Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

No guarantees. Of anything.
But its explicitly canon that the White Court attempt to seek out talents when they can; besides Dresden's mother, we see the three porn star strega witches that Papa Raith recruited around himself in Blood Rites.

Whites just dont appear to be anywhere as fertile as vanilla humans, so attempts at getting talented women pregnant(or making talented men impregnate female Whampires) run into their own issues.

Explicit Word of Jim that White Court wizard-level talents exist, and that Thomas is one.
They just dont match the heights of human wizards.

Just like both the Black Court and Red Court have wizard-level talents.
Just not as many or as skilled or powerful as the White Council does.
Well that is kinda what I meant by wizard level talent though I guess said talent may just be less usable by whampires? So they don't reach wizard talent bullshit heights in that area that is.
No guarantees. Of anything.
But its explicitly canon that the White Court attempt to seek out talents when they can; besides Dresden's mother, we see the three porn star strega witches that Papa Raith recruited around himself in Blood Rites.

Whites just dont appear to be anywhere as fertile as vanilla humans, so attempts at getting talented women pregnant(or making talented men impregnate female Whampires) run into their own issues.

Explicit Word of Jim that White Court wizard-level talents exist, and that Thomas is one.
They just dont match the heights of human wizards.

Just like both the Black Court and Red Court have wizard-level talents.
Just not as many or as skilled or powerful as the White Council does.
Fertility thing true? Cause given he was only around harrys mom for what a couple years he still seems fertile enough and thomas has a younger sibling. That came around a decade after him?
 
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I have no idea if the Raith are less fertile or if they just tend to practice safe (not really) sex. But they don't seem to leave around nearly as many bastards as you might expect from the lifestyle.

If they were leaving bastards around than I would have expected to have at least one Raith in the Jade Dogs.
 
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Its certainly fertile enough that if he wants to get someone pregnant hes more than confident enough he can do it in an allotted time. So not desperate fertility issues if there are any.
 
Huh.
You do get scrubs like the Malvora in Jury Duty who tried to prey on a child and got beaten to death barehanded by a vanilla human thug. A retired human thug, at that.

But you'd think that in a WoD crossover, the higher level of threat would make anyone who wanted to live a long life invest in a lot of skilling up as Court policy.
Fortitute, Presence, Auspex, Celerity, Auspex, Dominate would be basics.
It's worth noting that for people IC it's not as simple as putting points in and getting abilities out. You actually have to train to get your goodies.

Technically exalts are the same, but everyone removes the training time clause for charms because it's annoying to play with.

So a character not being perfectly built makes sense for the same reason not everyone follows a perfectly optimized diet and exercise routine compounded with martial arts training.

They might not know exactly what they should be trying to do without guidance, not enjoy or have any particular affinity for particular activities, or simply be lazy. They could also have commitments on their time that limit how much they can actually do in a day.

Edit: error
 
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It's worth noting that for people IC it's not as simple as putting points in and getting abilities out. You actually have to train to get your goodies.

Technically exalts are the same, but everyone removes the training time clause for charms because it's annoying to play with.
So a character not being perfectly built makes sense for the same reason not everyone follows a perfectly optimized diet and exercise routine compounded with martial arts training.

They might not know exactly what they should be trying to do without guidance, not enjoy or have any particular affinity for particular activities, or simply be lazy. They could also have commitments on their time that limit how much they can actually do in a day.

Edit: error
Looking around, training times do not appear to be a thing for Kindred in V20.

The Storyteller might choose to implement them or not, but actual training time doesnt appear to be a canon mechanic.
Tutors are for the first dot of an out of Clan discipline, but after that you can raise it yourself.
In-Clan Disciplines, you appear to be raised as a vampire with a couple of those automatically.

No idea if grimoires are feasible for learning from.

===
I am not arguing that for optimized/optimal builds for Whampires mind you. We all know that shit happens.

What Im saying is that, given the age of the White Court, the internal politics where population levels appear to matter between Houses, their relatively slow rate of reproduction, and a society that routinely monetarily supports even its wastrels and applies subtle pressures, you expect a higher level of mandatory abilities among its members.


Its not like the Red Court, where you can mass produce fledgelings to the point where feral blood slaves are considered disposable scum that no-one even bothers trying to salvage.
Or Blacks who apparently are born learning their own Disciplines instinctively, and only seek out tutors for non-vampire magics.
 
