The Outsiders made a big push on the Outer Gates during Las Vegas and probably exhausted their available forces in the short-term there. We've burned through all the infiltrators in the Fae Courts and the White Council. There may still be Outsiders with the Red Court, but we've been doing a good job at pruning all their centuries-old plots.
That may be why they're taking such drastic actions all at once. It's like spending everything in your bank account when you realise the cops are about to freeze your funds.
Technically speaking one of the Summer Nemesis possessed escaped and it's possible that they N'fested another Summer Fae without being caught by the end of it but I certainly hope they didn't drop the ball there.
The Outsiders made a big push on the Outer Gates during Las Vegas and probably exhausted their available forces in the short-term there. We've burned through all the infiltrators in the Fae Courts and the White Council. There may still be Outsiders with the Red Court, but we've been doing a good job at pruning all their centuries-old plots.
One thing to keep in mind 'Outsider' is a mark of location, those who are not in the bounds of Shaped Creation, that does not mean they all share a political affiliation or even a goal beyond getting in.
One thing to keep in mind 'Outsider' is a mark of location, those who are not in the bounds of Shaped Creation, that does not mean they all share a political affiliation or even a goal beyond getting in.
We cannot afford it at all. We have to, at least:
1) Deal with Evil Bob, who's actively working against us right now
2) Finish Tue Magi, which might be a 2 AP activity (one for Africa, one for South America)
3) Retrieve or at least ensure protection of Dresden's daughter
4) Secure the Sanctuary portal site
5) Secure the Dawn exaltation in Vegas
6) Secure Chicago (Rosie and other low-level associates and friends we have) or start paying off our debts (because we need allies and can't afford to delay payment for a prolonged period of time), or finish constructing the Forge (because it's only a 50% chance that we'll finish this turn, and we can't afford to delay repayment much longer, and we need it to pay off our debts).
We have ensured that the Knights have a mighty ally in the form of the Raksha we freed. This should allow us to delay at least one turn more. And I'd prefer more, to have proper equipment and backing.
Our priority should be Crafting more equipment. We have a list a mile long of ways to fundamentally transform our fighting style and ensure that whatever Namshiel saw with his Sight is obsolete by the time we face him or anyone he tells about us again.
Not to mention the stuff we owe the Archive and the stuff we could build for others in our Circle.
Our priority should be Crafting more equipment. We have a list a mile long of ways to fundamentally transform our fighting style and ensure that whatever Namshiel saw with his Sight is obsolete by the time we face him or anyone he tells about us again.
Not to mention the stuff we owe the Archive and the stuff we could build for others in our Circle.
Which is why we need to finish the Forge this or next turn, and to ensure the flow of crafting materials, which probably involves finding another Raksha to (humanely) farm. And then building a Manse to start mass-producing spirits. We are still in the "make tools" phase of the buildup.
We cannot afford it at all. We have to, at least:
1) Deal with Evil Bob, who's actively working against us right now
2) Finish Tue Magi, which might be a 2 AP activity (one for Africa, one for South America)
3) Retrieve or at least ensure protection of Dresden's daughter
4) Secure the Sanctuary portal site
5) Secure the Dawn exaltation in Vegas
6) Secure Chicago (Rosie and other low-level associates and friends we have) or start paying off our debts (because we need allies and can't afford to delay payment for a prolonged period of time), or finish constructing the Forge (because it's only a 50% chance that we'll finish this turn, and we can't afford to delay repayment much longer, and we need it to pay off our debts).
We have ensured that the Knights have a mighty ally in the form of the Raksha we freed. This should allow us to delay at least one turn more. And I'd prefer more, to have proper equipment and backing.
The gaping hole in our soul is way higher priority than most of this, not because they aren't important but because it's a significantly larger problem. We can't just continue with our prior itinerary unimpeded just because we'd prefer it not take all our time.
The cost of our decision at that point is that things like Chicago security and Bob's plot have to take a number.
On a more meta level; we keep having mega arcs, complaining about mega arcs, then voting to put multiple major events in one arc. If we focus more then we can cycle through arcs on a more sane timetable.
