Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

I won't be able to work more on the charm right now, I should already be sleeping.

Creating bodies automatically is an obvious sacrifice IMHO. We can't create so many clones that replacing or creating their bodies would be a problem. And creating bodies for them and giving them to possess is incredibly thematic for Molly with her cyberdevils and creating bodies for Lush as part of her mythos.

I agree that if the DP allows we can make the clones a little stronger by crafting their bodies. This would be nice, but not necessary.

I agree that we can remove the text about childbirth and maybe make clones Essence Rating -1.

The signature needs to be reworked or removed, I agree.

I believe that reincarnation is too valuable to sacrifice. And additional training may be too strong with the current mechanics.

Edit What else can we add is permanent connected communication (including just implants with radio and telephone in their head)

Crafting the body is an idea, sure.

We have other options for the 1-up, and the goal is to narrow the charm to make it better on what we want it for, which is the training.

1) Have the clones and the original share the essence pool
2) Probably, for balance reasons, make it so only the original can restore essence in any way

Good ideas.

3) Keep the weird self-impregnation, as that's the core of weird infernal toolset.

If it was originally from the hell coming from the primordial that loves giving you babies, I would agree, but this is not the correct one, this is the Adorjan one, so it's completely out of theme.


And Molly is not in theme with this either, not to mention that the site wouldn't allow using it anyway, so may as well remove it wholesale.

Quickly revised version:

The infernal shows her nature as a queen so great, her aspects walk by themselves.
System: The infernal spends five essence, and split it into a new body. She walks in two directions at once, creating a clone of herself. This clone is a perfect copy of the infernal and comes to the world naked, perfectly loyal to its creator, precisely aware of what it is, and in possession of the same memories and personality as the infernal. It has the same traits as the infernal, share the essence pool of the infernal but cannot regenerate any essence, and access to (don't know, 3?) active charms from the Infernal repertoire as well as all her passives charms. The infernal can have up to Essence minus one clone active at once. By spending one essence, the clone can spin itself out of existence, returning its experiences and memories to the infernal. If the Infernal wishes, she can recreate specific absorbed clones when using this charm.
 
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You've specifically used "while in RVD state" as an example of usage. I was responding to that. In that state, ATP is fully equivalent, arguable better than BMI. If BMI even can be used for disguising RVD transport, since by transforming into an RVD state we are breaking the disguise.
Sorry for the confusion.

But no, I disagree.
ATP will still leave traces of your passage. We saw this in Vegas, when those two Reds showed up with the captive Fae bus to take samples in Henderson even after we entered ATP and they couldnt see us.

BMI, however, wont have that problem.


You and I have very different experience with people. Yes, without BMI initial introductions are harder, but with BMI the following interactions would be much, much harder still, due to sense of completely justified paranoia and betrayal.
Maybe, but I dont think so.
There is a difference in how people react to something shocking or scary out of the blue, and when they are eased into it by a persuasive voice. Thats like the basis of a lot of advertising.

Limited attention span. Molly is "loud", it's easy to trace her movements, meaning they don't need to actually constantly watch her. Meaning that some things can slip through.
I dont agree.
Like I've pointed out, the vast majority of powerful supernaturals appear to be able to move around without announcing themselves. Odin, Mab, Ferrovax, Nicodemus, the Leanansidhe, Eldest Gruff, Ethniu, even He Who Walks Behind....

Even the literal greater akuma and posse that came to Chicago wasnt obvious to us or Dresden, even after they started murdering people.
Thats the norm.

Being able to find Molly easily is an unexpected benefit, not something they rely on.


Again she's a representative of an entire nation/world and they know where she lives. It's crazy to think she wouldn't be monitored from a distance with electronic surveillance at least.
The White King has had his HQ in Chicago for decades at least, and they dont have anyone here either.

The SCD-LoC is a covert agency with a wide remit and limited resources.
  • And there is a need to avoid offense,
  • To not risking a masquerade breach when someone asks why you are surveilling a teenager, or Snowdens you
  • Or pissing off someone supernatural who reacts.....precipitately.

Dresden has been regional commander for the White Council's military for more than a year.
He has saved Chicago the third biggest city in the US from going up in a tornado of death. He prevented a major pandemic breaking out the year before that. He killed the previous Summer Lady.

The LoC doesnt have anyone in the city fulltime, and only recruited Murphy as a stringer recently.
 
The White King has had his HQ in Chicago for decades at least, and they dont have anyone here either.

The SCD-LoC is a covert agency with a wide remit and limited resources.
I'm rather sure multiple parts of the supernaturally aware branches of Gov will be made aware of Molly on some level not just the LoC. How do you know they don't keep an eye on the White King or Dresden?
 
Depends, who gets hit with the fortune effect? If Molly is the kind of actor to do that just finding that out could be valuable. Also as far as the tech goes they can reasonably assume there are some connectivity issues using literally alien tech as part of one's on line protection. I am not saying they are going to do it, just that it seems to Molly considerably more likely than agents in the bushes outside the Carpenter family home.
Essentially the same shit as jammers targeted at equipment.
The way that the US govt's security would treat the equipment of eavesdroppers.

