Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

[uju32]

What speculation? It was pretty clearly an exaltation, and likely a lunar one, when it was mentioned in the text.

Click to shrink...

I went through this entire thing at the time. Right here:

Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files) Crossover - Fantasy

This deserves a detailed reply, but I cant address it right now. I'll try to get back to this later today. Lunars start with a higher floor than Infernals and other Solaroids. But they are pretty clearly balanced to peak lower than the Solaroids; once an Infernal buys its first Shintai, the gap...

forums.sufficientvelocity.com

From its passage scourging the Earth, to its association with the historical/mythological lands on the British Isles where Balor One-Eye was supposed to have had a presence, to the previous timing, to it being explicitly a weapon for a Fae lord.
We literally have Balor's Eye called by one of its cognomens in the prophecy.

Its not an Exaltation.
The themes in particular do not fit for it to be a Lunar Exaltation.

---

I will not be discussing this further, because it's pointless. We made each other's positions clear, and the arguments are repetitive, tiring, and useless. We'll let votes decide.

Click to shrink...

That's your opinion that I don't share at all.

Click to shrink...

Fair enough.

Ok, this argument has merit, in that we need more prep.

Click to shrink...

We might want Essence-Dissecting Stare as well, depending on where that stuff is.

---

@uju32
I suspect on the highest levels, Archangels and WG, DragonParadox will eventually have to make some decisions to work more with WoD/Exalted, or more with Dresden Files. Or maybe he has already, IDK.

The problem is that Dresden Files is pretty clearly a Christian story and for all that it pays lipservice to other deities, the WG is the alpha and the omega, the omnipotent and omniscient true God.

That doesn't really fit in a story with Exalted.
The simple existence of our Crown and the fact that we were asked not to look at his stuff already tells us that he is not truly without limits in this story. After all, an omnipotent being could put itself beyond the sight of a non-omnipotent being. Or I guess in mechanical terms could keep a perfect scrying-defense running whenever Molly tries to see, or just permanently.

On the other side of the equation, you have Exalted, where the basic conceit is that anything is possible, not easy, not without consequences, but you can definitely go on your classical Murder the Gods and Topple Their Thrones journey, including the closest figure to the Christian God in that world, Theion.

So sooner or later the QM has to decide whether to give Uriel or the White God a statsheet (thus making them mortal (if it has health, it can die) and going against the implicit and explicit metaphysics of the Dresden Side of things, or he has to make a "You Die" note like WoD had for Caine, thus breaking with Holden's intentions and the basic conceit of the WoDxEx game.

Click to shrink...

Not looking is less no limits, and more a consequences thing, as I understand it.
Very similar to the Garden of Eden story and the forbidden tree, now that I come to think of it.

QM ruling, of course.
Even though its unlikely to have any impact on the story; loyal angels have largely been plot devices in the books, and I dont see that changing here.

But I will remind you that even in Exalted, the Exalts were not without practical limits. There were, for example, good reasons why everyone, from the Solar Deliberative to the Primordials, did not want Sacheverell to wake up.

---

The process of entering creation nerfs the Outsiders. As in they leave most of their power and form Outside. Maybe not in every case but if Nemesis can get shards eaten and continue operations it would make sense to me if the main body/mind is in the Outside.

Click to shrink...

I dont think thats plausible given the data we have.

Butcher's current tier ranking is that the basic angel is beyond the Mothers, and can kill star systems. Archangels roadkill galaxies. The Outsiders are kept Out primarily by Winter led by Mab, who is a tier below even the Mothers, and who is not even at the Gates most of the time.

If the Outsiders received a significant nerf on that scale, they would stay outside Creation and comprehensively body the Winter armies that regularly venture beyond the Outer Gates, like we see in Cold Days.

If there was a single angel-tier actor on the other side, instead of crossing into Creation and getting nerfed, they'd punch out the Outer Gates from the Outside and send the hordes in without itself ever crossing the border. The fact that Winter keeps sending its armies outside the Gates to fistfight Outsiders simply implies a cap on how powerful the other guys have to be on their own home ground.

