"[State your Purpose]," words cruelly resonant merge from Harry's mouth. Not the most diplomatic way he could have started this, but being fair to him this is not a language meant for diplomacy
"[To Guard the Way, to Elucidate/Rekindle/Restore the old light when all other light has failed]," comes the reply. "[To Keep Back the Dark/the Maw/the Void]"
"[How do you know when the Dark comes,]" Harry presses. [Possession of Prophecy thread/understanding?]
"[Darkness follows light/Night follows Day]"
Well that is clear as mud, you think annoyed. Maybe this thing just isn't very clever, not every voice out of the deep past can be Usum.
Harry's eyes narrow in sudden suspicion: "[Clarification, Dark is kept back by rekindled Light?]"
"[Negative, Old Dark follows Old Light, Reason for containment. Yet when the Pattern/Circle/Walls fail necessity impels. Night follows Day]"
Now alas you are starting to see the shape of things. If this thing gets loose, something else does too and Shadow-Ra sounds like something the Elders of the Black Court would have affinity to. Maybe Cobler wasn't just here to stop this Exaltation, but to use its connection to find another, the shadow to its light.
What do you do?
[] Ask if there can be light without shadow
[] Ask where or into what the shadow is bound
[] Write in
OOC: So yeah... ever wondered why someone would bind a solar exaltation behind 'only in case of Major Incursion break glass?'.
Oh this situation is hilariously a clusterfuk this exaltation is directly mirrored there is a Dawn and a Dusk here the world breaker General and the World Breaker generals are here. Why God why would you do this why would you let this happen? Though in all seriousness there is an Abyssal and a solar here both of which are sealed and contained within our grasp. Surrounded by enemies that we have to kill anyway. The solar has a release condition that we can meet by finding a proper abyssal. If we can handle the situation neatly enough we could get two exalted allies out of this.
@DragonParadox would an Abyssals, exalted by this exaltation here still give up their name. Because this isn't making a deal at the mouth of Oblivion right before your death this one is already in the world of living. They may still be exalted by being at near death but the never-born or the hole that they made in the world doesn't have the exaltation in it to take the name to begin with.
Oh this situation is hilariously a clusterfuk this exaltation is directly mirrored there is a Dawn and a Daybreak here the world breaker General and the World Breaker generals are here. Why God why would you do this why would you let this happen? Though in all seriousness there is an Abyssal and a solar here both of which are sealed and contained within our grasp. Surrounded by enemies that we have to kill anyway. The solar has a release condition that we can meet by finding a proper abyssal. If we can handle the situation neatly enough we could get two exalted allies out of this.
@DragonParadox would an Abyssals, exalted by this exaltation here still give up their name. Because this isn't making a deal at the mouth of Oblivion right before your death this one is already in the world of living. They may still be exalted by being at near death but the never-born or the hole that they made in the world doesn't have the exaltation in it to take the name to begin with.
Abyssal Exaltations in ExvsWoD can only bound to someone in the act of dying and they slot into the place your Name used to be, that is all I can say without spoilers.
It should be noted that just as Solars are not always the best people Abyssals are not always the worst, they just have powers of transcendent darkness, the obedience of the wicked dead and that which should be dead. They must surround themselves with the trappings of death and never again answer to their living names on pain of being cursed by beings that have been dead and dreaming longer than the earth's been round and spinning.
Do we know if the Deathlords are in any form active?
Because as far as I remember Abyssal Exaltations are tied far tighter to the Deathlords than Infernal Exaltations are to the Yozi/Neverborn.
While Infernal could go rogue comparatively easily, it was far harder for the Abyssals.
This said, if a Deathlord is not actively trying to influence a new Abyssal they can do their own thing far easier.
Edit:
Not Neverborn, looking for the name…
…and remembered: Deathlords.
It should be noted that just as Solars are not always the best people Abyssals are not always the worst, they just have powers of transcendent darkness, the obedience of the wicked dead and that which should be dead. They must surround themselves with the trappings of death and never again answer to their living names on pain of being cursed by beings that have been dead and dreaming longer than the earth's been round and spinning.
