Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

How about
[X]Mind Hand Manipulation 1 essence grab the phone.
-[x]Clippy can you trace this call?
 
As far as tracking him goes Uju pointed out earlier that Tiffany should be able to manage it on her own.
Much more then that Tiffany has
This evocation allows a Scourge to locate specific individuals, mortal or demon, by homing in on their store of Faith.
System: Roll Perception + Awareness. The difficulty depends on how much information your character has concerning the subject. If she has the subject's mundane name, the difficulty is 8, If the subject is a demon and the character knows the subject's Celestial Name, the difficulty is 7. If she knows the demon's True Name the difficulty is 6. The Scourge can detect and home in on an individual up to a number of miles away equal to her permanent Faith score. Demons being actively sought in this manner can use their supernatural awareness to detect the search as a reflexive action (see the section on inherent powers for details). If a demon detects the search, he may avoid detection with a Willpower roll ( difficulty 8 ). If he gets more successes than the Scourge, he evades the search.
From the lore of awakening and we know the demon's name.
 
Im really thankful we convinced a majority of voters of the necessity for Molly to have Countermagic(Human) to start with.
This could have gotten very unpleasant otherwise.

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VOTE
[X] Never interrupt a villain monologuing when they should be running, try to get information out of the Fallen
-[X] STUNT: You snatch up the phone pouch and break the camera in the same motion, taking a moment to rifle through the pockets of the unconscious before nodding to Tiffany. "Booby traps are hardly sporting though, Namshiel."you reply, deliberately pitching your voice in the same urbane cadences that the monster on the line has adopted. "Cool trick with the phone, by the way. " You pause for effect, motioning to your other companions, then continue." Though you'd think a twenty hundred year old wizard with your advantages would have passed the need to use...trinkets for divination."



RATIONALE
The more he talks, the more likely he drops information that might be useful for either Crown scrying or asking around.And the fact that the pouch the phone was in cut a hole for the phone camera means that he needs an intact camera to see or scry through.

So cover or break the camera lens, and leave the microphone alone.

Also, Molly is almost as deadly with her tongue as she is with her blade.
Charisma/Manipulation 4 + Etiquette 5 + Stunt 2 is a dicepool of 11 without spending any motes on an Excellency, where Etiquette is Key for her.

So let him talk. Neg him where appropriate, see how he reacts.
 
That's not the same thing at all. One is counterspell and the other is a "just" some sort of magic piercing prime/forces attack.

Dishing out curses that make everyone useless on the spot was never his skill set. Which is why he didn't do something like this when he was hunting Harry. The guy is powerful, but he was more of a blaster on the offensive - like an evil Dresden.

That's actually a relevant character beat, because the current host is a sorcerer instead of a wizard, he's just got ages of cheating behind him to get strong. Pretty sure Harry potentially taking a coin and becoming a better version of him in every way is why the host was so particularly pissed at Dresden from the very beginning.
1) The first most definitely wasnt a counterspell.
Counterspells are just that: counterspells to a specific spell as a single turn action. They arent standing effects, and they dont prevent you casting different spells. That was closer to a ward, instacast.

The second spell went through Dresden's improved shields, and Harry wasnt exactly a scrub at this point.
Young, but he basically handled two other Denarians in the same scene: Magog, by bouncing him, and Polonessa Lartessa, a magic-user herself, by punching a foot-wide beam of blue-white fire through her chest and incapacitating her.

So Namshiel punking him like an apprentice not once but twice says a lot about relative skill and knowledge.


2) Thorned Namshiel was a wizard, not a sorcerer.
Not a dollar-store talent, but a seriousface practitioner, and the best one in the Denarians. He was Polonessa Lartessa and Rosanna's teacher according to Nicodemus.


3)He's pissed at Harry because in the first scene, Harry was using soulfire.
Thats what he's pissed at, that Harry has access to it and he doesnt.
Everyone who recognizes it calls it out as special; Namshiel did, Bob did, and Shagnasty did.
 