Looking around, training times do not appear to be a thing for Kindred in V20.

The Storyteller might choose to implement them or not, but actual training time doesnt appear to be a canon mechanic.
Tutors are for the first dot of an out of Clan discipline, but after that you can raise it yourself.
In-Clan Disciplines, you appear to be raised as a vampire with a couple of those automatically.

No idea if grimoires are feasible for learning from.

===
I am not arguing that for optimized/optimal builds for Whampires mind you. We all know that shit happens.

What Im saying is that, given the age of the White Court, the internal politics where population levels appear to matter between Houses, their relatively slow rate of reproduction, and a society that routinely monetarily supports even its wastrels and applies subtle pressures, you expect a higher level of mandatory abilities among its members.


Its not like the Red Court, where you can mass produce fledgelings to the point where feral blood slaves are considered disposable scum that no-one even bothers trying to salvage.
Or Blacks who apparently are born learning their own Disciplines instinctively, and only seek out tutors for non-vampire magics.
Generic exp for combat experience is clear gamification to a silly extent. PCs are exempt to aspects because it's super annoying to deal with for most groups, but IC there should be better justification for what's going on.

Otherwise you'd have to explain why no one IC notices and exploits the exp system when it's supposed to be outside their scope.

Not noticing in the "ha ha this is all a game" way, because that's stupid, but if you can become a god through the power of side quests people should be able to pick up on it.

Especially if we're also making the assumption they should default to making mechanically optimal build choices like we're talking about here.
 
So on the matter of XP, this is not going to be perfect, but I have made it more than combat. You guys get XP for fulfilling your goals, proportionate to the difficulty of said goals and so too does everyone else, if in general at a lower pace.
 
So, I'm guessing we are going cannibal hunting after this? And possibly (probably) naagloshii hunting after that (though I still would have preferred to either devile refining cauldron it, or set it onto the path of redemption).
 
So, I'm guessing we are going cannibal hunting after this? And possibly (probably) naagloshii hunting after that (though I still would have preferred to either devile refining cauldron it, or set it onto the path of redemption).
The latters probably a bad idea I doubt they team up or anything but one after another in quick succession just sounds like a bad idea.
 
Generic exp for combat experience is clear gamification to a silly extent. PCs are exempt to aspects because it's super annoying to deal with for most groups, but IC there should be better justification for what's going on.
Otherwise you'd have to explain why no one IC notices and exploits the exp system when it's supposed to be outside their scope.

Not noticing in the "ha ha this is all a game" way, because that's stupid, but if you can become a god through the power of side quests people should be able to pick up on it.
Especially if we're also making the assumption they should default to making mechanically optimal build choices like we're talking about here.
XP is not just for combat experience though. Stuff that achieves personal milestones, or otherwise stretch you isn't something many NPCs appear to do often, and routine XP drip for NPCs is supposed to be rather low. IIRC Exalted 2E recommended less XP for story NPCs in a year than a PC would get in a story arc.


The IC argument seems to boil down to the Hunger demon thing.
They generally dont appear to need to learn how to feed by at least one method; it makes sense that the same thing would come with the ability to perform vampire-specific magics.


Like I said, not defaulting to mechanically optimal build choices
But a training regimen per House that corresponds to a threat environment that includes shit like random combat encounters with peer opposition seems to be strongly indicated.

For example, from Blood Rites, this was a surprise Black Court encounter for Lara and Dresden with some of Mavra's fledgelings:


Chapter Seventeen​

I'm not hopeless at hand-to-hand, but I'm not particularly talented, either. I've been beaten senseless once or twice. Well. A lot. It isn't as unlikely as it sounds-a lot of the things that started pummelling me could bench-press a professional basketball team, whereas I was only human. In my neck of the woods, that meant that I was slightly tougher than a ceramic teacup.
I'd managed to survive the beatings thanks to good luck, determined friends, and an evil faerie godmother, but I figured that sooner or later my luck would run out, and I'd find myself alone, in danger, and at the limits of my endurance. Tonight had proved me right.
So it was a good thing I'd planned ahead.
I reached for my new belt buckle, with its carved design of a bear. The buckle was cast from silver, and the bear design was my own hand-carved work. It took me months to make it, though it wasn't particularly beautiful or inspirational, but I hadn't been trying for artistic accomplishment when I'd been creating it.
I'd been trying to prepare myself for, in the words of Foghorn Leghorn, just such an emergency.
I touched my left hand to my belt buckle and whispered, "Fortius."