Do we know if the Deathlords are in any form active?
Because as far as I remember Abyssal Exaltations are tied far tighter to the Deathlords than Infernal Exaltations are to the Yozi/Neverborn.
While Infernal could go rogue comparatively easily, it was far harder for the Abyssals.
This said, if a Deathlord is not actively trying to influence a new Abyssal they can do their own thing far easier.
Edit:
Not Neverborn, looking for the name…
…and remembered: Deathlords.
Empty darkness... empty night... "And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters," you quote softly Genesis 1:2. "That kind of water?"
You know, the Demon Knight quote is also very much on point for Dresden Files.
"In the beginning, God created the Heavens and the Earth... And the Earth was a formless void, and darkness covered the face of the deep. But the darkness was not empty."
Do we know if the Deathlords are in any form active?
Because as far as I remember Abyssal Exaltations are tied far tighter to the Deathlords than Infernal Exaltations are to the Yozi/Neverborn.
While Infernal could go rogue comparatively easily, it was far harder for the Abyssals.
This said, if a Deathlord is not actively trying to influence a new Abyssal they can do their own thing far easier.
Edit:
Not Neverborn, looking for the name…
…and remembered: Deathlords.
It should be noted that just as Solars are not always the best people Abyssals are not always the worst, they just have powers of transcendent darkness, the obedience of the wicked dead and that which should be dead. They must surround themselves with the trappings of death and never again answer to their living names on pain of being cursed by beings that have been dead and dreaming longer than the earth's been round and spinning.
They do get cursed by those same beings that have been dead and dreaming longer than the earth's been round and spinning every time they save a life, which makes playing one twisted to be good a lot harder than doing the same with an Infernal.
I wonder if that's intended. The nameless curse can be worked around using Holden's crafting system and Regular Magic but that means you're essentially playing whack-a-mole against the neverborn. They curse you with nightmares so you get a pillow that makes it really easy to sleep well, they curse you to track agents of Decay like bugs and scavengers so you make amulets that Ward away vermin so on and so forth. Well if the neverborn have a problem with it they can continue to cope seethe and mauld for the rest of eternity while screaming in agony. The exalted killed you and now your curse doesn't even effect people outside of the exalted.
I can imagine it now a Abyssal with perfection of the grave a beautiful creature of the night the little death in the trappings of the grave. Got an appearance of six got 10 kids a wife all of them call him by his names considers his like Aiden and Dad. He's decked out in amulets that look like little skulls and Engravings. That Ward away ghosts and damping his mystical signature he sleeps great every night on his Enchanted pillows and works in the hospital and the neverborn scream in impotent Agony as they are doomed to do seething coping and maulding. Because you may accept the nameless curse when you get exalted but there's really nothing stopping you from immediately trying to wiggle your way out of that.
The thing about the human sacrifice is... the humans were down with it. I do not think that it is ever implied the Dragon Kings ever dragged them up those temple steps. Seeing as this was a world of perfect and eternal reincarnation you could make the argument that heart extraction was a odd but morally acceptable custom.
Humans were not down with it.
Criminals, rebels,dissidents and escaped slaves were particularly prone to ending up on the sacrificial altars.
I quote:
Humanity remained in its subordinate role for millennia,
living and working in the cities of the Dragon Kings and in
its own cities, which were ruled by distant Dragon Kings.
Because there were more than twenty human beings for
every Dragon King, the reptiles were unable to keep close
track of all of their charges. Many humans fled to Creation's
edges to live free but brutally savage lives.Escapees who
were caught—in fact, all who offended either the laws of
the gods or their reptilian masters—were sacrificed on top of
the Dragon Kings' great solar pyramids. The ancient reptiles
offered up the hearts of the offenders to the Unconquered
Sun then devoured their bodies.
Dragon Kings viewed the first few decades of their new
lives as a period for growth, reflection and, most importantly,
relearning both cultured wisdom and their rules of honor.