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If he's using that, he's broken the NAP I think, while the Denarians are very powerful, letting them use the Angelic Lore against mortals invites Uriel to push back in an equal and opposite way. And this was intended for the mortals, even if Molly is exempt from the NAP (Which I think would be a fair cop).
I'm pretty sure they can circumvent that as long as they properly teach their host the trick and not just download it through their powers.
Basically as long as implementation is on the host and Fallen is at best "suggesting" ideas it's fair game.

Lasciel got had by Uriel because she did what she did to Harry, at range and personally instead of through her host.
 
[X] Stab the phone and keep going until you can stab the one on the other end as well

While I would like to continue to milk this conversation for information he did come here looking for something or to fulfill some goal and essentially being here at all was time-sensitive so wasting any of it listening to him makes it considerably more likely that he'll achieve whatever goal he came here to reach.

There's also the fact it does feel to me like he is stalling with this phone call.
 
[X] Stab the phone and keep going until you can stab the one on the other end as well

While I would like to continue to milk this conversation for information he did come here looking for something or to fulfill some goal and essentially being here at all was time-sensitive so wasting any of it listening to him makes it considerably more likely that he'll achieve whatever goal he came here to reach.

There's also the fact it does feel to me like he is stalling with this phone call.
Its a cellphone. Molly can walk and talk at the same time, just like pretty much every other normal person.
We are not obliged to stand over these guys; Tiffany is going to heal them, knock them unconscious and we move on.
Maximum duration 4 turns/12 seconds.


As for stalling, how? How exactly is he(Namshiel) supposed to stop Molly walking by talking on the phone?
The very worst he can do is use the phone as an arcane targeting focus for a Correspondence/Forces spell aimed at the holder, and Molly has already demonstrated to him her ability to deal with magic attacks.

And if he did that, he'd just make his location more obvious to Tiffany and the wizards.


EDIY
Magic traps set for wizards are much less effective when they run into an Occult 5 Solaroid Exalt with relevant Charms.
 
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Its a cellphone. Molly can walk and talk at the same time, just like pretty much every other normal person.
We are not obliged to stand over these guys; Tiffany is going to heal them, knock them unconscious and we move on.
Maximum duration 4 turns/12 seconds.


As for stalling, how? How exactly is he supposed to stop Molly walking by talking on the phone?
The very worst he can do is use the phone as an arcane targeting focus for a Correspondence/Forces spell aimed at the holder, and Molly has already demonstrated to him her ability to deal with magic attacks.

And if he did that, he'd just make his location more obvious to Tiffany and the wizards.
It's the cell phone paired with the pair of wizards that were essentially just curse fodder meant to sabotage a party that was coming after him. On some level he's not truly hidden from us because we already have the phone even if we do smash it we also have Tiffany with us so what does listening to him talk do for us really.

You are correct that there's a bit of leeway on how exactly this was going to work but you haven't voted to actually do the things you just said. Hell if you do that I'll vote for you it'll be fine.

It just feels like he's just performing active divination on our position while stalling either through Patsies or direct conversation while he tries to achieve whatever he set out to achieve.
 
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Im really thankful we convinced a majority of voters of the necessity for Molly to have Countermagic(Human) to start with.
This could have gotten very unpleasant otherwise.
It would have gone the same. We have perfect defenses for everything that spell would have tried and turning them on would have cost the same amount of willpower and motes we spent here. The spell being gone still leaves the wizards too paranoid to use magic so the net result is the same.


1) The first most definitely wasnt a counterspell.
Counterspells are just that: counterspells to a specific spell as a single turn action. They arent standing effects, and they dont prevent you casting different spells. That was closer to a ward, instacast.

The second spell went through Dresden's improved shields, and Harry wasnt exactly a scrub at this point.
Young, but he basically handled two other Denarians in the same scene: Magog, by bouncing him, and Polonessa Lartessa, a magic-user herself, by punching a foot-wide beam of blue-white fire through her chest and incapacitating her.

So Namshiel punking him like an apprentice not once but twice says a lot about relative skill and knowledge.


