Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

1) An industrial-strength walk-in freezer. Strong enough to trigger Without Honor, Without Hope. With a smart door into which a demon can be put, to trigger Cracked Cell Circumvention.
2) In this environment craft a "craft assisting suit". Essentially a body glove that can be filled with liquid to trigger Charred Sinner renewal, and equipped with an upling to the internet / database of material science, a timer, and a variety of sensors (what we can make). Enough so that when infused with a demon, the demon could assist us by keeping tabs on various processes, link with any computerized equipment, and look up information on stuff from internet / patent databases. The suit should be electrically insulated, but not thermally insulated, so Without Honor, Without Hope can still trigger. The liquid should be chosen such that it won't freeze in the conditions of the freezer.
3) A second version of the industrial-strength walk-in freezer, probably focused on energy efficiency.
The Yama Kings would be proud.

If we put a messager in the smart door we can make it rat out or siblings if they go into our workshop as well.

Which isn't a problem I would be too worried about, but some stuff in there is likely to be dangerous.
 
The suit should be electrically insulated, but not thermally insulated, so Without Honor, Without Hope can still trigger. The liquid should be chosen such that it won't freeze in the conditions of the freezer.
Would filling it with some anti-freeze liquid work?

Like in a car.

It should both be toxic enough and not freeze.
 
Anti freeze is poisonous.

Not sure if a wet suit counts for it, but a tub nearby shouldnt be an issue either.

@DragonParadox Does this charm let us breath underwater? I assume it doesnt let us inhale toxic vapors safely.
 
It looks like it has an easy exploit until you consider the amount of power knowledge and skill it would take to perform that exploit. I explained what those limitations are and why a new made spirit would not do any better and in some cases marginally worse. If you still have questions I am of course open to answering them.
I see no reason a person could not just capture the demon with a simple binding, extract its name, banish it, and re-summon it to gain all the information it has. A massive windfall if it in something like a cities camera network. If the are actually good they could pull the same trick as the charm, and take over networks by summoning the same demon under their control. Why not they have the name of a minor tech demon, and stuff to put them into. People in Dresden could definitely benefit from access to the new type of tech demons out of the wicked city.

Way I see it for the original charm the awakened spirit does not have intelligence to remember things if if the charm ends. The charm empowers the 1's and 0s of the processor into an charm powered artificial AI. And should the charm end the gifted mind dissipates and it returns to being 1's and 0's again. Yeah you can ask a random crowbar who has used it, and it might be able to tell one person apart from another. But it could not tell you what the looked like they have no eyes to see, or ears to hear. At most it could tell you what their hands felt like.
 
I see no reason a person could not just capture the demon with a simple binding, extract its name, banish it, and re-summon it to gain all the information it has. A massive windfall if it in something like a cities camera network. If the are actually good they could pull the same trick as the charm, and take over networks by summoning the same demon under their control. Why not they have the name of a minor tech demon, and stuff to put them into. People in Dresden could definitely benefit from access to the new type of tech demons out of the wicked city.

Way I see it for the original charm the awakened spirit does not have intelligence to remember things if if the charm ends. The charm empowers the 1's and 0s of the processor into an charm powered artificial AI. And should the charm end the gifted mind dissipates and it returns to being 1's and 0's again. Yeah you can ask a random crowbar who has used it, and it might be able to tell one person apart from another. But it could not tell you what the looked like they have no eyes to see, or ears to hear. At most it could tell you what their hands felt like.
-_-
 
While you can make all this stuff you are going to need actual money for the resources to craft it out of and given the floor-space you would need it might make sense to just buy a place to do all this in
So, we need a base of operation, I guess. Then we should modify the order of operation. First, craft the suit and a door. Those should be easy, and could use materials from a junkyard / a normal diving suit. Then remake the suit.

Would filling it with some anti-freeze liquid work?

Like in a car.

It should both be toxic enough and not freeze.
It should. We could also go around making the freezer by just making a wearable chiller attached to the suit or something like that, now that I think about it.

Hell, I think we should at least look into making an armored full-body suit with a small but super-efficient chiller, so we could benefit from Without Honor, Without Hope and Charred Sinner Renewal while in combat.

@DragonParadox if we make a suit with programmable lockable joints (normally unlocked, but which can restrict movement if activated), with a demon in it, and specify a condition "lock the joints if I move farther than X meters, until Y condition is satisfied", would we then be able to use CCC to achieve the condition specified? if so, this could be used as an emergency power up in a fight.
 