Power rushed into the pit of my stomach, a sudden tide of hot, living energy, nitrous for the body, mind, and soul. Raw life radiated out into my bones, running riot through my limbs. My confusion and weariness and pain vanished as swiftly as darkness before the sunrise.

This was no simple adrenaline boost, either, though that was a part of it. Call it chi or mana or one of thousand other names for it-it was pure magic, the very essence of life energy itself. It poured into me from the reservoir I'd created in the silver of the buckle. My heart suddenly overflowed with excitement, my thoughts with hope, confidence, and eager anticipation, and if I had a personal soundtrack to my life it would have been playing Ode to Joy while a stadium of Harry fans did the wave. It was all I could do to stop myself from bursting into laughter or song. The pain was still there, but I shrugged off the recent blows and exertions and suddenly felt ready to fight.
Even when magic is involved, there ain't no free lunch. I knew that the pain would catch up to me. But I had to focus. Survive now; worry about the backlash later.

"Lara," I said. "I realize that you're kind of invested in killing me, but from where I'm standing the situation has changed."
The succubus shot a glance at the vampires and then at Inari. "I concur, Dresden."
"Rearrange teams and get the girl out?"
"Can you move?"
I pushed myself up, feeling pretty peppy, all things considered. Lara had her back more or less to me, and was trying to keep her eyes on all three Black Courters. The vampires, in turn, simply stood there with only the flicker of something hungry stirring in their dead, eyes to proclaim them something other than lifeless corpses. "Yeah, I'm good to go."
Lara shot a glance over her shoulder, her expression flickering with disbelief. "Impressive. Pax, then?"
I jerked my chin in a nod. "Twenty-four hours?"
"Done."
"Groovy."
"Their faces," Inari wailed. "Their faces! My God, what are they?"

I blinked at the terrified girl and shot a glance at Lara. "She doesn't know? You don't tell her these things?"
The succubus shrugged a shoulder, keeping most of her attention on the nearest vampire and said, "It's my father's policy."
"Your family is twisted, Lara. It really is." I picked up the shattered halves of my blasting rod. The carvings and spells laid on the wood were difficult, time-consuming, and expensive to make. I'd had to replace maybe half a dozen rods over the years, and it was the labor of better than a fortnight to create a new one. The girl had broken mine, which annoyed the hell out of me, but the drought of positive energy still zinging through me pointed out the upside: I now had two handy shafts of wood with jagged, pointy ends. I stepped between Inari and the nearest vampire and passed her one broken half of the rod. "Here," I said. "If you get the chance, make like Buffy."
Inari blinked at me. "What? Is this a joke?"
"Do it," said Lara. Her voice was laced with iron. "No questions, Inari."
The steel in the succubus's voice galvanized the young woman. She took the shard of wood without further hesitation, though her expression grew no less terrified.

Overhead, the dark energy of the curse swirled around and around, a constant, intimidating pressure on my scalp. I tried to block out all the distractions, focusing on the curse and on where it was going. I needed to know who its target was-not only for the sake of my investigation, but for my immediate survival.
That curse was several kinds of nasty. And as it happened, I had a constructive, life-affirming purpose for a boatload of nasty juju. I drew my silver pentacle from my neck and spoke a troubling thought aloud. "Why are they just standing there?"
"They're communing with their master," Lara stated.
"I hate getting put on call waiting," I said, wrapping the chain of my pentacle around my fist. "Shouldn't we hit them now?"
"No," Lara said sharply. "They're aware of us. Don't move. It will only set them off, and time is our ally."

A sudden wash of almost physical cold set the hairs on the back of my neck on end. The curse was about to land, and I still wasn't sure who it was coming for. I glanced upward, hoping for a physical cue. "I wouldn't be so sure about that, Miss Raith."
One of the vampires, the smallest of the pair who had showed up with One-ear, suddenly shuddered. Its dead eyes flickered around until they landed on me, and then it spoke. You wouldn't think there would be a whole lot of difference between the rasp of one dry, leathery dead larynx and another, but there was. This voice flowed out and it wasn't the voice of the vampire whose lips were moving. It was an older voice. Older and colder and vicious, but somehow tinged with something feminine. "Dresden," that voice said. "And Raith's right hand. Raith's bastard son. And the darling of his eye. This is a fortunate night."

