Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

If Peabody specifically could do this then it throws lots of other plot points into question. Grave Peril happened specifically for the sake of getting someone strong enough to break the Hidden Halls.

Also, I have no idea what you're talking about with the chemical weapon thing. The reds used that sort of thing on wardens in the field, but I don't recall that being what was going on in Changes. Looking at the wiki for the book I see no mention of it, but instead gave the explanation that the council refused to support his request for a duel because the reds were offering to have peace talks.

The council never shows up because they're officially engaged in those and don't want to screw them up. Harry only ever tells the grey council about what he's doing.

The wiki isn't perfect, but that's a huge plot point to miss.

Canon was close in parts, but not like this. The mist fiend couldn't have practically done enough damage to compare to losing the halls.
1) Grave Peril had nothing to do with the Hidden Halls.
I think you mean Dead Beat.

2) I didnt say chemical weapon, I said biological weapon.
Arianna Ortega snuck one into the Halls when she made that trip as a diplomat at the beginning of Changes. Said bioweapon took down Listens to Wind, Senior Council wizard and the Council's best Life Sphere user.

The Council doesnt show up because, first, they were paralyzed by political infighting, and then they found out that the Reds had sucker punched them, again.
Changes chapter 18 & 40
Changes c18 said:
Mouse immediately went to the bottom of the stairs, his nose questing. Then he turned back to me, tail fanning the air gently. No surprises lurked in my apartment. I went on down into it, waving the candles and fireplace to life with a murmur and a gesture, tearing open the envelope as I went to the fireplace to open it.
Inside was a piece of folded paper and another, smaller envelope, upon which was written, in Luccio's flowing writing, READ ME FIRST. I did:
If you are receiving this letter, it is because someone has rendered me unable to contact you. You must presume that I have been taken out of play entirely.
The bearer of this note is the person I trust the most among every Warden stationed at Edinburgh. I cannot know the particulars of my neutralization, but you can trust his description implicitly, and I have found his judgment to be uncommonly sound in subjective matters.
Good luck, Harry.
-A-
I stared at the note for a moment. Then I unfolded the second piece of paper, very slowly. This one was written in blocky letters so precise that they almost resembled a printed font, rather than handwriting:
Hullo, Dresden.
Luccio wnted me to bring this note to you in the event something happened to her. No idea what her note says, but I'm to give you whatever information I can.
I'm afraid it isn't good news. The Council seems to have gone quite mad.
After your appearance at Cristos's grandstand, a number of ugly things happened. Several young Wardens were caught debating amongst themselves about whether or not they should simply destroy the duchess in Edinburgh to ensure that the war continued—after all, they reasoned, the vampires wouldn't be suing for peace if they could still fight. On Cristos's orders, they were arrested and detained by older members of the Council, none of whom were Wardens, in order to Prevent Them from Destabilizing Diplomatic Deliberations.
Ramirez heard about what had happened and I suspect you can guess that his Spanish-by-way-of-America reaction was more passionate than rational. He and a few friends, only one of whom had any real intelligence, hammered their way into the wing where the Wardens were being detained—at which point every single one of them (except for the genius, naturally) was captured and similarly imprisoned.
It's quiet desperation here. No one can seem to locate anyone on the Senior Council except Cristos, who is quite busily trying to Save Us from Ourselves by sucking up to Duchess Arianna. The Wardens' chain of command is a smashing disaster at the moment. Captain Luccio went to Cristos to demand the release of her people and is, at this time, missing, as are perhaps forty percent of the seniormost Wardens.

She asked me to tell you, Dresden, that you should not return to Edinburgh under any circumstances until the Senior Council sorts this mess out. She isn't sure what would happen to you.
She also wanted me to tell you that you were On Your Own.
I will send dispatches to you as events unfold—assuming I don't Vanish, too.
"Steed"

