Since most people seem to have voted with the intent of baseline I think it would be best to stick to that and then if people want to change it later it can be a vote. This vote is already pretty dense and I worry that doing so now would be distracting, but at the same time I do not want to take away player control of the character.
Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)
- Thread starter DragonParadox
- Start date
- Crossover Fantasy
Since most people seem to have voted with the intent of baseline I think it would be best to stick to that and then if people want to change it later it can be a vote. This vote is already pretty dense and I worry that doing so now would be distracting, but at the same time I do not want to take away player control of the character.
- Location
- Brazil
That may have been your intention, but the way I read your writing it pass a feel of the impact of the release to be quite large. And knowing the paranoia and shyness of others, I can already imagine many pages where we discuss whether or not to just make the clone because of the worst possibilities.
I like the part where there's a mecanic to go back to our hell, but I like the clones because they're kind of disposable, so I really don't like that part.
Sorry but this is totally wrong, everyone throughout the vote wants a clone charm (whether now or later) but no one is satisfied with the base one, that's why there are 3-4 different versions floating around already.
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Fair, then we can have a vote on which one next update.
Which, by the way, is one of the reasons I made it so that the clones are the ones that initiate the return to their maker (and removed the presence range) in the personal version I posted, instead of Molly being the one to do it.
I'm pretty sure none of us want the base version specifically, in fact, most of us would probably be A-Ok with another version, as it would ease the tension in the thread around this charm.
They're disposable to a stereotype infernal, but we've been warned multiple times that it sucks for them when they bite it. I don't think it's IC for Molly to treat them this way.
In any case, none of the actual presented uses people have talked about included combat duty, the risk is in them being attacked while doing something like attend class for us.
I'm not sure why there'd be pages of debate either, maybe I need to change the phrasing. Functionally what it says is that if you get stabbed in the soul you need to sit and heal for about the same amount of time it takes for CSR to repair one point of lethal damage. It just costs essence, because you're reconjuring the clone too.
If you're going to send your manifest soul into battle that should mean something, win or lose.
- Location
- Brazil
I like this much more.
The first of all acts was to name. Each titan tearing themselves from the roiling chaos and defining themselves against it. A fact that no debasement could ever wholly take from them.
Echoing that act their heirs turn their hands on their own souls; naming each part according to their own design, thereby becoming in small part like those spoke themselves into being.
System:
The infernal spends 5 essence and meditates for at least one scene, turning inwards to look at their own soul. Once there, she must make a willpower roll to search her own memories for something that defines her.
It can be nearly anything; important memories, strong beliefs, trauma, what matters is that it's true and personal to the exalt. This can be very unpleasant, and lower successes should result in facing less comfortable things.
Whatever she finds, the infernal then names and begins the process of shaping into a new facet of her soul. She may have no more than her essence rating of these, and if one is destroyed the element of her soul it embodies is numbed in whatever manner is appropriate until she repeats this ritual at +1 DC to find and reform it.
If the infernal dies instead her essence manifests as screaming wind and flees to the nearest clone, killing it in her place. This wounds the infernal's spirit, dropping her one essence level that may not be regained by any means before she reforms the facet she replaced.
Once named facets may be embodied or dispelled with a thought, supposing they aren't currently destroyed and are in the infernal's presence, but she must pay 1 mote to copy over any memories directly.
As they are subordinate faces of the infernal's soul she may not use her charms through them to directly affect the world. However, as they are still part of her they may still affect themselves.
In general this means abilities that solely impact the infernal and do not rely on active interaction. The infernal may not use excellency through a clone any more than she may fire a shotgun with her nose, but can defend any part of her 'face' with equal strength. When doing so they share the infernal's essence pool.
By default the clones form as an approximation of the infernal as a mortal, perfectly loyal to its creator, fully aware of what it is, and in possession of her memories. However, for the same resource investment as making one outright she may invest them with the appropriate number of arcana features.
