Dice pool inflation is best avoided, and this bumps dice caps to 31 + Accuracy.

How so? Maximum pool without Charms is still 11, and of course you would limit the Ability contribution to the relevant dice caps to the value used in the formula (so a Solar with Strength 4 Dexterity 4 Melee 5 would still only be able to add 10 dice from Charms).
 
Oh, I see. Misread.

Eh, I guess it works. It adds a bunch of extra calculation and doesn't stop Dex from being a strictly superior stat, though, since Dex still applies to defenses. Breaks animal statblocks, too.
 
Hm. I think there's a better answer than this or a flat +4, and which neatly solves the Dexterity problem without forcing you to swap to Kerisgame attributes.

For attacks that would normally add Strength to damage, calculate your attack pool as (Strength + Dexterity, maximum 5) + Ability + Accuracy and your damage pool as Damage + (Strength + Dexterity - 5, minimum 0). For attacks with the Crossbow or Flame tag (or for firearms) use the formula with Perception instead of Strength.

The problem you're going to run into there is that it means that pretty much everyone will be nearly hitting the dice cap from Attributes. Remember, an average human has Dex 2, Str 2, Per 2 - so that means that everyone's attack pools will be higher. That'll shift the metagame and the average attack pool size.
 
#2/#3/#6 is a pretty significant change - you're going for a more realism-oriented tone? I'm of the view that one can fluff Evasion-based actions as 'I took cover' rather than 'I twirled between the bullets', but putting it as a specific hardcoding is viable.

This will cause some balance tweaking to happen though - if you kill Dodge you have no defensive charms anymore, you can write more under Firearms or fold some of the Dodge ones in.

Yeah, a combination of "realism-tone" and that I dislike Dodge as its own ability. Having a battle group of riflemen using Dodge or Athletics as the ability to defend against bullets just seems... weird.

I would fold some Dodge charms into Firearms (such as disengage boosters), add some mechanically similar charms that boost Cover, and probably include a dodge-like PD based on Split-Second Killshot Evasion from 2E Shards.

#5, I'm not sure you'd really need any such restriction. Presumably 'single' shot weapons fired into battle groups are actually firing a lot of bullets, not just one. If you want to revamp it so area weapons are needed to effectively kill battle groups, it's viable, but that's more on the 'adjusting battle group rules' than going towards modern.

I'm worried that large groups of soldiers might be a little too easy to kill without giving them more health or reducing damage somewhat. You can reduce 1000 soldiers to effectively 100 just by doing ~12 points of damage from withering attacks, against a Soak that's only +5 over that of an individual soldier. This works better in Exalted because it represents morale, but morale is relatively less important than attrition increasingly throughout the 20th century. (That's not to say it's unimportant in an absolute sense.)

#8 is nonononono. That was originally what I had as Blast to be honest, but it was in no way balanced. Compare it to charms - 'single attack roll hits everyone' is, decisive-wise, more powerful than the actual multi-attack Solar charms, which split up the initiative into a handful of attacks.

Withering could be viable but it's hard to find comparisons, most multiattack charms are Decisive-based (and no matter what you need to make sure withering area attacks only damage the init of most of the people targeted and don't give it back to the attacker, if one grenade reaps init damage from five guys at once and pours all that init into the grenadier things break horrifically.

Yeah, you're right.

#10 is pretty viable (it's definitely inclined towards a much more Firearm focus with higher granularity between guns and types, I aimed more for the least disruptive conversion I could)

I'm envisioning several clusters of Charm sequences hanging off the main tree to let you focus on being a sort of gunslinger pistol type, or a "heavy weapons" guy, or the perfect sniper, etc.

The problem you're going to run into there is that it means that pretty much everyone will be nearly hitting the dice cap from Attributes. Remember, an average human has Dex 2, Str 2, Per 2 - so that means that everyone's attack pools will be higher. That'll shift the metagame and the average attack pool size.

I agree, I just think the way "strongman" builds are so heavily penalized is gross.

Hm, instead you could let people just always use the larger stat for accuracy and the smaller for damage. This doesn't inflate dice pools as much, although it does mean that a 3-3 build is still worse than a 5-1 or a 1-5.
 
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Maybe it would be better to just average Strength and Dexterity to get your "base attack" pool, that you then add the relevant skill to in order to get your actual pool. That would let you have distinctions between Strength- and Dexterity-based fighters on a fluff level (and through Charms that key off of one or the other) while minimizing the potential for a mechanical godstat. It wouldn't require the full overhaul of the Kerisgame hacks, but would still give some of the intended effects of Physique.