====
From the Word of Jim cosmology section:

Spoiler: 2013 KC signing

Info about really powerful beings
The Mothers are extremely powerful beings, I mean, they're really really well, you can tell because they hardly ever show up on the real world. In the Dresden Files universe if you don't show up on the real world, it's because you're too big to walk around there. For instance, I think in the third book, when the Dragon is talking about how the Earth couldn't bear his weight, it's not that the Earth itself would literally crack, it's that reality would have issues trying to contain him, because every time he coughs, it would bend around like Neo in the Matrix. So, they spend most of their time NOT on the real world, they spend it hanging around in the Nevernever, all the really heavyweight guys do that. If you're in the real world, well, the problem is that you're in the world, and you're kind of mortal, and something could come along and try and whack you, if they're fast enough, or good enough, or lucky enough. Which makes Odin a kind of special guy, because he doesn't mind it, he thinks it's awesome. But anyway, you can always tell. If there's folks who don't show up in the real world, it's because they're super big. So, like, an angel shows up, and it's just sort of a whispered presence that one person is aware of, that's because he's just too big to show up here, it's a giant sandbox, and he's got to be very very careful to not squash the sandbox. So, he just shows up for that one bit.

Spoiler: Mysterious Galaxy QnA

One of my favorite parts of your novels are the divine and the demonic, and kind of how they offer (?) each other, and how they have rules, and I wanted to ask, what made you decide that Chicago wasn't enough, that all of Creation has to be at stake?
Well, it's not all of Creation. It's just all of THIS Creation. We haven't really pulled the camera back far enough yet. There's a lot of reality in the Dresden Files. The Dresden Files is a universe that is driven by Free Will, and every time you make a choice, it creates a new universe. So, there's this vast spectrum of universe out there, and it's not just ours, there's causality going off in every direction. So a philosophical war on that scale is something that is just so tremendous you can barely imagine it. And while it dwarfs into unimportance our particular universe, at the same time, the only way to win that war is one choice at a time, one person at a time. And that's really what's going on at the level where the angels are operating, that's what they're concerned about. On the level where Dresden's operating, its like, "How can I survive until the next chapter?" and that's sort of the problem that we've got, as people, how do we look out and try to fix the things that are wrong with our world, when we're basically going, "How do I get to the next chapter?" How can we have that longer view point, do we need it? I don't know the answers to questions like that, but I enjoy the hell out of torturing Dresden with them! That's really kind of the point of what I do.

 

[BronzeTongue]

No, it makes perfect sense in context.

Nemesis is explicitly an entity that you can and do hide from or deceive by not mentioning its name, according to the Fae. Its something that we have seen Dresden force to answer questions. It does not dare actually contest Demonreach on its island; when its attempt to dupe Dresden failed in BG, it fled.

Click to shrink...

It has rules to follow, just like angels do. Remember Shiro's death? A foot solider angel of death was dead certain they could fist fight the Devil himself for his soul and win if necessary. Even with nerfs for having fallen if the power disparity was that great his rebellion wouldn't have even made it this far. They're losing, but still have a seat at the table.

You're stacking the greater number of things we have about Uriel's white room abilities against the relative lack of knowledge we have about Nemesis and filling in the blanks to serve your point in spite of what's effectively a direct statement to the contrary.

Raw physical force isn't exactly the measure of power at that level anyway. A galaxy busting entropy effect would fall flat against a perfect defense just as easily as anything else.

If they killed the planet the white God's free will thing would no longer shelter them, leaving three outsiders in a cage match with the unbound heavenly host.

Any plan that ends with "1vall actual biblical god and all his angels" is a bad plan. It also doesn't stop him from remaking creation. They can't just destroy the world, they need to do it the right way.

It doesn't come up in the books any more than Uriel's abilities do. Blowing up andromeda doesn't actually accomplish anything, so no one bothers.

In nemesis's case my assumption is there are limits to how much power it can put in someone without being targetable for a smite, or it's simply not built for that sort of act and is instead invested in a small well of deep effects that are nonetheless in the same weight class as Uriel's abilities.

Why is it not making progress? Cause this whole scenario is tilted in Heaven's favor. The whole point of that scene you quoted was that Uriel doesn't act in obvious ways. Why are you assuming they don't invest significant resources into sparring with each other and what mortals have to deal with is spill over?

Though if you're right we have no need to be concerned about anything, because Uriel already won and is just waiting for us to catch up with his plans.

