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Green Flame Rising (Exalted vs Dresden Files)

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zxzx24 said:
"Defend myself from the enemies I may or may not have." Is a very sidereal line of thinking. Also insane.
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I only barely know what a Sidereal is, but I don't think it is strange for Molly to be concerned about dangers and potential enemies, both to herself and her family. She's already had a very bad experience with Winter Court Fey, has a potential death sentence hanging over her head from the White Council, and has just become some sort of Demon Empress-in-waiting creature.

And that ignores all the other supernatural factions who might want a piece of her, or just to kill her. Look at how Mouse, the best doggy, reacted to her presence through no fault of her own.

This isn't to say that any of these potential enemies even have Molly on their radar, since she should be a non-entity to most of them at this point, but from her POV the paranoia would be justified.
 
DragonParadox said:
It should be noted that while your experience for the last 24 hours has been a lot of danger the same is not true for the 17 years before that. Molly has had a very safe childhood only with the knowledge that her dad is a paladin fighting monsters with a holly sword. So her general level of danger had spiked recently, but it is not something she is inured to.
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That's the point. If she's not inured to it, this huge spike in danger is a shock, and it should effect her, and her thinking.

She is no longer safe just being protected at home, for multiple reasons. One is that she herself is seeking out danger by going to learn about things, two is the White Council may come to chop her head off and the organization itself is one that Harry is part of, and is in general a good thing, but is still coming to maybe kill her, there is Winter which...Enemy, Nightmares etc, inheriting Hell powers and all the lore (with maybe some implications that Kakuri or Lanka could come and try to retake their superweapon if they could, I think. This is my personal speculation).

That's a huge change from safety.

Edit: Sidereals are great, and Sidereal Martial Arts are extremely cool. That is all.
 
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Goldfish said:
I only barely know what a Sidereal is, but I don't think it is strange for Molly to be concerned about dangers and potential enemies, both to herself and her family. She's already had a very bad experience with Winter Court Fey, has a potential death sentence hanging over her head from the White Council, and has just become some sort of Demon Empress-in-waiting creature.

And that ignores all the other supernatural factions who might want a piece of her, or just to kill her. Look at how Mouse, the best doggy, reacted to her presence through no fault of her own.

This isn't to say that any of these potential enemies even have Molly on their radar, since she should be a non-entity to most of them at this point, but from her POV the paranoia would be justified.
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From a characterization angle no. Sorry I still dont buy it.

Now a bunch of questers powergaming to try and get a leg up over imaginary foes... that makes much more sense to me.

Not that I am saying we shouldnt take by Rage recast. I do find it rather impressive. If not useful right now.

Edit:
Huh, Valkir repeated what you said point for point pretty much.

Well what's good for one reply I suppose...
 
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zxzx24 said:
From a characterization angle no. Sorry I still dont buy it.

Now a bunch of questers powergaming to try and get a leg up over imaginary foes... that makes much more sense to me.

Not that I am saying we shouldnt take by Rage recast. I do find it rather impressive. If not useful right now.
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So if you were in this position, you would not seek further safety?
 
6 exp for by Rage Recast still leaves 4 for other stuff if we manage to make it to 10 before the buy point.

That tool charm would be nice, but we don't exactly have anything to alloy with it to make anything we know will be useful.

I think taking a sorcery path might be interesting since we could start getting a handle on the magic system, but I have no idea what source is being used for that so I can't exactly pick out a particular one to argue for.

Edit: autocorrect again
 
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Valkhir said:
So if you were in this position, you would not seek further safety?
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If I was in Molly's position. And I wanted to seek further Safety?

Well currently we dont give a shit about safety were after power full stop.

If I had just been kidnapped, tortured, and given super powers I would probably look into defending myself, my home, my loved ones, etc.

Maybe take some time off, call in sick.

Catch up with what I missed...

Talk to my parents who have been fighting a supernatural war for my entire life and for longer than I had been alive.

Look into home defense. Defense for my siblings who also could have been grabbed.