The Dragon Kings believed that spending ten or more years
as mindless predators helped to reacquaint them to their
physical bodies and wild origins, while relearning wisdom
and enlightenment gave them a new opportunity to recog-
nize how to lead valiant and admirable lives. Reasoning that
anyone who committed serious crimes had forgotten or never
properly learned these necessary lessons, the Dragon Kings
sacrificed their criminals to the Unconquered Sun. To the
Dragon Kings, hastening a criminal's demise and reincarna-
tion forced her to relearn these lessons and gave her a chance
to rise above her previous incarnation's misdeeds. Though the
Dragon Kings believed these offerings inferior to the fervent
sacrifices of weary or elderly Dragon Kings, the Unconquered
Sun accepted all the hearts sacrificed to him.
While the Dragon Kings ruled humankind, they also
sacrificed human lawbreakers to the Unconquered Sun. Dur-
ing the time of the Solar Deliberative, this practice ceased.
On rare occasions, however, the Chosen of the Sun agreed
that humans who committed egregious crimes against the
Dragon Kings should be put to death in this manner to atone
for their crimes. However, the Lawgivers only permitted
the worst human offenders to be sacrificed by the Dragon
Kings in this manner.
However, criminals were not their only, or even their
preferred, sacrifices. The carnivorous Dragon Kings offered
the hearts of living animals to the Unconquered Sun and,
not infrequently, their own hearts as well. Death was never
something simply accepted by the Dragon Kings. They viewed
it as a denouement to the chapters of their immortal exis-
tences and preferred to meet it on their own terms. Though
some arranged to meet their end hunting dangerous beasts
or carrying out some feat of derring-do, many Dragon Kings
nearing the end of their lives offered up their own hearts
to the Unconquered Sun, asking the priests to make their
deaths holy offerings to their god.
Dragon King sacrifices were often, if not usually volunteers.
The humans never were.
And the sacrifices of human hearts continued, in lessened numbers, even after the Primordial War. Sol didnt mind then, either.
By the time they started to get legitimately insane rather than just eccentric Sol was well and truly hooked on the Games of Divinity. Now one might ask how a being of perfect virtue become addicted, but the Games were older than he was, older and stronger than the concept of virtue. After virtue only existed because the Ebon Dragon wanted to be born as the Shadow of All Things, requiring perfect virtue to embody its opposite
Literally among the first things that the Solar Host did after imprisoning the Yozi was threatening Autochton into enslaving the Jadeborn, his chosen people, who had literally been one of the Solar Host's two surviving allies and the species who had acted as their principal armorers and tech support.
The Great Geas literally broke the species, and enslaved them to the Exalted.
Sol Invictus was around when it happened. Sol did not mediate, and as best as I can recall, actively sided with the Exalted..
Autobot was supposed to be his friend, and had been the person whose innovations had been key to winning the War.
And that was how he and his people were treated.
It was shortly after that when Autobot made his preparations and left Creation.
Sol may have been a paragon to emulate for Solars, but he comes up way short through any sort of modern lens.
Take a look at the first chapter of Compass of Celestial Directions Yu-Shan to see how he and the other Incarnae reorganized Yu-Shan after the War, and all the gods they turned into starmetal.
Too many people have rose-tinted glasses about the dude.
I mean, given how much Hera hates him and the fact she did actually made him do things like that, it is waaaaaaaayyyyyyy more likely he was telling the truth than lying there, so....
Oh, you need to read the full history of events around Iphitus, his sister Iole, and Eurytus their father, who was also Heracles archery tutor. Wikipedia source:
Apollodorus recounted the tale in his Bibliotheca. King Eurytus was an expert archer who taught his sons his knowledge of the bow and arrow. He promised his daughter Iole to whoever could beat him and his sons in an archery contest. The sons shot so well that they beat all the others from the kingdom. Heracles then heard of the prize and eagerly entered the contest, for he desired the maiden. Heracles shot with keenness and even beat Eurytus' scores. It is ironic because Eurytus, in his early years, had taught Heracles to become an archer.[1]
When the king realized that Heracles was winning, he stopped the contest and forbade him to participate. Eurytus was well-aware of Heracles' murder of his previous wife Megara and their children, and was thus afraid that Iole and her offspring by him would suffer the same fate. Eventually, Heracles had won the contest but was not entitled to the prize because of his reputation. Eurytus broke his promise to give his royal daughter to the winner of the archery contest.