That said, I do agree that if there've been no agents in bushes outside the Carpenter home for the last twenty years that Michael has carried a Sword?
They are unlikely to start now.
 
As far as I know, Mab and others on her level do not go around pretending to be mortals. Angels do, but they are a special case.
Summer Knight chapter 2
In the ruins of my office stood a woman with the kind of beauty that makes men murder friends and start wars.
She stood by my desk with her arms folded, facing the door, hips cocked to one side, her expression skeptical. She had white hair. Not white-blond, not platinum. White as snow, white as the finest marble, bound up like a captured cloud to bare the lines of her slender throat. I don't know how her skin managed to look pale beside that hair, but it did. Her lips were the color of frozen mulberries, almost shocking in a smooth and lovely face, and her oblique eyes were a deep green that tinted to blue when she tilted her head and looked me over. She wasn't old. Wasn't young. Wasn't anything but stunning.
I tried to keep my jaw from hitting the floor and forced my brain to start doing something by taking stock of her wardrobe. She wore a woman's suit of charcoal grey, the cut immaculate. The skirt showed exactly enough leg to make it hard not to look, and her dark pumps had heels just high enough to give you ideas. She wore a bone-white V-neck beneath her jacket, the neckline dipping just low enough to make me want to be watching if she took a deep breath. Opals set in silver flashed on her ears, at her throat, glittering through an array of colors I wouldn't have expected from opals—too many scarlets and violets and deep blues. Her nails had somehow been lacquered in the same opalescence.
I caught the scent of her perfume, something wild and rich, heavy and sweet, like orchids. My heart sped up, and the testosterone-oriented part of my brain wished that I'd been able to bathe. Or shave. Or at least that I hadn't worn sweatpants.
Her mouth quirked into a smile, and she arched one pale brow, saying nothing, letting me gawk.
One thing was certain—no woman like that would have anything less than money. Lots of money. Money I could use to pay the rent, buy groceries, maybe even splurge a little and get a wheelbarrow to help with cleaning my apartment. I only hesitated for a heartbeat, wondering if it was proper for a full-fledged wizard of the White Council to be that interested in cash. I made up my mind fast.

Phenomenal cosmic powers be damned. I have a lease.
"Uh, Ms. Sommerset, I presume," I managed finally. No one can do suave like me. If I was careful, I should be able to trip over something and complete the image. "I'm Harry Dresden."
"I believe you are late," she replied. Sommerset had a voice like her outfit—rich, suggestive, cultured. Her English had an accent I couldn't place. Maybe European. Definitely interesting. "Your assistant informed me when to arrive. I don't like to be kept waiting, so I let myself in." She glanced at my desk, then back at me. "I almost wish I hadn't."
"Yeah. I didn't hear you were coming until, uh …" I looked around at my office, dismayed, and shut the door behind me. "I know this looks pretty unprofessional."
"Quite correct."
I moved to one of the chairs I keep for clients, facing my desk, and hurriedly cleared it off. "Please, sit down. Would you like a cup of coffee or anything?"
"Sounds less than sanitary. Why should I take the risk?" She sat, her back straight, on the edge of the chair, following me with her eyes as I walked around the desk. They were a cool, noticeable weight on me as I moved, and I sat down at my desk, frowning.
"Are you the kind who takes chances?"
"I like to hedge my bets," she murmured. "You, for example, Mister Dresden. I have come here today to decide whether or not I shall gamble a great deal upon your abilities." She paused and then added, "Thus far, you have made less than a sterling impression."
I rested my elbows on my desk and steepled my fingers. "Yeah. I know that all this probably makes me look like—"
"A desperate man?" she suggested. "Someone who is clearly obsessed with other matters." She nodded toward the stacks of envelopes on my desk. "One who is shortly to lose his place of business if he does not pay his debts. I think you need the work." She began to rise. "And if you lack the ability to take care of such minor matters, I doubt you will be of any use to me."
"Wait," I said, rising. "Please. At least let me hear you out. If it turns out that I think I can help you—"
She lifted her chin and interrupted me effortlessly. "But that isn't the question, is it?" she asked. "The question is whether or not I think you can help me. You have shown me nothing to make me think that you could." She paused, sitting back down again. "And yet …"
I sat back down across from her. "Yet?"
"I have heard things, Mister Dresden, about people with your abilities. About the ability to look into their eyes."
I tilted my head. "I wouldn't call it an ability. It just happens."
"Yet you are able to see within them? You call it a soulgaze, do you not?"
I nodded warily and started adding together lots of small bits and pieces. "Yes."
"Revealing their true nature? Seeing the truth about the person upon whom you look?"
"And they see me back. Yes."
She smiled, cool and lovely. "Then let us look upon one another, Mister Dresden, you and I. Then I will know if you can be of any use to me. Surely it will cost me nothing."
"I wouldn't be so sure. It's the sort of thing that stays with you." Like an appendectomy scar, or baldness. When you look on someone's soul, you don't forget it. Not ever. I didn't like the direction this was going. "I don't think it would be a good idea."
"But why not?" she pressed. "It won't take long, will it, Mister Dresden?"
"That's really not the issue."
Her mouth firmed into a line. "I see. Then, if you will excuse me—"
This time I interrupted her. "Ms. Sommerset, I think you may have made a mistake in your estimations."
Her eyes glittered, anger showing for a moment, cool and far away. "Oh?"
I nodded. I opened the drawer to my desk and took out a pad of paper. "Yeah. I've had a rough time of things lately."
"You can't possibly know how little that matters to me."
I drew out a pen, took off the lid, and set it down beside the pad. "Uh-huh. Then you come in here. Rich, gorgeous—kind of too good to be true."
"And?" she inquired.
"Too good to be true," I repeated. I drew the.44-caliber revolver from the desk drawer, leveled it at her, and thumbed back the hammer. "Call me crazy, but lately I've been thinking that if something's too good to be true, then it probably isn't. Put your hands on the desk, please."