It depends. Molly has a lot of options and screentime is limited.
 
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BronzeTongue said:
6 exp for by Rage Recast still leaves 4 for other stuff if we manage to make it to 10 before the but point.

That tool charm would be nice, but we don't exactly have anything to alloy with it to make anything we know will be useful.

I think taking a sorcery path might be interesting since we could start getting a handle on the magic system, but I have no idea what source is being used for that so I can't exactly pick out a particular one to argue for.
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This is the source for sorcery. If you guys are interested I will C&P some path interests.

Unlike exalt charms which you just get from the blooming of your exaltation sorcery paths are things you learn either from books or from a teacher as they deal with the world that is.
 
zxzx24 said:
If I had just been kidnapped, tortured, and given super powers I would probably look into defending myself, my home, my loved ones, etc.
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Okay, understandable. So why do you think materially, and personally being able to protect herself and her loved ones more doesn't fit the characterization? In order to protect herself and them from any threat that may exist.

She didn't see the Winter thing coming. Nothing promises that any danger will come when expected.

I don't get your train of thought.
 
Valkhir said:
Okay, understandable. So why do you think materially, and personally being able to protect herself and her loved ones more doesn't fit the characterization? In order to protect herself and them from any threat that may exist.

She didn't see the Winter thing coming. Nothing promises that any danger will come when expected.

I don't get your train of thought.
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If we were at school. And the eldest fetch came to steal our younger sibling Hope. While we arent there and arent even aware that is happening. What would we do about it?

Walk me through that scenario.
 
zxzx24 said:
If we were at school. And the eldest fetch came to steal our younger sibling Hope. While we arent there and arent even aware that is happening. What would we do about it?

Walk me through that scenario.
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Find out where the Fetch took Hope, prepare accordingly then break down the barriers to whatever place it took Hope and slaughter the Fetch, then take Hope home.

Use whatever means is necessary, examples include our friendly Wizard Harry, summoned demons, summoned spirits, binding other Fetches and forcing them to cough up info etc.

The part where our contribution matters is most is destroying the Fetch safely and bringing Hope home through whatever may stand in our way, as that is the part that our connections cannot replicate or do better at this point. And even with more Charms, they are not suited for this.

Unless we make demons constantly watch over all out siblings, and order them protected on pain of Spirit-killing the demons into one of the various Hells if they fail, we can't do more, but we can solve the situation better.

If we fail the step where we can materially help her, that would be on us.

Edit: Infernal tools are simply not really suited for finding things like this. And neither really is Ancient Sorcery. What they can do is get minions, kill things, become powerful and do many things using these tools.
 
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zxzx24 said:
If we were at school. And the eldest fetch came to steal our younger sibling Hope. While we arent there and arent even aware that is happening. What would we do about it?

Walk me through that scenario.
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Well, we just murdered the eldest Fetch with nuclear hellfire, so I call that a solved problem.

If it comes down to it we charge in and do the same to the second-eldest too.
 
Valkhir said:
Find out where the Fetch took Hope, prepare accordingly then break down the barriers to whatever place it took Hope and slaughter the Fetch, then take Hope home.

Use whatever means is necessary, examples include our friendly Wizard Harry, summoned demons, summoned spirits, binding other Fetches and forcing them to cough up info etc.

The part where our contribution matters is most is destroying the Fetch safely and bringing Hope home through whatever may stand in our way, as that is the part that our connections cannot replicate or do better at this point. And even with more Charms, they are not suited for this.

Unless we make demons constantly watch over all out siblings, and order them protected on pain of Spirit-killing the demons into one of the various Hells if they fail, we can't do more, but we can solve the situation better.

If we fail the step where we can materially help her, that would be on us.

Edit: Infernal tools are simply not really suited for finding things like this. And neither really is Ancient Sorcery. What they can do is get minions, kill things, become powerful and do many things using these tools.
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If you really want to keep someone safe inside your world soul is probably the safest you can get, but you do not have one of those yet and there are obvious trade offs.
 
