Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

Okay Dresden is a wizard we are not. Also notice how you said counter spell and not unweave. Sorcery Unweaving specifically relies on having knowledge of path magic similar to the effect. Demonic Primacy of essence is not mind controlling in any sense of the word. Mercy in servitude also not a mind affecting effect generally also we can't use alchemy in non-ritual manners at all.
If you read my quote again, you will notice that it was talking about Unweaving, not Counterspelling.
Let me give you the full quote about both, so there's no doubt:
Counterspells and Unweaving

Any sorcerer who does more than dabble in the Arts will
learn at least some basic countermagic, if only so that they
can try and undo the messes they inevitably create while
learning
. There are as many different forms of countermagic
as there are spells; in plain terms, however, they are divided
into two basic types: Counterspells arid Unweaving.

Counterspells are cast at an incoming spell or effect and
serve to blunt or dispel it before it can take effect. Roll Wits +
Occult (difficulty 8);
each success you score cancels one of the
opponent's successes. If the opponent ends up without enough
successes for the spell to go off, then it fails (but she still loses
whatever costs she paid, be it blood, Quintessence, Willpower
or whatever). You can spend Willpower to aid a Counterspell,
but you must score at least one natural success for the Counterspell
to work at all.

Unweaving is the art of disassembling another spell caster's
effect. The sorcerer must have knowledge of the Path that was used
to create the effect in the first place
(if trying to unweave an effect
not based on sorcery, such as Thaumarurgy, Sphere magic or the like,
use the Path most applicable). If your character has at least one dot
in the Path (or a related one) being used, roll Intelligence + Occult
(difficulty 8),
using the Extended Rolls rules (see above). You must
score at least as many successes as the original caster scored to
unweave the spell;otherwise, it may be weakened, but it will remain.

Long standing Enchantments and those based on Thaumaturgy or
Sphere magic can take more effort to unweave; In the case of very
ancient, very powerful Enchantments, sometimes as many as 15 or
even 20 successes might be needed (time tor some teamwork).
Spells cast by sorcerers (or others) that are more knowl-
edgeable than the unweaver are significantly more difficult to
undo. For every rwo levels of difference between the unweaver's
level in a Path and the original caster's level, an additional
success is needed. Thus, if you have no knowledge of the Path
of Hellfire and your opponent has four dots with 6 successes on
an effect, you would need 3 successes in order to cancel the first
success and 8 to completely wipe out the spell.

Counterspells and Unweaving work against sorcery and Sphere
magic (and, if the Storyteller wishes, against the mystic powers of
vampiric magic, faerie glamour and the like). There are also
specialized versions of Counterspells and Unweaving designed to
work against spirit powers (such as spirit Charms, ghostly manifes-
tations and similar otherworldly occurrences). These must be
bought separately. Each group of countermagic costs 3 freebie or
experience points, so buying a full set of countermagics costs 12
points. For a sorcerer more interested in staying alive than in dealing
damage, it's an investment well worth the cost.
Molly has Alchemy 2; she is a Path Sorcerer.
She can do both Counterspells and Unweaving if she learns. And she can do it for spirit magic, vampire magic and fae magic.
Just needs to spend 3xp for each variant.

Wizards dont have to learn it individually that way. But they dont get to cheat like she does.
They cheat in other ways.
 
If you read my quote again, you will notice that it was talking about Unweaving, not Counterspelling.
Let me give you the full quote about both, so there's no doubt:

Molly has Alchemy 2; she is a Path Sorcerer.
She can do both Counterspells and Unweaving if she learns. And she can do it for spirit magic, vampire magic and fae magic.
Just needs to spend 3xp for each variant.

Wizards dont have to learn it individually that way. But they dont get to cheat like she does.
They cheat in other ways.
No I understood you all of that but without a path that is adjacent or directly related to the effect you cannot unwave a spell. The text of Unweaving specifically mentions Thamaturgy as something you can unweave if you have a path or a related path that is connected to the Thamaturgy effect. Saying Alchemy allows you to unweave mind control is like saying Alchemy lets you unweave a fireball using cauldron fluid Dynamics it's kind of funny I will admit but it's not the case. There's a reason I said Fascination or Oneiromancy they are the only two paths that are available to Sorcerers that directly interface with the mind as a construct or concept rather than meat to be changed like Alchemy.
 
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Surprised that Endless Torment Emanation isn't getting more love. It would have made this Las Vegas arc something we could handle mostly over the phone. All those distractions would have been hard to organize when facing a +2 DC on everything and the fight would have been very easy.
 