If the infernal has a hell they may spend one arcana feature point to provide an emanation style return function. By spending one willpower they may vanish in a burst of flaying wind to return to her hell. This counts as a clone death for the purposes of the charm, save for that it does not numb the associated elements of the infernal's soul as the facet slides smoothly back into place.
Echoing that act their heirs turn their hands on their own souls; naming each part according to their own design, thereby becoming in small part like those spoke themselves into being.
System:
The infernal spends 5 essence and meditates for at least one scene, turning inwards to look at their own soul. Once there, she must make a willpower roll to search her own memories for something that defines her.
It can be nearly anything; important memories, strong beliefs, trauma, what matters is that it's true and personal to the exalt. This can be very unpleasant, and lower successes should result in facing less comfortable things.
Whatever she finds, the infernal then names and begins the process of shaping into a new facet of her soul. She may have no more than her essence rating of these, and if one is destroyed the element of her soul it embodies is numbed in whatever manner is appropriate until she repeats this ritual at +1 DC to find and reform it.
If the infernal dies instead her essence manifests as screaming wind and flees to the nearest clone, killing it in her place. This wounds the infernal's spirit, dropping her one essence level that may not be regained by any means before she reforms the facet she replaced.
Once named facets may be embodied or dispelled with a thought, supposing they aren't currently destroyed and are in the infernal's presence, but she must pay 1 mote to copy over any memories directly.
As they are subordinate faces of the infernal's soul she may not use her charms through them to directly affect the world. However, as they are still part of her they may still affect themselves.
In general this means abilities that solely impact the infernal and do not rely on active interaction. The infernal may not use excellency through a clone any more than she may fire a shotgun with her nose, but can defend any part of her 'face' with equal strength. When doing so they share the infernal's essence pool.
By default the clones form as an approximation of the infernal as a mortal, perfectly loyal to its creator, fully aware of what it is, and in possession of her memories. However, for the same resource investment as making one outright she may invest them with the appropriate number of arcana features.
If the infernal has a hell they may spend one arcana feature point to provide an emanation style return function. By spending one willpower they may vanish in a burst of flaying wind to return to her hell. This counts as a clone death for the purposes of the charm, save for that it does not numb the associated elements of the infernal's soul as the facet slides smoothly back into place.
Fiddled with the DC on the reformation and the return home function aftermath clause to make more sense.
I still maintain that if you're going to send your soul into battle that should mean something and that temporary easy to fix numbness of whatever they represent is a very mild implementation of that. Fortunately, it shouldn't come up much because we're not fighting in the clone wars.
Yzarc
The Spark of Madness
Here is a more Adorjan version of it.
Splintered Gale Incarnation
System: The Character can touch the body of any physical, thinking being they have personally killed and spends a Willpower. This transforms the corpse into their Clone. The Clone does not need to look like the Character and can look as the corpse did when it was alive and the Character is aware of all intimacies and the Archetype of the dead person but not memories or anything specific.
The Clones are mundane in most aspects, except that they are treated as if they are immune to all forms of mind control and possession except that of the Infernal. If the corpse had any special power when they were alive, then the Clone gains that power.
The Character can have up to Essence rating in clones alive and active at once and is able to mentally communicate with their clones regardless of distance or even in between realms. By touching the clone, the Character can absorb the clone, healing all their wounds and completely restore themselves and gain all of the memories of the clone. If absorbed, the Corpse is destroyed and the Character does not gain any special ability that the Clone had.
If the Infernal should ever die they can resurrect themselves Essence "slot" times into the nearest clone of their choice. This destroys the clone and Infernal loses a "slot" for a year and a day. Any special power that the clone had is lost.
System: The Character can touch the body of any physical, thinking being they have personally killed and spends a Willpower. This transforms the corpse into their Clone. The Clone does not need to look like the Character and can look as the corpse did when it was alive and the Character is aware of all intimacies and the Archetype of the dead person but not memories or anything specific.
The Clones are mundane in most aspects, except that they are treated as if they are immune to all forms of mind control and possession except that of the Infernal. If the corpse had any special power when they were alive, then the Clone gains that power.
