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Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

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[X] You cannot share any names with her at this time
-[X] Earning the Order's trust was no small matter, so we won't risk damaging that by handing out their information without first learning whether they wish to share it. If they do, then we'll reach out and give Murphy the contact details for someone.
 
[X] Call Anna, and convince her to provide order's addresses to Murphy.
-[X] Use Empathy excellency and Without Honor Without Hope to sell her on letting Murphy help
-[X] STUNT: You step out of the car and into the invigorating chill of winter. Staying within lieutenant Murphy's earshot, you dial Anna: "Anna, hello. Has dr. Jackson called you yet? She was attacked tonight. She's ok, I got her to safety. There is likely to be trouble for some time. I am here with lieutenant Murphy of Chicago Special Investigations division. She's good people. Saved my life several times. She wants to help. I trust her, and her people helped me before too, with stuff like providing security to Lydia's cemetery party. Can I put you on speaker so you can work things out? I don't want to betray your trust, and I'm still new to the group, so I'm calling you. It'll really make you guys safer. We'll arrange formal meet and greet later, when things have settled down"
 
BronzeTongue said:
They aren't aware of the particulars, but a relatively benign example would be the Library or Daedalus getting ahold of their names and showing up to recruit them. People like the pathfinders or even Madrigal's own plot would also be interested in information like that, and those two instances being cleaned up doesn't mean there won't be more later.
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That is a good point. I added a little something.

[X] You cannot share any names with her at this time
-[X] Earning the Order's trust was no small matter, so we won't risk damaging that by handing out their information without first learning whether they wish to share it. If they do, then we'll reach out and give Murphy the contact details for someone.
-[X] Would that information stay within the CPD or go further to, let's say the librarians?

Murphy is good people, we know little about the librarians.
 
[X] You cannot share any names with her at this time
-[X] Earning the Order's trust was no small matter, so we won't risk damaging that by handing out their information without first learning whether they wish to share it. If they do, then we'll reach out and give Murphy the contact details for someone.
-[X] Would that information stay within the CPD or go further to, let's say the librarians?
 
[X] Yog

I don't want to unilaterally reveal the order membership to Murphy, but I also don't think it's a good idea to just punt on the choice. Because if we go with the vote to ask the order, then the next update will be "you ask them, and they ask you for advice." :)

So I like Yog's option here. We get to steer the order to working with the authorities that can be trusted but we don't choose for them since we are not their leader, more of a patron.
 
fictionfan said:
That is why we introduce her to Olivia. It's the best introduction she could have.
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Not by outing her here and now. Especially since you outright stated the goal here was to let Murphy dig at them until she has the whole list:

fictionfan said:
I don't want to give all the names mostly out of a respect for privacy, but I strongly suspect that if we give Murphy one name she will get the others fairly quickly. She is a cop and most Ordo members don't have Exalted level willpower.

I want to introduce her to Olivia because I expect it to put their interactions on the right foot. Olivia's taxes for protection idea is basically hitting Murphy's intimates buttons with a hammer.
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Which is one of the scenarios they'd be worried about in the first place.

You're not respecting their privacy, you're deflecting responsibility in a way that doesn't even successfully shield us from blame if the Ordo is upset by us exposing them.
 
LightLan said:
That's not a phone conversation, especially with Murphy listening to one half of it.
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Why not? And even if it isn't, we can spare an hour to go visit them in person, and get back to Murphy.

Still, that's a point. SO

[X] Call Anna, and convince her to provide order's addresses to Murphy.
-[X] Use Empathy excellency and Without Honor Without Hope to sell her on letting Murphy help
-[X] STUNT: You step out of the car and into the invigorating chill of winter. Staying within lieutenant Murphy's earshot, you dial Anna: "Anna, hello. Has dr. Jackson called you yet? She was attacked tonight. She's ok, I got her to safety. There is likely to be trouble for some time. I am here with lieutenant Murphy of Chicago Special Investigations division. She's good people. Saved my life several times. She wants to help. I trust her, and her people helped me before too, with stuff like providing security to Lydia's cemetery party. Can I put you on speaker so you can work things out? I don't want to betray your trust, and I'm still new to the group, so I'm calling you. It'll really make you guys safer. We'll arrange formal meet and greet later, when things have settled down. Or, if you want, I can come visit you and we'll talk in person"
 
Yog said:
We have a cellphone. We can call them right now.
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Calling and spamming excellencies at one person is still pushing pretty hard. I'd be game for convincing them to talk in person and then work out what they want to do, but throwing 12 successes at getting one member to crack is just playing a shell game with who we want to split the blame with.
 
BronzeTongue said:
Which is one of the scenarios they'd be worried about in the first place.

You're not respecting their privacy, you're deflecting responsibility in a way that doesn't even successfully shield us from blame if the Ordo is upset by us exposing them.
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Well yes I rather want the para net to happen the sooner the better and Olivia introduction is the best way to make that happen.
 
Yog said:
Why not? And even if it isn't, we can spare an hour to go visit them in person, and get back to Murphy.