Edit:

From its passage scourging the Earth, to its association with the historical/mythological lands on the British Isles where Balor One-Eye was supposed to have had a presence, to the previous timing, to it being explicitly a weapon for a Fae lord.
We literally have Balor's Eye called by one of its cognomens in the prophecy.

Its not an Exaltation.
The themes in particular do not fit for it to be a Lunar Exaltation.

Click to shrink...

Could be a lunar exaltation bound into a weapon like Usum was though. I hope it's not, but it seems possible.

 

[BoredMan]

The fact that Winter keeps sending its armies outside the Gates to fistfight Outsiders simply implies a cap on how powerful the other guys have to be on their own home ground.

Click to shrink...

Yeah it's my headcanon that Angels fight those around their level somewhere on the Outside and what they don't deal with is what Winter sees and gets.

 

[fictionfan]

You can still block shots from that with the right spell, it is harder to do than a bullet, but say Harry's shield bracelet can take some shots. A Warden's sword on the other hand would go right through it. Those things are some of the most optimized enchantments on the setting, at the precise mid-point of cost and effectiveness and they do two things:

1. Be Swords
2. Cut Magic

Then again if you wanted to kill a Lawbreaker with elector-lasers you could get half a dozen people to shoot them at once, there is only so much shielding one wizard can do. It is anyone's guess if they would actually take advantage of that.

Click to shrink...

No a don't think that the White Council is going to want to go that route mostly because the obvious way to do it is just make a bunch of hit squads of well trained, but maybe not individually power members. Well the Council seems to like the idea of powerful wizards self policing.

 

[BronzeTongue]

Yeah it's my headcanon that Angels fight those around their level somewhere on the Outside and what they don't deal with is what Winter sees and gets.

Click to shrink...

Clearly they have some endgame, because it'd make no sense if the result of the gates failing was "god gets out of his chair for five minutes to fix it" and they had no reply.

My thought is that the little outsiders are basically free for the big ones in arbitrary numbers. Rather than there being an overt epic cosmic fight that none of us can see, the big players are in a cold war. Creation is a fortress that gives the defenders an advantage, and winding up an archangel tier blast at the forces guarding it would get you shot by angelic counter battery fire.

From the other end, investing "real" resources into fighting trash mobs exposes whoever you have doing it to potentially getting hit by a real strike, risking material loss to the defenses for little gain.

So the outsiders have their agents trying to bring down the fortress from within, and they send trash mobs to put pressure on the little people who're their key to breaking the whole thing open. Which absolutely works; just look at what it did to winter and what winter does to everyone else.

They're a force for order, but grinding hyper-ptsd makes them monstrous to everyone around them. Misery and antipathy among reality's inhabitants are useful to them, and it ties down resources that could otherwise impede the sappers.

 

[DragonParadox]

Good night guys, see you tomorrow with a happy Maeve and Molly unearthing new powers of darkness and dread.

 

[BronzeTongue]

[X] Fey trainers in one of the sorcerous arts for you or a person of your choosing up to Mastery level

Of two bad options, this one is less bad, I think.

Click to shrink...

Splendor reagents are also potentially an option. A small number of low tier not murder ones, or single stronger one from someone we're pretty sure deserves it.

The red court is still full of assholes for example, and it'd be beneficial to the council if Maeve literally took the head of a duke/major count.

 

[fictionfan]

I feel like we should be able to ask the White Council for Red vamp bodies. They are at war anyway and don't seem to use them for anything.

 

[TheWoo]

[X] Fey trainers in one of the sorcerous arts for you or a person of your choosing up to Mastery level

 

[恐Drake]

[X] Fey trainers in one of the sorcerous arts for you or a person of your choosing up to Mastery level

 

[BoredMan]

I feel like we should be able to ask the White Council for Red vamp bodies. They are at war anyway and don't seem to use them for anything.

Click to shrink...

If they get around to asking for more guns we should ask them for supernatural corpses(regents) as payment.