Iphitos urged his father to reconsider, but Eurytus did not pay any heed and stood by his decision. Heracles had not left the city yet when Eurytus' mares were run off, presumably by Autolycus, a notorious thief. Iphitos asked Heracles to help him find them, which he agreed to do so. Heracles, in one display of his madness, hurled Iphitos over the city walls, murdering him.[1] According to Diodorus Siculus, it was Heracles himself who drove off the mares of Eurytus in revenge.[4] The hero had failed in his courtship to win Iole.[5]
After the archery contest, Heracles went to Calydon, where, on the steps of the temple, he saw Deianira, Prince Meleager's sister. He forgot about Iole for a while and wooed her, eventually won her over and married her. Heracles, after acquiring a kingdom and in control of an army, went about to kill Eurytus in revenge for not giving up his promised prize.[6] Hyginus added that Heracles not only murdered Eurytus, but also slew Iole's brothers and other relatives as well.[7]
The hero plundered Oechalia and overthrew its walls,[1] while Iole threw herself down from the high city wall to escape. It turned out that the garment she was wearing opened up and acted like a parachute, which ensured her soft and safe descent.[5] Heracles took Iole as a captive.[6] His wife, Deianira, did not want Iole to become Heracles' concubine but she forebore to object and tolerated it temporarily.[3]
TLDR
After killing Iphitus, he murdered his father and brothers, sacked his city, and took his sister as a captive concubine.
Hercules/Heracles the Greek hero was very much not the Disney hero version that is so beloved in modern society.
He was persecuted by Hera, to be sure, but the man himself was a vengeful dick with a documented history of monstrous behavior to those he deemed his enemies, or who denied him something he wanted.
And its very deliberate that the creators of Exalted used him and his fellow Greek heroes as templates for Exalted.
Great and terrible are appropriate descriptors for both.
Sorry for pinging you twice over the same post the first one's already really long but I've got a quote directly for why he started the war as well as my point about him not liking being witness to countless atrocities and not being able to do anything about it.
Thats cherrypicking from the book Glories of the Unconquered Sun, which naturally paints Ignis Divine in the best light.
Look at the rest of the books in the line. Its very clear that it has fuckall to do with righteousness, and everything to do with freedom to act as he would for himself and the gods, as well as naked power.
Just to quote two different books:
Creation was too complicated to maintain or sustain
itself, however, and their games did not permit long lapses
of attention. Therefore, the Primordials created the gods to
protect and maintain Creation, leaving it in their charge.
WHAT CAME AFTER In time, the gods grew discontent at their slavery.
They could raise no hand against their creators, however,
so they empowered mere mortals to be both their weapons
and their champions. These chosen mortals, these Exalted,
then rose up and made war against the Primordials on the
gods' behalf. Strife wracked Creation, and many things
were destroyed that would not be made again. The fi ve
great elementals were unmade by the Primordials lest they
should serve as a weapon against them. The pre-human
race of the Dragon Kings died by the millions, and those
who survived had no choice but to retreat into a techno-
magical state of torpor until a future Age.
As the Games of Divinity enthralled the Primordials, they
ceded increasing amounts of power to the gods. For their part,
the gods tired of servitude and coveted both Yu-Shan and the
Games of Divinity. When the gods began plotting rebellion,
they were joined by two Primordials, Gaia and Autochthon.
The former was persuaded by her new lover Luna, the latter
because the other Primordials used him as a servant, mocked
his infirmity and causally destroyed his creations.
While the rest of the conspirators plotted and schemed
in vain, Autochthon devised a plan to use nascent humanity
as their greatest weapon. He designed a means of imbuing
mortals with divine power and gave this secret to the gods
so they could make an army of champions. While the gods
created the Exalted, Autochthon called upon the Jadeborn to
supply them with weapons and armor. Thanks to the combined
might of their innate strength and the power of their wondrous
panoplies, the Exalted triumphed over the Primordials, and
the results of this war transformed Creation. By the end of this
war, most other Primordial races lay in ruin. The Dragon Kings
were greatly reduced in number and no longer dominated the
surface, the Lintha were broken and on the run, and the alaun
and many others were rendered extinct. Yet the Mountain
Folk continued to rule their subterranean empire.