PS—Why, yes, I can in fact capitalize any words I desire. The language is English. I am English. Therefore mine is the opinion which matters, colonial heathen.
I read over the letter again, more slowly. Then I sat down on the fireplace mantel and swallowed hard.
"Steed" was an appellation I'd stuck on Warden Chandler, who was a fixture of security in Edinburgh, one of the White Council's home guards, and, once I had thought upon it, one of the guys who I'd always seen operating near Anastasia and in positions of trust: Standing as the sole sentinel at a post that normally required half a dozen. Brewing the Wardens and their captain their tea.
He and I had been the only ones present at the conversation where I'd tacked that nickname on him, thanks to the natty suit and bowler he'd been wearing, and the umbrella he'd accessorized—or maybe it was accessorised, in England—with, so the signature itself served as his bona fides. The flippant tone was very like Chandler, as well. I also knew Anastasia's handwriting, and besides, the paper on which her letter was written was scented with one of the very gentle, very subtle perfumes she preferred.
The message was as legitimate as it was likely to get, under the circumstances.
Which meant we were in real trouble.
The White Council carried a fearsome reputation not simply because of its capability of engaging in direct action against an enemy, but because it wielded a great deal of economic power. I mean, it doesn't take a genius to get rich after two hundred and fifty years of compounded interest and open trading. There was an entire brigade of economic warriors for the White Council who constantly sought ways to protect the Council's investments against hostile economic interests sponsored by other long-lived beings, like vampires. Money like that could buy a lot of influence. Not only that, but the Council could make the world a miserable place for someone who had earned their displeasure, in about a million ways, without ever throwing magic directly at someone. There were people in the Council who could play dirty with the most fiendish minds in history.
Taken as a whole, it seemed like a colossus, an institution as fixed and unmoving as a vast and ancient tree, filled with life, with strength, its roots sunk deep into the earth, a survivor of the worst storms the world had offered it.
But all of it, the power, the money, the influence, revolved around a critical core concept—every member of the White Council acted in concert. Or at least, that was the face that was supposed to be presented to the outside world. And it was mostly true. We might squabble and double-deal one another in peacetime, but when there was an enemy at hand we closed ranks. Hell, they'd even done that with me, and most of the Council thought that I was the next-best thing to Darth Vader. But at the end of the day, I think a lot of them secretly liked the idea of having Vader on the team when the monsters showed up. They didn't love me, never would, and I didn't need them to love me to fight beside them. When things got hairy, the Council moved together.
Except now we weren't doing it.

I looked at the folded letter in my hands and had the sudden, instinctive impression that I was watching an enormous tree begin to fall. Slowly at first, made to seem so by its sheer size—but falling nonetheless, to the ruin of anything sheltered beneath its boughs.
I was pretty tired, which probably explained why I didn't have any particular emotional reaction to that line of thought. It should have scared the hell out of me for a laundry list of reasons. But it didn't.
Susan came over to stand near me. "Harry. What is it?"
I stared at the fire. "The White Council can't help us find Maggie," I said quietly. "There are things happening. They'll be of no use to us."
Cristos is the suspected Black Council plant/dupe on the Senior Council who replaced LaFortier.
Changes c40 said:
Ebenezar began to speak and then blinked several times, as if the sun had just come out of a cloud and into his eyes. "Susan and . . ." He paused and asked, "Hoss?"
"I meant to tell you the last time we spoke," I said quietly. "But . . . the conversation wasn't exactly . . ." I took a deep breath. "She's my daughter by Susan Rodriguez."
"Oh," he said very quietly. His face looked grey. "Oh, Hoss."
"Her name's Maggie. She's eight. They took her a few days ago."
He bowed his head and shook it several times, saying nothing. Then he said, "You're sure?"
"Yeah."
"H-how long have you known?"
"Since a day or so after she was taken," I said. "Surprised the hell out of me."
Ebenezar nodded without looking up. Then he said, "You're her father and she needs you. And you want to be there for her."
"Not want to be there," I said quietly. "Going to be."
"Aye-aye," he said. "Don't go back to the Edinburgh facility. We think Arianna laced it with some kind of disease while she was there. So far there are sixty wizards down with it, and we're expecting more. No deaths yet, but whatever this bug is, it's putting them flat on their backs—including Injun Joe, so our best healer isn't able to work on the problem."
"Hell's bells," I said. "They aren't just starting back in on the war again. They're going to try to decapitate the Council in one blow."

Ebenezar grunted. "Aye. And without the Way nexus around Edinburgh, we're going to have a hell of a time with that counterstroke." He sighed. "Hoss, you got a damned big talent. Not real refined, but you've matured a lot in the past few years. Handle yourself better in a fight than most with a couple of centuries behind them. Wish you could be with us."
I wasn't sure how to feel about that. Ebenezar was generally considered the heavyweight champion of the wizarding world when it came to direct, face-to-face mayhem. And I was one of the relatively few people who knew he was also the Blackstaff—the White Council's officially nonexistent hit man, authorized to ignore the Laws of Magic when he deemed it necessary. The old man had fought pretty much everything that put up a fight at one point or another, and he didn't make a habit of complimenting anyone's skills.
"I can't go with you," I said.
"Aye," he said with a firm nod. "You do whatever you have to do, boy. Whatever you have to do to keep your little girl safe. You hear?"
"Yeah," I said. "Thank you, sir."
"Godspeed, son," Ebenezar said. Then he cut the connection.
I released my focus slowly until I was once more in my body in the back of the limo.
For once it wasnt Harry's fault.
Assuming of course, that Chandler was telling the truth. Given that Black Council infiltration was a thing, and Harry hasnt been back to the Halls since Changes, who knows.

But Ebenezar's report is at least reliable. Bioweapon strike under guise of diplomacy.


3) Hard disagree.
Edinburgh is immensely valuable, but its still only a facility. The Council only moved their HQ there around 500 years ago.
As long as they kept control of the Way nexus they would have managed somehow.