The gaping hole in our soul is way higher priority than most of this, not because they aren't important but because it's a significantly larger problem. We can't just continue with our prior itinerary unimpeded just because we'd prefer it not take all our time.
The cost of our decision at that point is that things like Chicago security and Bob's plot have to take a number.
On a more meta level; we keep having mega arcs, complaining about mega arcs, then voting to put multiple major events in one arc. If we focus more then we can cycle through arcs on a more sane timetable.
Please note point 4 on the itinerary. They are not arranged in any particular order. Please further note that whatever fortification we are going to be building and designing, we'll be doing so with the following modifiers:
1) In Shintai
2) With all bonuses active, possibly including TLF
3) While under effects of at least Fortune 2 path blessings
4) Using Lord of the Land, and MHM to accelerate construction
5) With the help of our entire civilization (Leadership bonuses with excellency probably apply)
6) Possibly (if I get my way) with a cadre of high level mages who benefit from Proxy Minion Protocol dice boosts
7) With the help of the god we rescued
8) Possibly with the help / benefit of Prayer eating (if we get enough XP to buy it).
Taking all these together, I am fairly confident that 2 to 3 AP (1 base and 1-2 bonuses) should be more than enough to secure the entry site. To be frank I struggle to think what benefit additional AP could bring. We'll have thousands of highly trained magical soldiers, with heavy equipment stationed there (if we go by RaW with Path of Civilization they should mulch combat form denarians and invading gods). With wards. And heavy pre-sighted artillery and exotic weaponry. With exalted-grade fortifications and security. What more do you want?
Also, describing it as "a gaping hole" is disingenuousness. A 3 meter wide portal is, at most, an itty-bitty scratch, or a piercing, not a gaping hole.
Do you actually want to have the conversation about what the 1% like the Denarians for example are capable of again? This could turn into an argument about the wisdom of the portal vote way back if y'all want but that seems entirely pointless now.
You seem to have forgotten but the thread already voted to start setting a trap for the Denarians and spring it about a year from now. We aren't ignoring them you just forgot.
Please note point 4 on the itinerary. They are not arranged in any particular order. Please further note that whatever fortification we are going to be building and designing, we'll be doing so with the following modifiers:
1) In Shintai
2) With all bonuses active, possibly including TLF
3) While under effects of at least Fortune 2 path blessings
4) Using Lord of the Land, and MHM to accelerate construction
5) With the help of our entire civilization (Leadership bonuses with excellency probably apply)
6) Possibly (if I get my way) with a cadre of high level mages who benefit from Proxy Minion Protocol dice boosts
7) With the help of the god we rescued
8) Possibly with the help / benefit of Prayer eating (if we get enough XP to buy it).
Taking all these together, I am fairly confident that 2 to 3 AP (1 base and 1-2 bonuses) should be more than enough to secure the entry site. To be frank I struggle to think what benefit additional AP could bring. We'll have thousands of highly trained magical soldiers, with heavy equipment stationed there (if we go by RaW with Path of Civilization they should mulch combat form denarians and invading gods). With wards. And heavy pre-sighted artillery and exotic weaponry. With exalted-grade fortifications and security. What more do you want?
Also, describing it as "a gaping hole" is disingenuousness. A 3 meter wide portal is, at most, an itty-bitty scratch, or a piercing, not a gaping hole.
I don't think it's a 2-3 AP project. I see it's on the list, but I think it should consume the AP you're allocating to those other projects.
I'd say 'gaping hole' is a good description, because the opening being available in the first place allows a lot of hilariously dangerous stuff take a shot at us and the physical diameter barely matters.
We're probably going to get pressure on it immediately too, so that'll be a complication as well.
I'm thinking we'll need to invest in helping Malko get back on his feet, a defensive splendor to stop people from just dunking on our defenders arbitrarily, organizing an army/fortress, a second splendor for abusing Malko's land connection to create a defensive perimeter/screw over the reds, and deal with the global political fallout of our recent actions.
That is a ridiculous amount of stuff and definitely worth its own arc. There's a reason we keep trying to have breather arcs after every arc, and it's that putting three arcs of stuff in one is exhausting.
