Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

I know that I won't convince you, but almost everything you said is wrong. I'll concentrate on the efficiency. I have provided the rough calclulation above. Please note that I have given a handicap of at least six to nine orders of magnitude there and already accounted for magic efficiency. It's just not feasible at all. It's also very very trackable, both during the process (due to radiation being produced), and later. Because yes, gold is trackable through impurities. Perfect purity is, while physically possible, not something anyone uses. And once you start selling in the range of tens of billions dollars (and that's the only range which matters, where art production becomes less efficient), people will notice. People will check it. And people will know that something is wrong.

As I said, I know that nothing I say will convince you, but nucleosynthesis, even magically assisted one, is completely unfeasible.
 
I know that I won't convince you, but almost everything you said is wrong. I'll concentrate on the efficiency. I have provided the rough calclulation above. Please note that I have given a handicap of at least six to nine orders of magnitude there and already accounted for magic efficiency. It's just not feasible at all. It's also very very trackable, both during the process (due to radiation being produced), and later. Because yes, gold is trackable through impurities. Perfect purity is, while physically possible, not something anyone uses. And once you start selling in the range of tens of billions dollars (and that's the only range which matters, where art production becomes less efficient), people will notice. People will check it. And people will know that something is wrong.

As I said, I know that nothing I say will convince you, but nucleosynthesis, even magically assisted one, is completely unfeasible.
Got any sources? I know of many stories on which gold is easy to melt down into new forms and make more difficult to trace, but I doubt your claims are based on nothing so...

Provide them? I'm gonna go look up gold tracking information myself at the moment.
 
Votes tied.
Adhoc vote count started by Yzarc on Aug 3, 2022 at 1:15 AM, finished with 107 posts and 33 votes.

  • [X] Because I'm not ready for the weight of being a teacher. And you're eleven. When you're eighteen and if you still want to; we'll go talk to mom and dad.
    [X] You know what? Fine, but dad gets to veto which subjects I am allowed to teach you.
    [X] Tell him to get dads permission, then we'll talk.
    -[X] What you teach doesn't need to be something relating to combat. "Utility" knowledge is something you could teach relatively safely without putting temptation of going out to fight in front of them.
    [X] Maybe you could do something for him eventually
    [X] Tell him to get dads permission, then we'll talk.
    [X] Because I'm not ready for the weight of being a teacher. And you're thirteen. When you're eighteen and if you still want to; we'll go talk to mom and dad.
    [X] You need to speak with dad about it. Something for self defense and fitness wouldn't be out of place, but they will not ever deliberately seek out danger. And if you catch a whiff of them trying to be superheroes or something you'll be very creative in your punishment.
    [X] Because I can't teach what I now am
    [X] Refuse that's crazy, yes even then Usum
    -[X] A regular human in my place today would be dead now. Not maybe dead, certainly dead. We took enough damage to kill a mortal. Even a well-trained human with a few powers through demonic possession might very well be dead. And these were not particularly dangerous foes compared to what's out there.
    [X] You know what? Fine, but dad gets to veto which subjects I am allowed to teach you.
    -[X] What you teach doesn't need to be something relating to combat. "Utility" knowledge is something you could teach relatively safely without putting temptation of going out to fight in front of them.
 

Found this wikipedia article on gold fingerprinting.

This is pretty good. It's not easy though. Not easy at all.

And they would have to match our gold to an existing source or profile.

Good to know the existence of, and it seems like gold laundering is a constant battle the government is engaged in. On an international scale.

Its probably plenty safe if we ask Marcone to launder it or keep our sales small.

On to gemstones! Also hopefully yog turned up some cool stuff.

Edit:
Havent had much luck with gemstones honestly.
 
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Got any sources? I know of many stories on which gold is easy to melt down into new forms and make more difficult to trace, but I doubt your claims are based on nothing so...

Provide them? I'm gonna go look up gold tracking information myself at the moment.
Gold fingerprinting is a thing. I know (including from experience) that at least some of the methods used can get you better than 1 ppm (particles per million) precision. This is how stuff like ban on trading Russian gold can be enforced quite easily. You can, theoretically, refine gold to be "perfectly" pure, but the complexity of the process will make it unprofitable to sale.