If they'd lost the Senior Council they'd have lost the war, and possibly the Council itself.
If they'd lost the five hundred wizards there for Morgan's trial they'd have lost the next war.
 
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Why not use the crown to get directions to the explosives and cut off the plot before it gets too far along? We have McCoy, he should be able to tell us about that sort of thing if needed.

Also, do you have a cite for that bio weapon thing? I've been looking into it and I can't find anything.
Because I'd rather not assume that magical explosives are the entirety of Peabody's Go To Hell plan.

The Council's primary assets are its people.
Senior wizards take centuries to raise and train, and the Senior Council is their strategic arsenal equivalent. Putting even one of them in play begins to win the credibility part of this crisis, and mobilize the undecided.

Also, Im betting that there's a bunch of senior wizards trapped in the Senior Council chambers, and I'd like to put them in play.

You can have wizards and dupes who can in good faith be misled by Secretary to the Senior Council Peabody and (mindcontrolled) Captain Luccio about one Senior Council member, or two.
If all of them are available, it narrows it down to just the traitors and the thralls.

And besides, the Merlin is the foremost known ward user on the Council.
If someone is trying to fuck with the protections on the Hidden Halls to bring them down, having him and a passel of other senior wizards around kinda puts the kibosh on it.
 
If you've had decades or even centuries to prepare for an act of catastrophic sabotage, I can see a patient and skilled wizard setting up some seriously bad mojo without ever being discovered.

How difficult would it be to detect stray wisps of power being expended when the whole area is awash in magic? How many layered, complementary effects could you arrange, none of which is overwhelming in its own regard but which work together to cause devastation?

Maybe a little hydromancy to pull water closer to the Halls in order to weaken their integrity, geomancy to erode the foundations in key places and undermine critical magical infrastructure like wards stones and circles of power, aeromancy to hide pockets of deadly gases, etc, etc, etc. And that's before you get to more modern shit like high explosives, which are generally very stable and shouldn't be subject to techbane if no electronic detonators are attached.

It's easily conceivable that the Halls could be so compromised that even should we prevent total disaster, the amount of sabotage worked on them by Peabody and his fellows could render them uninhabitable for the foreseeable future.
 
I personally dont think the blow up the Halls with explosives is a credible threat.
Not given the magic thats been sunk into this place.

We've seen the kind of force that a single combat spell by a senior wizard can put into a structure at Chitchen Itza, both when Dresden did his antigravity earth spell, and then when McCoy kersploded thousands of tons of stone as a side effect of throwing a punch at the Red King.

Thats more than you're going to manage with anything short of literal hundreds of tons of explosive.

Now magical spell mojo is a different matter. An earthquake spell, perhaps, powered off the ley lines.
And thats what I find a lot more likely here than someone trying to move tons of C4 into the Hidden Halls.
 
I personally dont think the blow up the Halls with explosives is a credible threat.
Not given the magic thats been sunk into this place.

We've seen the kind of force that a single combat spell by a senior wizard can put into a structure at Chitchen Itza, both when Dresden did his antigravity earth spell, and then when McCoy kersploded thousands of tons of stone as a side effect of throwing a punch at the Red King.

Thats more than you're going to manage with anything short of literal hundreds of tons of explosive.

Now magical spell mojo is a different matter. An earthquake spell, perhaps, powered off the ley lines.
And thats what I find a lot more likely here than someone trying to move tons of C4 into the Hidden Halls.
If modern explosives are used, I wouldn't expect the stuff to be intended for mass destruction, but rather more precise damage, such as breaking ward stones, disrupting circles, etc., all things which might be hardened against magical damage rather than mundane.

I'm just blindly speculating, though.
 
Because I'd rather not assume that magical explosives are the entirety of Peabody's Go To Hell plan.

The Council's primary assets are its people.
Senior wizards take centuries to raise and train, and the Senior Council is their strategic arsenal equivalent. Putting even one of them in play begins to win the credibility part of this crisis, and mobilize the undecided.

Also, Im betting that there's a bunch of senior wizards trapped in the Senior Council chambers, and I'd like to put them in play.

You can have wizards and dupes who can in good faith be misled by Secretary to the Senior Council Peabody and (mindcontrolled) Captain Luccio about one Senior Council member, or two.
If all of them are available, it narrows it down to just the traitors and the thralls.

And besides, the Merlin is the foremost known ward user on the Council.
If someone is trying to fuck with the protections on the Hidden Halls to bring them down, having him and a passel of other senior wizards around kinda puts the kibosh on it.
We just asked what his plan was, and the crown isn't an evil genie. This is ludicrous enough without him also having resources for a backup for his backup screw everything plan.

I have a very hard time swallowing the idea that he trapped a significant number of wizards like that. There are limits to the abject stupidity we should assign to the council. Sure he's highly placed, but the wizards aren't this ineffectual.

