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Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

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Yog said:
It would at least alleviate her need for chi, as I understand it. Same as it does for whampire hunger. And we have little else tangible to offer at the moment.
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It would allow her to control the hunger for Chi, it would not eliminate the need for it.

And I assume that an old vampire like her has long since mastered that anyway.
It's a nice trick for young ones to skip the phase where they might vamp out and eat people by accident, but not really useful for experienced monsters.
 
Adhoc vote count started by Yzarc on Mar 18, 2023 at 8:25 AM, finished with 56 posts and 6 votes.
  • [X] Have Clippy discreetly give the signal to go in to your allies at the exits
    -[X] Tell Lady Eiko that you are sorry you don't seem to be having enough common interests to bring this talk to a more fruitful result.
    -[X] Activate your Viridian Exoskeleton, due to your already flaring Anima you should be capable of activating flight and deal aggravated damage without further actions wasted
    -[X] Everyone focusses their offensive on Lady Eiko, Wan Kuei are vastly stronger when they have time to switch on a variety of Shintai-powers and take their demonic form, so don't get distracted by mooks.
    [X]Speak openly of her intentions and what Emma-O will do to her when he finds out. Eiko has no choice. She must fight the will of Emma-O now even if it destroys her, for if she doesn't Emma-O will destroy her in an even more painful manner.
    -[X]Stunt: "You are doomed" You say the words with compassion. "When Emma-O learns of your intentions he will destroy you in the cruelest manner his very experienced mind can devise. Your only hope now if to fight his will with everything you have. For even if it destroys yourself it will be a better end and maybe just maybe by devoting your will to me I can shield you from a measure of his wrath so that at least a part of you will survive."
    [X] Turn the conversation to the Seed of Night, maybe you can come at this from the other angle
    [X] Ask what you can do to help
    [X] Ask what you can do to help
    -[X] Offer Mercy in Servitude
    -[X] STUNT: As understanding dawns like the first ray of the sun, a context-appropriate responce forms in your mind. Looking directly into Eiko's eyes, a subtle and serene smile forms on your face, even as your hand makes Varadamudrā, and the ever-shifting flames of your anima form a fascimile of a lotus shape. A moment later, when you are sure she saw your reaction, and understood that it was deliberate, you speak: "All flowers need nourishment to grow strong and see the sun. Lady Eiko, would you be so generous as to offer us refreshments?"
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Artemis1992 said:
It would allow her to control the hunger for Chi, it would not eliminate the need for it.

And I assume that an old vampire like her has long since mastered that anyway.
It's a nice trick for young ones to skip the phase where they might vamp out and eat people by accident, but not really useful for experienced monsters.
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Is she already at "can extract chi from air" stage? I genuinely don't know enough about wan kuei to guess. If she isn't, perfect (exaltation backed) control over her hunger for chi might grant her enough control to do it. I really want to hear from QM before guessing, really.

In any case, MiS is not the main point of my vote. The main point is to agree to help her, in a way that likely doesn't trigger any pre-set orders from Emma-O.

Restoring Emma-O to righteousness seems like a good and proper epic exalted quest. And is a good practice for restoring the fallen.
 
Yog said:
Is she already at "can extract chi from air" stage? I genuinely don't know enough about wan kuei to guess. If she isn't, perfect (exaltation backed) control over her hunger for chi might grant her enough control to do it. I really want to hear from QM before guessing, really.
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If she is or not depends mostly on Emma-O.
It is quite possibly that she was Dharma 6 back before selling out, but as I understand Alratan that doesn't mean much, not anymore.

Besides, drinking breath or ambient Chi are not functions of control, but of enlightenment, of advancement in the Dharma.
I really doubt MiS could allow a Wan Kuei to reach those stages before their time, it would merely prevent them from over-eating or frenzying with their normal feeding-methods.
 
Yog said:
It would at least alleviate her need for chi, as I understand it. Same as it does for whampire hunger. And we have little else tangible to offer at the moment.

@DragonParadox just to make sure, what would the effects be on Eiko (as far as Molly and Usum understand) from being placed under MiS effects?
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It would likely prevent the Yama King from reverting her to Chih -Mei since that uses her inherent hunger against her, but all the other unplesant facts of being Akuma are beyond the Charm. You would need False Spring Beckon.
 