Her eyebrows arched. Those gorgeous eyes widened enough to show the whites all the way around them. She moved her hands, swallowing as she did, and laid her palms on the desk. "What do you think you are doing?" she demanded.
"I'm testing a theory," I said. I kept the gun and my eyes on her and opened another drawer. "See, lately, I've been getting nasty visitors. So it's made me do some thinking about what kind of trouble to expect. And I think I've got you pegged."
"I don't know what you are talking about, Mister Dresden, but I am certain—"
"Save it." I rummaged in a drawer and found what I needed. A moment later I lifted a plain old nail of simple metal out of the drawer and put it on the desk.
"What's that?" she all but whispered.
"Litmus test," I said.
Then I flicked the nail gently with one finger, and sent it rolling across the surface of my desk and toward her perfectly manicured hands.
She didn't move until a split second before the nail touched her—but then she did, a blur of motion that took her two long strides back from my desk and knocked over the chair she'd been sitting on. The nail rolled off the edge of the desk and fell to the floor with a clink.
"Iron," I said. "Cold iron. Faeries don't like it."
The expression drained from her face. One moment, there had been arrogant conceit, haughty superiority, blithe confidence. But that simply vanished, leaving her features cold and lovely and remote and empty of all emotion, of anything recognizably human
.

"The bargain with my godmother has months yet to go," I said. "A year and a day, she had to leave me alone. That was the deal. If she's trying to weasel out of it, I'm going to be upset."
She regarded me in that empty silence for long moments more. It was unsettling to see a face so lovely look so wholly alien, as though something lurked behind those features that had little in common with me and did not care to make the effort to understand. That blank mask made my throat tighten, and I had to work not to let the gun in my hand shake. But then she did something that made her look even more alien, more frightening.
She smiled. A slow smile, cruel as a barbed knife. When she spoke, her voice sounded just as beautiful as it had before. But it was empty, quiet, haunting. She spoke, and it made me want to lean closer to her to hear her more clearly. "Clever," she murmured. "Yes. Not too distracted to think. Just what I need."
A cold shiver danced down my spine. "I don't want any trouble," I said. "Just go, and we can both pretend nothing happened."
"But it has," she murmured. Just the sound of her voice made the room feel colder. "You have seen through this veil. Proven your worth. How did you do it?"
"Static on the doorknob," I said. "It should have been locked. You shouldn't have been able to get in here, so you must have gone through it. And you danced around my questions rather than simply answering them."
Still smiling, she nodded. "Go on."
"You don't have a purse. Not many women go out in a three-thousand-dollar suit and no purse."
"Mmmm," she said. "Yes. You'll do perfectly, Mister Dresden."
"I don't know what you're talking about," I said. "I'm having nothing more to do with faeries."
"I don't like being called that, Mister Dresden."
"You'll get over it. Get out of my office."
"You should know, Mister Dresden, that my kind, from great to small, are bound to speak the truth."
"That hasn't slowed your ability to deceive."
Her eyes glittered, and I saw her pupils change, slipping from round mortal orbs to slow feline lengths. Cat-eyed, she regarded me, unblinking. "Yet have I spoken. I plan to gamble. And I will gamble upon you."
"Uh. What?"
"I require your service. Something precious has been stolen. I wish you to recover it."
"Let me get this straight," I said. "You want me to recover stolen goods for you?"
"Not for me," she murmured. "For the rightful owners. I wish you to discover and catch the thief and to vindicate me."
"Do it yourself," I said.
"In this matter I cannot act wholly alone," she murmured. "That is why I have chosen you to be my emissary. My agent."
I laughed at her. That made something else come into those perfect, pale features—anger. Anger, cold and terrible, flashed in her eyes and all but froze the laugh in my throat. "I don't think so," I said. "I'm not making any more bargains with your folk. I don't even know who you are."
"Dear child," she murmured, a slow edge to her voice. "The bargain has already been made. You gave your life, your fortune, your future, in exchange for power."
"Yeah. With my godmother. And that's still being contested."
"No longer," she said. "Even in this world of mortals, the concept of debt passes from one hand to the next. Selling mortgages, yes?"
My belly went cold. "What are you saying?"
Her teeth showed, sharp and white. It wasn't a smile. "Your mortgage, mortal child, has been sold. I have purchased it. You are mine. And you will assist me in this matter."
I set the gun down on my desk and opened the top drawer. I took out my letter opener, one of the standard machined jobs with a heavy, flat blade and a screw-grip handle. "You're wrong," I said, and the denial in my voice sounded patently obvious, even to me. "My godmother would never do that. For all I know, you're trying to trick me."