So, we need a base of operation, I guess. Then we should modify the order of operation. First, craft the suit and a door. Those should be easy, and could use materials from a junkyard / a normal diving suit. Then remake the suit.


It should. We could also go around making the freezer by just making a wearable chiller attached to the suit or something like that, now that I think about it.

Hell, I think we should at least look into making an armored full-body suit with a small but super-efficient chiller, so we could benefit from Without Honor, Without Hope and Charred Sinner Renewal while in combat.

@DragonParadox if we make a suit with programmable lockable joints (normally unlocked, but which can restrict movement if activated), with a demon in it, and specify a condition "lock the joints if I move farther than X meters, until Y condition is satisfied", would we then be able to use CCC to achieve the condition specified? if so, this could be used as an emergency power up in a fight.
Without honor without hope needs environmental cold, not just us being cold.

Otherwise good ideas yes.
 
We cannot actually unless we spend days on it. Even in exalted proper you can't stunt an action your taking often. If it's a routine action it's like walking around saying thou a demon your a demon, is a boring task. Stunt have to be big epic important stuff. Not banal mundane stuff even if it only banal to the exalted
This is not true.
In Ex2E you dont have to stunt, but you can if you choose. Actions that are automatically successful dont need you to stunt, so , but if its important enough to demand word count, you can stunt.

An action where you are burning Essence to use a Charm? Damn right you can stunt.
IIRC, it was routine to stunt your dodges and parries in combat, let alone the act of investing a spirit in a technological item.
@DragonParadox, would really, really salty water qualify for Charred Sinner Renewal? I know that might seem like a copout, but water with a super high salinity is absolutely lethal to anything except robust and specialized extremophiles.
You need around 370g of salt to saturate a liter of water.
A standard US bathtub can hold around 80 gallons of water, which would be around 300 liters.
You would need more than a hundred and ten kilograms of salt to turn a bathtub of water into saturated brine.

Just unlock Sorcery Path Hellfire, and fill the tub half with ice until its deadly cold, or make the water boil.
Alternatively, grab a bottle or two of Clorox and empty it into the bathtub, or pure eucalyptus oil or camphor.
Cheaper, easier to store.

And dont forget to turn on the bathroom fan to get rid of fumes.

...What happens if you botch on the roll to summon a cyberdemon?
Your charms dont hurt you iirc. Old Exalted rule. Nobody pays XP for their intrinsic powers to fuck them over.
Botching Sorcery when summoning something can make your life Interesting, but thats Sorcery, not charmtech.
If the summoning of demons is a function of your charms, you cant botch. You can just fail.

I still don't get why this is a problem.
Look at most of Kakuri or Offering of Blood and Meat or parts of VEE. Infernals aren't moral, especially since being patterned off Hells. Or Crowned By Fury. There its not even about "do I have the right" but "I now control you, obey or you tear yourself apart".
This is a crossover with Dresden Files.
The whole reason Infernal charms have the flavor they do is because of the background cosmology of Creation with vengeful Primordials intentionally

A non-Primordial universe is under no obligation to work exactly the same way.
Especially a cosmology where the supreme authority is not a video game addict.
Yes, but the question brought up the identity of the spirit.
Just as its only a transformation, an awakened spirit is no more enslaved than a toaster is by performing its function when used by a human.

Edit: DragonParadox, we are playing an Infernal. I don't know how to tell you, their Charms come from Hell patterns.
Is enslaving the mind of a person trying to shoot you more moral? Maybe so, but it is not moral in the absolute.
I would argue sending anyone at all to a Hell can not be moral in any event, yet we can do it.

If you just refluff everything, you drain both the flavour, and the story potential of Infernals out.
What would be temptation to use power, but it comes with a moral cost becomes "just do it, moral temptation doesnt exist in Hell born power".
Molly Carpenter, daughter of the Fist of God, and attendee of Sunday School, is our PC. She is currently living at home.
While a game where Molly is one of the threats that Michael and his colleagues are supposed to hunt might be interesting to some, its not really the sort of game Im here for. And I doubt most other people are here for it either.

Infernal stories have always been about how you choose to play them.
The framing you're pushing for would IC make an Infernal shard as much a danger, if not more, than a Denarian coin, and in the Dresdenverse, the bearer would be treated the same way.

I feel many modern garou are less assholes and just picking up the pieces of their fucked up ancestors and dealing with their problems. Unsure how many modern Garou are really aware how fucked up their ancestors were and justify the stupid stupid genocides of other shifters.
Nah. I took a look at the W20 core sourcebook.
Garou are arseholes.
Cant blame this on ancestors; their society is systematically fucked up, and remains that way into the modern day.