The idea of Odin accidentally walking the council into a cage built around their meeting room without them noticing or the premier warder on the planet being locked in an dog crate assembled in less than a business day is ludicrous.

Peabody is well connected and dangerous, but when the council learned who he was he ran.

The scenario you're outlining reads like Peabody is the only wizard on the planet allowed to roll any dice.
 
We just asked what his plan was, and the crown isn't an evil genie. This is ludicrous enough without him also having resources for a backup for his backup screw everything plan.

I have a very hard time swallowing the idea that he trapped a significant number of wizards like that. There are limits to the abject stupidity we should assign to the council. Sure he's highly placed, but the wizards aren't this ineffectual.

The idea of Odin accidentally walking the council into a cage built around their meeting room without them noticing or the premier warder on the planet being locked in an dog crate assembled in less than a business day is ludicrous.

Peabody is well connected and dangerous, but when the council learned who he was he ran.

The scenario you're outlining reads like Peabody is the only wizard on the planet allowed to roll any dice.
1)The Crown said nothing about explosives, magical or otherwise. I quote:
You were in... now all you need to do is find the traitor. On the one hand using your Crown to navigate would give you a direct path to were he is right this moment, but on the other you cannot help but worry of all the times you demonstrated a 'skill for divination'. Most the terms of the equation are there if they care to look and you very much worry that your present company is good at this sort of math. The walls shake, once and then again twice in quick succession.

And on the third hand you might be running out of time. The words of your second prisoner come back all too sharply. 'Tear down the supports...'

What are the plans of the consipiracy? You look down at the copper tube in your hands.
Tear down the Hall. Kill the brave and drive out the craven. The answer is stark and terribile. If no one stops this the Hidden Halls will not stay hidden long.
Tremors speak to seismic activity.
Which I would assume in this instance to be spells, or rituals, or spirits.
Not hundreds of tons of explosives.

You are making an assumption about explosives that doesnt appear to be borne out by the evidence we are seeing.




2) Why? He has quite literally been in the confidence of the highest levels for at least a decade,
He canonically had a Senior Council member murdered in their own rooms in Council HQ and got away clean.
He walked into Council HQ with an Outsider inside a bottle.

McCoy literally just told us that he almost got trapped this way, outside, where he was on his guard.
Nobody expects that kinda shit in their own home.
Noone's on guard in their own safe space.




3)As the citation I provided showed from Summer Knight, it was/is customary for the Council to rely on other wizards to seal large numbers of wizards in to meetings to prevent supernatural intrusion.It might literally be as simple as a party of mind-controlled Wardens slapping an additional pre-made ward prepared by someone else on top of that.

We know they are possible to make in both World of Darkness and Dresden Files; hell, we see Harry make one for Molly to protect herself in Turn Coat, and three Senior Council wizards couldnt deactivate it quickly or safely because it was fail-deadly, and could have blown up a hilltop if fucked with.

I dont know, just speculating.