However, even if we discard the "it can and will be tracked, once we start making serious sales" reasoning, there's still "how much can we produce" part. Previously I did a calculation. It was overly optimistic and unrealistic. Let's see how gold can be synthesized. I will be concentrating on gold for the sake of simplicity, as I don't have time or energy to describe every possible chain reaction for every synthetically produced metal.

The most common type of synthesis is from mercury. Wikipedia also speaks of bismuth into gold technique as the closest one that ever came to industrial production.

For mercury into gold, I have this quotation (and no, I won't be going through the whole paper in detail):
Assuming a cylindrical mercury tube with 6.8cm diameter that contains about 30kg of natural mercury and 40g of Hg-196, the production rate of Au-197 is evaluated as about 500g/75EFPD that is equivalent to 500mg/year.
That's half a gram per year, using RSG-GAS reactor. The reactor produces 30 MW of heat. Assuming linear scaling, the most powerful reactor in the world is most powerful reactor in the world Kashiwazaki-Kariwa Nuclear Power Plant, Japan, sitting at roughly 8 GW power production. That's 267 times larger that RGS-GAS. So, it could give us 133.5 grams per year. Assuming magical efficiency, that's 1 kg per year. That's not much, won't you say?

And, oh yeah, we would also need to buy mercury in industrial quantities, which would absolutely put you on a lot of watch lists.

Now, let's talk markets. First of all, we want to decide, what numbers are we talking about? Do we want to get millions of dollars? Tens of millions? Billions? Tens of billions?

If we are talking anything below billions annually, especially if we are talking one-off productions, then art is better. It just plain is. It's more legal, invites less scrutiny, gives us more social benefits, including quite possibly cult ratings. If we are talking billions and making it a cornerstone of our future organization's wealth, then yes, refined material production might be a way to go (though, personally, I would say pharmaceuticals and organic synthesis might work better), but for that we would need to establish a cover, and have appropriate licenses and such. And for seed money in the tens and hundreds of millions, jewelry and art pieces and gems are better and easier to explain.
 
Honestly your making art sound pretty appealing. Though I'm leaning towards aftermarket vehicle mods of theres a buisness for that in Chicago.

I'm less than convinced the FBI or whoever would bust out the gold spectrograph for what does appear to be a truly insignificant amount of the metal.

I'm more a less willing to assume the math on mercury lead gold conversion is also accurate, even assuming demonic efficiency.

Would be a very fun afternoon though. We might be able to ask the crown of eyes how to synthesize gold with alchemy (occult 5) instead of just science as well. Not likely to be a large jump in profitability, but it would be really funny to hear all the spirits of dead alchemists cry out in despair.

I do want gold plated stuff though. Even better of we make our own gold.

You are pretty correct about arts benefits. Its not easy to make it big though. Not at all. Even if your product is divine.
 

Found this wikipedia article on gold fingerprinting.

This is pretty good. It's not easy though. Not easy at all.

And they would have to match our gold to an existing source or profile.

Good to know the existence of, and it seems like gold laundering is a constant battle the government is engaged in. On an international scale.

Its probably plenty safe if we ask Marcone to launder it or keep our sales small.

On to gemstones! Also hopefully yog turned up some cool stuff.

Edit:
Havent had much luck with gemstones honestly.

I mean if you guys are willing to work with Marcone there are much easier ways to make money out of that being an Infernal Exalt, just saying. I don't even just mean doing something violent. You have occult 5, Marcone would pay good money to have that on hand for consulting.

Anyway vote closed. Let's see what the next turn vote looks like.
Adhoc vote count started by Yzarc on Aug 3, 2022 at 1:15 AM, finished with 107 posts and 33 votes.