 

[BronzeTongue]

On the topic of our next buy point, I think it's worth looking at a medium term alternative to the infernal multi attack from ancient sorcery:

the tree's many BranChes
As the sorcerer gathers her Essence and casts this spell, tree branches sprout from her torso. At the spell's culmination, the bark of these branches cracks and explodes, revealing additional arms that precisely match the Exalt's original limbs.
System: Spend 3 Essence and make an extended Intelligence + Occult roll against difficulty 7. Once the player accumulates five successes, the sorcerer grows additional sets of arms equal to her Essence rating for the rest of the scene. Whenever the sorcerer takes multiple actions using her new limbs, each subsequent action raises its difficulty as normal but doesn't suffer a penalty to its dice pool. If the sorcerer has three or more sets of additional arms, she can make up to two attacks per turn by using multiple actions, rather than being limited to only one attack per turn as normal.

Click to shrink...

Initially it doesn't look that amazing, but our native equivalent* isn't great for Molly's build:

thousandFold typhoon hand (••••)
The Infernal moves so quickly she seems to split into a bewildering array of simultaneous phantoms, all
striking against a single doomed opponent.
System: Reflexively spend at least 1 Essence. At the end of the turn, after all characters have taken their actions, the character may make two additional attacks at her full dice pool per point of Essence spent. She can make no more extra attacks than her Athletics rating (minimum 1).
These must all be directed at the same opponent.
Signature Effect: While in her Shintai form, Thousandfold Typhoon Hand may be used to make extra attacks against multiple targets.

Click to shrink...

Molly has 2 athletics so the charm gives more attacks on a given turn, but it also costs essence per use instead of lasting the whole scene. It also adds the attacks to the end of the round and requires us to use all of them on one target where the spell would give us more during our actual turn and can be used on anyone.

Molly can eat that occult roll in one attempt most of the time, and our essence is already high enough that it basically doubles our damage output for an entire scene.

There's also no rule suggesting it can't stack either. So if we take the cheaper spell first it leaves saves us 6 exp to spend on something else and we can always use both when we want to stab someone a lot.

I'd also argue that it should provide more benefits as our essence level grows as its version of the buff CCG and SCE get. Growing six arms, eight arms, and ten arms all having the same effect is just weird.

Given how much exp we're going to get I think this is probably among the most efficient combat enhancements we can get right now. That and our perfect attack, potentially RtF for stamina/essence recovery reasons.

The rest we have more strategic concerns for.

On a more subjective level, it'll also look metal as hell of reflavored as steel skin was.

*Incidentally, it's kind of funny in an annoying way that the signature here is that it gives you functionality every other celestial has in the base version.

 

[Azais]

2) Like I and BronzeTongue have previously argued, rolling the dice on additional Celestial Exaltations is a boneheaded idea at the best of times, let alone when one of them is an Abyssal Exaltation.
If they are being released because Plot, then the QM releases them because Plot.

Molly isnt going to do so IC.
She has a ringside seat for how easily her own Exaltation could have gone badly in the wrong hands.

Click to shrink...

We all agree to leave this matter regarding the Exalteds to be discussed only when it actually comes to a vote because it has caused several errors and considering that you don't like to postpone a discussion...

Please, for the love of God, leave this for later.

3)Going near a dragons hoard, haunted by a dragons death curse a la Wagnerian myth, without both Counterspelling and the Sight as a minimum, and preferably Fortune Path as well? And then bringing that shit home to somewhere people you care about live? Thats just called being a dumbass.

There's a goddamn good reason why noone else in this setting has looted the site in the roughly twenty years since Michael shanked his ass.
And its not because wizards and Red Court vampires and other supernaturals dont like dragon gold and magic shit.

Click to shrink...

The reason the treasure still exists and hasn't been stolen was the curse that has been placed on it, but we have the exorcisc of Sapphire already. I think there was a decision about him being able to remove the curse from treasures, with this and the exclusion of denarios and nemesis being the reason why he was one of the most beloved ancient spell from the beginning. @DragonParadox can you confirm or deny this, please?

Lol.
That could be an option for what to do with Siriothrax's corpse that would match the narrative weight of his death: Make a new elemental dragon to bolster Earth's stability against the Outsiders.

Are you a bad enough sorcerer/crafter to make a replacement?

Click to shrink...

And I want to make this idea of yours but instead of just defending reality also have loyalty to us (I'm getting very tired of just doing actions that benefit other people, Molly IC may not mind being so generous, but I certainly do), I'm still furious that I forgot to suggest that in exchange for the splendor the Sin-Eater owes us a favor every year that doesn't interfere with his duties since he's going to have a full tank all the time because of we.