"Evening, Mavra," I said. "If it's all the same to you, can you stop playing sock puppet with the omega Nosferatu and move this along? I've got a big day tomorrow and I want to get to bed for it."
"Christ, Harry," came a choking voice. I looked back and saw Thomas on the ground, his eyes open. He looked like death, and he had trouble focusing on me, but at least he was lucid. "Are you drunk all of a sudden?"
I winked at him. "It's the power of positive thinking."
The puppet vampire hissed with Mavra's anger, and its voice took on a quavering, modulated, half-echoing quality. "Tonight will balance many scales. Take them, my children. Kill them all."
And a lot of things went down.

The vampires came for us. One-ear rushed at Lara. The sock puppet went for me, and the third one headed for Inari. It happened fast. My attacker may have been new to the game and clumsy, yet it moved at such a speed that it barely registered on my thoughts-but my body was still singing with the infusion of positive energy, and I reacted to the attack as if it had been the opening steps of a dance I already knew. I sidestepped the vampire's rush and drove my half of the former blasting rod down at its back, Buffy-like.
Maybe it works better on television. The wood gouged the vampire, but I don't think much of it got past its suit coat, much less pierced its heart. But the blow did manage to throw the thing off balance and send it stumbling past me. Maybe it actually hurt the vampire-the creature let out an earsplitting, creaking shriek of rage and surprise.

Inari screamed and swung her stake, but her Buffy impersonation wasn't any better than mine. The vampire caught her arm, twisted its wrist, and broke bones with a snap, crackle, pop. She gasped and fell to her knees. The vampire shoved her over and leaned down, baring its teeth (not fangs, I noticed, just yellow corpse-teeth) and spreading its jaws to tear out her throat and bathe in the flood of blood.
And as if that weren't enough, the curse suddenly coalesced and came shrieking out of the night to end Inari's life.
I had scant seconds to act. I charged the vampire, leaned back, pictured an invisible beer can beginning an inch above the vampire's teeth, and stomp-kicked the creature in the chin with my heel. It wasn't a question of Harry-strength versus undead superstrength. I'd gotten the chump shot in, and while the vampire might have been able to rip through a brick wall, it only weighed as much as a dried corpse and it didn't have enough experience to have anticipated the attack. I drove the kick home, hard. Physics took over from there, and the vampire fell back with a surprised hiss.

I seized Inari's right arm with my left. Energy flows out of the body from the right side. The left side absorbs energy. I stretched out my senses and felt the dark energy of the curse rushing down at Inari. It hit her a second later, but I was ready for it, and with an effort of will I caught the dark power coursing down into the girl before it could do her harm.
Pain erupted in my left palm. The power was cold-and not mountain-breeze cold, either. It was slimy and nauseating, like something that had come slinking out from the depths of some enormous subterranean sea. In that instant of contact, my head exploded with terror. This power, this black magic, was wrong. Fundamentally, nightmarishly, intensely wrong.

Since I'd begun my career as a wizard, I'd always believed that magic came from life, but that it was only potential energy, like electricity or natural gas or uranium. And while it may have come from positive origins, only its application would prove it good or evil. That there was no such thing as truly evil, malevolent, black magic.

I'd been wrong.

Maybe my own magic worked like that, but this power was something different. It had only one purpose-to destroy. To inflict horror, pain, and death. I felt that power writhe into me through my contact with the girl, and it hurt me on a level so deep that I could not find a specific word, even a specific thought to describe it. It ripped at me within, as though it had found a weakened place in my defenses, and started gouging out a larger opening, struggling to force itself inside me.


I fought it. The struggle happened all within an instant, and it hurt still more to tear that darkness loose, to force it to flow on through me and out of me again. I won the fight. But I felt a sudden terror that something had been torn away from me; that in simple contact with that dark energy, I had been scarred somehow, marked.
Or changed.

I heard myself scream, not in fear or challenge, but in agony. I extended my right hand and the black magic flowed out of it in an invisible torrent, fastening onto the vampire as it gained its feet again and reached out to grab me. The vampire's expression didn't even flicker, so I was sure it did not feel the curse coming.
Which made it a complete surprise when something slammed into the vampire from directly overhead, too quickly to be seen. There was a sound of impact, a raspy, dry scream, and the vampire went down hard.
It lay on the ground like a butterfly pinned to a card, arms and legs thrashing uselessly. Its chest and collarbone had been crushed.