  • [X] Because I'm not ready for the weight of being a teacher. And you're eleven. When you're eighteen and if you still want to; we'll go talk to mom and dad.
    [X] You know what? Fine, but dad gets to veto which subjects I am allowed to teach you.
    [X] Tell him to get dads permission, then we'll talk.
    -[X] What you teach doesn't need to be something relating to combat. "Utility" knowledge is something you could teach relatively safely without putting temptation of going out to fight in front of them.
    [X] Maybe you could do something for him eventually
    [X] Tell him to get dads permission, then we'll talk.
    [X] Because I'm not ready for the weight of being a teacher. And you're thirteen. When you're eighteen and if you still want to; we'll go talk to mom and dad.
    [X] You need to speak with dad about it. Something for self defense and fitness wouldn't be out of place, but they will not ever deliberately seek out danger. And if you catch a whiff of them trying to be superheroes or something you'll be very creative in your punishment.
    [X] Because I can't teach what I now am
    [X] Refuse that's crazy, yes even then Usum
    -[X] A regular human in my place today would be dead now. Not maybe dead, certainly dead. We took enough damage to kill a mortal. Even a well-trained human with a few powers through demonic possession might very well be dead. And these were not particularly dangerous foes compared to what's out there.
    [X] You know what? Fine, but dad gets to veto which subjects I am allowed to teach you.
    -[X] What you teach doesn't need to be something relating to combat. "Utility" knowledge is something you could teach relatively safely without putting temptation of going out to fight in front of them.


The vote is not tied because the 11 and 13 votes are the same barring my typo from the update.
 
I mean if you guys are willing to work with Marcone there are much easier ways to make money out of that being an Infernal Exalt, just saying. I don't even just mean doing something violent. You have occult 5, Marcone would pay good money to have that on hand for consulting.
Thats probably our best option in a lot of ways.

But scheming is fun.
 
Winning Vote
Adhoc vote count started by Yzarc on Aug 3, 2022 at 1:15 AM, finished with 107 posts and 33 votes.

  • [X] Because I'm not ready for the weight of being a teacher. And you're eleven. When you're eighteen and if you still want to; we'll go talk to mom and dad.
    [X] You know what? Fine, but dad gets to veto which subjects I am allowed to teach you.
    [X] Tell him to get dads permission, then we'll talk.
    -[X] What you teach doesn't need to be something relating to combat. "Utility" knowledge is something you could teach relatively safely without putting temptation of going out to fight in front of them.
    [X] Maybe you could do something for him eventually
    [X] Tell him to get dads permission, then we'll talk.
    [X] Because I'm not ready for the weight of being a teacher. And you're thirteen. When you're eighteen and if you still want to; we'll go talk to mom and dad.
    [X] You need to speak with dad about it. Something for self defense and fitness wouldn't be out of place, but they will not ever deliberately seek out danger. And if you catch a whiff of them trying to be superheroes or something you'll be very creative in your punishment.
    [X] Because I can't teach what I now am
    [X] Refuse that's crazy, yes even then Usum
    -[X] A regular human in my place today would be dead now. Not maybe dead, certainly dead. We took enough damage to kill a mortal. Even a well-trained human with a few powers through demonic possession might very well be dead. And these were not particularly dangerous foes compared to what's out there.
    [X] You know what? Fine, but dad gets to veto which subjects I am allowed to teach you.
    -[X] What you teach doesn't need to be something relating to combat. "Utility" knowledge is something you could teach relatively safely without putting temptation of going out to fight in front of them.
 
Arc 1 Post 26: Seeker of Wisdom
Seeker of Wisdom

10th of July 2006 A.D.

"Because I'm not ready to be a teacher," you snap as much at Usum's suggestion as at your little brother. "I've known how to do this stuff for less than a week and you want me to teach you stuff?" Or bind cyberpunk devils into my brother, you think at the ever-attentive presence in your mind. Seeing Matthew's crestfallen expression you suddenly remember another person who really wanted to learn stuff, who wanted to make a difference, you might have seen that face in the mirror when you were little more than a year older than he is.

Lost 1 Essence

Reflexively you reach for the fire within, letting it illuminate your path to your next words. "You are thirteen, you shouldn't be learning how to fight monsters, dad wan't learning how to fight monsters at your age. When you are eighteen if you still want this we can talk to mom and dad and see what they think."

