedom to act with arbitrary resources to enemy factions without acknowledging that they too have enemies of their own, we are not their only concern, and in many cases not the biggest concern even. I fully expect that in the event of a massed and significant enough assault on the portal, Knights of the Cross will be dispatched to help us. For Odin's intelligence agency to notice the amassing of resources and personnel and to warn us, free of charge. For White Council to alpha-strike the rhampire base with Blackstuff and Tunguska 2.0 before they can act. For an outsider war party to just be eaten by Maeve's forces deep in the Ways of NeverNever. Etc.

Sure we can, its not diffcult to find and kill him later if the task force failed.
After the damage is already done? No, I don't think so.
They can. They aren't children, they can fight a few black magisters. Its literally their entire purpose.

And they know we have arbitary divination. We proved them of this during this fiasco. They will accept we just know things.
Africa has seen at least one Solar, one Abyssal and up to at least 3 infernals in recorded human history. True Magi in Africa can plausibly get access to that legacy, up to and including an infernal exaltation or two. White Council is disorganized, has eaten a huge loss just now, and cannot act with lethal force. I don't like their chances at all.

We also have had explanations, at least somewhat plausible for all our feats of diviniation. We are still trying to downplay it.
a bunch of dudes that a few squads of our cyborg can deal with doesn't make it a major deal. We have effortlessly kicked the asses of these true magi and the only issue is we keep letting them set the pace of combat. If we attack first none of red wizards or true magi could do shit to a few hundred super cyborgs with fortune buffs and divination support and a few drone strikes.
how do you get them in and out without Molly's direct involvement?
No whats biting us is that we knew about these traitors for months and didn't do anything about them because we are too scared to actual take decisive action. We could have ended this so much easier if we had attacked these guys just even a day ago. Do what we did the Australian guy but to everyone of them. So much damage averted.
This I agree with. The whole catastrophe could be seen during planning phase, and I voted to deal with it on our terms instead of having to react to it, because this could have been, and was predicted. What is your evidence for a denarian attack on us and ours next month?
We didn't address this earlier because we were busy building our power base and handling other things. Like Las Vegas. We aren't murder hobos. We have priorities other than killing people.
This plan vote, the contention was between "deal with Peabody and co first, then do baby wizards" or "do baby wizards first, then do Peabody". Guess what won?
 
Tina had the hollow man literally behind her eyes that's the only reason knocking her out initiated it. It wasn't just knocking her unconscious.
Here is the full context as provided back then.

It means the ones who have found out that you pinged one of them. There is clearly some kind of communication network that is instant or next to it and just as clearly it is not shared among all of the conspiracy
Pinged...? You mean the Crown usage?
The part where you knocked out someone who was controlled while they were being used to spy on you.

The fact that Tina was being used to spy at the time was why the HM knew it was Molly, triggered by the sound of her armor. The belief that knocking out someone who's controlled/tapped but not being seen through would not set HM and co off is what's supposition. As well as the belief that in this other timeline we'd know that the HM could be triggered to look after one of his tapped hears the sound of Molly's armor. We'd have to have ambushed all of them without using VLE at all.


The current winning plan has Lydia grabbing souls so we can ress them in our world soul right?
Both plan Altogether Now and Hell Seer do. The only difference between the two is the approach on the bomb.
 
My claim is: someone will need both a scene-long perfect defense, and a scene-long always-on perfect non-elemental attack effect with infinite damage to pass through a defense we can assemble quickly. Or an ability to completely bypass all defenses, ie a true OCP. Increasing the numbers of mooks will not be helpful in breaching the defenses.
Well, as one example, we know old Thornyboy can teleport really well, despite even wards like those in Edinburgh.

So possible plan would be to step through, survive the instance of your arrival, teleport somewhere else and disguise yourself as a local.
Then he'd have time to learn more and plan carefully.

No need for overwhelming power or scene-long perfects in this case, just one instance of defense followed by teleport.
 
The belief that knocking out someone who's controlled/tapped but not being seen through would not set HM and co off is what's supposition.
It is a supposition but that's literally all I can bring that's not what happened in story. But I believe it's a well-founded one. I don't believe the hollow man would be on the inside of all of his agents he's very specifically using a spell to spy in that moment because he knew beforehand that they would be in our vicinity.

