Out of curiosity, what did you need polar integration for?
General Exalted Thread
azoicennead
Overly-Affectionate Zombie Squad
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You continue to miss the point I'm making. Somehow. Despite me explicitly explaining it multiple times in the post you're quoting.
Enjoyable =/= good.
I said as much in my post! I realize you're making that argument!
Bursting Eagerness Soul
Threadwalking Rating Machine
- Location
- Wisconsin
This is possibly the best description of Exalted I have ever seen. Bravo.
Also, thank you for reminding me how ridiculously sci-fi Chiaroscuro was before it got nuked.
The only reason that should be necessary is if they don't really have a database up. If they do, well, I'm not familiar with every system, but any actual database method getting that information is amazingly basic. Even if it's not input in the best possible manner, that's a very, very basic search method, and the information is pretty basic as well.
Jon Chung
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Exalted is a post-post(-post...) apocalyptic hybrid fantasy/sci-fi setting with a great elevator pitch. The setting and the gameplay concepts attached to that setting sells the game. The mechanics have never been better than shit, but the premise was excellent then and remains excellent now.
azoicennead
Overly-Affectionate Zombie Squad
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Then why do you continue to act like "it's enjoyable" is a defense against criticisms of the design philosophy?I said as much in my post! I realize you're making that argument!
You say it, but then completely ignore it when responding. You keep treating enjoyment as an inherent feature of the system, when enjoyment is at least as much about your approach, your attitude, and your preferences as it is about what you're actually doing. That you enjoy 3e says more about you than it does about 3e.
It's actually Science-Fantasy which, stupidly enough, is something different.
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...Or maybe I was thinking that you meant something else?
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Um...
As in, I do believe it has genuine merit apart from 'being fun.' Am I somehow being unclear on this? Are you particularly keen on me making the argument that enjoyable = good? Because you seem more frustrated than anything else.
Calm down, guy.
azoicennead
Overly-Affectionate Zombie Squad
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What are those merits?
What about the entire rest of the system?
Why does it need to be a thing at all? Like this is Exalted, not Fading Suns. The technology of the Second Empire doesn't need to be understood by the Guild's engineers.
On the lost technology scale I think Exalted works better when there's hints of that former prowess rather than "you can build and interact with First Age things" especially when that means you need to fit "a big sword" and "tactical nuclear weapons" on the same 1-5 point scale.
I think is works much better somewhere between those two points.
The Solars of the first age had millenia of peace and a well-designed infrastructure behind them when they made the meanest crafts of their age.
You don't.
Pardon me for not liking "Shit Ages" settings.
As an example;
A Fire Pearl, something that was re-usable ammunition in the First Age, is used as a glorified lighter in the Second Age.
That's the kind of thing I'm talking about.
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So provide some fluff for the great accomplishments of the first age don't give out any crunch? Possible with a sidebar saying the system is scaled to model the second age not the majesty of the first so first age artifacts should be treated as plot devices if they become relevant and any examples of it should be a big deal that the plot can be centered around.
I think you're reading a lot into what he's saying there. At least regarding the fails immediately and jury-rigged. Things can't be repaired, because you can no longer build the tools to build the tools etc etc that allow you to build the piece needed to repair it. You might be able to jury rig a replacement, but that's going to be temperamental and less efficient than the proper version.
And while first age stuff doesn't just fail, it is designed for a world that doesn't exist anymore. It's like bringing back a nuclear submarine or a F-22 to the middle ages. Even if you have the technical knowledge about it's maintenance, you don't have the infrastructure devoted to making fuel and weapons for them. So the F22 is great, until you run out of missiles, bullets, and oil, and then it's just a really interesting sculpture. Or a source for spare parts.
And often times you don't have the maintenance procedures or even the knowledge about how some of this shit works. Like, imagine trying to do maintenance on a nuclear reactor without knowing about radiation. That's the level 99% of Creation is at when dealing with First Age stuff.
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Or things get used for stuff they weren't originally meant for;
an old sign gets used a shield because it's made of an extremely sturdy material that nobody knows how to replicate,
an crashed and overgrown vehicle is thought to be a temple or shrine to some forgotten god,
an old piece of training equipment is now used as a method of punishment,
etc.