Deploy a battle group. Its already protected by a land god and its golem that is pretty formidable, very Secure already. And even it gets out its fine. A solar is not the biggest problem we have.
) Secure Chicago (Rosie and other low-level associates and friends we have) or start paying off our debts (because we need allies and can't afford to delay payment for a prolonged period of time), or finish constructing the Forge (because it's only a 50% chance that we'll finish this turn, and we can't afford to delay repayment much longer, and we need it to pay off our debts).
You seem to have forgotten but the thread already voted to start setting a trap for the Denarians and spring it about a year from now. We aren't ignoring them you just forgot.
Even if we could handle an arbitrary amount of physical force it wouldn't really matter since we're facing the top level people from a defensive position. Nemesis, the Denarians, and any bullshit the reds can rush at us are not trivial issues.
Which is why I think we really need defensive splendors so that they can't just spend all their resources on mine control bullshit or what have you to say steal our people to use as hostages.
Your priorities are so warped here, I don't even know where to start. You can't actually expect that the thread is going to drop everything next turn and go all in on Denarian hunting. We have obligations and unfinished business. That's why AP management is a core part of the Quest.
Do you actually want to have the conversation about what the 1% like the Denarians for example are capable of again? This could turn into an argument about the wisdom of the portal vote way back if y'all want but that seems entirely pointless now.
Yes, I want to have it again. We saw what a 1% Denarian can do - flee using last resort desperate measure while we still have stuff in reserve. Thorned Namshiel is one of the best denarian wizards, the best arguably. They could only barely escape from us and a small force of unprepared wizards. I know you'll say "they didn't have anything to get and weren't using their best" argument, but I don't agree - if they could pull off a 1000 times more battle power, they wouldn't be fighting like they were.
I don't think it's a 2-3 AP project. I see it's on the list, but I think it should consume the AP you're allocating to those other projects.
I'd say 'gaping hole' is a good description, because the opening being available in the first place allows a lot of hilariously dangerous stuff take a shot at us and the physical diameter barely matters.
We're probably going to get pressure on it immediately too, so that'll be a complication as well.
I'm thinking we'll need to invest in helping Malko get back on his feet, a defensive splendor to stop people from just dunking on our defenders arbitrarily, organizing an army/fortress, a second splendor for abusing Malko's land connection to create a defensive perimeter/screw over the reds, and deal with the global political fallout of our recent actions.
That is a ridiculous amount of stuff and definitely worth its own arc. There's a reason we keep trying to have breather arcs after every arc, and it's that putting three arcs of stuff in one is exhausting.
It is not fine, and we cannot afford to keep over-extending. We are all offense with almost zero effort put into securing our assets and allies. This is going to bite us, it's already biting us.
Yes, I want to have it again. We saw what a 1% Denarian can do - flee using last resort desperate measure while we still have stuff in reserve. Thorned Namshiel is one of the best denarian wizards, the best arguably. They could only barely escape from us and a small force of unprepared wizards. I know you'll say "they didn't have anything to get and weren't using their best" argument, but I don't agree - if they could pull off a 1000 times more battle power, they wouldn't be fighting like they were.
Namshiel took advantage of an opportunity. He had less than two hours of preparation. He was by himself. He very likely didn't expect to fight an E4 Exalted nor did he aim to. His performance was always going to be less than his best and what he could manage on the spot.
It's like your ignoring the facts.
Edit: I myself pointed it out back then. The fucker was always going to either end up dead on the spot or run. It was never a question.
Namshiel took advantage of an opportunity. He had less than two hours of preparation. He was by himself. He very likely didn't expect to fight an E4 Exalted nor did he aim to. His performance was always going to be less than his best and what he could manage on the spot.
It's like your ignoring the facts.
Edit: I myself pointed it out back then. The fucker was always going to either end up dead on the spot or run. It was never a question.
Even 100 time Namshiel is irrelevant in the face of industrialized magitech fortification. Not unless he has both scene long perfect defenses against everything and scene long perfect attacks.