By an entire frozen turkey. A twenty-pounder.

The plucked bird must have fallen from an airplane overhead, doubtlessly manipulated by the curse. By the time it got to the ground, the turkey had already reached its terminal velocity, and was still hard as a brick. The drumsticks poked up above the vampire's crushed chest, their ends wrapped in red tinfoil.
The vampire gasped and writhed a little more.
The timer popped out of the turkey.
Everyone stopped to blink at that for a second. I mean, come on. Impaled by a guided frozen turkey missile. Even by the standards of the quasi-immortal creatures of the night, that ain't something you see twice.
"For my next trick," I panted into the startled silence, "anvils."
And then the fight was on again.

Inari screamed in pain from her knees on the ground. Lara Raith lifted Thomas's little gun, and tongues of flame licked from it as she shot at One-ear. She was aiming for his legs. I started to help her, but I'd been playing long odds, mixing it up in hand-to-hand with the Black Court, and they caught up to me.
The vampire I'd dodged in the opening seconds of the fight slammed its arm into my shoulders. The blow was broad and clumsy but viciously strong. I managed to roll with it a little, but it still sent me straight down onto the gravel and knocked the wind from my chest. I felt the edges of rock cut me in a dozen places at once, but the pain didn't bother me. Yet. Nonetheless, it took me a second to get my body moving again.
The vampire stepped right over me and closed in on the fallen girl. With a simple, brutal motion, it seized her hair and shoved her facedown onto the parking lot, baring the back of her neck. It bent forward.

Thomas snarled, "Get away from her!" He hauled himself forward using his unwounded leg and one arm, and he got the other around the vampire's leg. Thomas heaved, and the creature fell, then twisted like an arthritic serpent to grapple with him.
Thomas went mano a mano, no tricks, no subtlety. The living corpse got a hand on Thomas's throat and tried to tear his head off. Thomas writhed sinuously away from the full power of the creature, and then rolled over a couple of times. Thomas got hold of the thing's wrists and tried to force them away from his neck.
And then Thomas changed.

It wasn't anything so dramatic as the vampires of the Red Court, whose demonic forms lurked beneath a masquerade of seemingly normal human flesh. It was far subtler. A cold wind seemed to gather around him. His features stretched, changing, his cheekbones starker, his eyes more sunken, his face more gaunt. His skin took on a shining, almost luminescent luster, like a fine pearl under moonlight. And his eyes changed as well. His irises flickered to a shade of chrome-colored silver, then bleached out to white altogether.
He snarled a string of curses as he fought, and the sound of his voice changed as well-again, a subtle thing. It was more feral, more vicious, and its tone was not even remotely human. Thomas, despite his deathly injuries, went up against the Black Court killing machine in a contest of main strength and won. He forced the vampire's hands from his throat, rolled so that his good leg came up beneath the vampire, and, with the combined strength of his arms, Thomas threw the vampire into the brick wall of the nearest building.
Bricks shattered, and bits and pieces of them flew outward in a cloud of stinging shrapnel. The vampire collapsed to the ground for a moment, stunned. A heartbeat later, it stirred and began to rise again. Thomas's shoulders heaved, as though to push himself up and continue the fight, but whatever fuel had driven his transformation and sudden strength had been expended.
He fell limp and loose to the gravel, gaunt face empty of expression. His all-white eyes went out of focus, staring, and he did not move.

Lara Raith wasn't doing badly for herself. The wind was blowing the short little black silk robe back off of her, so it was all black lace and pale flesh that somehow did not present a contrast to the gun. One-ear had fallen on his side. Shards of brittle bone protruded from both thighs and both knees, where Lara Raith had exercised her marksmanship. One-ear pushed himself up, and Lara put a shot in the arm supporting the vampire's weight, One-ear's elbow exploded in a cloud of ruined cloth, moldy flesh, and bone splinters, and the creature fell back to the ground.
Lara put a bullet through One-ear's left eye. The smell was indescribably nauseating. Lara aimed at the vampire's other eye.
"This won't kill me," the creature snarled.
"I don't need to," Lara responded. "Just to slow you down."
"I'll be after you in hours," One-ear-one-eye said.
"Look somewhere sunny," she responded. "Au revoir, darling."
The gun's hammer clicked down and silence ensued.