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Or a Terraforming facility(probably a powerful Manse, or specifically designed Demesne) malfunctions and begins to "terraform" the locals...
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Jon Chung
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Think of this more like a Fallout game - you can loot and use stuff made before the apocalypse that destroyed the infrastructure required to manufacture said stuff, but it's a distinctly finite resource unless you manage to rebuild the infrastructure, a significantly more difficult task.
In the 'modern' exalted setting, people can make special shields, or unique torture methods. The first age stuff can be impressive(their signs are as tough as our battleshields!). But the truly game changing stuff is gone: you can't have a functioning Shield helocarrier with the tech of the 1000's AD. You definitely can't build one, and even if you found one, the resources needed to support it don't exist. You can strip it down for useful stuff, but all you're end up with is the hints about the prowess of the first age, not the actual prowess at your disposal.
Exactly, a comfortable point between "Nothing at all is left" and "It's all fuckin Ragnarok-proof".
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- Location
- The end of all things
Though really, if your sword is comparable to a tactical nuclear weapon... you need a better sword.
vicky_molokh
Posthuman spidery thingy.
- Location
- Kyïv, Ukraine
Sure, Lunars. Did he ever regret removing crossbows, or making the Guild, or the Empress?
Which means that either the Default Exalted Campaign needs to last that long, or this is a mischaracterisation of what PCs should be able to achieve.
As someone who self-identifies as more technically-minded, I of course don't like this idea. But as far as I remember, WW was always more on the 'natural language' side of things, and its fans (the majority of those I encountered, anyway) liked it that way and were opposed to attempts/requests for a rewording.
Speaking of the elevator pitch, I was intrigued by the idea that the Second Age was a greater age than modernity, that what we achieve today is but a faint shadow of even the lessened Age of Sorrows, that the magics of the Technocracy are small time stuff compared to that which was during the Exalted gameline, which is in turn small time compared to the First Age. (The need for infrastructure is actually one example of such lessening; it's the difference between the mythic master craftsman who needs no tools and the modern assembly-line operator.)
But in some ways, for me, Exalted failed to deliver that aspect of their elevator pitch, as much of the world still felt like typically low-tech fantasy. Sure, from a First Age PoV, the Age of Sorrows is supposed to be the shit ages, but I still don't quite feel that compared to the Age of Sorrow modernity is set in the shit ages, and that's a disappointment and undelivery.
I dunno, I was an edition warrior when GURPS 4e came out (I happened to be a 3e fan back then), and I don't recall the fights being anywhere near as nasty. Likewise, I don't recall the camps of various Vampire editions being so fighty in Kyïv (the interest in VtR seemed to wane without much of a bang at all), and while people were slightly skeptical of D&D3e, they always seemed reasonably polite about their views when talking to the newfans.
Also, I really wonder who started it. I know that the devs are abrasive, but so are many fans, even when talking about non-3e stuff.
Hmm...to be fair, 2e Core (Page 179, Charm Concept: Essence) points out that ten mots of Solar Essence is easily equivalent of Excalibur. More, every Solar has more power in their personal essence pool than an atomic bomb. Your sword probably IS as powerful as a nuclear weapon in terms of energy...if not direct destructive power.
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I think the nastiest fights, other than 2e/3E exalted, that I personally saw were honestly about the transition from DnD3.5 to DnD4. Though a LOT of that was with the changes to Forgotten Realms.
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I think the nastiest fights, other than 2e/3E exalted, that I personally saw were honestly about the transition from DnD3.5 to DnD4. Though a LOT of that was with the changes to Forgotten Realms.
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- Location
- Ottawa
Edition wars get nasty when things that (at least some) fans love are changed.
So edition changes that boil down to refinements are generally pretty peaceful. It's the ones that shift paradigms that spawn anger.
I never liked that bit. What does it even mean, to say that your essence pool contains a nuke's worth of energy?
Are we supposed to use that to calculate a mote-to-joule ratio? Why would anyone want one of those?
So edition changes that boil down to refinements are generally pretty peaceful. It's the ones that shift paradigms that spawn anger.
I never liked that bit. What does it even mean, to say that your essence pool contains a nuke's worth of energy?
Are we supposed to use that to calculate a mote-to-joule ratio? Why would anyone want one of those?
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