 

[Earth-Destroyer]

Honestly want the training charm the most. And the Scholar version for full coverage of training potential.

 

[Azais]

[X] Fey trainers in one of the sorcerous arts for you or a person of your choosing up to Mastery level

 

[fictionfan]

No, he was talking about this fragment, I think:

Click to shrink...

Well that certainly seems to be healing, but healing Agg damage is a whole another beast then healing lethal which that cut certainly was. In fact even that broken back might have been lethal according to WOD wiki Agg damage is only ever the result of supernatural influence either from the attack or because the one attacked is weak against it. (like so many monsters having a weakness to fire or sunlight or sliver)

For humans, this is often an academic distinction: to them, Aggravated damage is just Lethal damage from a supernatural source.

 

[Odysseus2099]

Since we'll likely be buying charms soon I want to ask, @DragonParadox is there any chance of you accepting homebrew charms any time soon? Earlier you cited you didn't want the extra complication of balancing them cause you were still new to the system, but lately you've been balancing Prodigies, Splendors, and existing charms, so I was wondering if you were feeling more comfortable now?

What brought this to mind is a while back Molly got compared to Superman and I attempted to make some charms to mimic the remaining powers that existing charms can't copy, but got distracted by life before I could finish. I recently had some spare time and energy to finish them up, and wanted to show off.

Lanka
Heat Vision

Part of the Infernal's body becomes a portal to Ravana's dream of Annihilation, whether the eyes, inside of the mouth, palms of the hands, or fingertips. The infernal can release beams of searing radiation from these parts, melting flesh and metal alike.
System: Reflexively spend 1 mote to open the portals, causing the affected body part to emit green light and flame for the rest of the scene. Roll Dexterity + Athletics (difficulty 5) to aim the attack. The beams inflict (highest of Charisma or Intelligence + Occult) dice of aggravated damage at a range of (Essence x 20), with difficulty increasing with range per firearms rules.
Signature Effect: While the Infernal is in her Shintai form the attack gains the ability to redirect itself in flight, veering to avoid cover and track those attempting to dodge it. Cover becomes ineffective and the Infernal has the option to reflexively pay a single mote to hit regardless of what she and the target rolled.

Click to shrink...

Tried to make it so this could be fluffed as handblasts, Godzilla's atomic breath, or laser-eyes alike.

Signature is strait up Darkseid's Omega Rays though.

Being able to handle his own Super-senses

No lesser noise or brightness than the very destruction in Ravana's dreams shall inconvenience the Infernal.
System: The Infernal no longer takes penalties from loud noise or bright light insufficient to affect her health levels.

Click to shrink...

Not really sexy, but some of the Infernal super-sense charms (Witness to Darkness and Hateful Wretched Noise) carry pretty severe drawbacks, and the cool thing about Infernals is you can play your patron's themes against each other, using different Hell's specialties to cover each other's weaknesses.

Kakuri
Ice Breath

The Infernal draws forth a blizzard from the depths of Kakuri and releases it into the battlefield.
System: Reflexively spend 1 Essence to call forth the frozen gales of Kakuri for a scene. Dexterity + Athletics (difficulty 5) is used to aim the attack. The attack has a damage rating of 6 (lethal) and a range of 40. Those hit by this attack take a -2 penalty to subsequent strength and dexterity rolls until they take an action to break off the ice.
Alternately, the Infernal may use an action and spend 1 Essence to create a massive howling blizzard centered on a point anywhere within her line of sight. Everyone within (Essence rating x 10) yards of the blizzard's epicenter without sufficient protection (such as heavy-weather gear, a vampire's indifference to freezing to death, or some form of protective magic) suffers one level of bashing damage per round, alongside a –2 penalty to all rolls.
Signature Effect: The Infernal may reflexively fashion simple constructs from ice by rolling Craft + Dexterity.

Click to shrink...

Had the hardest time trying to balance this, and I'm not sure how well I did.

