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Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

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Degorium said:
He got lucky the only reason he didn't die right there was because he got lucky. Sometimes that happens he just barely avoided taking a fuck ton of irradiation from green sun nimbuslayer which would have catapulted him into deep wound penalties which makes any role after that pretty much impossible.

Also what the hell are you talking about one up Talisman that isn't a thing it's not a thing in Dresden Files it's not a thing in fucking mage
the Ascension it's not a thing in exalted what the hell are you even talking about with that shit.

All of this on top of the fact a broken neck while it is invariably fatal it isn't actually immediately fatal healing a broken neck is just healing lethal damage which we can also do so can Tiffany so there's a lot of beings in our nearby vicinity who could also do that it's not really particularly impressive as a feat.
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He didnt get lucky, he came prepared.
He's an elder Denarian wizard who came loaded for bear into a facility he knew was populated by deadly enemies and expected to get out again despite a non-zero encounter chance with the Blackstaff or the Merlin.

Its like saying we got lucky in getting out of the Wicked City. No we didnt.



Namshiel canonically resurrected Marcone after Ethniu killed him.
The same way Polonessa walked off Dresden vaporizing her heart and half her chest with a beam of blue-white fire.

Are you seriously arguing that when the Titan Ethniu took him by the neck and broke personally broke it, she didnt know if he was dead or not? If she'd killed him or not?
Yeah, I do not agree.

Degorium said:
What allies they are universally fucking hated never mind the fact that only Wizards and things that use wizard magic can attempt to do anything to our charms at all. Which would still be restricted by both our Essence and how much they're willing to devote to peeling away at protections with their limited time on Earth if they attempt to do that.

Never mind the fact that our shintai is well known we've used it in public multiple times I don't know why you keep pretending like we haven't. Same with the exoskeleton we have revealed pretty much nothing that wasn't already known.
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This isnt true. They have never been universally hated. Feared, sure, hated not so much.

Mab canonically traded with Anduriel for Nicodemus' services when she first came to the throne; he commanded the defenses of the Outer Gates for a time. They do regular supernatural business; the animal constructs they used in Small Favor were allegedly from the Fomor. Eldest Gruff greets Magog with courtesy in Small Favor.

It was an explicit plot point in Skin Game that one of Mab's goals in revenge was destroying their reputation/credit score in the supernatural world after the Denarians crossed her in Small Favor.


This isnt true. Our shintai has been heard of, its not been observed by enemies who survived to go back and talk about it.
Besides maybe Broken Seeker. Its certainly not been seen by a Fallen Angel. We have repeatedly tried to avoid using some abilities near people with strong senses because they might be able to see it in use and learn from it.

There is a reason why this story arc kicked off when a conspiracy-member tried to observe us through the eyes and senses of a Warden-trainee.

Degorium said:
They didn't enter stasis when they left us I don't know why you keep pretending like they did they either got to Merlin or they didn't they left before we even started walking to this encounter with the Fallen. There have been at least 10 minutes they left before we even started moving towards the Fallen.
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We both started moving at the same time, no delay.
The QM explicitly tells us that if we had taken the time to go pull reinforcements from Sanctuary, Namshiel would have been gone by the time we got back.

I have exhaustively broken down a timeline estimate. Im not going to do it again.
Furthermore, we sent off half our Circle with the implicit understanding that we would be joining them as soon as we could.
The only person there who throws enough mojo to threaten Outsiders is Lydia.

Degorium said:
This also isn't how anything Works nothing works like this Sandra a person who is directly a dupe of Nemesis a knight of the outside with all of the access to outsiders you could ever need and a hole to the outside still only had a handful of them why are you expecting a drowning of fucking Outsiders that's not a thing. If it could be a thing the world would be gone already.

No summoning or Magics in mage the Ascension or Dresden Files allows for what you're saying you're completely making that up.