But it is a danger introduced to where originally there was none.

Okay, let me try to understand.
Is Hell, the Wicked City, as moral as Molly?
If no, then why is a Charm from there something related to her morality.

This is the one thing I can't wrap my head around. Its a Hell, and not even a Hell which adheres to celestial principles but runaway, more evil than should be Hell.
And our powers come from there.

Edit: Infernal Exaltation doesn't give a shit and uses the Hell's as bluepritns specifically, but same end meaning.
Because this is a Dresden Files crossover.

Ahem... to make this clear because people seem to be misreading me:
There is no Extra danger from them being demons

The demons are too minor to be picked up by anyone of note in good time, too eager to get a free pass out of hell in a way that circumscribes their superiors to sell you out. On another note if I did change the fluff I would have to go through every update since I introduced the concept and change it, That does not sound worthwhile and it certainly does not sound fun to me.
Alternative explanation:
Every demon/spirit summoned by Molly's charms is arcanely linked to her, and if its container is destroyed, it goes to sleep in her anima until she resummons it, like dead familiars do. When she creates her inner Hell, they move to her pocket dimension.
Because Exalted charmtech, that you paid XP for, are not a danger to the wielder.

Avoids all the questions about spirits getting ambushed and interrogated when desummoned.
I think small gods are quite compatible with Dresdenverse, Bob would be one for instance and there are Loa running around, Harry uses a minor one for divination at one point.
They are. Lots of them around.
The hexenwulfen belts contained spirits, the lycanthropes were possessed by spirits of rage, Loup Garou are described as possessed by wolf-demons of some sort, the Loa are oracular spirits, boggles are under the bed, etc.

Bonea is Dresden's second daughter by way of Lash, a spirit of knowledge gestated in Dresden's head after Lash died and born via magical brain surgery in a deliberate echo of how Athena was born by splitting Zeus' head.
Yes, mpreg is canon in the Dresdenverse. :V
except those with some form of intellectus that would inform them its fair to assume even those with intellectus wouldn't know in this case. Maybe mother winter does shes kind of a non factor on mortal level though.
Intellectus is rare.
Some angels and angel-related entities, maybe Fae Court Mothers, some genii loci.
To the best of our knowledge, Mab doesnt have it.

Two entities we know who had it in canon: Shagnasty the skinwalker, who had intellectus regarding torture, and Demonreach, which had it regarding the island.Its not something to routinely worry about.
After all, even Captain Anduriel needs to actively spy on people to gather information, and he's the most powerful Fallen around.
 
I see no reason a person could not just capture the demon with a simple binding, extract its name, banish it, and re-summon it to gain all the information it has. A massive windfall if it in something like a cities camera network. If the are actually good they could pull the same trick as the charm, and take over networks by summoning the same demon under their control. Why not they have the name of a minor tech demon, and stuff to put them into. People in Dresden could definitely benefit from access to the new type of tech demons out of the wicked city.

Why I see it for the original charm the awakened spirit does not have intelligence to remember things if if the charm ends. The charm empowers the 1's and 0s of the processor into an charm powered artificial AI. And should the charm end the gifted mind dissipates and it returns to being 1's and 0's again. Yeah you can ask a random crowbar who has used it, and it might be able to tell one person apart from another. But it could not tell you what the looked like they have no eyes to see, or ears to hear. At most it could tell you what their hands felt like.

If you can torture a name out of that spirit then you have its name and can compel it to answer questions in spite of its loyalty to another. So the question now becomes what is more likely to withstand torture not to give up its name, a demon of the Wicked City which has endured countless torments already or a spirit that woke up last week? And that is not even getting to the fact that is says awoken not born and that Spirit Killing is hard so continuity of consciousness is assumed in setting

As for why more people don't use them, tech bane for mortal wizards for most non-mortals and unfamiliarity with tech and for people who are neither mortal not unfamiliar with tech... you are describing young Wuan Kuei and they do, though their hold on the demons is nowhere near as strong as yours would be as it is mere sorcerous compulsion and not vow made under the divine Aegis of an exaltation.
 
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Lanka Charm: Viridian Legend Exoskeleton

The Hell of Being Skinned Alive: Wind Born Stride

The Hell of Burrowing Maggots Charm: Demonic Primacy of Essence
Next time, we need to seriously consider buying these.
Soak enhancement, dash enhancement, and intimidation enhancement (for supernaturals)

Along with paying down touch of frost, getting awareness and investigation, and getting Appearance back to 3. And buying some form of telekinesis.
 