Hell of Being Skinned Alive
Super-Hearing

In the absolute silence in the vacuum above the Hell of being Skinned Alive even a whisper sounds like a gunshot. The infernal's hearing is enhanced to superhuman levels, but at the price of being unable to withstand loud noise.
System: The Infernal's sense of hearing is permanently enhanced, the difficulty of all Perception rolls using the sense drops by three, to a minimum of difficulty 3. In addition the number of successes on the roll are doubled. At this level the heartbeats of those in a few rooms over is a noticeable rumble, the Infernal can eavesdrop on a conversation in the neighbor's living room, or target enemies through thick walls by the sound of their breathing at only a -1 penalty.
While the Exalt can hear any sounds louder than a whisper she suffers a -1 penalty to all non-reflexive actions unrelated to immediately silencing it. This penalty rises to -2 while subjected to noises of comparable volume to shouting.

Click to shrink...

A canon charm from the original Exalted! I'd been hoping to try and adapt more of those, but they ended up not fitting the theme.

Wicked City
X-ray and Telescopic vision

Within the labyrinthine confines of the Wicked City privacy is never guaranteed, for all are subject to Mikaboshi's paranoid gaze.
System: By paying a mote and succeeding an Awareness + Perception roll the Infernal may see anywhere within (Essence) miles as if she were right next to it, regardless of any obstacles in the way.

Click to shrink...

Microscopic vision would probably be Wicked City too, but it's not nearly as iconic for Superman as these two, and I didn't feel like writing it up.

Super-Strength
Saṃghāta

To withstand the enormous weight of the Hell of Being Crushed to Death takes more than mere strength.
System:The Infernal may spend 1 Essence to reduce her weight and the weight of anything she touches, giving her her strength rating in automatic successes when lifting an object, as well as the effects of Soaring Crane Leap
Signature Effect: While in shintai the Infernal succeeds at absolutely any feat of strength involving objects up to the size of a skyscraper.

Click to shrink...

Home Brew of Home Brew! Earlier in the thread someone linked a google doc for the Hell of Crushing Boulders. This is basically Stone Shattering Impact (which is also a Superman Charm) but for lifting stuff instead of breaking it.

Durability and speed the canon charms have in spades, so I didn't bother with those.

Also made these two along the way:

Though it is made of brass and basalt, Lanka is not so limited in choice of building material. Whether made from stone, wood, or the bones of its victims, buildings find themselves transmuting to the proper elements sooner or later. The Infernals are much the same.
System: The Infernal gains the ability to eat and drink any substance and gain nutrition from it without ill-effects regardless of composition, though more traditional building materials are slightly more filling. She can also pass this ability on to her minions for things she orders them to eat. She must order them to eat a specific non-food object for this to take effect however. Simply granting permission or ordering them to eat things in general is not enough.

Click to shrink...

Another Exalted canon charm translated for the new world. Generally not really needed cause we have Transcendent Desert Creature... but what does being able to force people to eat non-foods mean for Vampires?

Damage to the buildings of Lanka does not last for long, rubble, scavenged wood, and even more damaged buildings are cannibalized to make immediate repairs to the fortress city. So too does the Infernal rebuild her own flesh.
System: Tending the Infernal's wounds may be rolled using Craft in place of Medicine. By paying a mote for the rest of the scene the Infernal may make a Craft + Wits roll as a standard action combined with a stunt to gather building materials from the area. To heal a point of Bashing damage takes one success, to heal Lethal takes two, and to heal Aggravated takes four. The building materials are fused into the Infernal's flesh and gradually transmute, leaving scars reminiscent of the building material.
Signature Effect: While the Infernal is in her Shintai form debris and refuse are perpetually drawn to her wounds, allowing her to heal 2 bashing or 1 lethal reflexively at the start of each turn.

Click to shrink...

If the Queen is the City, then it follows she can be rebuilt like one, no? I designed this one as an echo of Ablation of Brass and Fire, instead of making the city take damage for you, you destroy the city to heal yourself.

Also a combat-time regeneration charm with unique mechanics so it's not a rip-off of another one.

 

[Anaja]

Adhoc vote count started by Anaja on Feb 28, 2024 at 11:14 PM, finished with 97 posts and 18 votes.