Valkhir said:
Find out where the Fetch took Hope, prepare accordingly then break down the barriers to whatever place it took Hope and slaughter the Fetch, then take Hope home.

Use whatever means is necessary, examples include our friendly Wizard Harry, summoned demons, summoned spirits, binding other Fetches and forcing them to cough up info etc.

The part where our contribution matters is most is destroying the Fetch safely and bringing Hope home through whatever may stand in our way, as that is the part that our connections cannot replicate or do better at this point. And even with more Charms, they are not suited for this.

Unless we make demons constantly watch over all out siblings, and order them protected on pain of Spirit-killing the demons into one of the various Hells if they fail, we can't do more, but we can solve the situation better.

If we fail the step where we can materially help her, that would be on us.
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We have no power to bind or compel any creature of darkness. Aside from Usums advice. Which is many millenia out of date compared to Harry's or lashes advice about binding or compelling creatures of darkness.

Finding out how to get somewhere. Or anywhere in the never never would be a good start yeah.

Cracked Cell circumvention is no help getting into prisons.

I expect the fetch to fold like tissue paper in direct combat yes. Then discorporate and come back later. Or for a new one to get promoted and immediately set about doing what the previous one did. Sending them to hell is convenient, but dont know if that would stop mab from promoting someone to replace them.

We are Unga Bunga woman. We can just about take care of ourselves, and even then mostly from conventional threats to bodily autonomy.

I'm not opposed to putting more Unga in our Bunga stick, but like... be aware of what were doing?
 
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DragonParadox said:
If you really want to keep someone safe inside your world soul is probably the safest you can get, but you do not have one of those yet and there are obvious trade offs.
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Actually, this brings up an interesting question. If we somehow can convince our family to move into our Kingdom and just live in one of the great cities there, well if it it has citizenry, cities etc then its no problem but lmao convincing everyone...

Anyway the real question is...Would the angel guards also come with them and reside in our Kingdom inside our soul?

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zxzx24 said:
I'm not opposed to putting more Unga in our Bunga stick, but like... be aware of what were doing?
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Okay, I am pretty sure we have just completely different thought processes because I have no idea how this fits into it all. It's a true statement and its right, but I don't know what its implying.

Lets just say we think differently and leave it at that, because I don't get it.
 
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Valkhir said:
Okay, I am pretty sure we have just completely different thought processes because I have no idea how this fits into it all. It's a true statement and its right, but I don't know what its implying.
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Becoming a deadlier sword fighter doesnt meaningfully improve our safety or our families safety. it has other merits, but safety isnt one of them.

I'm pretty sure a dematerialized spirit could clown on us all day.

Especially if we cant use wizard sight or magic circles.
 
zxzx24 said:
Becoming a deadlier sword fighter doesnt meaningfully improve our safety or our families safety. it has other merits, but safety isnt one of them.

I'm pretty sure a dematerialized spirit could clown on us all day.

Especially if we cant use wizard sight or magic circles.
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Dematerialized spirits can't affect materialized things, so no.

It would have to materialize if it wanted to do anything to us.

And if it can affect the material world, it's not dematerialized.

This was a thing with Exalted gods and elementals, but I don't think it works like that in ExWoD, because demat spirits don't exist, they just go the Umbra. Unless I forgot something.
 
And I mean shit guys.

We went to school, and then immediately to Harry's house.

And you wanna claim molly is suddenly super paranoid and jaded?

Edit:
@Valkhir Yes they can. You cant smack someone from Twilight (without certain spirit powers) but magic works just fine.

Curses, magical attacks, mind bending...

Just handily keep out of sword range.

Hell I think Flight would give us serious issues.
 
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zxzx24 said:
Becoming a deadlier sword fighter doesnt meaningfully improve our safety or our families safety. it has other merits, but safety isnt one of them.

I'm pretty sure a dematerialized spirit could clown on us all day.