No I understood you all of that but without a path that is adjacent or directly related to the effect you cannot unwave a spell. The text of Unweaving specifically mentions Thamaturgy as something you can unweave if you have a path or a related path that is connected to the Thamaturgy effect. Saying Alchemy allows you to unweave mind control is like saying Alchemy lets you unweave a fireball using cauldron fluid Dynamics it's kind of funny I will admit but it's not the case. There's a reason I said Fascination or Oneiromancy they are the only two paths that are available to Sorcerers that directly interface with the mind as a construct or concept rather than meat to be changed like Alchemy.
No, you dont need a Path, you need related knowledge. Explicitly stated.
Could be a Path, could be use of a similar effect, could be academic study or something else. Molly's use of Demonic Primacy would qualify, especially coupled with her history of using Demonic Primacy for several months and her Occult 5 rating.

Even if the Path requirement was there, Alchemy explicitly produces effects from every other Path there is out there.
It and Enchantment. Learning it qualifies.

Do you think those people counterspelling and unweaving vampire and fae magic effects know how to cast vampire and fae magic? Of course not.
What they have is knowledge.
 
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No, you dont need a Path, you need related knowledge. Explicitly stated.
Could be a Path, could be something else. Molly's use of Demonic Primacy would qualify, especially coupled with her history of using Demonic Primacy for several months and her Occult 5 rating.

Even if the Path requirement was there, Alchemy explicitly produces effects from every other Path there is out there.
It and Enchantment.

Do you think those people counterspelling and unweaving vampire and fae magic effects know vampire and fae magic?
Of course not.
What they have is knowledge.
Explicitly stated
Unweaving is the art of disassembling another spell caster's effect. The Sorcerer must have knowledge of the Path that was used to create the effect in the first place ( if trying to unweave in effect not based on sorcery, such as thaumaturgy, sphere Magic or the like use the path most applicable). If your character has at least one dot in the Path ( or a related one) being used,
Sorcerer revised page 63. Unlike a lot of janky rules this one is pretty clear you must have knowledge of a path that is applicable, To the effect. You could use Fortune or Mana manipulation to Unweave a fortune path or entropy sphere effect you cannot use Hellfire in that instance. You can use the path of conveyance to unweave a conjuration path or correspondence sphere effect but not healing. Sorry the examples are pretty Mage heavy but I'm really not super familiar with the fairy and other magical effects but the idea remains the same.

You can use Counter Magic on any effect but unweaving is specific in what it requires you cannot use alchemy to unweave all magical effects that's fuckin insane.
 
[X] Practical Solutions
- Willpower 10 (9 XP)
- Alertness 2 (2 XP)
- Alertness 3 (4 XP)
- Awareness 1 (3 XP)
- Politics 1 (3 XP)
- Streetwise 1 (3 XP)
- Crafts 5 (4 XP)
- Alchemy 4 (6 XP)
- Splintered Gale Incarnation (20 XP)
— Lydia
- Warding of Divine Ancestry
— Tiffany
- Lore of Awakening up to 3 (15 XP + 6 from Molly)
 
Okay can someone explain why they are voting for Lydia's charm that is worse than just counter spell and then not getting her stamina Excellency so she doesn't immediately die from using something that's worse than her innate counter Magic instead of just getting broad spectrum counter Magic and a wits Excellency which is cheaper both on Essence and experience than using her terrible terrible actual charm? She has an innate counter magic pool of Five dice wits plus occult the dice pool of that charm stamina plus occult three dice total. The privilege of paying for a non-reflexive defense that cost two of her seven Essence and is worse than her ingrained defense.
 
[X] Practical Solutions
- Willpower 10 (9 XP)
- Alertness 2 (2 XP)
- Alertness 3 (4 XP)
- Awareness 1 (3 XP)
- Politics 1 (3 XP)
- Streetwise 1 (3 XP)
- Crafts 5 (4 XP)
- Alchemy 4 (6 XP)
- Splintered Gale Incarnation (20 XP)
— Lydia
- Warding of Divine Ancestry
— Tiffany
- Lore of Awakening up to 3 (15 XP + 6 from Molly)
You why did you put warding of divine ancestry for Lydia rather than Countermagic?
 
[X] Sorceress Might and Alchemical Perfection V.4
-[X] Increase Alchemy to 5 Dots (22 XP)
-[X] Purchase Alchemy Recipes (4 XP)
--[X] High Kevlar ●
--[X] Greater Asprin ●
--[X] Metaphysical Gear ●●
-[X] Buy Mana Manipulation to 3 Dots (13 XP)
-[X] Buy Inner Devils Unchained (12 XP)
-[X] Buy Fortune to 2 Dots (7 XP)
-[X] Total XP Spent: 58
---[X] Lydia
--[X] Sorcery Counterspell (12 XP)
--[X] Excellence of the Tireless Psychopomp, Wits (4 XP)
--[X] Total XP Spent 16
---[X] Tiffany
--[X] Buy first dot of lore of Awakening (7 XP)
--[X] Second dot of lore of Awakening (5 XP.)
–[X] Total XP Spent (12 XP)
 
[X]Plan Saints and Sinners
[X] Plan: Trying to buy votes. V2
[X] Plan Feeding and Healing v2
[X] Plan Feeding and Healing + Defence v. Yog
 
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Lydia can learn it, but her Occult score is currently horrible at 1, and it costs almost half her current base Essence of 7/7.
And if she has to use an Excellency to cast it, she's spending 4/7 Essence.
I dont know if Lash can cast it at all; even if she could, and we assume 1 Faith = 1 Essence, it costs her her entire Faith pool.