Still, that's a point. SO

[X] Call Anna, and convince her to provide order's addresses to Murphy.
-[X] Use Empathy excellency and Without Honor Without Hope to sell her on letting Murphy help
-[X] STUNT: You step out of the car and into the invigorating chill of winter. Staying within lieutenant Murphy's earshot, you dial Anna: "Anna, hello. Has dr. Jackson called you yet? She was attacked tonight. She's ok, I got her to safety. There is likely to be trouble for some time. I am here with lieutenant Murphy of Chicago Special Investigations division. She's good people. Saved my life several times. She wants to help. I trust her, and her people helped me before too, with stuff like providing security to Lydia's cemetery party. Can I put you on speaker so you can work things out? I don't want to betray your trust, and I'm still new to the group, so I'm calling you. It'll really make you guys safer. We'll arrange formal meet and greet later, when things have settled down. Or, if you want, I can come visit you and we'll talk in person"
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I don't think the Order would appreciate this tactic. It's using undue pressure to coerce a member to share their information with a compromised LEO. Murphy is a good person, but her loyalties are divided and we don't know how trustworthy all of the people she might feel obligated to report to actually are. And that's part of the problem, Murphy's sense of obligation means she might later decide to share info no matter what she says right now.
 
BronzeTongue said:
Calling and spamming excellencies at one person is still pushing pretty hard. I'd be game for convincing them to talk in person and then work out what they want to do, but throwing 12 successes at getting one member to crack is just playing a shell game with who we want to split the blame with.
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That's fair. Ok:

[X] Call Anna, and ask her to call others. You need a group meeting to decide this.
-[X] Use Empathy excellency
-[X] STUNT: You step out of the car and into the invigorating chill of winter. Making sure lt. Murphy can't gear you, you dial Anna: "Anna, hello. Has dr. Jackson called you yet? She was attacked tonight. She's ok, I got her to safety. There is likely to be trouble for some time. I am here with lieutenant Murphy of Chicago Special Investigations division. She's good people. Saved my life several times. She wants to help. I trust her, and her people helped me before too, with stuff like providing security to Lydia's cemetery party. She wants to set up something to provide better security for order members, but she needs their identities for that. This is not a decision I can make on my own. How soon can a meeting be held?"
 
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Goldfish said:
I don't think the Order would appreciate this tactic. It's using undue pressure to coerce a member to share their information with a compromised LEO. Murphy is a good person, but her loyalties are divided and we don't know how trustworthy all of the people she might feel obligated to report to actually are. And that's part of the problem, Murphy's sense of obligation means she might later decide to share info no matter what she says right now.
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How are they divided? Library of Congress is a supernatural CIA/FBI analog. Murphy is a cop who has contacts there. That's not dividing her loyalties. They are still fully on "protect and serve the people of Chicago".
 
[X] You cannot share any names with her at this time
-[X] Earning the Order's trust was no small matter, so we won't risk damaging that by handing out their information without first learning whether they wish to share it. If they do, then we'll reach out and give Murphy the contact details for someone.
 
Yog said:
How are they divided? Library of Congress is a supernatural CIA/FBI analog. Murphy is a cop who has contacts there. That's not dividing her loyalties. They are still fully on "protect and serve the people of Chicago".
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We know Daedalus is compromised, and we have reason to suspect the Library of Congress is as well simply due to association with other covert government organizations.

And even if the LoC is not explicitly compromised, their goals and priorities don't necessarily align with those of the Order. Before we magically browbeat an ally into sharing their private information with Murphy, we should sit down with the relevant Order members and explain exactly who we would be giving that information to, including who all she works for.
 
Yog said:
How are they divided? Library of Congress is a supernatural CIA/FBI analog. Murphy is a cop who has contacts there. That's not dividing her loyalties. They are still fully on "protect and serve the people of Chicago".
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Library of Congress are really not supposed to get involved with well anything. They know they would get rolled by well everybody.
 
fictionfan said:
Well yes I rather want the para net to happen the sooner the better and Olivia introduction is the best way to make that happen.
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I'd like to push for it too, but there's a right and a wrong way to do it.

That's not just moralizing or something, how you do things can have significant impact on how they actually turn out.

Sure we have social excellencies, but we can't be everywhere and despite the discussion on it we can't just mass social everyone into perfectly going along with our plans.

Taking the time to do it right saves us the effort and complications of having to do it over later.

In this case that means legitimately working with them as peers* rather than through them as tools.

* Yeah they aren't in our league power wise, and I wouldn't necessarily give them the same weight if they got involved in our business, but they're still grown adults and have an equal stake in this. Being more powerful doesn't make us a higher order of person than them.
 
DragonParadox said:
Molly presenting her position
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Do you think we got enough successes? :V

BronzeTongue said:
Daedalus getting ahold of their names
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To be frank, if Daedalus tries to act against them, they're going to have a surprise or two coming their way, we know about them and could make them regret that.

Yog said:
Staying within lieutenant Murphy's earshot, you dial Anna: "Anna
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I am not sure the combination of *staying within earshot* and telling her name is a good thing, even worse with the mention of Dr Jackson right after, that is fey level of *totally not giving their names , honest. While still doing it* there.

Either move out of earshot or don't use names, the current one is an even bigger breach of trust than just telling outright.
 
Nyarky said:
To be frank, if Daedalus tries to act against them, they're going to have a surprise or two coming their way, we know about them and could make them regret that.
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That's not really the point though. They'd still be under threat and need to deal with the situation.

The consequences not being catastrophic and unmanageable doesn't mean they aren't real or that the material impact on their lives doesn't matter.
 
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