Artemis1992 said:
Huge boost in Quintessence and a reduced difficulty for some magic, in exchange for physical flaws?
Doesn't really look like Kincaid at all, unless he's a very subtle and Paradox-avoiding Mage that can only use careful body-enhancement and some subtly physic-bending to make his actionhero-abilties work.
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Paradox doesn't apply here in the first place. Dresden could kill a giant eldritch demon with hellfire infused evocation on live television or in a stadium packed with thousands of people with no metaphysical consequences at all. The social and political consequences would be a real bitch though.

This does mean some mage stuff needs rebalanced though.
 
BronzeTongue said:
Paradox doesn't apply here in the first place. Dresden could kill a giant eldritch demon with hellfire infused evocation on live television or in a stadium packed with thousands of people with no metaphysical consequences at all. The social and political consequences would be a real bitch though.

This does mean some mage stuff needs rebalanced though.
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Sorry, wrong tab.
 
DragonParadox said:
It would likely prevent the Yama King from reverting her to Chih -Mei since that uses her inherent hunger against her, but all the other unplesant facts of being Akuma are beyond the Charm. You would need False Spring Beckon.
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Would she feel MiS set in? Thomas did, but it affected his hunger.

In any case, that's still something we very much want to give her right now. It would allow her to make a choice without fear of immediate repercussions.
 
Yog said:
Is she already at "can extract chi from air" stage? I genuinely don't know enough about wan kuei to guess. If she isn't, perfect (exaltation backed) control over her hunger for chi might grant her enough control to do it. I really want to hear from QM before guessing, really.

In any case, MiS is not the main point of my vote. The main point is to agree to help her, in a way that likely doesn't trigger any pre-set orders from Emma-O.

Restoring Emma-O to righteousness seems like a good and proper epic exalted quest. And is a good practice for restoring the fallen.
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Lesser Akuma don't have a dharma anymore, so can't natively feed on anything except the flesh of humans or other supernatural creatures. Their Yama King can grant them the ability to feed on blood or breath if they want, but that's a bonus they can't do automatically.

Only greater akuma can feed on the chi from the world rather than a person.

Yog said:
Would she feel MiS set in? Thomas did, but it affected his hunger.

In any case, that's still something we very much want to give her right now. It would allow her to make a choice without fear of immediate repercussions.
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It wouldn't, as Yama Kings have a kill switch built into their lesser akuma, allowing them to destroy them at will.
 
Not really enthused by any of the current options. I don't want to commit to actually helping her, but I am curious about what she thinks we can do for her. Or rather, what she'll tell us she wants us to do.

My bet is that there'll be a backstab involved at some point to harvest the exaltation for some ill-conceived attempt to force the issue on Emma-O.

Even if we could give her something remotely resembling trust or benefit of the doubt, which we absolutely shouldn't do with anything at all, one greater Akuma is still a serious problem for us. We have no business trying something like this on any sort of relevant timetable.

Starting a fight here seems like a waste though.
 
BronzeTongue said:
Not really enthused by any of the current options. I don't want to commit to actually helping her, but I am curious about what she thinks we can do for her. Or rather, what she'll tell us she wants us to do.

My bet is that there'll be a backstab involved at some point to harvest the exaltation for some ill-conceived attempt to force the issue on Emma-O.

Even if we could give her something remotely resembling trust or benefit of the doubt, which we absolutely shouldn't do with anything at all, one greater Akuma is still a serious problem for us. We have no business trying something like this on any sort of relevant timetable.

Starting a fight here seems like a waste though.
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We can reasonably guess that she's sincere based on NWS and what she considers her greatest sin. There might be a backstab involved, but right now we could use a temporary ally, as the Greater Akuma is still a great threat. And, if nothing else, if she sees our full-out combat prowess, I don't think she'll be that eager to betray us.

Right now, we have two basic options:
1) Fight her
2) Not fight her

I am for not fighting her.
 
If we don't fight her here, what happens next? Best case, we leave and hope she doesn't go against us later?
 
Worth keeping in mind that supernaturals generally value their word, so if you could somehow extract a promise from her not to fight her in such a way that keeps her will from being over-ruled by her superior they would most likely hold.
 
Screw it, I'll toss a write in on the pile.

[X] Plan Eikonomics
-[X] Attempt to determine how Eiko plans to do this, what she might ask of Molly, and what she can offer in return
-[X] Stunt: Meeting Eiko's eyes, something in them almost resonates.
—[X] A creature cast in darkness, asking her to save her master from the hell that he rules with an iron fist and is caged in with iron bars. In the depths of her heart, where sublime certainty had planted itself in a moment where she was anything but, there is an echo of familiarity.
—[X] Hope is not a plan, but it is a start. "To each grain of rice, it and its closest fellows are as precious as any flower." Molly says with a lightness that belies the seriousness carved in every line of her face.
-[X] "So to is it for the sun, moon, and even the brightest stars. It is to their detriment that their sorrows blind them to those of others. Who knows what might be possible, if rice can reach heaven or a star can taste the secrets of the earth"

Probably overdid it with the dialog, I was primarily trying to prompt her via the metaphor we're using to give us her full pitch.