Lara had time to blink in disbelief at the gun. Then the vampire Thomas had stunned rushed at Lara's back. The creature wasn't quite a blur, but it was fast as hell. I tried to shout a warning at her, but it came out more of a croak than anything.
Lara shot a glance over her shoulder and started to move, but my warning had come too late. The vampire seized her by her dark hair and spun her around. Then it hit her with a broad swing of its arm and literally knocked her out of her high-heeled shoes. She flew at the nearest wall, half spinning in the air, and hit hard. The gun tumbled from her fingers and she fell, her eyes wide and frightened, her expression stunned. Her face had been cut on the cheek, at the corner of her mouth, and on her forehead. She was bleeding odd, pale blood in thick, trickling lines.

The vampire shuddered and leapt after her, landing on all fours. It was graceful, but alien, far more arachnid than feline. The corpse prowled over to her, seized her throat, and shoved her shoulders against the wall. Then it thrust out a long, leathery tongue and started licking her blood, hissing in mounting pleasure.
One- ear slithered over to her as well, using his unwounded arm and a serpentine writhing of the rest of his body. "Raith's second in command," the vampire rasped. "As well as the White who betrayed us. Now you're both mine."
Lara tried to push the vampire licking her blood away, but she wasn't strong enough, and she still looked dazed. "Get away from me."
"Mine," One-ear repeated. It drew Lara's hair back away from her throat. The other vampire took her hands and pinned them against the wall above her head.
One- ear touched its tongue to Lara's mouth and shivered. "I'll show you what real vampires are like. You'll see things differently soon. And you'll be lovely, still. For a little while. I'll enjoy that."

Lara struggled, but the haze of confusion over her eyes did not clear, and her motions had a dreamlike lack of coordination. Her face took on an expression of horror as both vampires leaned into her, their withered teeth settling onto her flesh. They bit her, and she bucked in terror and agony. There were ugly, slurping sounds beneath Lara Raith's screams.
Which was what I'd been waiting for. Once they had bitten down, I gathered up momentum as quietly as I could, closed the last few yards in the springing strides I would have used on a fencing strip, and drove the six-inch heel of one of Lara's black pumps as hard as I could into the space between the unwounded vampire's shoulder blades. I had the heel of my hand and the full weight of my body behind the blow, and I hit square and hard, so that the heel drove into its back, just left of its spine, directly at the vampire's withered heart.

I didn't get the response I would have liked best. The vampire didn't disintegrate or explode into dust. But it did convulse with a sudden scream, its body going into almost the same kind of spastic seizure the other one had displayed on having a turkey rammed through its chest. It staggered and fell to the ground, its dead face locked into a grimace of surprise and helpless pain.
One- ear was slow to react. By the time it tore its mouth from the gnawed and bleeding slope of Lara Raith's left breast, I had my mother's pentacle out and had focused all of my attention on it.
Now I've heard that the power of faith is simply another aspect of the magic I used all the time. I've also heard that it is a completely different kind of energy, totally unrelated to the living power I felt all around me. Certainly it garnered a very different reaction from various supernatural entities than my everyday wizardry did, so maybe they weren't related at all.

But that didn't matter. I wasn't holding a crucifix in the thing's face. I was holding the symbol of what I believed in. The five-pointed star of the pentacle represented the five forces of the universe, those of air, fire, water, earth, and of spiritual energy, laid into patterns of order and life and bound within a circle of human thought, human will. I believed that magic was fundamentally a force of life, of good, something meant to protect and preserve. I believed that those who wielded it therefore had a responsibility to use that power in the way it was meant to be used-and that was belief enough to tap into the vast power of faith, and to direct it against One-ear.

The pentacle burst into silver and blue light, a blaze as bright as an airborne flare. One-ear's stretched facial skin began to peel away, and the thick fluids oozing from its ruined eye socket burst into silver flame. The vampire screamed and threw itself away from that silver fire. If he'd had a crony left, they could have come at me from opposite directions, so that the blazing light from the pentacle could sear only one. But he didn't, and I followed after One-ear, keeping the pentacle held before me, my concentration locked upon it.
One- ear scrambled over the writhing vampire with the turkey-crushed chest, and the creature, maybe younger or more vulnerable than its leader, simply burst into flame as the pentacle glared down upon it. I had to skip back a step from that sudden heat, and the fallen vampire was consumed by blinding fire until nothing was left of it.