2) Thorned Namshiel was a wizard, not a sorcerer.
Not a dollar-store talent, but a seriousface practitioner, and the best one in the Denarians. He was Polonessa Lartessa and Rosanna's teacher according to Nicodemus.


3)He's pissed at Harry because in the first scene, Harry was using soulfire.
Thats what he's pissed at, that Harry has access to it and he doesnt.
Everyone who recognizes it calls it out as special; Namshiel did, Bob did, and Shagnasty did.
1) How do you know? All counter spells are based on invoking a specific effect to undo hostile magic. Invoking prime is the closest to an anti-magic field style effect but you don't have to do that. "I eat the spell with X" is the same as "I use forces to undo his kinetic energy beam".

The standing magic disruption is a distinct effect and doesn't really show signs of a particular source. We also don't see it tested against anything but Dresden playing with force so how general it is remains a question.

My point was not that Namshiel wasn't good, it was about the shape of his skills. Namshiel plays like Dresden does, lots of power thrown around in a hurry. He's more skilled, but that's not strictly fungible. All of the abilities you're showing are him being very skilled at blowing things up and messing with other people doing the same.

2) I'd need to check more, but I think he was one of the guys who'd spent hundreds of years getting good under the training of a Fallen Angel. You see the same mechanism in action with Marcone, who gains the ability to perform complex magic despite barely having enough power to close a circle himself.

3) That made the Angel angry, but isn't the only thing going on there.

Edit:

The guy just gave us a focus. Why not use it to check for everything he's done to prepare for this event or something? Breaks the phone so he has a harder time looking at us, but even he should have issue noticing the crown being used remotely when Nemesis can't detect us reading its mind.
 
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It's the cell phone paired with the pair of wizards that were essentially just curse fodder meant to sabotage a party that was coming after him. On some level he's not truly hidden from us because we already have the phone even if we do smash it we also have Tiffany with us so what does listening to him talk do for us really.

You are correct that there's a bit of leeway on how exactly this was going to work but you haven't voted to actually do the things you just said. Hell if you do that I'll vote for you it'll be fine.

It just feels like he's just performing active divination on our position while stalling either through Patsies or direct conversation while he tries to achieve whatever he set out to achieve.
The booby trap was meant for wizards. The cellphone would have been as well.
Its the whole scenario where you set a trap for wolves and it catches a bear.
Like I said, traps meant for wizards dont do so well against Occult-specced E4 Exalts.

I did.
Its right there in the Stunt and the reasoning; thats why Molly is shifting for Tiffany, and motioning to the other wizards.
I didnt think it was necessary to spell it all out because nobody is going to just stop to talk on the phone.


Remote magic casting takes time and effort, even when you are a two thousand year old wizard with a Fallen Angel in your head. You can either sit and try to scry this scene at a distance, or you can try to steal what you came for so you can run away. You cant do both simultaneously.

There's a reason the current effect is piggybacking off a phone; all the magic has to do is boost reception.
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It would have gone the same. We have perfect defenses for everything that spell would have tried and turning them on would have cost the same amount of willpower and motes we spent here. The spell being gone still leaves the wizards too paranoid to use magic so the net result is the same.
We have perfect defenses against mind-control, not damage, and without countermagic there was a non-zero chance it would have reached out to snagged the other wizards in our party.
Or Olivia.
Like I said, shit could have gotten pretty spicy there.

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1) How do you know? All counter spells are based on invoking a specific effect to undo hostile magic. Invoking prime is the closest to an anti-magic field style effect but you don't have to do that. "I eat the spell with X" is the same as "I use forces to undo his kinetic energy beam".

The standing magic disruption is a distinct effect and doesn't really show signs of a particular source. We also don't see it tested against anything but Dresden playing with force so how general it is remains a question.

My point was not that Namshiel wasn't good, it was about the shape of his skills. Namshiel plays like Dresden does, lots of power thrown around in a hurry. He's more skilled, but that's not strictly fungible. All of the abilities you're showing are him being very skilled at blowing things up and messing with other people doing the same.