Edit for clarity: your attack pool would end up being [(Strength + Dexterity)/2 + combat ability + specialty/style] before you add any other modifiers like accuracy.

Edit 2: This might end up being a small stealth-buff for Lunars, Alchemicals, and Liminals, due to their focus on Attributes over Abilities (and favored discounts).
 
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I'm worried that large groups of soldiers might be a little too easy to kill without giving them more health or reducing damage somewhat. You can reduce 1000 soldiers to effectively 100 just by doing ~12 points of damage from withering attacks, against a Soak that's only +5 over that of an individual soldier. This works better in Exalted because it represents morale, but morale is relatively less important than attrition increasingly throughout the 20th century. (That's not to say it's unimportant in an absolute sense.)

That's actually reducing it to 500-ish - it cites a Size 4 group as being the size of a Realm dragon, which is 500 troops. So not as crazy as it seems. 100ish is Size 3, so another 11 magnitude after that against +4 Soak.

Of course that's still killing and scaring off a whole lot of doods in a very short period of time, but 'one man versus an army' is pretty core to Exalted's aesthetic.

The precise amount of dudes a sufficiently awesome swordsman should be able to kill and scare off from a group of a thousand soldiers is pretty subject to personal taste.

I'm envisioning several clusters of Charm sequences hanging off the main tree to let you focus on being a sort of gunslinger pistol type, or a "heavy weapons" guy, or the perfect sniper, etc.

Makes sense.

I agree, I just think the way "strongman" builds are so heavily penalized is gross.

Hm, instead you could let people just always use the larger stat for accuracy and the smaller for damage. This doesn't inflate dice pools as much, although it does mean that a 3-3 build is still worse than a 5-1 or a 1-5.

This's been an issue since Ex2, yeah. It was pretty easy to rank physical stats in Ex2 in combat terms. Stamina was the weakest because it applied half its value as soak against lethal damage (which is a good chunk of what we'll be facing). Strength was next, because it provided its full value as an addition to damage - if you were using bashing damage attacks Strength and Stamina broke even, but if you went lethal Stamina dropped to half its value and if you went aggravated it dropped to a value of 'literally nothing'. Stamina got buffed nicely with the transition to Ex3's init system, it's now straight-up on par with Strength.

Dex is, was, and might well always be god. It governs your defence pool, it governs your attack pool, it governs 3/4 of the physical things you can do (Dex + Stealth for sneaking, Dex + Stealth for Larceny, Dex + Athletics for running around, Dex + Pretty Much Anything), and it adds on average half its value to the damage of your attacks as well (ie from having a higher hit roll).

That said, this is a mortal-level comparison - once you go into Ex3 charms the comparison gets a lot more complex, because there absolutely are charms that require having Strength, Dex, or Stamina to leverage (like Fire and Stones Technique, or the multiattack Charms that sometimes rely on Dex to determine how many attacks you can make). If I were designing from the ground up, I'd prefer to keep it balanced at the mortal level and then keep the charms balanced against one another, but if we're tweaking an existing system we need to keep an eye on what the balance looks like in total.

(I don't know whether or not Charms do or do not bring the stats to some kind of ultimate equality - I'd have to go in-depth in the Charms section and ain't nobody got time for that - but if we want to tweak the stat balance we would need to look into it to make sure there isn't actually a rough equilibrium that's being unbalanced by the change on the mortal level)

I'm going to assume it is still an issue for the remainder of this post - I don't remember a sufficient profusion of Str/Sta-leveraging charms to outweigh the Dex-leveraging charms and the mortal-level imbalance - but before actually putting such a fix into play it'd be important to confirm this. (Or scrap the existing charmset entirely, which seems at least partially to be the vector you're going for)

The easiest fix is something like you had in mind, with exactly the flaws you note, but @MJ12 Commando had some thoughts on the matter I found pretty interesting - making encumbrance and fatigue rules have sharper teeth so that a 1-5-1 Str/Dex/Sta guy is still more accurate than a 3-4-3 guy, but is paying for that by his inability to wear any armour or carry the mightiest weapons (currently in Ex3 you can totally wear plate armour and carry a zweihander with 1 Strength), and possibly by breaking down wheezing if he fights too long.

