If successful it will cause her not to talk to us or our siblings again, which is all I want out of this conversation.
Also who says our threats have to be insincere?
Because it won't really help; it plays into the scene Evans wants to cause. Even if she gets warned off through supernatural bullshit the other people like her would just gossip more and cause trouble for the members of our family invested in this community.
In my opinion the best sort of empathy based social combat is the sort that uses both aspects of the skill. So something that's on one level social leverage, but on another is still experiencing someone else's perspective when you act on it.
In this case, there are two levels you can interpret this course of action on.
The first (and primary in my opinion) is as an earnest attempt at reaching out and trying to be better to each other. Ideally this works, but from my experience catty church going hypocrites are basically white court vampires with honest engagement as a bane.
The other level here, that becomes relevant if she chooses not to interact with us in good faith, is the social combat metaphor. She tried to stab us with a word shiv; stabbing back hurts her, but it also plays in to what she wants and the scene she'd prefer to happen.
Instead, what I wrote in has us parry her and lead into a situation where we've got the implications backing her word shiv -specifically her alleged superior Christian virtue- against her throat.
We do this by calling out the difference between how she's acting and who she's implicitly claiming to be, then quoting a relatively obscure passage from the Bible to back up our point. That's basically the catty church social politics equivalent of a perfect defense with a free counter attack attached.
We let go of the knife by making the getting better part a mutual thing, but that just boxes in her future responses even further.
To be clear: the intent in my write in is as it seems in the text, not to play at cynical social manipulation. However, it's still worth considering the social mechanics in play.
Done this way we either get through to her based on sincerity, or we place her in a position where she has to choose between backing off and continuing to embarrass herself.
… this is probably the point where I've put too much thought into this isn't it?
More seriously, I honestly appreciate the amount of work and research that goes into making one of these.
You have my honest appreciation. But its too...anachronistic, in my opinion, for my liking. The art and the description both call back to a premodern concept that I dont think works with the PC or the time period.
Especially given that a lot of the aesthetics of the Wicked City charms and the Thousand Hells are cyberpunk.
I did go back and look at the battle scene in Summer Knight in Chicago over Chicago; heaviest armor in play is mail, and of the serious heavy hitters, only Maeve wore mail, with both Aurora and Mab wearing gowns.
Better than average social dice pool on Lydia; at 6 dice for Cha/Man + Empathy/Expression, thats the same pool that Molly does.
And she's younger than Molly is, and allegedly more socially sheltered.
Combined with a Dex + Athletics pool of 5, the girl has very good passive stats for a teenager who isnt done growing.
And we're not counting her looks, which are probably around App 3 given the reactions of both Daniel and Molly to it.
If we didnt already know she was a changeling, this would probably have confirmed it to Molly.
Huh.
Yes, a girl around Matthew's age, you don't know much about her other than she seems kind of shy. It might just be that Molly has never seen her out of her mother's company
So a thirteen or fourteen year old, living with a parent who has strong if inconsistent opinions about both media and appropriate teenage behavior. And she's too young to be in Molly's age class, and probably not in Mathews friend group either, given the shyness, the sex and the overbearing parent.
We should probably pencil her in for the collected Harry Potter books at the church's yearsend Secret Santa, when we should hopefully have money. Probably a couple other books and reading resources as well, including Sailor Moon comics. Since the lady is free about her opinions about the childraising of others, its only fair to return the favor. Only in a constructive manner.
Like the Book of Proverbs says: <<If your enemy is hungry, give him food to eat, and if he is thirsty, give him water to drink. For in so doing, you will heap burning coals on his head, and the LORD will reward you.>>
so there are things that push past 5 dots in this system. Good to know. Also sure we can't move past 5 dots we have charms and absurd exp for stats in comparison though oh and essence.
But its been less than a month since Molly spent some quality time hanging off the branches of a tree in the middle of Arctis Tor.
And three quarters of the team that came looking for her(Thomas, Harry, Murphy) had no reason to be there besides altruism.
Thats the sort of thing thats gives some appreciation for the concept of charity.
Besides, she got a personal message from Archangel Uriel.
And for all her teenage rebellion, she's still a kid who was raised Catholic, went to Catholic school until at least the end of middle school, and is on good terms with her neighborhood priest. She has ample personal experience of heavenly power being active.
That sort of thing impacts your opinions and behavior.
We're throwing twelve dice at this with that Excellency, which is average six successes. At this moment in time, Molly is literally supernaturally persuasive, and she is simultaneously linking her argument to their mutual religion, which would be the equivalent of targeting an Intimacy in Ex2 Social Combat.