• ---

  14 people have voted

  [X] Fey trainers in one of the sorcerous arts for you or a person of your choosing up to Mastery level

  • fictionfan
  • Earth-Destroyer
  • Narasan
  • Alratan
  • Klaus Wulfenback
  • LightLan
  • Vanguard_D
  • RXIV
  • uju32
  • Yog
  • Degorium
  • TheWoo
  • 恐Drake
  • Azais

  4 people have voted

  [X] Personal Intervention (You may call upon the Winter Lady to personally aid you over the course of an investigative action)

  • BoredMan
  • Goldfish
  • tenchifew
  • Artemis1992

That's a lot more one sided than I thought it was.

 

[Iron Roby]

[X] Fey trainers in one of the sorcerous arts for you or a person of your choosing up to Mastery level

I feel like we are jumping the tech tree by not having Council's basic trainers first, but at least it's a concrete step for future improvement. And it doesn't rely on banking on Maeve's competency, like the more open favor.

"Not just the Ancient Dead, they are just the ones who figured it out in the long silence of their being. All ghosts, proper ghosts I mean lingering souls... could do this if you could find a way to teach them."

"Yes, that is where my father was afraid your mind would go, which is rather hypocritical of him really since it is the first place my mind went.

Click to shrink...

So we need to train an army of ghosts with attitude to fight Outsiders. Got it.

 

[BronzeTongue]

And I want to make this idea of yours but instead of just defending reality also have loyalty to us (I'm getting very tired of just doing actions that benefit other people, Molly IC may not mind being so generous, but I certainly do), I'm still furious that I forgot to suggest that in exchange for the splendor the Sin-Eater owes us a favor every year that doesn't interfere with his duties since he's going to have a full tank all the time because of we

Click to shrink...

Being fair, there are all sorts of different kinds of profit. The goal I was aiming for with my write in was to effect change in a direction we want. It sets something up to advance our interests and give us an in to prod things more later. That's not the same as explicitly understood favors and hard currency, but it isn't nothing either. The sin eater should be pretty damn accommodating given the offer on the table, and the library should be a lot more amiable to the idea of listening to our input.

The prospect of default isn't one they're going to want to consider.

Not all our deals should be like this but it's not pure charity.

Edit: This is something we can and probably should be clear on when we actually make the offer; if we pay in endless cosmic power then nobody should be phoning in the two things we asked for.

X-ray and Telescopic vision

Click to shrink...

This is a really fun one considering how many charms key off of sight for us. Really feels like the sort of cheating an infernal should be engaging in when playing charms off each other.

 

[BronzeTongue]

The telescopic vision seems like a solution in search of a problem. We have all things betray which by itself should be enough to see satellites in orbit. But the X ray vision would be cool.

Click to shrink...

The obstacles stuff is what I was primarily what I was thinking about, since stuff like our perfect attack can technically be stopped by a privacy curtain. We can mitigate that, but this would help.

I think you're underestimating the utility of that phrasing; the exalt can see wherever the like in range, but neither the fluff nor the mechanics actually say anything about where her physical eyes need to be pointed. So if it was allowed to synergize like this we could kill people with SBS who are standing directly in our blind spot without moving or necessarily indicating we'd noticed their presence.

MHM is even funnier, we could hypothetically take actions no one else could see or obviously connect to us all across the whole area. Hooked into craft we could potentially be talking with someone while taking multi-action penalties to telekinetically assemble a bomb in the next room or something.

That's a very good synergy, but infernals are all about taking things with very specific rules and setting things up so that they're filled in an unexpectedly useful way.

 

[fictionfan]

I realized that right after posting and deleted it hoping no one would notice.

 

[Odysseus2099]

The obstacles stuff is what I was primarily what I was thinking about, since stuff like our perfect attack can technically be stopped by a privacy curtain. We can mitigate that, but this would help.

I think you're underestimating the utility of that phrasing; the exalt can see wherever the like in range, but neither the fluff nor the mechanics actually say anything about where her physical eyes need to be pointed. So if it was allowed to synergize like this we could kill people with SBS who are standing directly in our blind spot without moving or necessarily indicating we'd noticed their presence.

MHM is even funnier, we could hypothetically take actions no one else could see or obviously connect to us all across the whole area. Hooked into craft we could potentially be talking with someone while taking multi-action penalties to telekinetically assemble a bomb in the next room or something.

That's a very good synergy, but infernals are all about taking things with very specific rules and setting things up so that they're filled in an unexpectedly useful way.

Click to shrink...