2) I'd need to check more, but I think he was one of the guys who'd spent hundreds of years getting good under the training of a Fallen Angel. You see the same mechanism in action with Marcone, who gains the ability to perform complex magic despite barely having enough power to close a circle himself.

3) That made the Angel angry, but isn't the only thing going on there.

Edit:

The guy just gave us a focus. Why not use it to check for everything he's done to prepare for this event or something? Breaks the phone so he has a harder time looking at us, but even he should have issue noticing the crown being used remotely when Nemesis can't detect us reading its mind.
1) Because we actually see Ivy counterspelling in the same scene.

Thats how counterspell rules in M20 work for wizards.
They arent persistent effects; you spend an action to counterspell a single spell. We see Ivy counterspelling Denarians in the same scene in the book, so we know it works the same way in the Dresdenverse.

Namshiel put down a persistent effect that both shut down Harry's shield and prevented him casting two separate spells, and then while that effect was in operation, he spun up a death spell while simultaneously beginning to reassemble the ritual shit that Harry destroyed. That does not appear to be a counterspell.


2) The impression Nicodemus gave when Harry spoke to him was that Thorned Namshiel was the real deal.
Not just a sorcerer or occasional dabbler in the arts, like most other Denarians.

Same with Polonessa Lartessa, who apparently had the talent but only recently began to get training for it.
You can see the difference in how the Archive reacts to the Denarians throwing magic at her at the museum, and how Harry assesses them:
Small Favor c30.Shedd Aquarium Fight said:
I was wrong.
It wasn't that Ivy was slinging around a ton of power. She wasn't. But think about this one for a moment: What's really more impressive? A giant truck rumbling around on a great big old smoking engine? Or a little car just barely big enough to get the job done that's powered by a couple of AA batteries?
Seven of them were going after Ivy with magic, and she was countering them. All of them.
Magog had charged her as he had me, but she hadn't slammed him to a stop with a brick wall. She'd trapped him inside some kind of frictionless bubble, and he was spinning uselessly in circles half an inch off the floor, every motion making him spin faster. Whatever additional metaphysical mass he'd brought to the fight hadn't cramped her style much. Her arms, bobbing and weaving continuously between all the workings she had up, flicked by the field containing him every few seconds and, I swear, struck his whirling snare for no reason other than to impart an additional, nausea-inducing vector to his spin.
Deirdre's tangle of living locks danced with purple Saint Elmo's fire, lashing out in a deadly webwork, but Ivy constantly cast out a spinning cat's cradle of light, tiny, tiny threads of power that did not so much stop any of Deirdre's attacks as they fouled any one of her locks with others near it, tangling them together into useless clumps-sort of an enforced bad-hair day. On the opposite side of Ivy, Rosanna launched more traditional lances of flame from her open palms, much like the ones I-
- a savage pain went through my skull for a second-son of a bitch-
- but Ivy dispersed them with delicately applied wedges of air, intercepting each burst of fire far enough short of her body to prevent the bloom of heat as they died from scorching her-though the two more physical Denarians who strained to force their way past the barrier of snapping sparks that formed whenever they tried to get close had far less luck. The Hellmaid's flames scorched them badly.
The sixth, a wizened little thing that looked like a caricature of a woman carved from a dried tree root, seemed to be holding the end of a rope of liquid shadow that curled like a hungry serpent, darting now and then toward Ivy's head. Ivy faced it down steadily, moving her head calmly in a dodge once, swatting it aside with a little burst of silver energy a second later.
But mostly she faced an amused-looking Tessa, who, apparently just for the fun of it, threw another thunderbolt at her now and again. That told me something right there. It told me Tessa was no punk sorceress. She was White Council material herself, if she could make that much flash and bang while expending that little energy. Either that or she'd been able to hold back one whale of a lot more power than I had when she took her deep breath before the battle. Either way she was a big-leaguer, and Ivy's response to the attack confirmed it. Each time the Archive turned to fully face Tessa, and each time she dedicated one of her hands entirely to the defensive measure used to stop the incoming spell.
Gulp.
Small Favor c45 said:
He shrugged a shoulder. "It's somewhat ironic, Dresden, that I can talk to you about this particular aspect of family business. You're the only one that I'm sure hasn't gone over to this new force-this Black Council of yours."
"How can you be so sure about me?" I asked him.
"Please. No one so obstreperous has been corrupted by anything but his own pure muleheadedness." Nicodemus shook his head, never taking his eyes off me. "Still. My time here has not been wasted. The Knights carried away Namshiel's coin, so Tessa has lost her sorcery teacher. I heard Magog's bellow end quite abruptly a few moments ago, just before you walked out of the same building, so with any luck Tessa's heaviest bruiser is out of the game for a time as well, eh?" Nicodemus smiled cheerily at me. "Perhaps his collar is in one of your pockets. And I have Fidelacchius. Removal of one of the Three is profit enough for one operation, even if I did lose this chance at gaining control of the Archive."