Unfortunately, the Solar Exalted feared the might of
the Jadeborn, feared having the same weapons they sup-
plied the Chosen turned against them, and they prayed
to their Celestial patron to protect them. In response, the
Unconquered Sun ordered Autochthon to magically bind
the creatures he considered to be his children into their
underground realm, warning the Great Maker that the gods
and the Exalted would destroy the Mountain Folk if he did
not. Autochthon reluctantly complied and laid the Great
Geas on his people. Soon after, fearing that the Exalted
would turn against him, Autochthon gathered his human
followers within his vast form and departed from Creation
into the deepest folds of Elsewhere.
The preponderance of evidence very much indicates that viewing Sol as some sort of all-benevolent sky daddy is very wrong, and misses the point of his characterization.
His conceptual model isnt supposed to be Jesus or Buddha. He's supposed to be Lucifer.
To be clear, Abyssals who save lifes or do other anti-Neverborn things only take pretty moderate curses from that.
Temporarily getting weaker versions of some vampiric weaknesses, or drawing negative attention from Spectres (crazy ghosts who hate anything living anyway) are no big deal.
Neither are the moderate flaws that make them temporarily creepier or give them nightmares.
COMMENTARY
Called it that Cobbler was a magic-user.
And we get an explanation for WHY the statue viewed Cobbler with regret in the previous update.
This makes it clear that the Black Court Antediluvian who turned him did it deliberately, and quite likely had that resurrection ritual primed because he was a valuable pawn.
Cobbler was almost certainly sent here by his Sire.
I cant really imagine any scenario where they could have bound an Abyssal Exaltation without the cooperation of the person who was bearing it in the first place. Dark is not necessarily evil with Exalts, any more than light is necessarily good.
I just have zero confidence in our ability to stop them showing up.
I dont think we can assume that the other Solaroid was a Dusk though. Could be any other Caste.
Regardless, an Abyssal loose would wield authority over the Black Court, just like a major necromancer would.
Which would explain why a Blampire would deliberately try to interfere with anything that might bring one back; they likely dont want one running around, any more than they wanted any necromancers to get their hands on The Word of Kemmler.
Whether or not it suits the Outsiders, Im unsure.
Starborn calling the disk and spear down?
Bears strong resemblances to the story we got about the comet thing that got diverted by the fae lord , which showed up on the Norway-Russia border.
The preponderance of evidence very much indicates that viewing Sol as some sort of all-benevolent sky daddy is very wrong, and misses the point of his characterization.
His conceptual model isnt supposed to be Jesus or Buddha. He's supposed to be Lucifer.
One I was answering bronze tongues questions about his motivations for the war and in general. Two I'm supposed to listen to the rest of the game line about this specific God's motivations and not the book about the God that is written from the omniscient perspective, okay sure.
Also I failed to see where I said or even implied he was all benevolent. Also no he's not supposed to be Lucifer at least not just Lucifer because why bother giving him temperance or compassion at that point. Also it was not the great geas the broke the mountain folk. It yet again was the usurpation without any influx of resources or troops from the top the underground Horrors that come from the buried layers of creation ate away at the civilization of the mountain Folk slowly dooming them to a slow death because the sidereals are cowards. Now you can claim that that the great geas did that but that's not what the intent or the actuality of it meant.
I'm just going to say this the Unconquered Sun is a mass of near unending power held together by endlessly conflicting virtue. The idea that he is faultless or generally good even is up for debate but the idea that he cannot feel Compassion or that he is honorless or without righteousness in his action is false. Because to exist in a solid form he needs to be that way.
The gun is a mundane revolver from about the beginning of the 20th century. Keep in mind the disk is mostly gold which is a soft metal, the sunburst inside which is certainly not gold was not damaged, but by breaking the unity of the circle it made it harder for the thing to communicate.
Do we know if the Deathlords are in any form active?