This makes it fucking impossible to really take your points in stride because you assign completely either made up or insane quantifiers to our enemies which makes it insanely difficult to take your points as Salient or good.
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The Hollow Man is Arete 9/10-equivalent.

Has to be, to be more powerful than Peabody's Arete 8, and a direct servant of the Outsiders. He was powerful enough to engage in a template swap from mortal human to whatever inversion he currently is.
In power and capabilities, he's to Sandra Marling what Blackstaff McCoy is to Dresden.

And he literally has a coven of conspirators he is also commanding.


TheGrape said:
I'm fairly certain nobody has preparations against things that have never been invented before.

Just in this encounter we had him rolling for his sanity when he saw Molly in Shintai, 9 dice against 9DC, with only -1DC thanks to sheer experience. None of our foes are hyper-competent super-god monstrosities that have perfect defenses against splendors we've only theorized about, much less created.

(Also, this was made in response to a very much not innocent wizard-turned-warlock seeing through our ATP)
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The same way you armor against weapons you've never seen before.
The same way Molly defend's against modalities of mental damage and shaping damage we have never seen before.


That wasnt a SAN roll, that was shock.
Like Harry Seeing Ursiel in spirit for the first time in Death Rites. Lucian has a Fallen Angel bound to his soul and has spent the last two millenia working with others of that sort; I would call bullshit if he had to roll for SAN damage.

Someone with the power to break through Anonymity Through Propriety is very much in the leagues where you look at the Outer Dark without flinching.
 
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BoredMan said:
DP already told us that if anybody could craft empowered items it would be Namshiel though. We should expect him to have some relics at least.
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Make items =/= make solidified charms / ancient sorcery. Splendors are very special, and have stringent requirements. For one, he'd have to hunt down ancient monsters to harvest them for power.
 
Degorium said:
So what you want me to not believe My Lying Eyes.
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He did get pretty lucky to not even get scratched, but Molly would have had to get pretty lucky to kill him in one hit. Overall I think the greatest danger to Namshiel would have been if he had failed the Willpower roll for the Sight. That would have caused him to stare in horror until the end of his turn and then he would have eaten a full line up of attacks from everyone but the ensnared wizards, then again that was also the most profitable action he did in the encounter so it balances out I think.
 
Anyway. the vote

[X] Using the current scene as a focus, ask "what has Thorned Namshiel learned from this encounter?"
[X] Go to Paris as you are the others need the help, your present form might cause some exposure, but it is night there as well. There can't be that many poeple out

@DragonParadox does this question count as a Crown not being able to see itself? Because if not, I think that's going to be very profitable for us, lorewise.
 
[X] Using the current scene as a focus, ask "what has Thorned Namshiel learned from this encounter?"
[X] Go to Paris as you are the others need the help, your present form might cause some exposure, but it is night there as well. There can't be that many poeple out
 
Yog said:
Anyway. the vote

[X] Using the current scene as a focus, ask "what has Thorned Namshiel learned from this encounter?"
[X] Go to Paris as you are the others need the help, your present form might cause some exposure, but it is night there as well. There can't be that many poeple out

@DragonParadox does this question count as a Crown not being able to see itself? Because if not, I think that's going to be very profitable for us, lorewise.
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It does not, you were just in a scene with him and you are asking about his knowledge, which does mean though that if he is wrong about something you will get that wrong info. There is an implicit 'what does he think he learned' in there.
 
[X] Using the current scene as a focus, ask "what has Thorned Namshiel learned from this encounter?"
[X] Go to Paris as you are the others need the help, your present form might cause some exposure, but it is night there as well. There can't be that many poeple out.
 
BronzeTongue said:
Multi attacker is distinct from multi action, and as far as I'm aware that's one of the most difficult penalties to erase. Doing so represents the ability to fight arbitrary numbers of other people, which the Denarians never demonstrate. Teaming up on them is repeatedly a useful tactic in the books.
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Im dont think thats true when you are specifically spending Extra Actions to negate said attackers on a 1:1 basis.
Just like McCoy didnt accrue any when he did the same thing to counter those wizards.