She smiled, watching me, her eyes bright. "Then by all means, let me reassure you of the truth."
My left palm slammed down onto the table. I watched, startled, as I gripped the letter opener in my right hand, slasher-movie style. In a panic, I tried to hold back my hand, to drop the opener, but my arms were running on automatic, like they were someone else's.
"Wait!" I shouted.
She regarded me, cold and distant and interested.
I slammed the letter opener down onto the back of my own hand, hard. My desk is a cheap one. The steel bit cleanly through the meat between my thumb and forefinger and sank into the desk, pinning me there. Pain washed up my arm even as blood started oozing out of the wound. I tried to fight it down, but I was panicked, in no condition to exert a lot of control. A whimper slipped out of me. I tried to pull the steel away, to get it out of my hand, but my arm simply twisted, wrenching the letter opener counterclockwise.
The pain flattened me. I wasn't even able to get enough breath to scream.
The woman, the faerie, reached down and took my fingers away from the letter opener. She withdrew it with a sharp, decisive gesture and laid it flat on the desk, my blood gleaming all over it. "Wizard, you know as well as I. Were you not bound to me, I would have no such power over you."
At that moment, most of what I knew was that my hand hurt, but some dim part of me realized she was telling the truth. Faeries don't just get to ride in and play puppet master. You have to let them in. I'd let my godmother, Lea, in years before, when I was younger, dumber. I'd given her the slip last year, forced an abeyance of her claim that should have protected me for a year and a day.
But now she'd passed the reins to someone else. Someone who hadn't been in on the second bargain.
I looked up at her, pain and sudden anger making my voice into a low, harsh growl. "Who are you?"
The woman ran an opalescent fingernail through the blood on my desk. She lifted it to her lips and idly touched it to her tongue. She smiled, slower, more sensual, and every bit as alien. "I have many names," she murmured. "But you may call me Mab. Queen of Air and Darkness. Monarch of the Winter Court of the Sidhe."
Proven Guilty chapter 39
Thomas nodded and we both hurried toward the stairs. I glanced back over my shoulder, once. The fountain was already building itself up again, freezing water to ice. A thin sheet of it already covered my godmother. I shuddered and looked away, directly at the delirious Lloyd Slate. My footsteps quickened even more.
And then, just as I was leaving, only for an instant, I thought I saw one more thing. The triangle of statues of Sidhe noblewomen caught a stray beam of moonlight, while thin clouds made it jump and shift. In that uncertain light, I saw one of the statues move. It turned its head toward me as I left, and the white marble of its eyes was suddenly suffused with emerald green the same color as Mab's eyes.
Not just the same color.
Mab's eyes.
The statue winked at me.

The sounds of the approaching fae grew even louder, reminding me that I had no time to investigate. So I shivered and hurried down the stairs beside Thomas, leaving the parapet and its prisoners and-perhaps-its mistress behind me. I had to focus on getting us back to Lily's rift in one piece, so I forced all such questions from my mind for the time being.
The four of us were slogging through snow up to my knees a few moments later, while I spent the last reserves of power I'd taken from Lily's butterfly to keep us from going into hypothermia.
I took the lead and ran for the rift as a nightmarish symphony of wails and horns and howls closed in all around us.

The entirety of the plot of Something Borrowed, where Jenny Greenteeth, Maeve's handmaiden, kidnapped, imprisoned and impersonated Georgia at her wedding with Billy.
 
I'm rather sure multiple parts of the supernaturally aware branches of Gov will be made aware of Molly on some level not just the LoC. How do you know they don't keep an eye on the White King or Dresden?
Made aware? Possibly. Maybe probably, depending on their need to know and perceived reliability.
Daedalus probably isnt on that list. Thats very much a different matter from having active surveillance ongoing of Molly in Chicago, any more than they would of Harrowmont in Vegas.

And I dont see how they can have successful ongoing surveillance of Dresden while the Za Guard is on the case; it was a plot point about how Madeline Raith tried this in Turn Coat with a PI, and how fast they sniffed him out and wrecked his shit.

A situation where they kept an eye on Dresden after he killed the Summer Lady would have made the events of Dead Beat very different. And if they were actively watching the White King, Thomas as a member of the Raith family would know. I can still recall when Ortega tried to have him surveilled in Death Masks, and Thomas fed the watcher/hitman to his sisters.
 
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I already said that I'm bad at English. But here's my idea of charm.