You dont have to believe that the woman is a saint for this to have an impact on her or to make her reflect.
It wont necessarily change who she is, assuming she is a powertripping authoritarian and not just some woman who is honestly misguided, but it might very well have significant impact on her opinions and behavior in this particular area.
I thank you for your kind words and for the sake of clarification, the armor being from the days of old is mostly intentional.
It is a intentional call back to the origins of the Infernal's power as even though the Exaltations have been influenced by the 1000 hells, the source is and always will be the Yozi.
It is why I hinted and outright stated that the basalt was "From a demon city far older then Lanka"
I do understand where you are coming from and no worries. But I just want to state that it is a mostly deliberate design to get into touch of an Infernal's roots as it were.
If successful it will cause her not to talk to us or our siblings again, which is all I want out of this conversation.
Also who says our threats have to be insincere?
Because we live in a society.
And her not talking to us does not mean she cannot talk to others about us, and cause reputational litter we have to clean up..
There are good reasons why a good faith effort is warranted.
The whole going to church thing is not just about attending a social club every Sunday.
Not when your father is a Knight of the Cross who actually offers Denarians a chance to surrender.
And takes that surrender when offered.
Remember that Molly doesnt have to come to church. She comes because she wants to.
That means she subscribes to most of the teachings here.
I dont think it works with the themes we're currently working with, with the Wicked City being explicitly cyberpunk, and the Hells being technological places.
But thats my opinion.
I dont think it works with the themes we're currently working with, with the Wicked City being explicitly cyberpunk, and the Hells being technological places.
LAnka and Kakuri are not really influenced by technology, besides nuclear fire.
Most Lanka Charms, more than most other Hell's Charms, still echo the true Demon City.
Being protected by Brass and the knowledge of your own superiority and striking out with hellfire is still totally on theme.
Also in continuation to my above post, part of the reason for why I want full armor was that Infernals in ExWoD are said to be the heralds of a new age and by definition do not belong in this one. It is why I referenced "Long Night" which is the lull after the Nuclear Bombs drop and where advanced Civilization has been ruined and technology has regressed badly. You have seen plenty of post-apocalyptic images where people scavenge under the ruins of Sky-Scrapers, looking for anything to survive. I wanted to evoke those feelings.
In addition, Lanka is not a Technological city. It is more influenced as a Post-Apocalyptic city than anything. A scene of what happens if you drop a nuke on a city.
So the influence was that the form was born from the Ghosts of WW3 where the nukes flew and nations died. The same has also been referenced in how she gained the "Creation Ruling Mandate" from the dead enemies.
It is all in hints only as I did not want to be too overt about it or force the issue if people did not feel comfortable about it.
no, it's a personalized version of progressive Christianity that has sprang in US in 20th century.
yeah... but the way it is expressed is weird.
Human can become addicted to white/red court vamp through no free choice of it's own with no interference from god. Yet if under this influence he commits crimes, it's on him. Neither has he done anything about memetic corruption of black magic, even when it's brought along by circumspect and ignorance, neither victim will see divine providence.
Or what about people who commit evil because of religious teachings?
His crazy support of human 'free will' is expressed mostly from preventing his own servants from corrupting it. That's it. His own servants, whom he made.
His mortal servants? sure, but when in DF God did that personally?
What? Are you quoting one of the angels in DF or something? because they sure as hell do nothing about all the suffering in the world, or something to reign in supernatural predators higher on Food chain. Or what about the lives of aforementioned supernatural? Never-never is pretty much a jungle, where intelligent beings eat and fuck over each other in all the horrible ways unimaginable.
Hell, Mab - an evil queen of air and darkness - has done more for peace and lessening of suffering for humans then White God. Through creating end enforcing Accords that curtail supernatural predation. At least it could have been Angels that has made the accords, not a fucking evil faerie queen.
And here is another thing. If we take this literally to the extreme, that White God is the 1 true god in DF, then what about all the other gods and denominations? Aren't they leading humans to ruin and hell then? Aren't they demons by other name? adn who made them if not one true God?
The result would be that DF is either a world of Gods and Monsters where many competing and equally true creatures exist in complex ecosystem. Where White God is just one other major player.
Or, DF is an entertainment system/thunderdome for the bored and sadistic creator sitting in heaven and eating celestial popcorn while it's animate toys make grand plays down below.
EDIT: To put it shortly, what I want to say is that, power aside, WG philosophical position in DF isn't irreproachable.
It's not actually simply the progressive version of the 20th century Jim Butcher went with the origins of the word catholic which meant universal and how we as humans don't see all of it and many things such a holy tree of another religion can also be holy in the way of God. God's clearly not simply a Christian thing in the dresden verse.