Maybe Im missing something, but it doesnt appear to make sense for either of them.
And even Molly would have to take the Pentacle charm to reduce the costs, before it becomes worth the trouble for her.

The Asura's Wrath visuals are cool though
If they can learn it then there are rules for being tutored in it or learning it from the scraps of old books or off of cave walls. That's how you're supposed to get it if you're not using the merit.

As to utility; Lydia is essence three, and Lash is only a little behind her for all she's a different splat. The utility of an additional attack action for free on your turn is pretty significant. Even most exwod celestial multi attacks make you wait till the end of the round for the bonus attacks so that your opponents can reply mid flurry.

Against the vamps Lydia could have feasibly harvested back the power in short order
We strictly speaking dont have to make melee attacks from range.
Since RtF makes fullspeed movement reflexive, we can move in and out at full speed, shanking and running at will.
As long as the opponent is slower, of course.
Technically, but that doesn't help with a number of things, like counter attack charms or other reflexive attacks. It also uses movement to cover the gap space twice for every attack, which isn't a lot unless we're fighting someone who's only somewhat slower than us. If we want to hit multiple targets it becomes more of an issue, though that only really comes up once we have a trick to let us do that in the first place.

Molly can hover and movement is reflexive, so with a pretty simple item she can dedicate her entire movement per turn to maintaining distance without effecting her combat abilities at all. Your options become switch to ranged combat, have an identical trick, or die.

A significant number of things we've gone up against would be screwed if the only way to touch a target was to run at it faster than the speed of sound while also doing other stuff for any appreciable period of time.

There's also positive synergy with our retaliation charms, because most of them key off of your ability to make a melee attack off the source of an attack. Unless a gunmen is in sword's reach when they shoot us they wouldn't count, and the standing back to shoot things is kind of the point of using them. If our melee range is 10-15 yards then for the purposes of most DF engagements we can counterattack firearms.



I think there's metaphysical difference, but we'll have to ask.
I don't recall any ruling like that, and for whites the more important factor for waking up is power. Mutt shows us the influence of other factors, but they're not reds.

Besides, isn't this closer to what you want? If how you get the power matters this is the most divorced possible approach to feeding as whamps normally do.
Point of order:
There is no combat regeneration for Agg in ExWoD unless you're a Lunar. Even fomor with the regeneration power only regen lethal and bashing by W20 rules. They heal Agg at a rate of 1/day, and they pay Willpower for it each time.

Or someone with a healing Gift heals them.
digesting the great Beast (••••)
Speaking a secret name lost to the grinding passage
of the ages into the quiet vaults of her innermost self, the Infernal summons a single demon maggot into the chambers of her heart. There the maggot vomits forth a scrap of immortal, undying flesh chewed from the corpse of the Great Beast, which briefly lends its vital- ity to the Exalt.
System: Reflexively spend 1 Essence and roll Stamina + Occult against difficulty 7. The Infernal au- tomatically heals two levels of bashing damage or one level of lethal damage at the beginning of each turn for a number of turns equal to the successes rolled. Giving up three turns of healing allows her to heal a level of aggravated damage, instead
Three turns is a long time in a fight, but our ability to do that is still relevant.

If we want to avoid shit like our mandatory nap in the middle of the arc it's worth considering DtGB.
Considering the ridiculous combat movement that Running To Forever provides I have to ask if charge attacks are a thing in WOD and if we should get Molly a lance to better take advantage.

Her melee skill applies to every hand held weapon after all.
There are charms for becoming invisible while moving and utterly silent until you choose to break it. Depending on how the reach splendor root is read it might let you pick arbitrary attack angles too.

So we could force people to fight an invisible, inaudible, brick that's somehow flying right around the speed of sound, who can attack without giving away the direction she's in right now.

"She's definitely somewhere within forty feet of you, just keep trying!" :V
 
So we could force people to fight an invisible, inaudible, brick that's somehow flying right around the speed of sound, who can attack without giving away the direction she's in right now.

"She's definitely somewhere within forty feet of you, just keep trying!" :V

Do you want to give the entire world nightmares? 'Cause that's how you give the entire world nightmares.