Virtual Souls of the Queen/Sparks of Infernal Exalt/Creation of the Infernal Incarnation/Avatar. Choose a name to suit your taste

The Infernal breaks off a piece of her flaming soul creating a subsoul. And she is able to breathe a spark of this flame into a copy of her body created by her hands, reviving the body as a clone of oneself.
System:The infernal spends five essence, and separates it into a separate sub-soul associated with its original essence. Such a soul is a complete mental copy of the infernal at the time of creation, but is inactive. Then the Infernal must create a body for this subsoul, creating it with her own hands. And then this simulacrum can be revived and turned into a clone when the sub soul possesses inanimate matter. Turning simulacrum into a copy of the infernal made of flesh and blood.

This clone is a perfect copy of the infernal and comes to the world naked, perfectly loyal to its creator, precisely aware of what it is, and in possession of the same memories and personality as the infernal. It has the same traits as the infernal(and may also have unique features built into the body during the creation of the latter. At the discretion of the GM).

The infernal can have up to Essence rating minus one clone active at once. By spending one essence, infernal can order sub soul to leave the body, causing the body to dissolve into ectoplasm. At the same time returning the subsoul experiences and memories to the infernal. The subsoul of the destroyed clone lies dormant in the soul of the infernal, awaiting a new body.. If the Infernal wishes, she can recreate specific absorbed subsouls when using this charm.

Subsouls are directly connected to the exalt that created them and her essence, gaining access to the passive benefits of the infernal's charms. This connection also makes the clones more than just mortal copies of the infernal. Making it impossible for them to be transformed and possessed by other entities without the permission of the infernal. Giving the main soul the ability to protect their consciousness from invasion. Or activate the self-destruction of the clone when the enemy tries to hack into their memory or other interrogation methods. And allowing this connection to be severed, turning the clone into inert ectoplasm that has no sympathetic magical connection with the exalt.

If the Infernal should ever die while any of her clones are abroad in the world, The original body of infrernal becomes a whirlwind of green fire and flies across the world towards the clone. Consuming the clone in a hurricane of flames and absorbing the clone's memory and identity. After which the flame fills the clone's body and the main soul of the Infernal now inhabits this body. All modifications to the clone's body are destroyed during the transfer process. . Reincarnating in this fashion reduces the Infernal's Essence rating by 1. If this would reduce her to Essence 0, then reincarnation is impossible
I know this is probably not that great, but I hope this gives a rough idea of how I see this charm and its mechanics. Here we still need mechanics for crafting bodies, clarification on whether it is possible to give them something other than the usual properties and other details. But this is how I see the Molly version of this charm

And yes, this is a huge description. But this charm is almost as difficult as creating your own Worldsoul. I think it deserves details.

@DragonParadox What do you think?
 
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Made aware? Possibly. Maybe probably, depending on their need to know and perceived reliability.
Daedalus probably isnt on that list. Thats very much a different matter from having active surveillance ongoing of Molly in Chicago, any more than they would of Harrowmont in Vegas.
1) The LoC has to report to higher ups.
2) Multiple branches of the US Gov are aware of the supernatural.
3) The higher ups can choose to disperse that information amongst any clued in branches that they believe should be made cognizant of a new rising political power from offworld operating in America.
4) Those branches have their own protocols who they choose to spend assets watching and what they use to go about it is out of our hands and unknown.
5)Daedalus or some other branch were asking for the go ahead to use some EMP type tech in Vegas to detect supernaturals. We were not aware of such technology before that interlude. Just because you think I'd be irrational doesn't mean they wouldn't try it if they're confident in their capabilities.
 
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1) The LoC has to report to higher ups.
2) Multiple branches of the US Gov are aware of the supernatural.
3) The higher ups can choose to disperse that information amongst any clued in branches that they believe should be made cognizant of a new rising political power from offworld operating in America.
4) Those branches have their own protocols who they choose to spend assets watching and what they use to go about it is out of our hands and unknown.
5)Daedalus or some other branch were asking for the go ahead to use some EMP type tech in Vegas to detect supernaturals. We were not aware of such technology before that interlude. Just because you think I'd be irrational doesn't mean they wouldn't try it if they're confident in their capabilities.
-The SCD-LoC is by their own admission to Molly selective about who they talk to and how much.
And have gotten even more so since the War on Terror began.


-Aware is not the same thing as understand.

Its one thing to know that there are supernaturals, its quite another to understand that there are functional nationstates and individuals with more destructive power than the nations of Earth. Or the breadth of their activity and responsibility. Or how they are intertwined with the health of the planet.

Note how Von Triers was reporting the RPG explosions on TV as the equivalent of gang activity?

I certainly dont think they are going to tell the rest of the US government that Las Vegas is a Hellmouth guarded by a demon and designed to feed it, and the demon's current accredited representative is a university archivist from New England.
Someone will inevitably fuck around, and be led to find out.


-See above


-Daedalus' tech may or may not work. They were asking for permission for a test, after all; its not operational tech.

We may not have known about it, but we are literally just seven months into the supernatural as an active player, and maybe 2-3 months as the head of a nationstate with nationstate resources.
I doubt that the major players are unaware of them or their activity anyway.

And I willl further point out that they have allegedly tried something previously in New Orleans that turned out as a disaster.
 