The Character can have up to Essence rating in clones alive and active at once and is able to mentally communicate with their clones regardless of distance or even in between realms. By touching the clone, the Character can absorb the clone, healing all their wounds and completely restore themselves and gain all of the memories of the clone. If absorbed, the Corpse is destroyed and the Character does not gain any special ability that the Clone had.
If the Infernal should ever die they can resurrect themselves Essence "slot" times into the nearest clone of their choice. This destroys the clone and Infernal loses a "slot" for a year and a day. Any special power that the clone had is lost.
Since it appears we've started to argue semantics, all parties are advised to chill out for a bit.
Man I think you're about a couple hours too late for that but it doesn't really matter at this point it is what it is.
Ivar
Dark Reaper
- Location
- Russia Moscow
I personally don't have any particular problems, except that you're adding another weakness to the clones. I really hope to make the clones something without the ability to hit Molly through them. You seem to make the main disadvantage the possibility of damaging it through killing clones. I personally would rather spend time crafting clone bodies than this. And this can also be used as a metaphysical link to drive 1000 agrav into molly from the other side of the world. That's not too good either.
BUT I like the idea of spending extra Essence to improve clones. Granted, I think it's a little too simple. But still good. Honestly, we will actually need mechanics for crafting clones and their default stats then.
I also think that the specific language is not clear everywhere. It's not that I didn't have these problems. Just noticing
And a good version of recaling back the clones, although this can be dangerous if they are stunned before they can react. I think we need something to allow molly to react instead of stunned clones.
I also like that your clones are the mental/spiritual aspects of Molly. This is also quite good.
Hmm, good point. Perhaps I should add something like this to my version.
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Given the recent developments of Dragon's telling that votes for SGI would allows us to choose one of the homebrew version instead, I think we should resee our priorities:
Do we want the ressource generator online? A thing that is always good to do as fast as possible.
Or do we want a new stealth charm? One that is neither in line with our short term goals (we have no infiltration planned at all) nor our playstyle (we have been developing towards being good at combat and diplomacy, not infiltration).
Without the risks of SGI in the balance, I do think it is important to point that out.
Edit:
Or, you know, we could split the difference and take both, that is a thing too.
I am on phone and unable to do a plan right now, but if someone wants to do it….
Do we want the ressource generator online? A thing that is always good to do as fast as possible.
Or do we want a new stealth charm? One that is neither in line with our short term goals (we have no infiltration planned at all) nor our playstyle (we have been developing towards being good at combat and diplomacy, not infiltration).
Without the risks of SGI in the balance, I do think it is important to point that out.
Edit:
Or, you know, we could split the difference and take both, that is a thing too.
I am on phone and unable to do a plan right now, but if someone wants to do it….
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Goldfish
Friendly Spider-Fish Abomination
- Location
- Formerly of the Far Realm
Or now that the vote has been settled after being open for almost 48 hours, the folks who want to come up with an alternate version of SGI can wait until our next XP expenditure and use the intervening time between now and then to finalize the particulars of the new Charm.
I categorically refuse to settle on a *we'll do it next time, promise*.
That never works, between Xp constraints, new priorities, and changing voters, you cannot believe that something like that will work.
At the end of the day, one charm is better now, the other is not, and the second is BMI, hands down, we do not play in a way that benefit from it, we do not intend to do things that will benefit from it currently and we did perfectly well at Vegas without it.
That never works, between Xp constraints, new priorities, and changing voters, you cannot believe that something like that will work.
At the end of the day, one charm is better now, the other is not, and the second is BMI, hands down, we do not play in a way that benefit from it, we do not intend to do things that will benefit from it currently and we did perfectly well at Vegas without it.
There were plenty other very usable charms (for example, see other Yog's plans) that could have been used by Molly in the current situation, but people voted for SGI and IDU, so other participants had to choose plan with BMI to, at least, spend some XP on very much needed stats.