Especially if we cant use wizard sight or magic circles.
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If we have trouble with spirits we can buy the appropriate Charms to see and kill those too, but right now that is not a known or relevant problem.
 
DragonParadox said:
This is the source for sorcery. If you guys are interested I will C&P some path interests.

Unlike exalt charms which you just get from the blooming of your exaltation sorcery paths are things you learn either from books or from a teacher as they deal with the world that is.
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Thanks.

Is sorcery something we could learn from Dresden since he knows the rules of the world that is even though he doesn't use essence, or would this be more involved?

Not that I'd complain about it being complicated to get access to, but I don't want to advocate for spending exp on something without a clearer idea of how to actually get it to work.

zxzx24 said:
We have no power to bind or compel any creature of darkness. Aside from Usums advice. Which is many millenia out of date compared to Harry's or lashes advice about binding or compelling creatures of darkness.

Finding out how to get somewhere. Or anywhere in the never never would be a good start yeah.

Cracked Cell circumvention is no help getting into prisons.

I expect the fetch to fold like tissue paper in direct combat yes. Then discorporate and come back later. Or for a new one to get promoted and immediately set about doing what the previous one did. Sending them to hell is convenient, but dont know if that would stop mab from promoting someone to replace them.

We are Unga Bunga woman. We can just about take care of ourselves, and even then mostly from conventional threats to bodily autonomy.

I'm not opposed to putting more Unga in our Bunga stick, but like... be aware of what were doing?
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For what it's worth I'd also like to diversify into abilities that have more flexibility than effectively being Pokémon moves, in particular with more general magic.

That being said, if By Rage Recast can actually be considered a good cap for our current combat build I can see the value in taking it now.

At that point we'd likely still have 4 exp to spend on other skills, and in our follow up actions we could more freely spend resources on things that aren't direct combat skills.

If we did what I'd be tempted to do and spent it all on cool magic powers we'd probably have to spend a lot of time following up on figuring out how to use what we have to keep ourselves and others safe.

Instead we could focus on cool stuff like investigating what the fuck happened to reality, or trying to gain political power in the supernatural community by becoming a magic item industrial tycoon.
 
BronzeTongue said:
Thanks.

Is sorcery something we could learn from Dresden since he knows the rules of the world that is even though he doesn't use essence, or would this be more involved?

Not that I'd complain about it being complicated to get access to, but I don't want to advocate for spending exp on something without a clearer idea of how to actually get it to work.
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Yes, he can teach you within the abilities he has himself, though you will also have to convince him. If you take 'wizard magic' this vote you will also get the list of potential paths. Otherwise you will have to ask him in the future
 
It might be different in old world of darkness or dresden files, but I have never known spirits to need to be materialized to use numina and influences.

What can Ephemeral Entities do in Twilight? - Onyx Path Forums

In Twilight a Spirit or other Ephemeral Entity is technically on this side of the Gauntlet and does not need the reaching condition correct? So it can use influences on material beings to change the resonant condition to Open or does it need reaching to do so? How about Numina like Blast? Can...
forum.theonyxpath.com

Heck even reaching is reaching across the gauntlet. A completely different dimension.

Artemis1992 said:
If we have trouble with spirits we can buy the appropriate Charms to see and kill those too, but right now that is not a known or relevant problem.
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Thanks. I knew that. This is completely off the track for the point I was originally trying to make, but I suppose it's my fault for getting this side tracked to begin with.

Also you should be worried about them. Dematerialized Spirits are fucking everywhere in dresden files. They bought his Groceries :V

BronzeTongue said:
For what it's worth I'd also like to diversify into abilities that have more flexibility than effectively being Pokémon moves, in particular with more general magic.
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Molly used Fire Slash?

BronzeTongue said:
That being said, if By Rage Recast can actually be considered a good cap for our current combat build I can see the value in taking it now.
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Yeah, I would vote for it as well. It promises to be very cool and fun.

It's just not going to meaningfully impact our or anyone we care about "safety."
 
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