Interesting ideas though it's a much more in-depth project to actually do - at bare minimum it involves upending Ex3's entire weapons/armour paradigm (which just flat-out lacks the granularity to track any such things). I think it's one of the best ideas, since it if executed right achieves mechanical equality and retains mechanical distinctness so that a 3-4-3 guy fights differently from a 2-5-2 guy fights differently from a 5-5-1 guy, but it's easier to build with from the ground up or from Ex2 than to do in Ex3 without having to change a lot of other things.
 
@Pale Wolf

You're coming up with a lot of really interesting ideas, but one thing that's jumping out at me is usability concerns. I don't know what your table experience is, but I have never ever encountered fatigue rules in any game I have played or run- they just don't come up.

Extrapolating, basically any kind of 'Thing' you have to expect the players to track relies on them either already having established good player habits, or an ST that is doing the tracking for them. Exalted already has a huge complexity overhead, so be aware of that going forward.
 
I agree, I just think the way "strongman" builds are so heavily penalized is gross.

Hm, instead you could let people just always use the larger stat for accuracy and the smaller for damage. This doesn't inflate dice pools as much, although it does mean that a 3-3 build is still worse than a 5-1 or a 1-5.

Larger for accuracy and the smaller for damage might work and would be easier than some of what I tried to increase build diversity.

In 2e one of the more effective things I tried that helped equalize Strength and Dexterity was removing the extra Damage from attack successes and re-stating weapons/armor to reflect the lower average damage(also adding Stamina mins for armor). Hungry Tiger Technique and other charms like this re-added it without their additional multiplier. This also make unexpected attacks much less of a problem.

I haven't looked into 3e's charms much, but I'd imagine doing this might be more difficult there.
 
@Pale Wolf

You're coming up with a lot of really interesting ideas, but one thing that's jumping out at me is usability concerns. I don't know what your table experience is, but I have never ever encountered fatigue rules in any game I have played or run- they just don't come up.

Extrapolating, basically any kind of 'Thing' you have to expect the players to track relies on them either already having established good player habits, or an ST that is doing the tracking for them. Exalted already has a huge complexity overhead, so be aware of that going forward.

While I can't claim the credit for the ideas - this was MJ12's idea initially, I just remembered it -I totally agree with this, any fatigue/encumbrance rules would need to be written pretty elegantly to slot them into the basic rules without having to track extra stuff.

That elegance may not even be possible with the existing rules (though Ex3's initiative system lends itself a lot closer to it than Ex2's health levels which required fatigue to be an entirely separate thing to track that never was tracked) - I am basically assuming as a given right now that they're written with that necessary flair, since we're spitballing high concept stuff right now, but actually doing that writing is non-trivial.

I know roughly how I'd slot it into 'how Pale Wolf would do an Exalted combat engine' (I've poked at an init combat engine for Ex2 though I've never really done much dedicated design work and it's largely concepts floating around in my head right now, and literally a one-sentence introduction in a Wordpad document that has yet to have any of those concepts written in it), but fitting it into the existing rules (or writing up the sum total of how I'd do such a combat engine with those rules included) is a project I haven't got the time to poke at in any kind of depth for a couple days.

Part of this is that fatigue generally has a lack of granularity to how it's handled classically, but you actually have encountered fatigue rules. D&D hit points? Those are straight-up 'how much energy and initiative you have', as depleted by defending yourself against getting sworded in the face.

Ex3 initiative can plausibly be rejiggered to this end - or at least, Init is where I'd be looking first if I wanted to implement fatigue rules in Ex3.

Ex2 actually does have fatigue rulesthough as you note they're never actually used.

I would largely avoid that sort of mechanic, because it just flat-out doesn't mesh with existing systems, and lacks granularity. It either doesn't happen, or it happens and you immediately want to fix it - it's less of a 'consideration' and more of a minor disaster to be avoided. Physical energy management isn't an event, it's a constant consideration, so I would want to mesh it into the blob of considerations a fighter has to manage that is Initiative. Like, we've already shovelled distance management, balance, control of the centerline, and tempo (etc etc etc) into Initiative, on a concept level there's no particular reason that minor tiredness and 'ack I've fenced for an hour straight my arms are noodles' (seriously try to avoid doing this, arms are not delicious noodles) can't fall under that.

And what Initiative (or D&D hit points) gives us as a vector is precisely the two things existing fatigue mechanics lack: Enough granularity to come into play rather than being an event that can be avoided and that you really rather would, and meshing into our standard package of 'things we already consider' while playing the game.