Well, as far as I understand the rules of the quest, it is the matter of popular vote, and not the matter of the singular opinion.
Goldfish
Friendly Spider-Fish Abomination
- Location
- Formerly of the Far Realm
It's difficult to play in a way that favors BMI when you don't actually have the BMI Charm. We don't have a vote for what we will do and an "oh well, here's what we would have done if we had BMI" vote each time a situation comes up where it would have been useful.
And using Vegas as an example in your argument is not the best option, IMO. If we had BMI before we stepped foot in Nevada, the arc would have probably been 30 chapters shorter and the western half of the USA would have been much less likely to go the way of Fallout New Vegas.
Ivar
Dark Reaper
- Location
- Russia Moscow
I don't think I will change my vote, because there is no consensus on clones yet. Instead, I think we need to develop a system for improving clones. Even if in the end there will be charm without it, I consider this an important part. First of all, modularity relative to other craft charms. In the sense that crafting clones will be better with them. In the case of purely mental actions, we can add purely mental rolls and chars to the crafting.
I like the idea of spending extra essence on a clone to give it magical properties. But this seems too simple. Perhaps a roll needs to be added and Molly needs to know the properties that it adds to the clones. And limit the properties to something quite simple, maybe make a price limit in the experience for features purchased by essence.
Then we integrate sorcery and shen arts, perhaps they can be used to enchant clone bodies or add functions in other ways, but only weak functions. And finally we're adding charms like constructive convergence of princeples, which massively improve clones, but for bigger things works like Exalt Craft.
I like the idea of spending extra essence on a clone to give it magical properties. But this seems too simple. Perhaps a roll needs to be added and Molly needs to know the properties that it adds to the clones. And limit the properties to something quite simple, maybe make a price limit in the experience for features purchased by essence.
Then we integrate sorcery and shen arts, perhaps they can be used to enchant clone bodies or add functions in other ways, but only weak functions. And finally we're adding charms like constructive convergence of princeples, which massively improve clones, but for bigger things works like Exalt Craft.
Ivar
Dark Reaper
- Location
- Russia Moscow
Honestly I think clones have another option to discuss besides mechanics. Namely flavor. I think the original one doesn't suit Molly. Because she doesn't have such a strong association with wind now as she does with water or fire. So I replaced wind with flame in my version.
As for why in my version clone bodies are created...Well, Molly specializes in crafting hard. This is her second or third specialty almost after the battle. One of her mythical feats is creating a body for Lash. Her first faithful servants are cyber-devils who seize equipment and make it possessed. In my opinion, a combination of these themes for clones would be ideal.
Why subsouls? Well, because this is the easiest way to justify why they receive the benefit of Molly's charms and can be withdrawn.
The only thing I lack is knowledge about the Five Courts to make the flavor more related to them, and here I am hoping for the @Yog version.
As for why in my version clone bodies are created...Well, Molly specializes in crafting hard. This is her second or third specialty almost after the battle. One of her mythical feats is creating a body for Lash. Her first faithful servants are cyber-devils who seize equipment and make it possessed. In my opinion, a combination of these themes for clones would be ideal.
Why subsouls? Well, because this is the easiest way to justify why they receive the benefit of Molly's charms and can be withdrawn.
The only thing I lack is knowledge about the Five Courts to make the flavor more related to them, and here I am hoping for the @Yog version.
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BoredMan
Maintaining the Agenda is our top priority
It worked with the crafting charm when we decided to get the anti shaping charm first lol.
Yzarc
The Spark of Madness
It DID'NT work for, ironically enough, inner Devils, which I and others were pushing for for two sending turns.
So, "Let's buy it next time" really is not a valid argument.
BoredMan
Maintaining the Agenda is our top priority
With the crafting and anti shaping charm people were arguing over it for awhile and it was clear that if it wasn't bought now it'd be bought the following turn. Then it was.
I don't remember the same situation happening with Inner Devils was the thread ever so evenly split over it as the deciding factor for a charm vote?
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OK it seems pretty clear, vote closed.