EDIT: I apologize. I am too brusque in my replies. My point is that I think
1) 1% is a meaningless argument because it's an argument about unknown unknowns. So far nothing we have seen is likely to be able to breach our plausible prepared defenses before we arrive to reinforce defenders (and we likely won't need to)
2) The probability of such a being attacking within next several months is so vanishingly low that I tend to disregard it.
Adhoc vote count started by uju32 on Oct 22, 2024 at 6:35 PM, finished with 138 posts and 15 votes.
[X] Plan altogether now -[X] Molly, Harry, and Ebeneezer (if he can) try to counterspell / unweave the thing together --[X] Molly uses Occult Excellency, lowers the temperature around herself to activate WHWH, renews BSM if necessary, and spends 1 WP for an autosuccess --[X] Harry sinks his whole mote pool, and spends one WP for 5 autosuccesses
-[X] Sophia: Confirm Merlin ID first. Secret of Gaia + Sense The Unnatural
-[X] Sophia: Howl of Healing to save the still living wizards. Help with magic bomb if necessary
-[X] Lydia: Focuses on saving as many wizard souls as possible. Anima Power and Excellency if necessary
-[X] Sanctuary Fire Team: Secure the battleground and every body here.
-[X] [Crown Question] [Focus - Broken Warden Sword 1] Who of those who have walked this Labyrinth have been tainted by it?
-[X] [Crown Question] [Focus - Broken Warden Sword 2] Who and where are the missing wizards?
[X]Plan Hell Seer -[X] Molly: Try to destroy it yourself (Risk of taking considerable damage from backlash)
-[X] Sophia: Confirm Merlin ID first. Secret of Gaia + Sense The Unnatural
-[X] Sophia: Howl of Healing to save the still living wizards. Help with magic bomb if necessary
-[X] Lydia: Focuses on saving as many wizard souls as possible. Anima Power and Excellency if necessary
-[X] Sanctuary Fire Team: Secure the battleground and every body here.
-[X] [Crown Question] [Focus - Broken Warden Sword 1] Who of those who have walked this Labyrinth have been tainted by it?
-[X] [Crown Question] [Focus - Broken Warden Sword 2] Who and where are the missing wizards?
[X] Plan Emergency Medical Hellspawn
-[X] Let the Blackstaff handle it
-[X] Howl of Healing to save the still living wizards.
-[X] Lydia identifies who among the dead Molly might be able to bring back.
-[X] Molly focuses on saving as many wizards as possible, all remaining party members secure the battleground.
-[X] [Crown Question] [Focus - scene] Who of those who entered today has fallen to the Labyrinth?
[X] Plan Digital Age -[X] Get a mobile phone from Sophia, Use Digital Possessions Management on the Veil-ripping device to store it in the phone without potentially damaging Clippy's body and all the records it holds
For what its worth, I strongly recommend against trying to use magic to defuse a bomb that was set for wizards.
Namshiel just demonstrated that magical booby traps are a thing.
And the Hollow Man is an archwizard; involving any wizards in this risks them unnecessarily when we have a Celestial Exalt.
Further commentary when I get back in a couple hours.
Regarding defensive splendors, assuming we have resources to make a 5 dot one, it should be more than enough:
A concept of multi-layered defense. Works like this:
Outermost layer - the Citadel complex, with barracks, heavy cannons, minefields, teleportation wards, at least ten thousand soldiers stationed.
The Citadel is a home to a 5 dot Emanation Arcana, who is the local god (Bane writ very large).
The Arcana has in their possession a Splendor, which form the innermost layer of defense - the Heart Room of the Five elements
Fitful Malady (0 pt. Mystic Element): manifestation time
Form of Portentous Moonlight (1 pt. Form Element)
Form of Crackling Fire (1 pt. Form Element)
Form of Graceful Winds (1 pt. Form Element)
Form of Steadfast Earth (1 pt. Form Element)
Form of Gentle Water (1 pt. Form Element)
Form of the Hearth (2 pt. Form Element)
Sacred Protection (3 pt. Root Element)
Unthinkable Ward (1 pt. Mystic Element)
Scourge the World (2 pt. Mystic Element)
A sealed room, no exits. 5 meter thick brass-like walls. The walls / ceiling / floor cannot be burned, cannot be frozen, do not conduct electricty and are immune to it, stop spirits as if they were material, and are extremely durable.