"You're not eighteen," he accuses. "And you are not learning anything, you are going out with dad."

Daniel opens his mouth to back you up, but you know it will do far more harm than good for Matthew to feel ganged up on so you speak first: "I was stupid and then I got stupid lucky, win-the-lottery-for-a-year straight lucky."

"You were always meant for great things Gracious Princess of Verdant Flame. Even your failings merely paved the way for the moment for your ascension," Usum says, but you pay him no mind. This isn't about you.

"Look I know five months and five years look a lot alike from where you are standing, but I can't teach you how to shrug off being shot and I can't teach you magic the way most people use it even if you do have a talent..." Which he probably does not you realize. A talent for sorcery exists in the exercise of using it. Without that it would wither on the vine and not be passed on. By the time Matthew had been born mom had well and truly left her gift behind. "So what't left, teaching you how to use a sword? Dad can do that, dad can do that better than me, he actually knows how to teach."

"He won't though, mom'll tell him not to," he replies despondently.

"He will," Daniel cuts in as sure as you feel. "If mom says anything Molly and me'll remind her that we both got lessons when we were your age."

"That's just fencing it's not real," Matthew insists, but you can see he is weakening.

"Nothing is really real until you are in a fight for your life, but that doesn't mean it's a good opening to learning how to hold a weapon," you say dryly.

That gets a sheepish smile tugging at the corner of his mouth. "You just don't want to teach me cool sword tricks," he accuses, though more so he can say he had the last word.

You just shake your head a little in silence, giving it to him.

***​

Monday morning dawns clear and crisp with the smell of rain in the air and the ring of your phone in one ear. Izzy had been worried about you after not being able to get a hold of you yesterday. On the principle that the best lies are the ones with a lot of truth in them you say you followed your dad along on the job to meet with some prospective clients. "Carpentry talk isn't really my cup of tea, but it beats parental super-max."

Gain 4 Essence

"Umhm... I seem to remember a girl who was really good at daring escapes, super-max or no," comes the answer together with the sound of bus wheels screeching to a halt. Izzy doesn't have a car and she lives all the way on River North, in one of the old projects out there.

"Yeah well I don't want to be grounded over summer holidays, sue me," you quip back as you put on the Guns and Roses jacket dad got your for your birthday last year and go out to the Beige Wagon.

"So are you going to be good this week as well?" she asks archly.

What do you do over the last week before the holidays?
You have nine (9) Actions

School
[] Do your homework (Will prepare you for class, in the absence of it Academics rolls to keep your grades up increase by +1 DC; if you do not take it repeatedly you may have to make excuses to the teachers) [Requires 3 AP]
[] Do Extra Credit Work, requires homework (DC for school rolls -1)
[] Use the school library to try and research something
-[] Write in what


Crafting
[] Make protective under-armor (can be taken multiple times)
[] Make a shield of some kind (can be taken multiple times)
[] Make something to sell (write in what; can be taken multiple times)


On the Job
[] Find some place to spar with your dad, you are pretty good with a sword, but it's hard to judge how good when all the opponents you faced are now dead
[] Go see Father Forthill, talk about the Church and its perspective on the supernatural
[] Visit Bock Ordered Books with your dad (if you want to buy something you must take an action to make money)
[] Visit McAnally's Pub with your dad, as transcendentally uncool as that may be

[] Go out with your dad and actually do some good, whether it is (Not available this week)

Social Actions
[] Visit Rosie in the Hospital
[] She might work for Marcone but Grad was really cool and you are curious about her... you remember the number dad dialed to get in touch with Marcone
[] Take up Brother Divsimar on that offer of training (will require convincing Charity)


Research
[] High Tech may blow up in the presence of wizards, but they aren't the only ones in the know, see if you can find some stuff about the supernatural world online

Sneaking Out (Will be done in the evening/at night)
[] Hang out with your friends
[] Go to Bock Ordered Books alone, you do not need a chaperone in a book store
[] Visit McAnally's Pub alone, all the interesting stuff happens at night anyway
[] Try to find this 'Undertown' Harry told you about, it sounds like there are a lot of things down there that need fighting
[] Look for those 'Alphas' who patrol the campus of the University of Chicago, there is no way you are meeting them with your dad in tow
[] Go talk to Harry about the Nazi sorcerers and maybe Detective Greene's vendetta


OOC: After this week we will be moving on to one month turns and also we will be spending XP for the arc.
 