If I'm an Elder Vampire/Senior Council Wizard/Fae Noble/Outsider Knight and you told me I had to fight Molly like that, I'd just quit, go home, and descend into unending paranoia for fear of such a Molly ever becoming relevant to my life again.
 
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I mean we can keep stacking defenses on Molly, but considering she took 0 damage in the last big fight I don't think it's a good investment of XP. I generally prefer to use XP to do things rather than stopping things from happening.
 
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The thing is, our enemies are probably really desperate to kill Molly ASAP, and at this point they might realize the only way to escalate further is with nukes. Which Molly is currently vulnerable to.

I won't be satisfied until we can walk off literally everything our foes can feasibly throw at us, Ethniu-style.
 
Do you want to give the entire world
nightmares? 'Cause that's how you give the entire world nightmares.

If I'm an Elder Vampire/Senior Council Wizard/Fae Noble/Outsider Knight and you told me I had to fight Molly like that, I'd just quit, go home, and descend into unending paranoia for fear of such a Molly ever becoming relevant to my life again.
Once we have our perfect attack it's even better, because Molly could just as easily be doing Mach 1 in low orbit as directly behind you when she's boiling your blood if she has FTS+SIS running and there's a clear line between you and the sky.

Sure you couldn't see her in the former case anyway, but the added layer of uncertainty on which approach you should be worrying about right now really adds some spice to the situation.
I mean we can keep stacking defenses on Molly, but considering she took 0 damage in the last big fight I don't think it's a good investment of XP. I generally prefer to use XP to do things rather than stopping things from happening.
You're not wrong, but part of that was how this was arranged and the support we had.

A lot of stuff in this is dual use too. RtF does a lot for Molly's endurance in multiple ways, especially for a 1 dot. SIS is a 10 yard dead zone for sound, allowing stuff like noisily beating the shit out of people without drawing attention. That kind of thing.
In fact, one of the charms taken with the clones is exactly for that reason, Inner devil is something to make it so that our clones don't stay baseline and defenseless, and thus reduce the risks
A Fomarch is insufficient to guard all of Molly's secrets, and that's using Uju's crazy abuse of the carnival's freak show as justification for hiring spec ops guys.

[X]Plan Saints and Sinners
 
The thing is, our enemies are probably really desperate to kill Molly ASAP, and at this point they might realize the only way to escalate further is with nukes. Which Molly is currently vulnerable to.

I won't be satisfied until we can walk off literally everything our foes can feasibly throw at us, Ethniu-style.
Well if you want that you're going to want to get
By Rage Recast, Demon Armor +2 soak
Ancient Sorcery Invulnerable Skin of Bronze +4 soak
Alchemy 5 Iron Flesh (Fortitude 3) +3 soak
Perfected armor (High Kevlar, Prima Metallum, Prodigy) -2 difficulty to soak rolls +6 soak.

Edit: as far as I know all of those stack.
 
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Once we have our perfect attack it's even better, because Molly could just as easily be doing Mach 1 in low orbit as directly behind you when she's boiling your blood if she has FTS+SIS running and there's a clear line between you and the sky.

Sure you couldn't see her in the former case anyway, but the added layer of uncertainty on which approach you should be worrying about right now really adds some spice to the situation.


It is time for the powerhouses of the supernatural world to start checking under their beds for fear of Molly being there.
 
3 soak from Stamina + 5 from Mo Kung +4 from Ebon Scales +5 from shintai rolled at Difficulty 5 = 17 dice
Maximum: 5 from Stamina + 5 Mo Kung +2 By Rage Recast +4 invulnerable skin of bronze +3 Iron Flesh +6 perfected Armor +5 Shintai rolled at Difficulty 3 = 30 dice
To put that in context the only things that deal anywhere between 17 and 30 dice of damage are car bombs and artillery.
 
Well if you want that you're going to want to get
By Rage Recast, Demon Armor +2 soak
Ancient Sorcery Invulnerable Skin of Bronze +4 soak
Alchemy 5 Iron Flesh (Fortitude 3) +3 soak
Perfected armor (High Kevlar, Prima Metallum, Prodigy) -2 difficulty to soak rolls +6 soak.

Edit: as far as I know all of those stack.
They do, but really by the time you hit 20 soak you have enough that if something is hurting it is either somehow cheating your soak somehow or doing huge overkill uncountable damage.

Then again our soak rolls 1s minus so we could still super botch like Dragon did and die to a baby punching us.
 
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They do, but really by the time you hit 20 soak you have enough that if something is hurting it is either somehow cheating your soak somehow or doing huge overkill uncountable damage.
Yeah the only things that do that kind of damage are holding five sticks of lit dynamite in your hands, a truck bomb at point blank or a direct barrage of artillery.
 
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