I have a question, melee weapons in V20 based rules are very uniform, even Dark Ages one as far as I remember.
But M20, Mage has a more varied attributes for melee weapons, more spread of damages, difficulties, doing lethal or bashing (crowbar or baseball for example) etc.
Is it possible to use M20 Melee weapon table? Since ExWoD can also work with that.
Or should we keep using V20 for simplicities' sake?
I have a question, melee weapons in V20 based rules are very uniform, even Dark Ages one as far as I remember.
But M20, Mage has a more varied attributes for melee weapons, more spread of damages, difficulties, doing lethal or bashing (crowbar or baseball for example) etc.
Is it possible to use M20 Melee weapon table? Since ExWoD can also work with that.
Or should we keep using V20 for simplicities' sake?
Eh, it has a bit less variety than M20 and some values are different, less actually which is weird for Exalted based WoD and even more for more magical/more active Dresden in my opinion, but eh. But it's completely fine as well.
Another note a out gods and Jim Butcher said there will be a book about God's and a book a out dragons before the apocalypse trio. Few notes Gods don't require faith to exist apparently tly just for connections outside the nevernever. Hades is comparable to mab in power. No idea how much faith takes a role God seems to always have been the creator who God is and what they look like may have changed though since perception of things affects them God may have been as much native American, or Chinese, as he is affected by European culture. Here's a quote from Jim Butcher.
Here's some we might get to in the future. There actually are gods and stuff around and functioning in our world but they're posing as mortals because they're getting way more play as professional wrestlers and rock stars than they ever did as deities. In our world there's a lot of like the old Greek and Roman deities that are still hanging around, they just look very very different and they're not really allowed to do anything except hang on and watch and observe, they're not allowed to get involved in mortal affairs. So they tend to be a lot of smoke and mirrors and thunder and not a lot of things happening, they're not like Odin who is actually involved in the world and there's something right there. That is sort of the limit that the deities have found themselves running into. Eventually at some point in the Dresden Files history there came a point where the Creator was like "okay guys, you were supposed to guide and protect humanity. You sort of did okay in some instances and some places but now it's time for the humans to be making their own way and everybody needs to step off and do it. And if you want to stay involved in the affairs of humanity you're going to have to play and be subject to death as a mortal just like everybody else." And can you really see Zeus going "oh I'm so enamored with the mortals I'm going to risk myself to help them"? You can't really see that but of all the deities in sort of the major western pantheons that I was looking at the one that I really thought would stay involved, it had to be Odin. It had to be the guy who would go to people's homes and visit them to check up that they were maintaining their host rights properly and stuff like that you know. He was genuinely involved with humanity. So I made him that character who said "alright I'll set aside my deific immortality and I'll throw into the game like anybody else will" and then immediately started building himself to become someone cool and taking all these other mantles to maintain his immortality so he could continue doing what Odin always did which was defend and teach humanity. I wanted to have that character in the world doing that that was so much fun to get to write I can't get enough of it I love it.
Maybe we could create something that covers both the anachronism of an infernal and the modern influences of the age of DF?
We've got the post apocalypse, cyberpunk, and endless night in our charm theme set right now. Diesel/steampunk elements fused with the the plate armored knight look could hit something unique, but still touching on those elements.
Old but new, involving technology but not in the classical image of high tech societies. Something recovering, but not back to the way it was before.
Take a little bit of stuff from something like this, and form it from existing charm elements.
To follow the post WW3 theme our hypothetical ascended devil tyrant was not unscathed in the war, but broke the apocalypse before it could break her. Who took what could be made from the scraps of the world that was and used her exalted power to make it something more.
Might as well take a shot at it:
The Empress carries glory and terror about herself like a cloak. Her form tells the story of a war that should never have been, and the world she might yet create from it's ashes.
Her armor is a dull brass; weathered and scoured, but unbroken. Each mark subtly intersects with the others to form subtle signs, extolling her glories and world spanning will in ancient tongues for those with the eyes to see.
The armor itself speaks of terrible power and endless durability; thick plates cover the entirety of her body, with subtle hints at machinery and stranger things at the joints and seams.
At the center of the chest plate burns a caged star; spilling virulent green light out past the bars. As she exerts herself, the nuclear boiler grows brighter, and pulses like a heartbeat. At moments of great strain the strange mechanisms of her shell may scream like steam escaping from a boiler as the eldritch technologies shift to support her expanded soul.