4) The entire Senior Council was canonically locked out of the NeverNever for almost a day by enemy magic.
It was literally a major plot point in Dead Beat
Luccio frowned, then glanced across the table at Ramirez.
"Three days ago, Zulu time," Ramirez provided quietly.
"I've not slept," Luccio said. "Between that and all the travel, I lose track." She took another drink of ale and said, "The attack was vicious.They were coming for the Senior Council, and their sorcerers managed to cut us off from escaping into the Nevernever for nearly a day. We lost thirty-eight Wardens that day, in fighting all over Sicily."
I sat there for a moment, stunned. Thirty-eight. Stars and stones, there were only about two hundred Wardens on the Council. Not every wizard had the kind of talent that made them dangerous in a face-to-face confrontation. Most of those who did were Wardens. In a single day, the Red Court had killed nearly 20 percent of our fighting force.
"They paid for it," Morgan rumbled quietly. "But… they seemed almost mad to die in order to kill us. Driven. I saw four different death curses unleashed that day. I saw vampires climb over mounds of their own dead without so much as slowing down. We must have taken twenty of their warriors for every loss of our own." He closed his eyes and his sour face was suddenly masked with very real and very human grief. "They kept coming."
"We had many wounded," Luccio said. "So many wounded. As soon as the Senior Council was able to open the ways into the Nevernever, we retreated to the paths through Faerie. And we were pursued."
I sat up straight. "What?"
Morgan nodded. "The Red Court followed us into the territory of the Sidhe," he said.
"They had to know," I said quietly. "They had to know that by pressing the attack in Faerie itself they would anger the Sidhe. They've just declared war on Summer and Winter alike."
"Yes," Morgan said in a flat voice. "But it didn't stop them. They attacked us as we retreated. And…" He glanced at Luccio as if in appeal.
She gave him a firm look and said to me, "They had called demons to assist them." She inhaled slowly. "Not simply beasts from the Nevernever. They had gone to the Netherworld. They had called Outsiders."
I took a longer drink of Mac's ale. Outsiders. Demons were bad enough, but they were at least something I was fairly familiar with. The reaches of the Nevernever, the world of spirit and magic that surrounds the mortal world, are filled with all kinds of beings. Most of them really don't give a damn about mortal affairs, and we are nothing but a remote and unimportant curiosity to them. When beings of the spirit world are interested in mortal business, it's for a good reason. The ones who like to eat us, hurt us, or generally terrify us are what wizards commonly refer to as demons, as a general term. They're bad enough.
Outsiders, though, were so rarely spoken of that they were all but a rumor. I wasn't really clear on all of the details, but the Outsiders had been the servants and foot soldiers of the Old Ones, an ancient race of demons or gods who had once ruled the mortal world, but who had apparently been cast out and locked away from our reality.
There was a specific Law of Magic against contacting them-Thou Shalt Not Open the Outer Gates. No one wanted to be the one suddenly suspected of opening ways for the Outsiders to enter the mortal world. The Wardens absolutely did not play around with violations of the Laws of Magic. Their entire purpose in life was to protect the Council-first from violators of the seven Laws, and then from everyone else.
I eyed the folded grey cloak on the table in front of me.
"I thought only mortal magic could call up Outsiders," I said quietly.
Luccio said quietly, "You are correct."
My stomach lurched a little. Someone had told the Red Court where to find the Council. Someone had blocked off their escape route to the Nevernever so strongly that the most powerful wizards on the planet had required a full day to open them again. And someone had begun calling up Outsiders in numbers, sending them to attack the White Council.
The Council is not what it was, Cowl had said. It has rotted from the inside. It will fall. Soon.
"The Wardens fell back to fight a holding action against the Red Court so that our wounded could escape to safety," Luccio reported, her crisp voice at odds with her weary eyes. "That was when they loosed the Outsiders upon us. We lost another twenty-three Wardens in the first moments of combat, and many more were wounded." There was silence while she took a long pull from her bottle, emptying it, then setting it down sharply on the table, anger flickering in her eyes. "If Senior Council members McCoy and Liberty had not come to our aid, we might have all died there. Even with them, we managed to hold them only long enough for the Gatekeeper and the Merlin to raise a ward behind us, to give us time to escape."
"A ward?" I blurted. "Are you telling me that they stonewalled an entire army of vampires and demons? With one ward?"
"You don't get to be Merlin of the White Council by collecting bottle caps," Ramirez said, his voice dry.
I glanced aside at Ramirez. He grinned at me and swigged beer.
That level of power has been previously demonstrated as a planned event, so it would not be surprising to see it here.
IMO.

===
Do remember that Peabody here is essentially the field director for the archmage-turned-Outsider called Ashraaaf.
He's not acting alone or without support.
 
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Current tally:
Adhoc vote count started by uju32 on Sep 16, 2024 at 10:07 PM, finished with 29 posts and 3 votes.

  • [X] Head right for the Senior Council Chambers
    -[X]Molly: All Things Betray: 1m
    -[X]Tiffany: Lore of Flesh 3(Perception) + Lore of Awareness 3(if necessary): 0
    -[X]Sophia: Secret of Gaia + Sense The Unnatural: 1WP
    [X] Split up, you and the Circle look for the source of the tremors the wizards try to find more of the Senior Council
 
If modern explosives are used, I wouldn't expect the stuff to be intended for mass destruction, but rather more precise damage, such as breaking ward stones, disrupting circles, etc., all things which might be hardened against magical damage rather than mundane.

I'm just blindly speculating, though.
Using explosives in the wizard filled area seems like it would be a real pain. You are basically forced to burring fuses rather then electronic time devices or expect at least half of you bombs to not go off or go off too soon.
 
[X] Split up, you and the Circle look for the source of the tremors the wizards try to find more of the Senior Council

Might rethink this later, but it's where I'm leaning now.
 
[X] uju32

You were in... now all you need to do is find the traitor. On the one hand using your Crown to navigate would give you a direct path to were he is right this moment, but on the other you cannot help but worry of all the times you demonstrated a 'skill for divination'. Most the terms of the equation are there if they care to look and you very much worry that your present company is good at this sort of math. The walls shake, once and then again twice in quick succession.

And on the third hand you might be running out of time. The words of your second prisoner come back all too sharply. 'Tear down the supports...'

What are the plans of the consipiracy? You look down at the copper tube in your hands.

Tear down the Hall. Kill the brave and drive out the craven. The answer is stark and terribile. If no one stops this the Hidden Halls will not stay hidden long.
@uju32 I really think we'll have to split up after a reread because the earthquake parts are happening now and not in the future, meaning Peabody (or more likely one of his lackeys) is already tearing down the walls in real time, and our crown just confirmed that this was one of his plans.