Somewhat amusingly, I only made that one because I didn't understand ATB was that good. I'd partially written up a Lanka Charm that used radiation for X-ray vision, but was stuck on a hell for long range. Then I realized that while telescopes aren't exactly in theme for any of them, Clairvoyance is absolutely a SWLiHN/Wicked City concept.

 

[fictionfan]

I found 2. The Hell of sɹǝuuᴉS uʍop-ǝpᴉsd∩ (Inspired by Oramus) and the The Hell of Crushing Boulders (Inspired by Isidoros).

Edited to add links.

Click to shrink...

These are the inspiration hells. Of course there is always the

The hell of the 3rd act breakdown

All of the hells were originally made with the purpose of redeeming sinners and although they have gone far from their origins the signs are still clear in this hell. The hell of the 3rd act breakdown was made for the redemption of the completely unrepentant. Those who did evil knowing that it was evil for selfish motivations confident that they would never pay any consequences for their actions.

Between just you and me (•)
The infernal has learned the great therapeutics methods from the darkest of villains
System: Once per Scene the infernal may gain a mote of essence by

• Explaining details of their abilities to someone who doesn't know them
• Explaining their true future plans (if this triggers the Infernal will lose a temp willpower if they change plans without telling them first)
• Putting a victim into a death trap

If the Infernal does all of these 3 things in a single scene and leaves the area before the victim dies then they gain 3 motes and restores a point of temporary willpower.

Evil Laughing method (•)
The Infernal finds true merriment in the completion of her schemes and freely shares it.
System: When the Infernal restores a point of temporary willpower by any method (ex filling an intimacy) they may laugh evilly in jubilation any minions who laugh with them share in their joy and also restore a temporary willpower.

We aren't so different you and I (•)
The Infernal knows what makes them tick and by extension what makes others tick. It takes one to know one.
System:
Whenever the Infernal does a read intentions check if the target shares any intimacies with the Infernal the Infernal automatically learns of them. When targeting those shared intimacies in social combat the Infernal may pay one essence after rolling to double the number of successes.


Villainous dark matter (•)
Villains may lose, but schemes are forever
System: If the Infernal has bought any backgrounds then even if they lose them somehow - treasure stolen by the heroes, base destroyed, cult slaughtered- they do not lose them from their character sheet. Somehow the equivalents of equal value will come into the Infernals possession. Finding new treasure, finding a new base or a new cult. At the beginning of each arc the Infernal may refund all their backgrounds and use the XP to buy new ones. The XP used to buy this charm can also be used to buy more background.

Greater Evil Reveal (•)
The Infernal is never the lessor evil and her foes should recognize that fact.
System: Whenever anyone feels antagonism towards another target the Infernal can redirect that antagonism to herself as a reflective action. When used in combat the foe becomes incapable of attacking anyone, but the Infernal unless the Infernal is included in the attack.
This act will even change all relevant negative intimacies the foe may feel towards the other target to focus on the Infernal.



Scripted Encounter Defeat (•••)
Reading fate's script, the infernal tears out a few pages and substitutes their own.

System: On their first meeting with a character with no less than half their own essence rating (or equivalent) the infernal may choose to spend 2 essence to mirror any supernatural enhancements the target creature uses for the duration of the scene, save that they stack freely with the infernal's own abilities even if they otherwise wouldn't for the source. The infernal cannot use this ability to kill the targeted creature, and takes 4 unsoakable lethal damage if their actions indirectly lead to them dying within the same scene.

Using this in any scene where a previous target is present, even if they themselves are not selected a second time, gives them the benefits of any excellencies the infernal has running that scene when rolling against them.
-credit @BronzeTongue

Self Disposing villain (••••)
Most heroes are weak and cowardly, unwilling to kill the villain in the end. This charm allows the Infernal to take advantage of this tendency
System: Once per story arc if the Infernal would die they instead gain one last turn of action if the Infernal can find some means that would at least plausible kill them or lead to their body not being found within that turn and take it (Ex Jumping off; a tower, into the sea, a pit, a fire, etc) then their body will disappear only to reconstitute at the end of the arc with full health in a unknown safe place of the ST's choosing. This charm may also be triggered early before the Infernal would die.

Click to shrink...

 

[Acolyte]

If we want multi attack the thousand swords shih power is better than the spell.