Namshiel was tutor to both Lartessa and Rosanna, and Harry said that in his opinion Lartessa was White Council material.
That pretty much guarantees that he was too.
Especially since Namshiel was apparently primarily responsible for the big Circle at the Aquarium.



3)Nah, thats the only thing going on there. You can see him literally rant about it:
"Insufferable, arrogant little monkey," Namshiel hissed. "Playing with the fires of creation. Binding your soul to it, as if you were one of us. How dare you so presume. How dare you wield soulfire against me. I, who was there when your pathetic kind was hewn from the muck."
At the time, Harry didnt even know he'd used soulfire, or what soulfire was, so it was Greek to him.


4) Because we are not operating alone or only with our crew, and its a lot harder to explain pulling shit out of thin air to the Council wizards who are with us and who we are relying on for backup.

Use the phone as a focus if/when he cuts the phone, or if we have to follow him out of the Halls.
But as long as he's willing to talk, goad him to talk.
 
[X] Stab the phone and keep going until you can stab the one on the other end as well

If they want to talk, don't let them talk.
 
I didnt think it was necessary to spell it all out because nobody is going to just stop to talk on the phone
Why? You're stunt has no action components to mention moving (No Pointing, no getting up after retrieving the cell to walk) and your vote has no party action component to mention moving either just a vague motioning towards the people in the group. Most people just sit or stand on their phone talking to someone. It is very easy to imagine stopping and talking if you've ever seen any show TV or movie it is very easy to imagine stopping and talking.

Never mind the fact that the vote itself has no motion action whatsoever just having a conversation over the phone.

That is why I completely assumed that we weren't moving in your vote nothing about your writing suggest movement nothing about the vote suggests movement the closest thing to movement is a vague gesture and it doesn't actually say to move anywhere because it's not a point or anything like that it's just a nod to Tiffany.
 
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I normally wouldn't be opposed to letting a BBEG monologue, if the situation called for it, but this isn't one of those situations. While we stand here talking to a cellphone, Namshiel is free to complete whatever work he set out to accomplish basically unopposed. I refuse to believe he can't multitask sufficiently to talk to us and cast magic, break wards, etc.

Also, there are some BBEG you probably shouldn't let monologue, and Thorned Namshiel is one of them, IMO, as are most of the other sane Denarians. They've had too much time and practice to risk it.

[X] Stab the phone and keep going until you can stab the one on the other end as well
 
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Why? You're stunt has no action components to mention moving (No Pointing, no getting up after retrieving the cell to walk) and your vote has no party action component to mention moving either just a vague motioning towards the people in the group. Most people just sit or stand on their phone talking to someone. It is very easy to imagine stopping and talking if you've ever seen any show TV or movie it is very easy to imagine stopping and talking.

Never mind the fact that the vote itself has no motion action whatsoever just having a conversation over the phone.

That is why I completely assumed that we weren't moving in your vote nothing about your writing suggest movement nothing about the vote suggests movement the closest thing to movement is a vague gesture and it doesn't actually say to move anywhere because it's not a point or anything like that it's just a nod to Tiffany.
Fine.
Will update and repost in ten to thirty minutes to make it clear.