@DragonParadox if we make a suit with programmable lockable joints (normally unlocked, but which can restrict movement if activated), with a demon in it, and specify a condition "lock the joints if I move farther than X meters, until Y condition is satisfied", would we then be able to use CCC to achieve the condition specified? if so, this could be used as an emergency power up in a fight.

That would work just like locking a car until you get to your destination, just keep in mind that it does introduce extra risks in case of unexpected variables.
 
Without honor without hope needs environmental cold, not just us being cold.

Otherwise good ideas yes.
Hmm, ok. So no combat freeze suit. A bit of a shame. Dresdenverse magic can make "instant glacier" localized environments (take the heat energy from around you, transfer it into a kinetic / light energy or something like that) - something to keep in mind for the future.

i think an idea of wearable conditional prison is still valid as a "desperation super mode".
That would work just like locking a car until you get to your destination, just keep in mind that it does introduce extra risks in case of unexpected variables.
Would it work if we make a suit in a way that we could break it? Ie include an extra way of busting out of the prison by breaking the locks physically?

Anyway, this opens a lot of ideas here. And we could probably use this (or, rather, a smart door idea) as a poor man's teaching charm. "Lock the door until the students learn the lesson" or something like that. What would we be rolling when trying to teach someone something anyway? Intelligence + talent we are trying to teach? Or would it be some social attribute?
 
This is not true.
In Ex2E you dont have to stunt, but you can if you choose. Actions that are automatically successful dont need you to stunt, so , but if its important enough to demand word count, you can stunt.

An action where you are burning Essence to use a Charm? Damn right you can stunt.
IIRC, it was routine to stunt your dodges and parries in combat, let alone the act of investing a spirit in a technological item.

You need around 370g of salt to saturate a liter of water.
A standard US bathtub can hold around 80 gallons of water, which would be around 300 liters.
You would need more than a hundred and ten kilograms of salt to turn a bathtub of water into saturated brine.

Just unlock Sorcery Path Hellfire, and fill the tub half with ice until its deadly cold, or make the water boil.
Alternatively, grab a bottle or two of Clorox and empty it into the bathtub, or pure eucalyptus oil or camphor.
Cheaper, easier to store.

And dont forget to turn on the bathroom fan to get rid of fumes.


Your charms dont hurt you iirc. Old Exalted rule. Nobody pays XP for their intrinsic powers to fuck them over.
Botching Sorcery when summoning something can make your life Interesting, but thats Sorcery, not charmtech.
If the summoning of demons is a function of your charms, you cant botch. You can just fail.


This is a crossover with Dresden Files.
The whole reason Infernal charms have the flavor they do is because of the background cosmology of Creation with vengeful Primordials intentionally

A non-Primordial universe is under no obligation to work exactly the same way.
Especially a cosmology where the supreme authority is not a video game addict.

Molly Carpenter, daughter of the Fist of God, and attendee of Sunday School, is our PC. She is currently living at home.
While a game where Molly is one of the threats that Michael and his colleagues are supposed to hunt might be interesting to some, its not really the sort of game Im here for. And I doubt most other people are here for it either.

Infernal stories have always been about how you choose to play them.
The framing you're pushing for would IC make an Infernal shard as much a danger, if not more, than a Denarian coin, and in the Dresdenverse, the bearer would be treated the same way.


Nah. I took a look at the W20 core sourcebook.
Garou are arseholes.
Cant blame this on ancestors; their society is systematically fucked up, and remains that way into the modern day.


Because this is a Dresden Files crossover.


Alternative explanation:
Every demon/spirit summoned by Molly's charms is arcanely linked to her, and if its container is destroyed, it goes to sleep in her anima until she resummons it, like dead familiars do. When she creates her inner Hell, they move to her pocket dimension.
Because Exalted charmtech, that you paid XP for, are not a danger to the wielder.

Avoids all the questions about spirits getting ambushed and interrogated when desummoned.

They are. Lots of them around.
The hexenwulfen belts contained spirits, the lycanthropes were possessed by spirits of rage, Loup Garou are described as possessed by wolf-demons of some sort, the Loa are oracular spirits, boggles are under the bed, etc.

Bonea is Dresden's second daughter by way of Lash, a spirit of knowledge gestated in Dresden's head after Lash died and born via magical brain surgery in a deliberate echo of how Athena was born by splitting Zeus' head.
Yes, mpreg is canon in the Dresdenverse. :V

Intellectus is rare.
Some angels and angel-related entities, maybe Fae Court Mothers, some genii loci.
To the best of our knowledge, Mab doesnt have it.