Just above, her helmeted head displays a carving of the infernal's face. An older, more hardened, vision of herself, but one that's still clearly recognizable; a single scar marks her visage, but no two viewers see the same one.
In her right hand she holds a sword of gleaming brass, as glorious and whole as the day she first drew it. The only sign of its long service a small charm hanging from the hilt; a simple wooden cross, no more finely made than might be done with mortal hands.
Transformation:
The infernal stands, squares her shoulders, and seems to shudder under a great weight.
Flickering lines of green light appear over her body; leaving behind the scars of battles not yet fought, and bringing the power of their victories with them.
Between one breath and the next the infernal assumes her full Shintai state, as if it was less a transformation and more a revelation of form.
[] Empress of What Yet Remains
-[] Devil Tyrant Strength +1, Dexterity +4, Stamina +1
-[] Hardened Devil Body x 5
-[] Demon Armor
-[] Swift Stride
What do you guys think? It might be a little too steampunk, but I think a downgraded tech fusion is an interesting direction to take post apocalypse sovereign of a new age Molly.
Edit:
[] Empress of What Yet Remains v2
-[] Devil Tyrant Strength +1, Dexterity +4, Stamina +1
-[] Hardened Devil Body x 4
-[] Demon Armor
-[] Swift Stride
-[] Hardiness(heat)
I don't really like the steampunk aesthetic, is my problem.
That may be a personal issue, though.
Edit: Mhh...Maybe more atompunk?
A nuclear reactor in place of a boiler, and the toxins of the Boiling Oil Hell in place of water?
Could be both "Using the unclean but much more powerful, Hell versions of these themes" and "Using the toxic and evil (Raksha Nuclear Fallout) to boil (cleanse) the toxins of Hell to produce power" as a theme.
Edit 2: It already kind of does that but its much more married to steampunk idea imo.
Perception dude names have power and such. Like.jim Butcher he took the universal of the word catholic where God can be In many things even stuff people thought was pagan. God could just as easily be other creator myths heck skin walkers used to be holy things nothing says they couldn't be attached to God in some way.
What do you guys think? It might be a little too steampunk, but I think a downgraded tech fusion is an interesting direction to take post apocalypse sovereign of a new age Molly.
If we want to effect the world buy 2 dots of expression and the excellency for it. Use our boosters and we can turn out some legendary level poems, plays, music etc, with over 5+ success. Social attacks thou print are the weakest thing an Exalted can do to affect cultural change.
Also red court and black court while no longer human were created as a result of free will. Though black courts arguable since we've been told it's a result of something not native possibly outsiders and so can say fuck you to free will. Also life's not fair there is a choice though involved for EVERY single red court vampire and white court not that it's a good one or even one they know until they've done it for white court. White courts still have souls though and so can make good choices and it matters not that it's easy.
Another possibility that instead of going steampunk for backwards tech due to apocalypse themes...
Go much further in the other direction. Armour that looks like its more like integrated cybernetics, a burning reactor in place of one's heart whose light spills out beyond the synthskin, etc.
Go full post-apocalypse cyberpunk, and also mysticism with symbols, runes and numerical distributions with occult and magical meanings.
As to how this relates to the apocalypse themes? A possibility is that, if Lanka version of nuclear apocalypse happens, the reason there wouldn't be low tech...is that non-augmented or supernaturally protected humans wouldn't survive.
So by dint of all survivors being such, helltech augments may be the post-apocalypse look.
Not guaranteed, but it is possible, which is what the Shintai and Demon Emperor theme needs.
I don't really like the steampunk aesthetic, is my problem.
That may be a personal issue, though.
Edit: Mhh...Maybe more atompunk?
A nuclear reactor in place of a boiler, and the toxins of the Boiling Oil Hell in place of water?
Could be both "Using the unclean but much more powerful, Hell versions of these themes" and "Using the toxic and evil (Raksha Nuclear Fallout) to boil (cleanse) the toxins of Hell to produce power" as a theme.
Edit 2: It already kind of does that but its much more married to steampunk idea imo.
That's fair; I was mostly going for the idea of an exalted putting together the remnants of the world that was with essence power to make something new for the new age. I wanted something on the lower tech end, but Cold War vintage could maybe work.
What would a more atompunk version look like in your view?
Atompunk is basically what Fallout technology is, as far as I know.
What I proposed above isn't atompunk but just a much more radical cyberpunk, closer to full-conversion stuff, maybe Eclipse Phase or 40k level and style of augments, with some hell themes to power generation, inscriptions, etc.
Kakuri can be the cooling fluid made out of darkness itself or something, which spills out into a billowing cloak of darkness.