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To be fair, New Face guarantees a perfect duplicate of the original's body.
But unlike New Face, BMI guarantees that it cannot be penetrated (unless, according to the QM, you are using the Sight, with all those risks), while New Face makes no such guarantees.
BMI should also apply to the supernatural detection technology developed by Daedalus, assuming it would work on an Exalt at all.
 
Current tally:
Adhoc vote count started by uju32 on Mar 3, 2024 at 6:41 PM, finished with 441 posts and 36 votes.

  • [X] Plan Feeding and Healing v2
    -[X] Molly, 41 XP
    --[X] Splintered Gale Incarnation, 20 XP
    --[X] Alchemy 4, 6 XP
    --[X] Inner Devils Unchained, 12 XP
    --[X] Awareness 1, 3 XP
    -[X] Lydia, 15 XP + 12 XP = 27 XP
    --[X] Warding of Divine Ancestry, 15 XP
    --[X] Companions of the Hunter, 12 XP
    -[X] Tiffany, 15 XP + 7 XP = 22 XP
    --[X] Lore of Awakening 3 dots, 22 XP
    [X] I Can See You, But You Can't See Me!
    [X]Plan Saints and Sinners
    -[X]MOLLY: 48XP (11 pts sent to party members, 1 pt unspent)
    --[X]Black Mirror Incarnation: 5 dots: 15xp
    --[X]Inner Devils Unchained: 4 dots: 12xp
    --[X]Running To Forever: 1 dot: 4xp
    --[X]Ox-Body Technique: 1 dot: 3xp
    --[X]Countermagic[Human]: 3xp
    --[X]Alchemy 3+4: 6xp
    --[X] Awareness 1, 3 XP
    --[X] Alertness 2, 2 XP
    --[X]Remainder: 1xp
    -[X]LASH: 20(Base 15 + Molly 5)
    --[X]Lore of Awakening 1: Find The Faithful: 7xp
    --[X]Lore of Awakening 2: Cleanse: 5xp
    --[X]Alertness 1: 3xp
    --[X]Merit: Green Thumb(Tradition Book Verbena p70): 1 dot: 3xp
    --[X]Merit: Celestial Attunement(V: DA Revised p274): 1 dot: 3xp
    --[X]Flaw: Changelings Eyes(C20): 1 dot: 3xp
    -[X]LYDIA 21(Base 15 + Molly 6)
    --[X]Warding of Divine Ancestry: 5 dot: 15xp
    --[X]Arms of Iron: 2 dot: 6xp
    [X]Plan Minion care
    -[X]Molly 60 xp
    –[X]False Springs Beckon (•••) 9XP
    –[X]Inner Devils Unchained (••••) 12Xp
    –[X]Endless Torment Emanation (•••) 12 XP
    –[X]Shadow Spite Curse (••) 6XP
    –[X]Golden Years Tarnished Black (••) 6 XP
    --[X]Prayer eating first dot 2 XP
    --[X]1 XP left over
    -[X]Lydia
    –[X]Companions of the Hunter (••••) 12 XP
    --[X]Leadership (•) 2 Xp
    --[X]1 XP saved
    -[X]Tiffany
    --[X]Buy first dot of lore of awakening 7 xp
    –[X]Brawl 1 2xp
    –[X]Animal ken 1 2xp
    –[X] Second dot of lore of awakening 5 XP.
    [x] Plan: Trying to buy votes. V2
    -[X]Molly 60 xp
    --[X] Splintered Gale Incarnation, 20 XP
    --[X] Counter-Conceptual Interposition, 16 XP
    --[X] Maggot Mana Plague, 8 XP
    --[X] Inner Devils Unchained, 12 XP
    --[X]Running To Forever, 4xp
    -[X] Lydia - 15 XP
    --[X] Purchase Warding of Divine Ancestry (15 XP)
    -[X]Tiffany
    --[X]Buy first dot of lore of awakening 7 xp
    –[X]Brawl 1 2xp
    –[X] Second dot of lore of awakening 5 XP.
    [X] Plan Feeding and Healing
    -[X] Molly, 41 XP
    --[X] Splintered Gale Incarnation, 20 XP
    --[X] Alchemy 4, 6 XP
    --[X] Maggot Mana Plague, 8 XP
    --[X] Awareness 2, 5 XP
    --[X] Alertness 2, 2 XP
    -[X] Lydia, 15 XP + 12 XP = 27 XP
    --[X] Warding of Divine Ancestry, 15 XP
    --[X] Companions of the Hunter, 12 XP
    -[X] Tiffany, 15 XP + 7 XP = 22 XP
    --[X] Lore of Awakening 3 dots, 22 XP
    [X] Plan Feeding and Healing + Defence
    -[X] Molly, 41 XP
    --[X] Counter-Conceptual Interposition, 16 XP
    --[X] Alchemy 4, 6 XP
    --[X] Maggot Mana Plague, 8 XP
    --[X] Awareness 2, 5 XP
    --[X] Alertness 2, 2 XP
    --[X] Prince of Ruin Attitude, 4 XP
    -[X] Lydia, 15 XP + 12 XP = 27 XP
    --[X] Warding of Divine Ancestry, 15 XP
    --[X] Companions of the Hunter, 12 XP
    -[X] Tiffany, 15 XP + 7 XP = 22 XP
    --[X] Lore of Awakening 3 dots, 22 XP
    [X] Plan Feeding and Healing + Defence v. Yog
    -[X] Molly, 41 XP
    --[X] Counter-Conceptual Interposition, 16 XP
    --[X] Alchemy 4, 6 XP
    --[X] Inner Devils Unchained, 12 XP
    --[X] Awareness 2, 5 XP
    --[X] Alertness 2, 2 XP
    --[X] Prince of Ruin Attitude, 4 XP
    -[X] Lydia, 15 XP + 12 XP = 27 XP
    --[X] Warding of Divine Ancestry, 15 XP
    --[X] Companions of the Hunter, 12 XP
    -[X] Tiffany, 15 XP + 7 XP = 22 XP
    --[X] Lore of Awakening 3 dots, 22 XP
    [x] Plan: Molly's Warp storm and Demons
    -[X]Molly 60 xp
    --[X] Alchemy 5, 22 XP
    --[X] Mana Manipulation, 13 XP
    --[X] Maggot Mana Plague, 8 XP
    --[X] Inner Devils Unchained, 12 XP
    --[X] Awareness 2, 5 XP
    -[X] Lydia - 15 XP
    --[X] Purchase Warding of Divine Ancestry (15 XP)
    -[X]Tiffany
    --[X]Buy first dot of lore of awakening 7 xp
    –[X] Second dot of lore of awakening 5 XP.
    [X] Sorceress Might and Alchemical Perfection
    -[X] Increase Alchemy to 5 Dots (22 XP)
    --[X] Prima Metallum ●●●
    --[X] Mana Crystal ●●●●
    --[X] Thunderclap & Flash ●●●●●
    -[X] Purchase Alchemy Recipes (10 XP)
    --[X] High Kevlar ●
    --[X] Greater Asprin ●
    --[X] Metaphysical Gear ●●
    --[X] Astarte Venerian ●●●
    --[X] Nabu Mercury ●●●
    -[X] Buy Mana Manipulation to 3 Dots (13 XP)
    --[X] Mana Field Perception ●
    --[X] Infusion ●●
    --[X] Shape Mana ●●●
    -[X] Buy Ancient Sorcery - The Tree's Many Branches (10 XP)
    -[X] Buy Awareness to 2 Dots (5 XP)
    -[X] Total XP Spent: 60
    [X] Sorceress Might and Alchemical Perfection V.4
    [x] Plan Feeding and Healing + Defense
    [X]Plan Minion care
    - [x] Molly 57 xp
    –[X]False Springs Beckon (•••) 9XP
    –[X]Inner Devils Unchained (••••) 12Xp
    –[X]Endless Torment Emanation (•••) 12 XP
    –[X]Shadow Spite Curse (••) 6XP
    –[X]Golden Years Tarnished Black (••) 6 XP
    --[X]Prayer eating first dot 2 XP
    -[X]Lydia
    –[X]Companions of the Hunter (••••) 12 XP
    --[X]Leadership (•) 2 Xp
    --[X]1 XP saved
    -[X]Tiffany
    --[X]Buy first dot of lore of awakening 7 xp
    –[X]Brawl 1 2xp
    –[X]Animal ken 1 2xp
    –[X] 5 Xp left over


