Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

[FallenPears]

it would definitely work on red court vampires it just wouldn't retroactively give them back their soul they'd just be monsters who must serve and happen to have less cravings now. also yeah its perfect for partial reds.

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Ah yeah I meant more that it wouldn't be very enticing for them. As I understand it with the loss of the soul and such they're blood sucking monsters without empathy for humans from the ground up, it would be like someone offering me freedom from hunger in exchange for servitude. Like... I'm already free from hunger? Don't really have any problems eating. No I don't have any moral issues with what I'm eating (well I do IRL have a few but not enough for servitude and that's besides the point). And the biggest point of all, I like eating. Thank you have a nice day.

Unless I'm misunderstanding how reds work and some are sympathetic? It's been a while since I've read Dresden Files.

 

[firefrog600]

Ah yeah I meant more that it wouldn't be very enticing for them. As I understand it with the loss of the soul and such they're blood sucking monsters without empathy for humans from the ground up, it would be like someone offering me freedom from hunger in exchange for servitude. Like... I'm already free from hunger? Don't really have any problems eating. No I don't have any moral issues with what I'm eating (well I do IRL have a few but not enough for servitude and that's besides the point). And the biggest point of all, I like eating. Thank you have a nice day.

Unless I'm misunderstanding how reds work and some are sympathetic? It's been a while since I've read Dresden Files.

Click to shrink...

all reds lose their soul after eating many probably used to be nice people they still have emotions and such. But, uh their no longer really people unlike partial reds.

 

[uju32]

Just like swords were useless against bullets, too. And then we probably made a sniper shit himself when we started parrying his shots like we're living in an anime.

I don't expect a shield to actually be much use against bullets, certainly not as useful as our sword at least, but there are plenty of other supernatural enemies that prefer to get up close and personal when they attack. Some of them don't even need to get a solid hit to do bad stuff, with a simple touch being enough to inflict damage or negative effects. Having a shield is just an extra layer of defense we can use if necessary.

Also, we have the Tool Charm and lots of points invested in Crafting, so we might as well use them. It makes sense for Molly to spend some time creating stuff, otherwise she wouldn't have invested so much in the skill or power. It's true to the character we've built.

Click to shrink...

We were wielding a magic sword though.

Worth remembering: Shields are made of wood.
Some had metal reinforcement, but for weight and cost purposes they are generally made of wood and leather.
Some bucklers are of metal composition, but they are hardly going to stop the claws of a supernatural without supernatural bullshit of our own in play.

jims said pretty much everything exists dude magical shields must fucking exist its just not important. also doesn't think its worth it magic is heavily personalized in dresden files and dresden often doesn't have the time or resources to make a fucking staff and a shield is fucking conspicuous.

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Jim did not say everything exists in any citation I can find my dude.
We dont assume the existence of flying armor in the setting with no evidence.

This has nothing to do with Dresden's limited crafting ability as a benchmark.
We've seen the Fae at war and they dont carry shields to my recollection. We have seen two Summer Knights and neither carry shields. We've seen angels of death bear swords and no shields.

Conversely, we've seen the Wardens supply a customized magic sword to literally every Warden recruit, at least until Luccio jumped bodies. We've seen the three Swords of the Cross.
We've seen magic staffs, and magic eyeballs, and at least two types of magic robots.

No magic shields.

Magic shields might exist.
If they do exist, they're so rare that we've literally never seen anyone carry one in more than 13 books, 3 collections of short stories and multiple comics.

That in my eyes is suggestive.
But this is a quest, and the QM is entitled to their own interpretations.

 

[DragonParadox]

Hmm. Gonna think on this.
Might be better mechanically if there's simply a Merit that allows the person to treat their Melee rating as Brawl for the purposes of magic MA.

Magical shields do not exist in the Dresdenverse that Im aware of.
We've seen lots of magic swords, but no magic shields. Luccio used to make magic swords for every new Warden, but never bothered with shields, despite having been born in the 1800s.

A lot of supernaturals are old, and come from a time when sword and board was a lot more common. If even they dont bother....


Aesthetic is certainly part of it, and one which I agree with.