By the time my eyes had adjusted to the comparative darkness of the parking lot again, One-ear was nowhere to be seen. I checked over my shoulder and saw the transformed Lara Raith straddle the staked vampire, her eyes blazing silver and bright, her skin shining as Thomas's had. She drove blows down at its face, crushing it with the first few, then driving into its skull with sickening squelching sounds during subsequent blows. She continued, screaming at the top of her lungs the whole while, until she'd crushed its face and moved onto its neck, beating it into shapeless pulp.
And then she tore the vampire's head off its shoulders, killing it.

She rose slowly, pale eyes distant and inhuman. Her white skin was streaked with ichor of black, brown, and dark green, mingling with the pale, pinkish blood around her cuts and the bite wounds. Her dark hair had fallen from its mostly up style, and hung around her in a wild tangle. She looked terrified and furious and sexy as hell.
The succubus turned hungry eyes on me, and began a slow stalk forward. I let the gathered light ease out of my pentacle. It wouldn't do me any good against Lara. "We have a truce," I said. My voice sounded harsh, cold, though I hadn't tried to make it that way. "Don't make me destroy you too."

She stopped in her stockinged tracks. Her expression flickered with uncertainty and fear, and she looked a hell of a lot shorter without the do-me pumps. She shuddered and folded her arms over her stomach, closing her eyes for a moment. The luminous, compelling glow faded from her skin, her features becoming less unreal, if no less lovely. When she opened her eyes again, they were almost human. "My family," she said. "I have to get them out of here. Our truce stands. Will you help me?"
I looked at Inari, on the ground and paralyzed with pain. Thomas wasn't moving. He might have been dead.
Lara took a deep breath and said, "Mister Dresden, I can't protect them. I need your help to get them to safety. Please."
The last word had cost her something. Somehow, I held back from agreeing to help her on pure reflex. That is a monumentally bad idea, Harry, I cautioned myself. I shoved the knee-jerk chivalry aside and scowled at Lara.

She stood facing me, her chin lifted proudly. Her injuries looked vicious, and she had to be in pain, but she refused to let it show on her face-except for one moment, when she glanced at Thomas and Inari, and her eyes suddenly glistened. The tears fell, but she did not allow herself to blink.
"Dammit." I let out my breath in disgust at myself and said, "I'll get my car."
The scene does portray Lara and Thomas as both lower-powered than they are portrayed only two or three books later.
But it does do a fair job of illustrating that shit turns up out of the blue, and you need to be capable of fighting or running.
 
So, I'm guessing we are going cannibal hunting after this? And possibly (probably) naagloshii hunting after that (though I still would have preferred to either devile refining cauldron it, or set it onto the path of redemption).
Possibly.
Or they'll come to us; Hall is explicit about his scourge of skin walkers being called to war, so I expect to see them arrayed for war.

We almost certainly aren't cornering the naagloshii; its got too many mobility options (flight, dive into Lake Michigan or the Chicago River, step sideways into the NeverNever) to be pinned down without When The Tigers Run Free, and I suspect the QM might have use for it as a miniboss in the future.

I fully expect it to pull a Cowl and beat a tactical retreat if it suffers significant damage.
 
Possibly.
Or they'll come to us; Hall is explicit about his scourge of skin walkers being called to war, so I expect to see them arrayed for war.

We almost certainly aren't cornering the naagloshii; its got too many mobility options (flight, dive into Lake Michigan or the Chicago River, step sideways into the NeverNever) to be pinned down without When The Tigers Run Free, and I suspect the QM might have use for it as a miniboss in the future.

I fully expect it to pull a Cowl and beat a tactical retreat if it suffers significant damage.
Eh, I doubt it's that easy to escape from us. The lake would be an instant loss condition for it, because RVD. Mobility-wise, I'm not sure if it has that much of an advantage, and as long as we make prep, we could totally bind it and restrict it's mobility greatly. Make a chainmail net with mirrored rings, add some super glue to it, and it'll be much harder for it to move.
 
Eh, I doubt it's that easy to escape from us. The lake would be an instant loss condition for it, because RVD. Mobility-wise, I'm not sure if it has that much of an advantage, and as long as we make prep, we could totally bind it and restrict it's mobility greatly. Make a chainmail net with mirrored rings, add some super glue to it, and it'll be much harder for it to move.
We cant actually fight in RVD that Im aware of.