But I cant swear to it, and I am disinclined to dig up the books today just to check.
BronzeTongue said:
He also specifically nerfed the angelic lore out of our option pool for Lash because it was too broken. Which I think was a good choice because the Denarians don't really show the ability or interaction in playing that type of game in canon.

If the literal shard of an angel can't do it then a human student of one shouldn't be able to either. Buffs and nerfs should have consistency to them instead of being based on what's most detrimental to the players at the time.
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Yes, its unavailable to Lash, which is also a decision I agree with, along with several other Lores.

That does not make it unavailable to Lasciel, or any of the other Denarians.
A Denarian is not just a human student, he has the Fallen itself possessing him. If you have a Fallen Angel in your head, feeding you power and guiding your hands, you can do things that a nephilim cannot.




We dont see the Denarians all that much.
In the entire 17-book history of the Denarian Files Dresden Files, we have seen the Denarians all of thrice: Death Rites, Small Favor, Skin Game. With a cameo for Namshiel in Battle Grounds. 3x in 14 years.

We dont know what they spend their time doing; they presumably dont spend that time twiddlin their thumbs or knitting.
Degorium said:
So what you want me to not believe My Lying Eyes?
That is a normal soak roll made at a normal difficulty he happened to get all successes on it and it was still only just enough he got lucky.
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The dude canonically has regeneration.
Aggravated regeneration at that; he healed a hole in his spine quickly enough to leave the fight at the Aquarium before the Knights showed up.

And thats not counting any other magical items or rotes he has on himself; the teleport relic was not likely to be the only one.
I will repeat this once: The dude came prepared.
 
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[X] Go to Paris as you are the others need the help, your present form might cause some exposure, but it is night there as well. There can't be that many poeple out
 
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Ivar said:
[X] Using the current scene as a focus, ask "what has Thorned Namshiel learned from this encounter?"
[X] Go to Paris as you are the others need the help, your present form might cause some exposure, but it is night there as well. There can't be that many poeple out
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May I ask why this now?
You're burning Essence we'd need in Paris, and to my recollection we have already proc-d Essence regen for the scene, so a Crown question wont recover any Essence.
 
uju32 said:
The dude canonically has regeneration.
Aggravated regeneration at that; he healed a hole in his spine quickly enough to leave the fight at the Aquarium before the Knights showed up.

And thats not counting any other magical items or rotes he has on himself; the teleport relic was not likely to be the only one.
I will repeat this once: The dude came prepared.
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A lot of people and beings have regeneration, does not mean enough aggravated damage would not put them down, especially since Molly saw where the coin was. Her attack was an attempt to carve it out of his flesh.
 
uju32 said:
May I ask why this now?
You're burning Essence we'd need in Paris, and to my recollection we have already proc-d Essence regen for the scene, so a Crown question wont recover any Essence.
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This is a new scene, so we should be getting essence back, and vital intelligence. Both for our conflict with him (we learn what he thinks he knows), and in general. He might be coming to wrong conclusions, but there's bound to be basis to those.
 
uju32 said:
The dude canonically has regeneration.
Aggravated regeneration at that; he healed a hole in his spine quickly enough to leave the fight at the Aquarium before the Knights showed up.
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One there are creatures in world of Darkness that have aggravated regeneration that's not impossible to deal with by any stretch of the imagination. Two he was successfully incapacitated by aggravated damage and needed to heal a hole in his spine and then run away.

There's also the fact even if we hadn't killed him in that one hit his blood would have been splattered everywhere and a not insignificant portion of his torso as well which we've gone over the leaving links to yourself Point dozens of times at this point and he would be injured heavily anyone capable of launching correspondence attacks using force and correspondence would have been able to finish him off or at least tell us where he is and then we can water travel or fly there and finish the job.

He got lucky because being hit at all and being dealt damage would mean his death whether he died tired because he kept running or tried to fight us he got lucky.