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How much xp have we gotten so far?

Helped with the Red Court Ambush 3 XP (you had really strong back-up)
Swayed Ebeneezar 1 XP (you made a good case; but you had a lot of help including a literal Archangel vouching that you are safe)
Dealt with Gorfel and Company 4 XP (Bonus for no loss of life and for capturing most of them)
Sniper Encounter 2 XP (You did not catch him but you did think to get one of his bullets)
Gorfel Social Fu and investigation 2 XP (you did some good work but the real heavy lifting is still ahead)

That gives you a total of 14 including banked XP
 
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So we can get Essence 2 and a 1 dot favored or unfavored charm, or a new excellency skill

Edit: Or a 2 dot favored charm or 2 favored 1 dot charms.

Edit2: If we don't upgrade our essence we can get a sorcery spell
 
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Well, it depends on what we want.

8xp - E2. So that leaves 6xp to play with.

We could go Rage Recast to get flight for 6xp
or
Ox-Body + Scar Writ - For more survivability for 6xp
or
Viridian Legend Exoskeleton for 4 Soak for 6xp.

Alternatively, we could skip E2 and go Full Survivability in Viridian Legend Exoskeleton+ Ox-Body + Scar Writ for 12xp.
 
So, going out with Dad isn't an option this week, and we need to take enough "easy" actions to represent taking a few days off to let our injuries heal at Exalted speeds.

Other than that… one option we can do is using our mechanics crafting specialty to trick out our car with some stuff that would make it useful in, say, a car chase. Training is also good, especially with those chi people to try and reinvent celestial martial arts, and I'm sure the option to train wouldn't be in there if it wasn't useful. Visiting Rosie is a must, and we should keep up with our homework.

Not sure beyond that, but those are my general thoughts for the start of a plan.
 
I'd like to look less creepy unless I see really good arguments as to everything else on the purchase list being better/more urgent. Narrative effects and all that.
You can also buy up say appearance so you look less creepy.
Just to confirm, going from Appearance 1 to 2 will cost 2 xp? (And 2 to 3 is 3 xp?)
 
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I'd like to look less creepy unless I see really good arguments as to everything else on the purchase list being better/more urgent. Narrative effects and all that.

Just to confirm, going from Appearance 1 to 2 will cost 2 xp? (And 3 to 4 is 3 xp?)

It's an attribute not an ability, that is current rating x 4 so in this case 4 to go up from 1 to 2 and would then be 8 to go from 2 to 3 etc...
 
I'd like to look less creepy unless I see really good arguments as to everything else on the purchase list being better/more urgent. Narrative effects and all that.

Just to confirm, going from Appearance 1 to 2 will cost 2 xp? (And 2 to 3 is 3 xp?)
We nearly died in combat and did fine kn all non-Charity social so far.

That seems like a good argument for more soak over more appearance to me.
 
[X] Plan talking and resting
-[X] Do your homework (Will prepare you for class, in the absence of it Academics rolls to keep your grades up increase by +1 DC; if you do not take it repeatedly you may have to make excuses to the teachers) [Requires 3 AP]
-[X] Go see Father Forthill, talk about the Church and its perspective on the supernatural
-[X] Visit Rosie in the Hospital
-[X] Take up Brother Divsimar on that offer of training (will require convincing Charity)
-[X] Hang out with your friends
-[X] Look for those 'Alphas' who patrol the campus of the University of Chicago, there is no way you are meeting them with your dad in tow
-[X] Go talk to Harry about the Nazi sorcerers and maybe Detective Greene's vendetta
 
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