But the rest is that this is a magic universe. A free hand wields a firearm, or a knife, or magic, or can be used to manipulate stuff. All of which are much more valuable than a light shield that can be penetrated by a sidearm anyway. Even the Fae didnt use shields during Summer Knight, suggesting that the IC meta had decided shields were obsolete.

As for melee?
All the vampire Courts use hand to hand and melee weapons, as do a lot of combat servitors and summons, most of the minor Outsiders, and a lot of fae. Those are the opponents we've seen Dresden face.

If he doesnt think attempting to figure out shields is worth it, then it probably isnt.
Because we've seen him learn sword and staffwork when he thought it necessary.

Of course, Molly is allowed to make mistakes.
If it doesnt work for her, she can dump the shield at home.
Not like she is payimg XP for it.

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It should be noted that you are not wizard, you are playing an exalt for whom charms are as instinctive as breathing. Even if it makes sense for a wizard to keep their off hand free for magic, which I agree might be part of it, Molly is not a wizard.

 

[firefrog600]

We were wielding a magic sword though.

Worth remembering: Shields are made of wood.
Some had metal reinforcement, but for weight and cost purposes they are generally made of wood and leather.
Some bucklers are of metal composition, but they are hardly going to stop the claws of a supernatural without supernatural bullshit of our own in play.


Jim did not say everything exists in any citation I can find my dude.
We dont assume the existence of flying armor in the setting with no evidence.

This has nothing to do with Dresden's limited crafting ability as a benchmark.
We've seen the Fae at war and they dont carry shields to my recollection. We have seen two Summer Knights and neither carry shields. We've seen angels of death bear swords and no shields.

Conversely, we've seen the Wardens supply a customized magic sword to literally every Warden recruit, at least until Luccio jumped bodies. We've seen the three Swords of the Cross.
We've seen magic staffs, and magic eyeballs, and at least two types of magic robots.

No magic shields.

Magic shields might exist.
If they do exist, they're so rare that we've literally never seen anyone carry one in more than 13 books, 3 collections of short stories and multiple comics.

That in my eyes is suggestive.
But this is a quest, and the QM is entitled to their own interpretations.

Click to shrink...

jim once said if you go to the nevernever harry could find owlbears and kelpies. He did explicitly want a world where most things can exist under his cosmology. Also your acting as if magical shields are a mind fuck here like their so hard to fucking imagine. I assume most mythical artifacts exist to some extent.

Edit: he also went on to say that you can find literally everything in the nevernever that you could imagine.

 

[DragonParadox]

Wow Mercy in Servitude would totally fit with the recent discussion on using magic to make money and pay 'goons' to do good. If she has another meeting with Thomas or another cursed person she could totally pick this up in a really narratively fluid way.

Actually, would this work to quiet the rage in the berserker werewolves? I would guess this wouldn't work in full Red Court vampires due to how they work metaphysically but not sure how berserkers work in that sense. There should still be the partial reds who were turned but haven't drank blood yet too right, this would be perfect for them.

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It would work on both beserkers and Reds, though for the latter it would not make them more human, just more controlled. Basically if you have some kind of spirit/curse that is messing with your head/ impulse control or if it is warping your body in unsustainable ways mercy in servitude has your back.

 

[firefrog600]

It would work on both beserkers and Reds, though for the latter it would not make them more human, just more controlled. Basically if you have some kind of spirit/curse that is messing with your head/ impulse control or if it is warping your body in unsustainable ways mercy in servitude has your back.

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wonder how many red courts and white court would take that deal pretty much all of them have hated themselves to some extent at one point or another even white court who go all in on it.

Wait does telling the truth for fae count as a compulsion?

 

[Goldfish]

So from what I've absorbed through thread osmosis, reaching Essence 2 will allow us to spend up to 2 motes of Essence per turn instead of just 1, and increase our total motes from 10 to 12. I think it also gives us access to our Shintai form?

All of those make it seem like reaching Essence 2 is really important, but are there other effects or bonuses that come with the increase?

 

[firefrog600]

So from what I've absorbed through thread osmosis, reaching Essence 2 will allow us to spend up to 2 motes of Essence per turn instead of just 1, and increase our total motes from 10 to 12. I think it also gives us access to our Shintai form?