It's better to split us into two teams: the first with Molly/McCoy/Carlos/Tiff, so that our heavy hitters can go to the Council halls after the other members of the Senior Council, and the place where I suspect Peabody is because he knows that if the other Archmages (especially Merlin) leave he's screwed and now he just needs to delay us and let the Hidden Halls fall to have an advantage and make sure that even if he dies he'll still have dealt a blow that will paralyze the Council for years when they're already in the middle of a war.

And Morgan/Sophia/Harry/Lydia/Olivia, who are less powerfull but would have syergetic specialties, to take down whoever is making those noises and any minions scattered around.

All this with the same activated charms from your plan because they are useful.
 
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[X] Plan Divide and Conquer
-[X] Split up, you and the Circle look for the source of the tremors the wizards try to find more of the Senior Council
--[X]
Molly, McCoy, Carlos, Tiffany, 1 War Weaver and A combat Sorcerer head to the Senior Council Chamber
---[X] Molly: All Things Betray: 1 WP
---[X] Molly: Rage Recast No Cost
---[X] Tiffany: Lore of Flesh 3(Perception) + Lore of Awareness 3(if necessary): 0
--[X] Morgan, Sophia, Harry, Lydia, Olivia, 4 War Weavers, 2 combat Sorcerers and the 2 Hand agents look for the source of the tremors
---[X] Sophia: Secret of Gaia + Sense The Unnatural: 1WP
-[X] Stunt: You let out a sigh as you feel the tension of their enemies' plan already in action "Peabody is literally trying to tear down the walls of the Council headquarters and he certainly wants to stop us from getting the Defense Specialist in the form of Merlin" You say as the shadows around darken and the walls begin to tell the secrets of this ancient fortress "We have to split up or even if we get the Senior Council, the entire White Council will be homeless."
 
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[X] Plan Divide and Conquer
-[X] Split up, you and the Circle look for the source of the tremors the wizards try to find more of the Senior Council
--[X] Molly, McCoy, Carlos, Tiffany, 1 War Weaver and A combat Sorcerer head to the Senior Council Chamber
---[X] Molly: All Things Betray: 1 WP
---[X] Molly: Rage Recast No Cost
---[X] Tiffany: Lore of Flesh 3(Perception) + Lore of Awareness 3(if necessary): 0
--[X] Morgan, Sophia, Harry, Lydia, Olivia, 4 War Weavers, 2 combat Sorcerers and the 2 Hand agents look for the source of the tremors
---[X] Sophia: Secret of Gaia + Sense The Unnatural: 1WP

This works for me.
 
Adhoc vote count started by Anaja on Sep 17, 2024 at 12:54 AM, finished with 36 posts and 6 votes.

  • [X] Plan Divide and Conquer
    -[X] Split up, you and the Circle look for the source of the tremors the wizards try to find more of the Senior Council
    --[X] Molly, McCoy, Carlos, Tiffany, 1 War Weaver and A combat Sorcerer head to the Senior Council Chamber
    ---[X] Molly: All Things Betray: 1 WP
    ---[X] Molly: Rage Recast No Cost
    ---[X] Tiffany: Lore of Flesh 3(Perception) + Lore of Awareness 3(if necessary): 0
    --[X] Morgan, Sophia, Harry, Lydia, Olivia, 4 War Weavers, 2 combat Sorcerers and the 2 Hand agents look for the source of the tremors
    ---[X] Sophia: Secret of Gaia + Sense The Unnatural: 1WP
    [X] Head right for the Senior Council Chambers
    -[X]Molly: All Things Betray: 1m
    -[X]Tiffany: Lore of Flesh 3(Perception) + Lore of Awareness 3(if necessary): 0
    -[X]Sophia: Secret of Gaia + Sense The Unnatural: 1WP
    [X] Split up, you and the Circle look for the source of the tremors the wizards try to find more of the Senior Council
 
@Degorium, could you put a stunt where Molly warns our companions? Like:

Molly lets out a sigh as she feels the tension in her enemies' plan already in action "Peaboy is literally trying to tear down the walls of the Council headquartersa and he certainly wants to stop us from getting the Defense Specialist in the form of Merlin" she says as the shadows around darken and begin to tell her secrets of this ancient fortress "We have to split up or even if we get the Senior Council, the entire White Council will be homeless."
 
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@Degorium, could you put a stun where Molly warns our companions? Like:

Molly lets out a sigh as she feels the tension in her enemies' plan already in action "Peaboy is literally trying to tear down the walls of the Council headquartersa and he certainly wants to stop us from getting the Defense Specialist in the form of Merlin" she says as the shadows around darken and begin to tell her secrets of this ancient fortress "We have to split up or even if we get the Senior Council, the entire White Council will be homeless."
I was having trouble thinking of a stunt for it but that works perfectly thank you.
 