Because as far as I remember Abyssal Exaltations are tied far tighter to the Deathlords than Infernal Exaltations are to the Yozi/Neverborn.
While Infernal could go rogue comparatively easily, it was far harder for the Abyssals.
This said, if a Deathlord is not actively trying to influence a new Abyssal they can do their own thing far easier.
Edit:
Not Neverborn, looking for the name…
…and remembered: Deathlords.
Deathlords are supposed to be all gone. As is the Great Curse.
Neverborn are supposed to be gone as well, but that may not be true here.
The only remnants of Creation That Was that are supposed to have survived in canon ExWoD are Autochton and Grandmother.
That may not be true in this AU, mind. But I dont think the existence of the Thousand Hells of Yomi Wan is consistent with the survival of actual Creation-era Deathlords, or the remnants thereof.
Emma-O, Mikaboshi et al wouldnt have survived having someone like the Dowager around.
Worth noting that Holden thinks what he stuck in their rules is equivalent to adding the great curse back:
the aByssal exalted
The Abyssal Exalted already have a curse to deal with. Even if you're re-introducing the Great Curse, they don't get anything new to worry about
The reason he considers it that way is because he's a bit of a combat monkey but also some of the curses you can get from violating the nameless curse can get you killed like instantly if you if it happens at the wrong time.
Being struck with a increase in difficulty of two on every action in a scene with combat where you save someone can very easily lead to your death never mind if you actually fall asleep from that curse. Now some of them are functionally speaking nothing Burgers as far as curse go but the sunlight and the sleeping and holy symbol curses are range from mildly inconvenient to deadly.
To be frank the most important thing an Abyssal can do no matter the circumstances to is to guard themself from the power of the neverborn as quickly as they can because you can inadvertently save someone and they will curse you to possibly death.
Doesn't have to be for her personal use if she can't make it work. All of the Abyssals are a good fit for her faction, but if the particular one involved is inverted caste as well as solaroid type it'd be particularly appropriate:
midnight
Deadspeakers, death cultists, and dark messiahs who long ago built ancestor cults and promoted the rulership of the dead over the living. Midnights often come from the ranks of nihilistic philosophers, anar- chists, protestors, and those otherwise focused on the downfall of prevailing societies.
• Caste Abilities: Animal Ken, Empathy, Expression, Intimidation, Law, Leadership, Performance, Survival
• Anima: By touching one of the living and spend- ing 1 Essence, the Midnight transforms her into a bea- con shining out to the dead, who find this living sac- rifice's blood, Chi, and emotions twice as nourishing as they might otherwise be (sucking out one point's worth of blood grants a vampire two blood points, for example). This sacrificial brand lasts for one full cy- cle of the moon. When her anima is flaring, the Will- power rating of all those who choose to oppose her is treated as being one lower than its true rating for all purposes other than determining how many points of Willpower her opponents can possess.
"Nihilistic death cultist" is a good description for Sandra and people like her. That entire caste is basically built for outsider pawns.
Which isn't surprising considering the first thing Holden says on them:
Abyssal Exaltation is nothing more and nothing less than a bullet fired at the heart of the cosmos thou- sands years ago. Since the opening of the Black Vault, it is once more in motion, finding individuals of great potential cut tragically short and transforming them into agents of extinction
Doesn't have to be for her personal use if she can't make it work. All of the Abyssals are a good fit for her faction, but if the particular one involved is inverted caste as well as solaroid type it'd be particularly appropriate:
ExWoD 162.
"Nihilistic death cultist" is a good description for Sandra and people like her. That entire caste is basically built for outsider pawns.
Which isn't surprising considering the first thing Holden says on them:
They're not inherently required to be evil, but I think it's a bad plan to bet on Drizzt Du'Dusk-Caste and his family.
Without the death Lords they literally just operate on the same methodology of picking as solar shards do except the person needs to be on the brink of death. Evil doesn't even come into it it's not looking for an evil person. They're an agent of extinction because they're attacks use Oblivion in them every soul shredded by them draws them closer to Oblivion. They're not agents of extinction because they're evil their agents of extinction because it's in their power.