All of those make it seem like reaching Essence 2 is really important, but are there other effects or bonuses that come with the increase?

Click to shrink...

it gives more advantages in the future I think though you probably already knew that.

 

[DragonParadox]

So from what I've absorbed through thread osmosis, reaching Essence 2 will allow us to spend up to 2 motes of Essence per turn instead of just 1, and increase our total motes from 10 to 12. I think it also gives us access to our Shintai form?

All of those make it seem like reaching Essence 2 is really important, but are there other effects or bonuses that come with the increase?

Click to shrink...

1. Your daily mote regen goes up to 5 from the 4 it is now
2. You can take another iteration of by Rage Recast for the same XP cost as the first which grants access to another shintai aspect in your base form. Those are too many to enumerate but I think people wanted flight.

 

[Artemis1992]

So from what I've absorbed through thread osmosis, reaching Essence 2 will allow us to spend up to 2 motes of Essence per turn instead of just 1, and increase our total motes from 10 to 12. I think it also gives us access to our Shintai form?

All of those make it seem like reaching Essence 2 is really important, but are there other effects or bonuses that come with the increase?

Click to shrink...

That is the important part.
There are also some aspects of Charms affected by your Essence Rating, but we have none of the relevant ones.

A potentially important effect is that people trying to counterspell our Charms (if they can do it at all, but it is an option in ExWoD) have to oppose our Essence Rating.

 

[uju32]

It should be noted that you are not wizard, you are playing an exalt for whom charms are as instinctive as breathing. Even if it makes sense for a wizard to keep their off hand free for magic, which I agree might be part of it, Molly is not a wizard.

Click to shrink...

Sure.
Shares a lot with them though.
We'll see.

jim once said if you go to the nevernever harry could find owlbears and kelpies. He did explicitly want a world where most things can exist under his cosmology. Also your acting as if magical shields are a mind fuck here like their so hard to fucking imagine.

Click to shrink...

Most things =/= All things.
Butcher also explicitly denied that something like Harry Potter could exist under his cosmology.
You are advancing an No Limits Fallacy here.

Circling back, lemme repeat this:
We have evidence of two different types of magic robots in the canon Dresdenverse: both Mai's stone dogs that the White Council uses for security at meetings, and a classic golem that murdered a bunch of people in a short story.

We've seen a magic doom laser used as a cyber/bioimplant by a supernatural in the latest book.
The Fomor implement biomods on their servitors and slaves pretty much routinely.
The Dresdenverse is no stranger to mundane and magical wonder.

But there is NO evidence of any magic shields.
So far, at least.
Butcher may come up with one in the future.

---

@Goldfish
It just occurred to me:

Sneaking Out (Will be done in the evening/at night)
[] Hang out with your friends

Click to shrink...

This is breaking our implicit word and setting up an explicit clash with Charity if and when we get caught.
Because we are still grounded. Its risking the goodwill from banked good behavior we have already banked for whats ultimately something that can wait a week for summer holidays. That will have implications for a lot of other actions.

Keep this in mind.

 

[Earth-Destroyer]

So have a Charm I would like to see imported. This is the Bureaucracy booster charm of the Infernals.