It has a mobility advantage because it would be running, and we would be in pursuit and watching for ambush.
All things being equal, the pursuer is usually slower than the pursued; one runs for its life, the other for its satisfaction.
We dont currently have the sort of dominating speed advantage that would be necessary to cut it off.

And thats assuming that it cant do a teleport, like Mab et al, or a Hurry Home style effect like Exalted spirits; its an Incarna-tier spirit in this AU after all.

EDIT
As for restraints, its an Incarna-level spirit.
A fallen divine messenger spirit thats been described IC by Molly as a god more powerful than Iku Turso, and with no such constraints about being imprisoned.

Chainmail nets? Superglue? Waste of time IMO. Like trying to hold an elephant with spiderwebbing.
 
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It can't run if on the turn it tries we win intative and skewer it with our sword. Beheding is a great move.
Incarna-tier spirit.
I am pretty sure this evil little bastard has Lethal/Agg Soak in addition to multiple Ox-Body equivalents and its magic.
You are NOT oneshotting it, and if it chooses to run, we cant catch it.

Yes, we can take it 1v1 in a fight assuming we're both fresh.
Our ability to deal Agg takes its combat regeneration out of the picture, Hellscry Chakra + ATB allows us to see through its veils and any illusions, and Windborn Stride allows us to stay close enough to stab it to death.

But I strongly doubt our ability to stop it from running away.

It could shapeshift into a fast bird and fly.
It could shapeshift into a fish or cetacean and swim. It could activate magic and step into the NeverNever.
It could even just teleport; Battle Grounds demonstrated not just high tier Fae could do this.

We're a baby Exalt that hasn't even hit E3. We have limits.
 
Current tally:
Adhoc vote count started by uju32 on May 26, 2023 at 10:07 PM, finished with 90 posts and 12 votes.
 
Incarna don't have anything to fear from a new exalted not out of their first thousand years, don't oversell it.
This is WoD.
Spirits are classified in four tiers of power according to their power and cosmic significance, from low to high:
1)Gaffling
2)Jaggling
3)Incarna
4)Celestine.

Mab is an Incarna. So is Titania, the Erl King and a bunch of others like Yama Kings.
Naagloshi are also Incarna.
All that is Word of QM.

No idea whether the Mothers are Incarna or Celestines.
Angels are presumably either Celestines, or off the scale.
 
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If we want to kill the Naagloshii, not just beat it, we have to fight on our terms.

FInd it's homeground, that it is metaphysically bound to, and use Gifts of Invisible Flame.

Then it won't have a choice to either fight us to the end to try and cleanse his land, or suffer whatever that charm does to someone who is bound to the land it is poisoning.
 
We cant actually fight in RVD that Im aware of.
We can't physically fight. We can still use charms. So, we either need to buy Sinner Boiling Stare, at which point we can start spamming it at anything in the water, or some path magic, like fire evocation (or Ancient Sorcery attack spells), or we just rematerlialize, attack, then disperse again. Point is, there's no escape from us in the water.

And we get awareness of everything in the water. Escape is completely impossible that way.
As for restraints, its an Incarna-level spirit.
A fallen divine messenger spirit thats been described IC by Molly as a god more powerful than Iku Turso, and with no such constraints about being imprisoned.

Chainmail nets? Superglue? Waste of time IMO. Like trying to hold an elephant with spiderwebbing.
Molly IC thinks she can take it, as long as she can prevent it from escaping. I don't actually remember it being described as more powerful than Iku Tsuru. And I was talking about alchemically treated objects. Chainmail net with unbreakable mirror treatment, and superglue recipe that we bought with Alchemy 1.
Mab is an Incarna. So is Titania, the Erl King and a bunch of others like Yama Kings.
Naagloshi are also Incarna.
All that is Word of QM.

No idea whether the Mothers are Incarna or Celestines.
Angels are presumably either Celestines, or off the scale.
Angels and mothers are almost certainly Celestines, and Incarna is a wide category. I mean, Bob is almost certainly a low level Incarna, at least when we include Evil Bob.
 
There is a charm that allows you guys to walk on water if you want to go that way from what I recall. Also while in the water you would have what amounts to free teleportation since RVD only costs 'a moment of concentration'. Combined with the fact that you cannot drown and that your speed is identical regardless of medium and fighting Molly in the water is not a good idea for anything that has to depend on (more or less) biological means of locomotion. That said it would isolate her from all her allies.
 
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