Picking his agents off in the world with no warning is exactly that there is no warning so he has no reason to just be essentially watching over their shoulder while they're going about their day at all.

The only one he should be over the shoulder of all the time is Peabody because Peabody is in the direct Halls of power of the central Force keeping reality together and we literally could and should and did hit him pretty much last.

Summary picking them off one by one does not immediately alert the network because the network was only alerted that they were in trouble because the hollow man was directly there spying.

This supposition only works if the hollow man isn't present in all of them which considering the hollow man is a singular individual there's no reason to believe that he's across all of them because even during this encounter with multiple Wizards that he's directly encountering and with he's not been present at all it's a spell he's casting to look through the eyes of people not something he can just be / do all the time.

If you believe they're hooked up at all times then the supposition is immediately false and we just have a fundamental disagreement that can't really be absolved which is fine because at this point it really doesn't matter.
 
Well, as one example, we know old Thornyboy can teleport really well, despite even wards like those in Edinburgh.

So possible plan would be to step through, survive the instance of your arrival, teleport somewhere else and disguise yourself as a local.
Then he'd have time to learn more and plan carefully.

No need for overwhelming power or scene-long perfects in this case, just one instance of defense followed by teleport.
Yeah but he's not the right creature of darkness and any sorcerer or just psychic with Supernatural senses would be able to tell that he's not actually a local because he's not the right type of creature of Darkness if bearers of the coins are creatures of Darkness at all.

This is before the fact that most of our citizen we are cyborgs that might also possess the ability to see the spirits around him and see that he's not right at all.

There's also the fact where could he teleport to I don't think you can just blind to teleport in a place you've never been and expect to live. A person blindly teleporting in the five-fold court is is more likely to be ground to mulch by Iron winds and/or freeze to death than actually teleport anywhere useful there's only five cities and those cities are full of people that can tell that you are not right.

If you teleport into the Labyrinth it is also full of maybe cyborgs and monsters that will also immediately attempt to kill you because they are universally hostile.

Essentially you would have to disguise yourself as a different kind of creature of Darkness not have any signature that you are not at all from this hell somehow fake cybernetics or non-human inheritance and then hopefully not blind teleport somewhere that might immediately kill you.
 
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What are you even talking about.

It's been pointed out more than once that they have instant communication abilities. Even knocking someone out in a split second before they even knew what was happening sent a signal off which is what started this.
We would do simultaneous raids, like what law enforcement does against orgnised crime, for exactly the same reason.
After the damage is already done? No, I don't think so.
What damage. He is a minor spirit trying to take over the internet. We have billions of such spirits, we can very easily mob him.
Africa has seen at least one Solar, one Abyssal and up to at least 3 infernals in recorded human history. True Magi in Africa can plausibly get access to that legacy, up to and including an infernal exaltation or two. White Council is disorganized, has eaten a huge loss just now, and cannot act with lethal force. I don't like their chances at all.
Lmao, are you honestly worried about the true magi suddenly gaining acess to exaltation shards out of no where.

I guess i can just claim since they know how reality was made the denarians can teach mages to cause false vacuum collapses and destroy the universe. Thats also plausable knowledge they have and its even more urgent than a exaltation.

Like wildly exaggerating their threat level is not worth it. We literally dog walked their entire conspiracy in like 4 hours. They are not playing on our levels. A hundered power armoured soldiers with counter spellers can easily destroy them.
We also have had explanations, at least somewhat plausible for all our feats of diviniation. We are still trying to downplay it.
We divined every traitor in a super conspiracy in a single after noon. What downplaying?? Like they would have to be idiots to not understand the scope of our visions.
how do you get them in and out without Molly's direct involvement?
How does any military extract people. We bring our equivalent of stealth helicopters to deploy a dozen squads of cyborgs and sorcerers and they just exfiltrate them.

Before you talk about the mexican government to say its not viable. Its already a vampire puppet. They already know about us and I don't repect their sovereignty or care about their reaction. Because honestly they can't do anything to us.
What is your evidence for a denarian attack on us and ours next month?
Because denarian attack is always a possiblty ad evidenced by the thorned guy. we also in character loath them, rightfully so.
 
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