Spoiler: Original Infernal Charm

InauspIcIous benedIctIon of endeavor
Cost:15m, 1wp; Mins:Essence 3; Type:Simple
Keywords:Combo-OK, Shaping, Sorcerous
Duration:Until broken
Prerequisite Charms:Unquestionable Yozi Authority,
Sublimation of Ordained Purpose
Cecelyne grants her favor to organizations whose policies
express the madness of her law. This Charm may be used to
enchant any social unit with a Magnitude no greater than
the Infernal's (Essence or Bureaucracy, whichever is higher).
The warlock must be socially interacting with the unit's leader
and communicate the full intent of the Charm while using it,
gaining the leader's assent. It is permissible to secure coopera-tion prior to activation via social attacks. Larger units must be
targeted piecemeal as individual departments or bureaus. The
warlock selects one task the organization must perform at re-curring intervals or actions that must be avoided at all times;
the burden should be strange and onerous without any seeming
connection to the organization's function, but the task or taboo
must be something the unit can accomplish. The Storyteller
assesses how much extra work and hassle the chosen task/ban
causes for the target organization from among the options listed
below.
The severity of the drawback determines how many bonus
successes the unit and all of its individual members receive
when taking actions that directly further the enchanted unit's
Policy. If the organization ignores the blessing the Infernal has
given them and does not implement the task/ban within a
week, the power of Cecelyne grinds the organization's fate as
a Shaping effect. This also happens as soon as the task is not
completed on schedule or the taboo is broken. The unit suffers
one automatic botch on a critical action as per a broken Eclipse
oath, and then the magic ends. Applying appropriate counter-magic to the unit leader breaks the effect without any doom, as
does complete disbandment of the unit. If the leader changes,
the new leader becomes the anchor point for applying counter-magic. A change in Policy does not affect the Charm. So long
as the unit keeps to its duty or avoids its ban, the enchantment
continues indefinitely. Units already enchanted by Inauspicious
Benediction of Endeavor can't be targeted with further applica-tions from any character.
Inauspicious Benediction of Endeavor may target an indi-vidual rather than a social unit, though it would not occur to
Cecelyne herself to do so. Affected characters receive the bo-nus successes awarded by the burden toward actions directly
supporting their Motivation. The Infernal may target herself,
though the associated burden is no less onerous.
Inconvenience (2 successes):The duty isn't fun, but it's not
really all that much work either. The primary weight of the bur-den stems from the distastefulness of the task. Example: stop-ping work three times a day at fixed times to ritually venerate
the law of Cecelyne regardless of whatever else is going on. For
taboos, the organization must avoid a particular convenience,
but the loss doesn't really impede operations in any measurable
way. Example: No one in the organization may imbibe alcohol.
An inconvenience that doesn't frustrate members on a regular
basis shouldn't qualify for any bonus.
Challenge (3 successes):The required task demands that
members go out of their way, typically to do something im-moral, abhorrent or both, but nothing that would seriously
conflict with the average member's Intimacies. Example: Sac-rificing a pure white kitten who has never known pain follow-ing the close of business each day; once a month, one member
chosen at random must voluntarily accept being beaten past
unconsciousness by other members. Taboos present equivalent
difficulty and can be broken accidentally by the incautious.
Example: Never kill a locust; never speak any translation of
"Unconquered Sun."
Hardship (4 successes):The duty or ban seriously impacts
the day to day operations of the organization, forcing it to cover
up activities that would certainly attract immediate censure
from the public and external authorities. Examples: The slow
bleeding death of one unblemished baby who has never seen a
Calibration assures one month of good fortune; never thank a
god or a god's priest for anything, even with hollow or ironic
courtesy.

Spoiler: Revised watered down version proposal

Inauspicious benediction of endeavor
Hell Of burrowing Maggots ●●●●●
Essence 2 to purchase
By interacting with the head of organization and with their willing agreement. The Infernal spends 5 essence and scribes an edict of the Hell's, that the organization is to follow, or a taboo to avoid, to invoke the blessing of the Hell's. Failure to follow the edict will cause an automatic botch on the organizations work within the month of it being broken.
The infernal may bless up to their essence number of organizations.
The organization so blessed gains automatic successes to its members activities when functioning as a member of the organization, comparable to the degree of severity of the edict. Automatic successes may not exceed the Infernals Essence Rating -1 even if they declare the edict as a higher level then their essence, If later infernal raises their Essence rating more success will then be granted.
Inconvenience (2 successes):The duty isn't fun, but it's not
really all that much work either. The primary weight of the bur-den stems from the distastefulness of the task. Example: stop-ping work three times a day at fixed times to ritually venerate
the law of the Hells regardless of whatever else is going on. For
taboos, the organization must avoid a particular convenience,
but the loss doesn't really impede operations in any measurable
way. Example: No one in the organization may imbibe alcohol.
An inconvenience that doesn't frustrate members on a regular
basis shouldn't qualify for any bonus.
Challenge (3 successes):The required task demands that
members go out of their way, typically to do something im-moral, abhorrent or both, but nothing that would seriously
conflict with the average member's Intimacies. Example: Sac-rificing a pure white kitten who has never known pain follow-ing the close of business each day; once a month, one member
chosen at random must voluntarily accept being beaten past
unconsciousness by other members. Taboos present equivalent
difficulty and can be broken accidentally by the incautious.
Example: Never kill a locust; never speak any translation of
"Unconquered Sun."
Hardship (4 successes):The duty or ban seriously impacts
the day to day operations of the organization, forcing it to cover
up activities that would certainly attract immediate censure
from the public and external authorities. Examples: The slow
bleeding death of one unblemished baby who has never seen a
wnter assures one month of good fortune; never thank a
god or a god's priest for anything, even with hollow or ironic
courtesy.