It gets there by way of rebuking her lack of empathy but it brings provides a convenient stepping point for bringing in a description of what the hell she wants the flower, sun/moon, and stars to do together so I figure it balances out.

The plan name is mostly just for the pun, but also because this is technically a business negotiation and a study of Eiko's mentality if you squint a little.
 
DragonParadox said:
Worth keeping in mind that supernaturals generally value their word, so if you could somehow extract a promise from her not to fight her in such a way that keeps her will from being over-ruled by her superior they would most likely hold.
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That does assume that Emma-O hasn't given her a standing order to obey his greater akuma.
 
[x] Yog

We are exalted, trying to take on impossible things is our norm, succeeding at it is par for the course given time, let's try and redeem Emma-O, and as such not fight the one who wants it.

Edit:

Well, this plan is working on that too it seems, so:

[x] BronzeTongue
 
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Nyarky said:
[x] Yog

We are exalted, trying to take on impossible things is our norm, succeeding at it is par for the course given time, let's try and redeem Emma-O, and as such not fight the one who wants it.
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Also, Kakuri probably has Ebon Dragon('s corpse) buried deep under it. That's definitely worth looting.
 
Yog said:
Best case we convince her that siding with us and entering our service is serving the best interest of Emma-O in remaking him as the god he was. We then get an epic quest of helping her do it.
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That's not realistic.

The moment she openly sides with us, Emma-O can give new instructions to betray us or just kill herself.

We can't stop him from seeing this and we can't stop him from giving new orders to a waking or sleeping Eiko.

Even if we reach some kind of understanding there's still a high chance she'll have to fight us, either now, or in an hour when we attack her boss, or maybe if we are lucky at some later point.
She sold he soul, now she's done.

I went into this with the hope that she serves Emma-O willingly or under some kind of mundane pressure, but it's been obvious that Emma-O teally does own her, so there's nothing we can do now.
 
Yog said:
We can reasonably guess that she's sincere based on NWS and what she considers her greatest sin. There might be a backstab involved, but right now we could use a temporary ally, as the Greater Akuma is still a great threat. And, if nothing else, if she sees our full-out combat prowess, I don't think she'll be that eager to betray us.

Right now, we have two basic options:
1) Fight her
2) Not fight her

I am for not fighting her.
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She's sincere in her desire to keep her powers and escape her slavery. That doesn't make her trustworthy, except in the sense that we can be reasonably sure she'll prioritize that over anything else.

If she's willing to play the game she's trying right now I wouldn't bet on her being particularly gutless in practice either.

She wasn't willing to let go, but she's still acting on a desire to spiritually manipulate her demon lord boss.

This does come down to fighting her or or fighting her, but the context around that changes which option is preferable.

A really good trick and something set up that allows this to be a long term -as in as essence level or two from now at least- operation would incline me towards helping her.

If she had degrees of support we could provide, and wasn't banking on us carrying the effort with exalted powers I'd also be more inclined to try negotiating something.


On the other hand if she can't articulate a clear approach of some kind, it relies on us doing everything, or puts us in a position where she could do something like sell us out to Emma-O in exchange for ownership of her soul and a severance package including all her current powers then I'd rather bite the bullet now.

Nyarky said:
[x] Yog

We are exalted, trying to take on impossible things is our norm, succeeding at it is par for the course given time, let's try and redeem Emma-O, and as such not fight the one who wants it.

Edit:

Well, this plan is working on that too it seems, so:

[x] BronzeTongue
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To be clear, I'm only working in that direction in terms of seeing what her idea is.

Exalts do impossible stuff all the time, but they do have limits and some ideas are just stupid even for them. I don't want to sign on to something without hearing the whole arrangement laid out first.
 
BronzeTongue said:
To be clear, I'm only working in that direction in terms of seeing what her idea is.

Exalts do impossible stuff all the time, but they do have limits and some ideas are just stupid even for them. I don't want to sign on to something without hearing the whole arrangement laid out first.
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I know, but it is still leagues better than the knee jerk reaction of *welp, guess it's time to kill her right there right now*

We barely learned her goal, giving up on it seems premature.
 
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