On the other hand, it also makes combat less of a slog. The last week of real time has been what? 18 seconds?
Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)
- Thread starter DragonParadox
- Start date
- Crossover Fantasy
Works fine for an old black, but I cannot make Lord Raith walk around with an RPG hole in his chest. With 15 wounds total he could do that.
This is what we are going with right now for the sake of me being able to keep writing engaging and hopefully interesting fights at this level: GSNF is presently soakable (by things that can soak Agg). At Essence 4 that is no longer the case.
- Location
- Terror Australis
Has it always been 5? He was using 7 dice for spellcasting at the Museum. That was why I though it was 7.
That seems to follow the idea behind Yazrc's remark, that they are necessary to fight the biggest foes, while still making it weaker but usable before that, can probably work, add clunkiness but no solution is perfect.
I strongly advise you to go to the discord and ask people for advice. We have been getting better as a whole, but our system mastery is still pretty low, and people have been wrangling with these issues for years, at this point.
so just throwing it out there, if we have to change the rules anyway, why not put a theme in. i was thinking about sharing power. higher beings sharing a part of their power with mortals for favours or what have you. we have a problem with protecting our mortals from our opponents. and we have a problem with having too much personal power. why not exchange some for the other. like we can create talismans and imbue them with our flame, giving the helpless ( some) protection while staying in character.
He has bene casting things in his specialization.
That seems more like the domain of homebrewed charms, which we may get access to one day.
Yzarc
The Spark of Madness
What do you mean by soakable exactly? As in is soak rolled twice?
EDIT - Once again, my advice is go to Discord before changes as this issue was brought up there and addressed, multiple times.
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yes. homebrew. we have to change things anyway so why not with a homebrew charm?
It is soaked as its own distinct source of damage. As for the Discord I'll he honest I don't have the energy for that and I do not want to move quest discussion off site. I've had pad experiences with that.
Goldfish
Friendly Spider-Fish Abomination
- Location
- Formerly of the Far Realm
Dude, if the Charm needs to be toned down or reworked to make things function, that's not a problem. There's always some stuff that needs to be tweaked, and that goes doubly so when you take into account the difficulty meshing together two different settings, each with their own power levels that don't quite operate on same wavelength, so to speak....yeah I literally cannot make this work.
This is the power creep that some have been worried about and the only way to fix it would be to give you nothing but singular opponents who can if not shrug off than at least take 4-5 levels of damage and continue to hit. This either needs to be soakable or it needs to be reduced or every fight in this story is going to be an elaborate game of tag where the enemy is either untouched or practically dead.
I hate to put this on you, especially after I argued rules as written for so long, but this thing is not fun for me to write and in the long term I do not think it is fun for you to read.
Being ignorant of the Exalted system in general, this suggestion might not work (or could just be awful), but could GSNF possibly be reworked to just be an added soakable damage boost to attacks made while it is active, perhaps while increasing its duration to all attacks made during a turn? Or Essence turns?
So instead of forcing an enemy to soak, say 15 damage (or whatever applies), we would force them to soak 20 (or whatever value GSNF is) on affected attacks.
Adding damage dice rather than damage would be doable yes.
The system goes
- Roll for attack -> if you get one success take your bonus successes, add dice from your weapon and/or stats -> Roll damage -> Get Damage levels
- If the other guy can soak whatever damage you did do him he rolls soak with each of his successes subtracting from the damage
- Location
- Germany
Nuking something is an action with consequences, both mundane and supernatural.
GSNF is vastly more subtle.
And Ichor Flux makes independant attacks that can be soaked seperatly I think. Great support, but not a near-certain fight-ender.
The other thing I could do is flat out make everyone even faintly supernatural more durable, like say +2 HL across the board if you are anything more magical than a human, with the possibility to scale as you go up in power
We are going to roll with things as they are right now and at the end of the arc I am going to put types of mitigation to a vote, including adding damage dice, not damage, adding HL to everything supernatural, soaking GSNF separately from now until essence 4. Since I made this mess it only makes sense to give you guys as much of a choice as I can manage. Once again I am sorry for this whole thing. I feel like I should have a decent grasp of the system by now, but the probabilities keep blindsiding me
Isn't defending against multiple attackers vastly harder than against singular attack?
That counts workable. So, it would go roll attack. If attack is successful (at least 1 success gets past soak), roll again, this time with added dice bonus from GSNF. And probably take highest of two rolls? And GSNF would convert lethal to aggravated probably.
And the alternative is "right now it's rolled as a separate soakable damage, and when we hit E4 it gets unsoakable"?
Both are perfectly doable, with the latter being narratively explained as our Exaltation going from emergency power preservation mode to normal functioning mode.
The first one feels smoother in power curve, but would require more rolls.
in the end, either is fine for me, I am here for narrative and excellent writing.è
Not sure that would be a good idea. I mean, at least in DF, fae ladies can be killed with perfectly mundane non-overkill once you get past their magical defenses. DF very much is full of glass cannons, if you think about it, and a lot of toughness is not innate, but about prep.