 

[firefrog600]

Sure.
Shares a lot with them though.
We'll see.

Most things =/= All things.
Butcher also explicitly denied that something like Harry Potter could exist under his cosmology.
You are advancing an No Limits Fallacy here.

Circling back, lemme repeat this:
We have evidence of two different types of magic robots in the canon Dresdenverse: both Mai's stone dogs that the White Council uses for security at meetings, and a classic golem that murdered a bunch of people in a short story.

We've seen a magic doom laser used as a cyber/bioimplant by a supernatural in the latest book.
The Fomor implement biomods on their servitors and slaves pretty much routinely.
The Dresdenverse is no stranger to mundane and magical wonder.

But there is NO evidence of any magic shields.
So far, at least.
Butcher may come up with one in the future.

---

@Goldfish
It just occurred to me:

This is breaking our implicit word and setting up an explicit clash with Charity if and when we get caught.
Because we are still grounded. Its risking the goodwill from banked good behavior we have already banked for whats ultimately something that can wait a week for summer holidays. That will have implications for a lot of other actions.

Keep this in mind.

Click to shrink...

I mean he also says other than a possible emissary we aren't ever going to see jade court vampires as their isolationists the worlds large and hades vault has a bunch of shit harry didn't touch. I assume a lot of things exist you talking about shields like their so fucking rare is fucking weird like harrys enchanted armbands and staffs fairly sure someone could do a shield if they wanted probably wouldn't be very easy or useful compared to just magical shield stuff for a wizard though. Artifacts of some kind or another exist fucking everywhere though.

Edit: Breaking our word though is annoying and sets a bad precedent even if in goldfishes eyes its probably something they just didn't notice more than an intended promise breaking.

 

[Goldfish]

It just occurred to me:
This is breaking our implicit word and setting up an explicit clash with Charity if and when we get caught.
Because we are still grounded. Its risking the goodwill from banked good behavior we have already banked for whats ultimately something that can wait a week for summer holidays. That will have implications for a lot of other actions.

Keep this in mind.

Click to shrink...

I realized that, but it seemed like an IC thing for Molly to do.

If y'all voted for my plan without taking that into account, I'm willing to change it for a different option. Maybe we can get Michael to take us to McAnally's or something else?

 

[firefrog600]

I realized that, but it seemed like an IC thing for Molly to do.

If y'all voted for my plan without taking that into account, I'm willing to change it for a different option. Maybe we can get Michael to take us to McAnally's or something else?

Click to shrink...

kinda she did make a promise though and ooc I really really really don't want to get in the habit of breaking promises this is very important in this setting. Also you know fucks with our future already shit credibility with them and breaking a promise with the guy whose promised to teach us right now is probably very stupid on our part like very very stupid. Also how much does molly actually lie as compared to just refusing?

Edit: Dragonparadox does that mercy power allows us to let a fae lie does not lying count as a compulsion for them?

 

[Artemis1992]

I realized that, but it seemed like an IC thing for Molly to do.

If y'all voted for my plan without taking that into account, I'm willing to change it for a different option. Maybe we can get Michael to take us to McAnally's or something else?

Click to shrink...

I was aware of what I voted.

 

[firefrog600]

Like its really really really dumb she wants to learn from michael and that stuff was contingent on her listening and keeping promises its not even been what 3 days since we made said promise? Molly knows she fucked up very recently and breaking promises is such a shit thing to do in this setting.

Edit: Like I get shes a somewhat rash teenager is she really that dumb though?