I normally wouldn't be opposed to letting a BBEG monologue, if the situation called for it, but this isn't one of those situations. While we stand here talking to a cellphone, Namshiel is free to complete whatever work he set out to accomplish basically unopposed. I refuse to believe he can't multitask sufficiently to talk to us and cast magic, break wards, etc.

Also, there are some BBEG you probably shouldn't let monologue, and Thorned Namshiel is one of them, IMO, as are most of the other sane Denarians. They've had too much time and practice to risk it.

[X] Stab the phone and keep going until you can stab the one on the other end as well
1) We arent standing. Its a cellphone, not a a landline.
We'll walk and talk at the same time.Thats kinda the point, or it wouldnt even be an option.

Molly isnt stupid IC; she's on a timer, both here and in Paris. She isnt going to just stand and talk, letting her enemy get away.


2) Based on their canon? ALWAYS let a Denarian monologue. They invariably drop hints and information about their goals and methods; Cassius/Saluriel did it, Nicodemus/Anduriel does it, Deirdre does it, her mother Lartessa does it.
Namshiel did it; thats how his host died in Small Favor.

Arrogance is a defining factor for people who knowingly make deals and actively partner with Fallen Angels.
 
Im really thankful we convinced a majority of voters of the necessity for Molly to have Countermagic(Human) to start with.
This could have gotten very unpleasant otherwise.

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VOTE
[X] Never interrupt a villain monologuing when they should be running, try to get information out of the Fallen
-[X] STUNT: You snatch up the phone pouch and break the camera in the same motion, taking a moment to rifle through the pockets of the unconscious before nodding to Tiffany. "Booby traps are hardly sporting though, Namshiel."you reply, deliberately pitching your voice in the same urbane cadences that the monster on the line has adopted. "Cool trick with the phone, by the way. " You pause for effect, motioning to your other companions, then continue." Though you'd think a twenty hundred year old wizard with your advantages would have passed the need to use...trinkets for divination."



RATIONALE
The more he talks, the more likely he drops information that might be useful for either Crown scrying or asking around.And the fact that the pouch the phone was in cut a hole for the phone camera means that he needs an intact camera to see or scry through.

So cover or break the camera lens, and leave the microphone alone.

Also, Molly is almost as deadly with her tongue as she is with her blade.
Charisma/Manipulation 4 + Etiquette 5 + Stunt 2 is a dicepool of 11 without spending any motes on an Excellency, where Etiquette is Key for her.

So let him talk. Neg him where appropriate, see how he reacts.
Updating


VOTE
[X] Plan Poison Tongue
-[X]Never interrupt a villain monologuing when they should be running, try to get information out of the Fallen
-[X]Tiffany: Flesh 1 + Awakening 3: Heal and disable thrall wizards
-[X]Molly: Grab phone pouch, disable phone camera and continue conversation as war party continue pursuit
-[X]Party: Continue pursuit as soon as Tiffany is done
--[X] STUNT: You snatch up the phone pouch and break the camera in the same motion, taking a moment to rifle through the pockets of the unconscious before making way to Tiffany. "Booby traps are hardly sporting though, Namshiel,"you reply, deliberately pitching your voice in the same urbane cadences that the monster on the line has adopted. "Cool trick with the phone, by the way. " You pause for effect as Tiffany finishes, motioning to your other companions to follow, then continue talking as you pick up the pace."Though you'd think a twenty hundred year old wizard with your advantages would have passed the need to use...trinkets for divination."



RATIONALE
The more he talks, the more likely he drops information that might be useful for either Crown scrying or asking around.And the fact that the pouch the phone was in cut a hole for the phone camera means that he needs an intact camera to see or scry through.

So cover or break the camera lens, and leave the microphone alone.

Also, Molly is almost as deadly with her tongue as she is with her blade.
Charisma/Manipulation 4 + Etiquette 5 + Stunt 2 is a dice pool of 11 without spending any motes on an Excellency, where Etiquette is Key for her.

So let him talk. Neg him where appropriate, see how he reacts, see what he says.
He's on the board of the Thule Society, and he was cooperating with Peabody. He knows shit.
 
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