In order:
[X] uju32


@uju32 I really think we'll have to split up after a reread because the earthquake parts are happening now and not in the future, meaning Peabody (or more likely one of his lackeys) is already tearing down the walls in real time, and our crown just confirmed that this was one of his plans.

It's better to split us into two teams: the first with Molly/McCoy/Carlos/Tiff, so that our heavy hitters can go to the Council halls after the other members of the Senior Council, and the place where I suspect Peabody is because he knows that if the other Archmages (especially Merlin) leave he's screwed and now he just needs to delay us and let the Hidden Halls fall to have an advantage and make sure that even if he dies he'll still have dealt a blow that will paralyze the Council for years when they're already in the middle of a war.

And Morgan/Sophia/Harry/Lydia/Olivia, who are less powerfull but would have syergetic specialties, to take down whoever is making those noises and any minions scattered around.

All this with the same activated charms from your plan because they are useful.
1) That is a tremor. It doesnt tell us anything about imminence, just that something is going on.
Splitting up will simply get people killed. Both members of our party AND other wizards.
We already saw Mad Marge almost die by stumbling into a trap.


2) Furthermore?
Senior Council wizard McCoy is the only person with the authority to override Captain Luccio, who we know from the Crown is mindcontrolled. Sophia is our only party member for breaking mindcontrol. However they have the rest of the Council trapped, the fact that the Council hasnt broken loose means that we need Molly and Lydia and their Excellency-boosted counterspelling.

Sending other wizards when the archwizards of the Senior Council cant break out is a waste of time.


3) No. If the Senior Council is lost, the Council loses the war. Thats why the Red Court has tried so hard to kill them.
It was the Senior Council that kept the Council going after the Wardens lost most of their personnel two years ago.
They are their strategic nuclear equivalent.

Edinburgh is an important fortress, but thats all it is; its not their only fortress, and while they have owned it since the time of Merlin, they only moved here as their current HQ at the end of the Middle Ages 500 years ago.
The Hidden Halls of Edinburgh were the redoubt and fortress of the White Council of Wizardry from time immemorial. Well, actually, that last bit isn't true. It's been our headquarters for a little under five hundred years.
The White Council has existed since pre-Roman times, in one form or another, and its headquarters has shifted from time to time, and place to place. Alexandria, Carthage, Rome—we were in the Vatican in the early days of the Church, believe it or not—Constantinople and Madrid have all been home to the Council's leadership at one time or another—but since the end of the Middle Ages, they've been located in the tunnels and catacombs hewn from the unyielding stone of Scotland.

Edinburgh 's tunnel network is even more extensive than those beneath the city of Chicago, and infinitely more stable and sturdy. The main headquarters of the complex is located deep beneath the Auld Rock itself—Castle Edinburgh, where kings and queens, lords and ladies, have defied, besieged, betrayed and slaughtered one another since pre-Christian times.
There's a reason a fortress has been there for as long as mankind can remember—it is one of the world's largest convergences of ley lines. Ley lines are the natural currents of magical energy running through the world. They are the most powerful means of employing magic known to man—and the lines that intersect in the earth deep below the Auld Rock represent a staggering amount of raw power waiting to be tapped by someone skilled or foolish enough.
I walked over a ley line about three steps after I entered the Hidden Halls, and I could feel its shuddering energy beneath my feet, rushing by like an enormous, silent subterranean river. I walked a bit faster for a few paces, irrationally nervous about being swept off of my feet by it, until I could only sense it as a dim and receding vibration in the ground.
A bunch of those places still exist.
The main value of Edinburgh is the Way nexus it sits on, and that cant be destroyed.

If you are breaking the Laws, obtaining a nuke isn't that hard. Making one is arguably even easier.
No, that is ridiculous.
Man-portable nuclear devices do not grow on trees, and abstracting one without raising a hullabaloo is near-on impossible as far as we are aware. Smuggling it into the magic-dense field of the Hidden Halls is even harder.

The conspirators are wizards; they will fuck up a man-portable nuke just by standing next to it.
Nevermind carrying it into a place where magic is so dense it feels like a river underfoot.
 
No, that is ridiculous.
Man-portable nuclear devices do not grow on trees, and abstracting one without raising a hullabaloo is near-on impossible as far as we are aware. Smuggling it into the magic-dense field of the Hidden Halls is even harder.

The conspirators are wizards; they will fuck up a man-portable nuke just by standing next to it.
Nevermind carrying it into a place where magic is so dense it feels like a river underfoot.
Without potentially going to jail, I can only say that as far as I know at least early nuclear devices would not be strongly affected by techbane, because there's nothing to be affected there.

Moving onto safer topics - obtaining enriched nuclear material and affecting the rate of nuclear decay should be fairly trivial. Entropic magic is already a thing. As is time magic. If you want to make a magic nuke, and you know that nukes work in general (and you do, because Morgan used one), then you don't need the bomb itself. You only need nuclear material (fairly trivial to obtain if you are law breaking already), and then you enchant it.
 