Votes are tied.
 
I'm personally thinking of voting for another plan with clones if we can agree on how to change them. to plug holes and improve them, at the cost of something else.
 
BMI should also apply to the supernatural detection technology developed by Daedalus, assuming it would work on an Exalt at all.
Definitely.
I assume even assuming the tech works and isnt compromised, it probably wouldnt work on any of the big boys anyway.
There's a reason the researchers arent all dead or suffered embarassing accidents, and the Senator hasnt been primaried.

I'm personally thinking of voting for another plan with clones if we can agree on how to change them.
If my opinion is worth anything?
BMI is more important right now. Clones next month.
 
Could you use punctuation and spacing when posting like this? It's a pain to read.

As to the content; no supernatural abilities cross over, so no exalted countermagic. Which means shelling out to learn how mortals do it, and operating a mortal dice limits.

The exp cost for making this work is 4-5 complete fomorian sorcerer PCs. Who still are too small time to handle the heat we're getting.

Seriously? She'll just counter spell it? "Just win, then there won't be any problems" is a nonsense defense.
You are mistaken about the counter Magic. We don't have exalted counter magic we have Night folk counter Magic. Any creature that has magic at all has countermagic, it's a rule that was introduced by mage that irritated everyone who ever read it but it is a rule that exists, Molly clones with an occult of five can cast innate counter magic just like any Kinfolk or revenant or ghoul.

Now the forums I was on when they saw the rule in Mage 20 immediately got irritated because it was very obvious that was to stop the "well the Mage just turns this vampire with no active magic defenses like thaumaturgy into a lawn chair" arguments. Which is made blatantly obvious when vampires despite their generation were given a willpower-based roll but werewolves got limited by their gnosis. Our clones count in the same category as the vampires in that instance which means they roll a full nine dice countermagic on effects cast on them. Before you say well "no clones aren't night folk" hunters on the list and so are hedge Wizards.