To be fair, it's essentially a homebrew system made by one man in order to weld together several settings, each not perfectly balanced. And, if I understand it correctly, it's still essentially in open beta.We are going to roll with things as they are right now and at the end of the arc I am going to put types of mitigation to a vote, including adding damage dice, not damage, adding HL to everything supernatural, soaking GSNF separately from now until essence 4. Since I made this mess it only makes sense to give you guys as much of a choice as I can manage. Once again I am sorry for this whole thing. I feel like I should have a decent grasp of the system by now, but the probabilities keep blindsiding me
Don't stress over it.
Yzarc
The Spark of Madness
I have a quick suggestion. Why not put a E4 restriction on purchasing the charm and swap it for By Agony Empowered.We are going to roll with things as they are right now and at the end of the arc I am going to put types of mitigation to a vote, including adding damage dice, not damage, adding HL to everything supernatural, soaking GSNF separately from now until essence 4. Since I made this mess it only makes sense to give you guys as much of a choice as I can manage. Once again I am sorry for this whole thing. I feel like I should have a decent grasp of the system by now, but the probabilities keep blindsiding me
By Agony Empowered is listed as 5 Dots but it is not worth more than 3 dots.
I will give my Argument is that it is NOT worth 5 Dots. So with that in Mind....
The First part, I have underlines, is a feature of Exalted where Lethal Damage does not overflow. Meaning once you are Incapacitated, you fall unconscious and are either killed or captured.
In WoD, Lethal Damage overflows into Agg damage. Naturally. So that entire mechanic, which is a core feature of the charm, becomes redundant.
The Second part, we can only remain active IF we pass a willpower roll at 8 at a -4 dice penalty. By Pain Reforged and By Agony Empowered both stop the effects of Bashing and Lethal damage in the final health level. But where By Pain Reforged is automatic, AND reduces wounds by -1, Agony by comparison, requires you to pass a DC 8 Will roll at a -4 penalty. If you fail, the charm essentially fails as you are knocked out in a fight close to something that put you down in the first place and it allows you to spend 1 essence to get a max of +4 dice for one turn (Since Pain reforged reduces -5 penalty to -4).
So the "Double your health level" is very much conditional on a dice throw. Literally. The only advantage of Agony over pain reforged is that it works on Lethal Dice and gives us the "chance" of being able to continue fighting. If it did not have the Roll DC 8 Will then yeah, 4 Dots would be ok but the charm, well, is meh. Especially since it still compares very badly to 3 Dot charms from other splats.
Now we come to the penalty and Bonus +4 part. With regards to Penalty negotiator, lets compare the charm to other similar charms.
Here are a few penalty negotiators and the Dragonblooded have a scene long penalty negator. So in terms of negating penalty, it is worthless.
Now lets look at the +4 Dice bonus it gives.
Both of the examples are scene long or Essence +1. By comparison, ours lasts only one round. So here too it is flat out inferior to a 2 Dot Charm and a 1 Dot Charm.
To add to that....
The problem is in the conversion. The Charms in 2E worked like this. You Purchase By Pain Reforged and only then you could Purchase By Agony Empowered. This was under the premise that you Could not roll over lethal to Agg. So the first allowed you to roll over Blunt damage and the second allowed you to do so for Lethal damage.
Secondly, my main point is that if we are allowed to get that charm, we would not need to fix the other charms. That is my point.
That is why I said, the charm is not worth more then 3 Dots max. It does not work as intended and is poorly ported and vastly over priced for what it does.
Keep in mind that Perfects are 4 dots and By Agony Empowered competes with The King Still Stands.
So knocking it down to 3 Dots and substituting it for GSNF works as both are Malfeas Charms and By Agony Empowered does not break the game AND it does not nerf GSNF.
If one wanted to go further it could be a "Reduce enemy soak by X" effect. Instead of rolling more dice or getting automatic damage the enemy rolls less or has a baseline number of success they must roll before any soak occurs.
Yeah I could live with swapping that in, would make people with guns less of an issue and supernatural heavy weights more of a one which I am in favor of.
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- Pronouns
- ImBuda
Ok, look we are a solaroid and I think this is the only charm in the book that adds damage directly to our atacks. Yes it sucks that we can kill most people without trouble but when we enter the late game it will become less and less usefull. I think that adding a limit now at Essence 4 makes sense
Also I dont like to change things because that breaks my inmersión and that is a road that leads to more and more metachanges. Green Sun nimbus flare was what we bought and although what you say makes sense, I would prefer to continue with our overpowered charm
Also I dont like to change things because that breaks my inmersión and that is a road that leads to more and more metachanges. Green Sun nimbus flare was what we bought and although what you say makes sense, I would prefer to continue with our overpowered charm
I like @Yzarc suggestion, it limits the amount of homebrew needed and maintains game balance. Also I agree with @DragonParadox having mooks be less of threat than boss monsters is more interesting.
- Location
- Germany
Yeah, but soaking them is not.
There are pretty few things with more than 7 health in the WoD system.
And everyone is limited in their ability to soak aggravated damage.
So for what do we desperatly need damage-adders?
We killed the high-health Raksha with ease because it wasn't good at defence, we will kill this Akuma in a straight damage-for-damage slugging match.
The next biggest deal might be the Naagloshii and I would prefer it if fighting that one is not easy.