Like, I flat-out don't think I could do this in Ex2 without 'adding another thing to track', the granular hooks to do it just don't exist and would need to be created. If I were using Ex2 as-is the best bet would be to massively harshen up fatigue rules (something like forcing that fatigue roll on every Action to toss out a highballed ballpark - something big enough to make it a thing that people constantly have to worry about and factor into their decision-making so if they lack the Sta/Resistance to handle their desired armour they have to tune their desires downwards), but as you note, that just adds management overhead to an already-high-overhead system (my Exalted group absolutely hated managing Ex2's tick system, which I still find weird because I was the one handling it even when not the ST and I never had issues with it...).

Now it's uh 2 AM so I'm gonna have to scoot on you but I'll come back to this later with a bit more crunch if I can - like I said, while I think it's the best solution, it works best from the ground up, and slotting it into Ex3 is at best going to involve revamping the entire combat equipment paradigm, so it's a real big project even if you're not doing it from the ground up.

If you want something quick and easily slotted in without changing the underlying systems, Kuciwalker or Bursting Eagerness Soul have the best solutions I've yet seen - either 'pick an attribute, that is now your Hitting Things attribute' or 'use the average to calculate to-hit and distinguish whether you're Strong, Agile, or Balanced by stunts and fluff and relevant charms'.
 
@Pale Wolf

You're coming up with a lot of really interesting ideas, but one thing that's jumping out at me is usability concerns. I don't know what your table experience is, but I have never ever encountered fatigue rules in any game I have played or run- they just don't come up.

Extrapolating, basically any kind of 'Thing' you have to expect the players to track relies on them either already having established good player habits, or an ST that is doing the tracking for them. Exalted already has a huge complexity overhead, so be aware of that going forward.
I come from a system that does track fatigue, primarily for out-of-combat uses (though being fatigued does impact combat, and there's the optional rule of fast-burning through endurance in combat for a fleeting bonus to damage or defence or speed). However, one of the two people responsible for introducing me to Exalted had experience running a Wuxia campaign with a system that not only tracks out-of-combat fatigue, but also tracks second-to-second short-term fatigue. He said that the experience was largely positive, and encouraged interesting tactics, character variation, and made much to break the tedious attack-defence-attack-defence rhythm into something less predictable. However, in that system fatigue also served a role similar to Motes in Exalted (i.e. could be used to power superhuman abilities).

Overall, while I see in-combat fatigue-counting as something that can be made good, I too think that it will to some extent feel crowded when standing next to Ticks (2e) or Initiative (3e).
 
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I mean one potential way to do fatigue is simply to lower your initiative gain while your wearing or wielding gear thats above your strength class.
 
I mean one potential way to do fatigue is simply to lower your initiative gain while your wearing or wielding gear thats above your strength class.
So, expanding what is already done with the unattuned artifacts to everything else? There is already a precedent, so it should be relatively easy to modify it.
 
So, expanding what is already done with the unattuned artifacts to everything else? There is already a precedent, so it should be relatively easy to modify it.

Yeah, something simple but easy.

Would likely lead to complaining, especially considering how much it 'hurts' to do 3/4/3, but would make some thinking involved.
 
So I started to write-up an old Dragon King Mentor I had in my longest-running and most fondly-remembered Exalted game, just to take my mind off another project that's been stalling all morning.

That transformed a bit – first I stripped out a bunch of younger-me conceptual nonsense, then I decided to take the opportunity to try and return some of the old mystique of the Dragon Kings from before they became goofy dino-people. Then I moved the character away from Malfeas, where my PC found her in the actual game, to make the Dragon King's presence both more remarkable within the setting (Malfeas is already full of weird shit) and more accessible to non-Infernals. Which necessitated writing up an island, as well. Then I added a Storytelling section of sorts and added slight mechanical touches for Ex3 players because why not.

So at the end of that, here we are – Smaradugro, the Blasphemy in Scales, who rules the Scented Isle.

In the time before history, the Dragon Kings ruled over land and sea. Foremost among the children of Creation, at once ancient and young, immortal and ever-dying, the Dragon Kings devised strange sciences that allowed them to mould life to their liking. In their wisdom they crafted evolving servitors, living tools and symbiotic regalia, and even reshaped their own race to suit the varied climes in which they established their vast cyclopean cities. They paid for their glory with sacrifice and homage to the Old and Young Gods alike, praises written in blood and the high holy speech that deafened the minds of mortals.