Without potentially going to jail, I can only say that as far as I know at least early nuclear devices would not be strongly affected by techbane, because there's nothing to be affected there.

Moving onto safer topics - obtaining enriched nuclear material and affecting the rate of nuclear decay should be fairly trivial. Entropic magic is already a thing. As is time magic. If you want to make a magic nuke, and you know that nukes work in general (and you do, because Morgan used one), then you don't need the bomb itself. You only need nuclear material (fairly trivial to obtain if you are law breaking already), and then you enchant it.
1) Well, we dont want you going to jail to win an Internet argument :V
This is Wikipedia's (incomplete)cutaway diagram of Little Boy
Note all the electric parts of the fusing and control systems. The timers. The batteries.
There is no nuke Im aware of that has not required electrical fuzing.
Little Boy certainly wasnt man-portable either; it weighed 4 metric tons.

I think you are underestimating just how intricate even a basic deployable device is, as opposed to a simple lab proof of concept, and just how much can go wrong, both benignly and catastrophically when magic gets involved.




2) I strongly disagree. The theory of nuclear bombmaking is within the grasp of high-school students; the actual engineering is significantly more rigorous. A nuclear truck bomb is doable with nationstate resources, but a man-portable device makes it orders of magnitude more complicated.

Even just getting significant amounts of fissile material without anyone noticing is hilariously difficult.

As for enchanting it, thats like saying that you only need to enchant purified silicon to make a computer.
Technically true, but skips a very large question about how you enchant it; its not just spitting fauxLatin words.
All this just sounds like a prescription for getting your would-be bombmaker Demon Core'd.

Saying that a *checks* 54 wizard conspiracy is supposed to covertly refine their own uranium and make a nuke is ridiculous.
They are wizards.
They are going to stay in their lane and use magic, the skill they actually trained.



3) Point of order: Morgan didnt use a nuke.
Morgan lured a naagloshii into the location where the US was using/testing a nuke.
Small, but significant difference.



==
Anyway, this is a digression.
Im asking that people do not split the party in the face of unknown threat, in a place where we need both military superiority and political authority.

Its been less than six hours since everything kicked off. It has to take the conspirators longer than that to try to tear down a place as magically invested as this, and Molly can move. The only reason Im not having Molly use MHM to pick up everyone and fly is because we dont know what magical traps may be in the tunnels of Edinburgh.
 
Note all the electric parts of the fusing and control systems. The timers. The batteries.
There is no nuke Im aware of that has not required electrical fuzing.
Little Boy certainly wasnt man-portable either; it weighed 4 metric tons.

I think you are underestimating just how intricate even a basic deployable device is, as opposed to a simple lab proof of concept, and just how much can go wrong, both benignly and catastrophically when magic gets involved.
I'll put it this way - electric doesn't mean electronic, and batteries used in military systems are not batteries used in household devices. If Dresden can drive a car, and there's an enchanted phoneboard in headquarters, then the bomb is certainly viable.

It also needs not be inside the Halls. Being nearby would work.
2) I strongly disagree. The theory of nuclear bombmaking is within the grasp of high-school students; the actual engineering is significantly more rigorous. A nuclear truck bomb is doable with nationstate resources, but a man-portable device makes it orders of magnitude more complicated.

Even just getting significant amounts of fissile material without anyone noticing is hilariously difficult.

As for enchanting it, thats like saying that you only need to enchant purified silicon to make a computer.
Technically true, but skips a very large question about how you enchant it; its not just spitting fauxLatin words.
All this just sounds like a prescription for getting your would-be bombmaker Demon Core'd.

Saying that a *checks* 54 wizard conspiracy is supposed to covertly refine their own uranium and make a nuke is ridiculous.
They are wizards.
They are going to stay in their lane and use magic, the skill they actually trained.
Obtaining enriched fissile material if you are Lawbreaking is easy. As is obtaining nukes themselves. There are missing nukes IRL. That at least one or several of them are in supernatural hands (likely fomor and quite possibly warlocks of some kind) is very plausible. Obtaining enriched material is easier.

From there one has to speculate, but I am betting that entropic magic or time magic can be used to affect the rate of nuclear decay and radioactivity. From there, you enchant two pieces of subcritical mass to lower its radiocativity, rendering them temporarily inert, push them together to produce critical mass (still inert), then encase them in a sturdy casing (possibly enchanted). And you are done. Now you break the enchantments, and you have yourself a nuke. The casing just needs to survive long enough for the reaction to really start going. For additional yield, instead of turning the magic off, turn in around to increase the rate of nuclear decay (that's basic entropic curse by the way).

And we know that magic can mess with time and probabilistic events.
3) Point of order: Morgan didnt use a nuke.
Morgan lured a naagloshii into the location where the US was using/testing a nuke.
Small, but significant difference.
Not for this purpose. Wizards know what nukes are and where to get them.
 
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