Which comes back around to if the Clones are given any level of preparation at all how do you subdue them without instantly killing them or them self-terminating on you or by themselves or if we give them a means to fight at all by trying to kill whoever's taking them. We can make a sword that is capable of fighting in less than 5 minutes. The defense isn't just win forehead it's they can't win but neither can the enemy and them losing hard enough is a win condition. This also ignores the idea of just not sending them out into the real world which would still be worth it because we'd get to know more about our own inner world.

Edit: God damn it I didn't even want splintered Gale incarnation but all these ideas that a mortal person with near maximum combat pool and Magic defense pool are in any way defenseless is driving me nuts.
 
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This also ignores the idea of just not sending them out into the real world which would still be worth it because we'd get to know more about our own inner world.
Stop bringing that up as a possibility. Pretty much everyone, if not everyone, who wants the charm right now wants to deploy them on Earth. If we get it then that's going to end up happening.
 
Stop bringing that up as a possibility. Pretty much everyone, if not everyone, who wants the charm right now wants to deploy them on Earth. If we get it then that's going to end up happening.
Obviously, that is true but I want to know more about the martial arts and the general politics and just the structure of our inner world at all. So no I will not stop bringing it up because I'm not the only one I know other people in this thread have mentioned that as well.
 
If my opinion is worth anything?
BMI is more important right now. Clones next month.
That is why and because the clones are not ready, I am not changing anything yet. I'm just voting for the plan with BMI. Clones are only worth it when we make them useful by editing them so that they are actually useful and their RAW integrates the changes made to them in this quest.

Edit: God damn it I didn't even want splintered Gale incarnation but all these ideas that a mortal person with near maximum combat pool and Magic defense pool are in any way defenseless is driving me nuts.
They are not defenseless. They are simply a point of vulnerability greater than family or friends. Because they have access to giga mega secret information about Molly and her weaknesses and stuff that no one knows. The only way to take clones and not have to deal with this is to figure out how to protect them. This is either crafting/third party powers or a new charm variant.
 
Yeah I looked back over the interlude and your right. They did just straight up lie to downplay what was going on. Now just because they did so then doesn't mean they'd be willing to do so with the alien world factor thrown in but that seems plausible.

No way this could backfire.
So no I will not stop bringing it up because I'm not the only one I know other people in this thread have mentioned that as well.
No I mean stop acting like not deploying them on Earth is an option to support voting for the charm right now, it isn't and you know that.
 
Yeah I looked back over the interlude and your right. They did just straight up lie to downplay what was going on. Now just because they did so then doesn't mean they'd be willing to do so with the alien world factor thrown in but that seems plausible.

No way this could backfire.

No I mean stop acting like not deploying them on Earth is an option to support voting for the charm right now, it isn't and you know that.
There are more votes not even to get the charm at this point. If they were going to be deployed on Earth there would definitely be a vote yet again and not even everyone who wants the clone charm would want to deploy them on Earth so again no I will not stop saying it.
 
We have ATP for that
ATP is great, but there are differences. For one, BMI lasts for as long as we need it at one mote. For another, it lets us interact with people under different seemings instead of needing to choose between being ignored and revealing our true identity.

Might also have utility for stuff like intimidation, because we can look true to life like anything that qualifies as a person. It'd be interesting to project Molly's steel skin or Shintai forms without triggering them, cause anyone who'd been around them before would have to deal with the implication that Molly figured out how to hide all the shit they've felt from her previously. :V

There's also definite synergy between the two either way. Turning into someone, activating ATP, then beating them unconscious wearing their own face before impersonating them to others is good old fashioned infernal fun.


You just voted to have Molly tell everyone she has control over an entire nation/world. She is getting 24/7 surveillance from the US Gov while on American soil period.

Edit: Oh yeah for the others maybe but we are going to be getting that premium surveillance from the Gov at least. All of our internet activity anything they think they can get away with. We should put a cyberdevil in our computer.
That one is a maybe from my perspective.

We should take precautions because they definitely want to know what's up, but they also don't want to piss a potential ally off too much. It wouldn't be totally surprising if they tried to keep their observations indirect. 'Just Happen' to catch her in routine requires for data from her ISP, or have the cops really start paying attention to existing traffic cameras as part of a new safety program that just got funding via the Citizens for Improving America nonprofit.
 
There are more votes not even to get the charm at this point. If they were going to be deployed on Earth there would definitely be a vote yet again and not even everyone who wants the clone charm would want to deploy them on Earth so again no I will not stop saying it.
Damn near everyone who brings up the positives of the charm express the desire to deploy clones on Earth and try to account for the risk. So much so that if it came to a vote It's rather clear that's what we'd end up doing with it. We'd never buy the expensive charm then end up only using them in the FiveFold Courts.
 
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And yes, that's the only thing that wasn't discussed. How much XP will clones charm cost if they are made homebrew...More or less or the same as the original...It will be interesting to see, but this is a question for the GM.
 
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