In order to attack the room's walls the attacker has to pass a DC9 willpower roll, and spend 1 WP each turn while attacking it.
First attack of the scene against the room's walls / ceiling / floor fails.
The guardians stationed in the room are immune to wind, cold, and electricity, being crushed, cut, or pierced by stone or metal, being burned (fire), being drowned, and possession. If a single attack has more than one element of it, then damage is simply downgraded from aggravated to lethal, lethal to bashing, and bashing damage cut in half after soak (round down), while immunity to possession becomes the ability to make a Willpower roll at difficulty 5 to immediately shake the effect off,
The intruder is subjected to a relentless mix of elemental attacks, which inflict -3 dice on all actions
The guardians are twenty five masters of Path of Civilization acting together. In sealed power armor and with blessed weapons.
A five cornered room within the heart of the great citadel, it's the first and one of the greatest bastions between the outer world of Earth and the Sanctuary. Carved out of a single piece of brass, with walls five meters thick, it has no exits and the entry can be gained only through direct approval and assistance of the Citadel's great spirit, who holds possession of the Splendor. Within the room, a great pentagram is carved both within the floor and the ceiling, its points aligned with Five Cities. At the center of the pentagram is the portal to Earth. Each corner-point of the room has its own elemental manifestation - an eternally burning candle, a stream of water, that falls from nothing and into nothing, a miniature mountain, and an eternally spinning tornado.
Twenty five elite guardians, each of them a master of the Path of Civilization stand vigil in their sealed environmental suits there. While in the room they cannot be burned, cannot be drowned, cannot be frozen or electrocuted, are immune to weapons of metal and stone, and their spirits will remain clear of possession.
The walls are shrouded in psychic protection, and only the greatest of wills and mightiest and most twisted of magics can attempt to destroy them, and even then not easily.
This is very hard to escape for anyone we have seen.
This is an argument for "countermagic to our countermagic", which leads to infinite recursive countermagics. Yes, booby traps and counter-counters are possible. This is covered in M20:
How Many Successes Does It Take?
If the Effect has been in place for a while – like for a ward,
a gateway, a curse-in-progress, or a living construct that has been
put together through magick – unweaving demands at least 10
successes, possibly 20 or more in the case of major creations or
Great Works. Certain Effects – Gilgul, instant damage, sensory
magicks, and the titanic magicks used to craft Horizon Realms
– cannot be unwoven. Others might have precautions woven
into them, like the Primium armor used in many Technocratic
cyborgs and bio-constructs. In this case, the protection acts as
countermagick to the unweaving, subtracting successes from
the mage who's trying to unweave the original creation. The
moral: it's damn near impossible to unweave a HIT Mark. Still,
a gateway can be closed, a summoning circle destroyed, or an
enchantment broken by successful unweaving.
Bitterness metastasized into hatred that day and cynicism was sharpened into a scalpel to cut out his conscience. Nothing really mattered, none of it was real, only power and all power had to be taken from someone great and small. Was he not one of the mighty and the great? Was he not one whose will bent the world? Why would he be unable to stop himself from killing? Books... not just books an entire library below Paris there was that seemed to confirm the judgement of his pride, he had been brought into the company of warlocks fully and just didn't know it.
The older wardens watch on almost with baited breath as you and Sophia drag him across the whole of his story like a man on his knees gently, inexorably pulled through a field of broken glass. Lash looks on with professional approval, Harry looks like he wants to strangle him on several occasions and Carlos stays quiet, caught between disgust at what's being said and relief that it's out in the open now. You might not have your connection to Edinburgh, but you have a legitimate source for many of the European names.
"Well-a-day, looks like we have a library to raid," Zadock says.
"We have to put did before the Conseil supérieur," Lady M slips back into French in her haste to speak.
This entire thing isnt over.
There's a library of Nephandic lore here according to Harold Shaw, that formed the local heart of this conspiracy, and we havent found it yet. Nor has the Hollow Man shown his face or sent a minion along.
The current winning plan is spending Essence and Willpower as if we dont have anything else to worry about.