This is also on top of the fact that even if he managed to get the teleport ring off his dice pool for using it would have been reduced to seven. Which would have severely reduced the possible places he could have gone unless his home is within the faith radius of the white Council which it might be.

Though the hope would be it's further out so we can water travel there without having to fly so we could just appear on his doorstep and then smash him to death.
 
uju32 said:
May I ask why this now?
You're burning Essence we'd need in Paris, and to my recollection we have already proc-d Essence regen for the scene, so a Crown question wont recover any Essence.
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Because otherwise we will lose this opportunity. While the scene is fresh, our distance from it is less and therefore the answer will most likely be more complete. Yes, he will not have time to draw his conclusions, but still. As for the battle further... Who knows if we will have time at all. We certainly did not have time to help group two and they still won.
 
DragonParadox said:
A lot of people and beings have regeneration, does not mean enough aggravated damage would not put them down, especially since Molly saw where the coin was. Her attack was an attempt to carve it out of his flesh.
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That frankly shouldnt have been possible even for an Exalt.
But your prerogative.

Enough aggravated damage can kill anyone, sure. No doubt.
Dealing enough aggravated damage to a prepared elder demonhost in one shot is a very different matter.
Hence why my bet has always been that he'd bail successfully; the White God would have had to put a finger on the dice :V

Ivar said:
Because otherwise we will lose this opportunity. While the scene is fresh, our distance from it is less and therefore the answer will most likely be more complete. Yes, he will not have time to draw his conclusions, but still. As for the battle further... Who knows if we will have time at all. We certainly did not have time to help group two and they still won.
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To my knowledge, freshness of the scene and distance from it isnt a factor in Crown questions.
And we have a recording thanks to Clippy, who remains MVP of Molly's combat support structure.

If the fight was over, Sophia would have teleported back here to check on us.
As soon as she's in Edinburgh, she's in Mindspeak range to talk to Molly.
That she hasnt says that either things are ongoing(likely), or they havent even gotten to Paris yet(unlikely, but possible)

This is, to my understanding, the arc boss, not a secret side quest like Namshiel.
I dont really expect Lydia to beat him alone.
 
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uju32 said:
That frankly shouldnt have been possible even for an Exalt.
But your prerogative.

Enough aggravated damage can kill anyone, sure. No doubt.
Dealing enough aggravated damage to a prepared elder demonhost in one shot is a very different matter.
Hence why my bet has always been that he'd bail successfully; the White God would have had to put a finger on the dice :V
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It would not have been an exalt alone. Wizards know spells that can do agg too and you had two of them in position to plus a magical sniper with a magical sniper rifle, any of them alone would likely not have been enough. Altogether... there is a reason he ran.
 
VOTE
[X] Go to Paris as you are the others need the help, your present form might cause some exposure, but it is night there as well. There can't be that many poeple out


RATIONALE
We're going to get shot at by friendlies; an Infernal Exalt in shintai is a scary sight to behold for the first time.
But there's no real alternative here.

Expect Outsiders in Paris. Peabody dropped a mistwraith on the wizards in canon, and I fully expect Marcus Drusus to up the ante on that. Need someone who can reliably put those things in the ground without dying, and Im not confident that Lydia can keep everyone else alive under those circumstances.


Im not asking a Crown question because we already got our Essence regen for the scene.
Asking one justs costs us Essence we are going to need in a bit.
 
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[X] Go to Paris as you are the others need the help, your present form might cause some exposure, but it is night there as well. There can't be that many poeple out
 
DragonParadox said:
It would not have been an exalt alone. Wizards know spells that can do agg too and you had two of them in position to plus a magical sniper with a magical sniper rifle, any of them alone would likely not have been enough. Altogether... there is a reason he ran.
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If you say so.
You have his char sheet, I dont.


@DragonParadox
QUESTION
Is Molly going to Paris alone, or is she bringing the rest of her party with her?
Do we specifically have to write it in for them to come along?
 
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