Two entities we know who had it in canon: Shagnasty the skinwalker, who had intellectus regarding torture, and Demonreach, which had it regarding the island.Its not something to routinely worry about.
After all, even Captain Anduriel needs to actively spy on people to gather information, and he's the most powerful Fallen around.
its rare its not as rare as you think though uh I mean anduriels could be a specific form of intellectus if you think about it just like how the skinwalker knew how to best torture someone even if they don't really get the context of why and its only for those their focusing on its still intellectus. Mab may have it she told dresden she could find his corpse because it was in darkness so she may have intellectus involving that of some kind. Like not all intellectus come out the same. word of harry angels have it, one of odins had it for the honored dead, its definitely safe to assume beings throughout the nevernever have it at least when it comes to certain mantles. Is it common no also your responding to a comment which I later said wasn't really an argument for anything it was me informing the exceptions even if their very very rare.
 
Alternative explanation:
Every demon/spirit summoned by Molly's charms is arcanely linked to her, and if its container is destroyed, it goes to sleep in her anima until she resummons it, like dead familiars do. When she creates her inner Hell, they move to her pocket dimension.
Because Exalted charmtech, that you paid XP for, are not a danger to the wielder.

Avoids all the questions about spirits getting ambushed and interrogated when desummoned.

You know this does make my life easier than pages and pages of explanations, so sure, you summon it you keep it in the case of the very least of Wicked City Spirits summoned for Hollow Mind Possession. The only way to er... free them would be to kill Molly at this point I assume any secrets they might hold would be moot.
 
Hmm, ok. So no combat freeze suit. A bit of a shame. Dresdenverse magic can make "instant glacier" localized environments (take the heat energy from around you, transfer it into a kinetic / light energy or something like that) - something to keep in mind for the future.

i think an idea of wearable conditional prison is still valid as a "desperation super mode".

Would it work if we make a suit in a way that we could break it? Ie include an extra way of busting out of the prison by breaking the locks physically?

Anyway, this opens a lot of ideas here. And we could probably use this (or, rather, a smart door idea) as a poor man's teaching charm. "Lock the door until the students learn the lesson" or something like that. What would we be rolling when trying to teach someone something anyway? Intelligence + talent we are trying to teach? Or would it be some social attribute?

As long as it is 'break' and not 'I have a key'. It has to be prison conceptually so whatever means you have in mind should force you to do significant damage to the suit and take an actual roll to manage.
 
You know this does make my life easier than pages and pages of explanations, so sure, you summon it you keep it in the case of the very least of Wicked City Spirits summoned for Hollow Mind Possession. The only way to er... free them would be to kill Molly at this point I assume any secrets they might hold would be moot.
thank god no more argument hurrah
 
You would need more than a hundred and ten kilograms of salt to turn a bathtub of water into saturated brine.
I don't see an issue with this?

Salt is super cheap, easy to store safely, doesn't release horrible fumes that could melt our siblings' lungs, and isn't regulated even slightly.

I'm not opposed to using bleach, muriatic acid, or any other relatively easily available household chemicals, but from a safety standpoint given our living situation, I think we will have the least trouble convincing our parents to let us keep a garden tub out in the garage or storage shed filled with super saturated salt water.
 
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Hmm, ok. So no combat freeze suit. A bit of a shame. Dresdenverse magic can make "instant glacier" localized environments (take the heat energy from around you, transfer it into a kinetic / light energy or something like that) - something to keep in mind for the future.
Combat blizzard :V Like winter has.
 
We prolly could create a mobile cold AoE with ExWoD crafting, tbh. IDK if it is going to be particularly strong, but it is not an outrageous effect by itself.

Kakuri custom charm for that also might work, but custom charms are not available, and IDK when they are going to be available.
 
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I remember early on we picked an anti winter kind of thing how resistant are we too cold and such again? Like can we just walk fine in a supernatural blizzard?
 
I remember early on we picked an anti winter kind of thing how resistant are we too cold and such again? Like can we just walk fine in a supernatural blizzard?
We're immune to cold Environmental Hazards, even supernatural ones, and we get some more dice to soak direct attacks made via cold, like a frost beam or ripping heat out, if I remember correctly.
 
I remember early on we picked an anti winter kind of thing how resistant are we too cold and such again? Like can we just walk fine in a supernatural blizzard?
We could swim in arctic ocean, and take nice long leisurely walks at near absolute zero temperatures.

As long as it is not some sort of a directed magical attack, at least. Environmental hazards and directed attacks are mechanically distinct.
 
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