 

[DragonParadox]

Like its really really really dumb she wants to learn from michael and that stuff was contingent on her listening and keeping promises its not even been what 3 days since we made said promise? Molly knows she fucked up very recently and breaking promises is such a shit thing to do in this setting.

Click to shrink...

Keep in mind this is not a setting to her, this is her life. In the course of this life her mother extracted from her a promise she did not want to give and punished her for, again as far as Molly is concerned, trying to help people in need. If you guys want to follow it to the letter and the spirit that is fine, but she is not going to do that because abstract metaphysics say Promises are Important. The only person near her that would even think of making the argument is Usum... and he is both a demon and bound to serve the will of the Chosen.

 

[mastigos]

It goes bigger than that, the Venatori are guys with guns and books, their only common superpower is knowing stuff and no one makes a fuss as long as they play by the rules when it comes to the rest of the mortals

Click to shrink...

Plus there's that bit where for some factions, blotting something out from memory IS the weapon

 

[firefrog600]

Keep in mind this is not a setting to her, this is her life. In the course of this life her mother extracted from her a promise she did not want to give and punished her for, again as far as Molly is concerned, trying to help people in need. If you guys want to follow it to the letter and the spirit that is fine, but she is not going to do that because abstract metaphysics say Promises are Important. The only person near her that would even think of making the argument is Usum... and he is both a demon and bound to serve the will of the Chosen.

Click to shrink...

in fairness we were fine with about 80% of what she wanted it was that 20% we resented. Also you know its still really stupid even in mollys mind I imagine as shes going out to see friends she would be allowed to see in a week at the cost of possible training and having a fight when she gets home.

did you see the compulsion question about fae?

Edit: By the way I don't actually think said metaphysics matter as much to us cause some future powers actually let us bypass them in certain ways I just think its integral to others and kills our potential rep.

Plus there's that bit where for some factions, blotting something out from memory IS the weapon

Click to shrink...

uhh they don't literally wipe the memory of it they murder, erase, scheme, then wait a long long time to see if its really gone then erase it from that one persons mind. unless your talking about someone else? unless you mean in a less literal sense in which case yes information wars are a thing and many even spread info so things don't stop existing somehow.

 

[Earth-Destroyer]

[x] Plan Money and training offers.
-[x] Use the school library to try and research something
--[x] Where to sell high quality art work to big name clients.
-[x] X Make something to sell (write in what; can be taken multiple times)
-[x] X Make something to sell (write in what; can be taken multiple times)
-[x] X Make something to sell (write in what; can be taken multiple times)
--[x] Wood Carvings 1, Landscape paintings 2
-[x] Visit Rosie in the Hospital
-[x] Take up Brother Divsimar on that offer of training (will require convincing Charity)
-[x] High Tech may blow up in the presence of wizards, but they aren't the only ones in the know, see if you can find some stuff about the supernatural world online
-[x] Hang out with your friends
-[x] Go to Bock Ordered Books alone, you do not need a chaperone in a book store

 

[AmeliaNyoom]

So they would no longer say frenzy in order to feed if hungry nor would they take too much in the heat of passion, but a White Court's ability to jump 50 ft in the air or something has to get energy from somewhere.

Click to shrink...

So if it takes away the hunger can the vampire avoid overdrawing from the human and just leave them extremely tired and in need of a good meal instead of dead?

 

[DragonParadox]

So if it takes away the hunger can the vampire avoid overdrawing from the human and just leave them extremely tired and in need of a good meal instead of dead?

Click to shrink...

Yes, they will always take as much as they need, a vampire in this state could even refuse to feed until they starved, though given that this would be spiritual starvation the results would be... gruesome. Under all but the most extreme circumstances they vampire will feed before actually starving.

 

[firefrog600]

Yes, they will always take as much as they need, a vampire in this state could even refuse to feed until they starved, though given that this would be spiritual starvation the results would be... gruesome. Under all but the most extreme circumstances they vampire will feed before actually starving.

Click to shrink...

in fairness while its part of them its only a portion of their soul if that like as far as I know the hunger could literally be some kind of minor demon bonded to their soul.

also could the charm allows a fae to lie?