Such days are long gone. Ravaged by cosmic war and the wrath of the Primordial Beings, the eternal souls of the Dragon Kings have been scattered to the ether, and their sacred cities are ruins picked over by the very humans they once wove as slaves from ape stock. Those edifices that still exist loom silent and incomprehensible, hidden away in environments too extreme for human habitation, overrun by the rampant offspring of the Dragon Kings' organic technology.

The survivors are few and far between. A gated village carved from the great urban mass of the Heavenly City, where fewer than a hundred reptiles tend to exotic beasts and coax bonsai artwork into shape with hopelessly crude tools. Tombs of hibernating nobility, sealed deep beneath the ice of lands that were once tropical paradises, their alien souls locked into meditation within artificially-stilled hearts. Ancient monsters hidden amongst humanity, working forgotten arts to torture lesser beasts into vessels for the divine souls of their lost kin.

Among these remnants of elder things, Smaradugro is best-regarded as a particular abomination, a Blasphemy in Scales.

Once, Smaradugro was of the Ra-Ptok breed, who wove the bodies that encased their eternal souls to match the principles of Sextes Jylis. Senses were honed to an exquisite edge, claws shaped into delicate hands, limbs sculpted to be lithe and flexible, feathers cultivated for sleek decoration. Perfectly engineered for exploration and indulgence, those Dragon Kings who took a Ra-Ptok body were expected to be diplomats and dilettantes – and debaucherers, always ready to stretch curiosity even beyond the bounds of reptilian taste.

No exception to the rule, Smaradugro became something of a celebrity in the Golden Age of Humanity – an alien who moved among the Exalted was a novelty in an age when most of the elder races had locked themselves away from the world that had dismissed them. Though she favoured a female sex, Smaradugro frittered bodies away with indecent ease, adopting everything from near-human forms to abstracted hybrids of crystal and feathers.

By the time of the Great Uprising, the Dragon King had spent some centuries as a companion of a famed artist. Together they'd delved into ever-more-blasphemous styles and mediums, developing mere artistic statements that would baffle and enrapture the greatest heretic sorcerer of the modern world. Their aesthetic matched and exceeded the dizzying heights of that age's extravagance, and she became ever-more the Solar's devotee, warping her body and even mind to suit their artistic union.

She escaped alone when her master's manor erupted with fire and ice, fleeing to a nameless island retreat they'd once shared in the South-East – and there she remains, to this day.

That is not to say that the Blasphemy in Scales has been entirely idle. Though rooted in ancient knowledge and mysterious practice rather than the casual mastery of the Exalted, her sorcery is sufficient to keep in touch with the world outside. She knows that the Lunars have fled the world, that humans have reverted once more to savages, that a Terrestrial Empire rules from the heart of Meru. There are none in Heaven who remember her, not even among her kin, but the local Storm Mother relies on her for all manner of intoxicants. In exchange, she drives ships away or breaks them on her shores when new materials are required.

More of her time is spent communing with demons – with their help, and the labour of servitor-beasts, she has converted the strange workshops and palette-ponds of her artistic retreat into a temple of flesh to shame even the skin-painters of the North's Ivressi Red. A number of neomah have even made permanent homes along the cliffs of the island, wafting incense from the fires that burn atop their silvery nautilus towers. This has given it its current name, shared by sailors who speak of lurid lights behind a storm – the Scented Isle.

Mara, in particular, has continued the collaboration she began with Smaradugro's partner, passing on shared secrets of sorcery and martial arts and gifting her with the name she now bears. Her true name – a turn of High Holy Speech that translates broadly into Salient Emerald – is kept locked away, the better to recognize her muse when they return from exile.

The Scented Isle is a mad petri dish of animal, vegetable and mineral, its native species long since wiped out by new breeds gone rampant. Smaradugro has allowed it to grow wild, discarding her experiments and artworks into the tangled jungle that writhes outside her walls – whether they flourish with unnatural strength or are swallowed up in moments is not her concern. The living effluence of the Dragon King's studio-temple even flows out beyond her shores, filling the waters near the Scented Isle with reefs of bizarre sealife. Unbeknownst to her, this bounty of exotics has begun to attract the barbarian fishermen of the Fallen Age, who can fetch fine novelty prices for unique breeds like the flacon-fish.

In the absence of the First Age's high science and exotic materials, the bodies of the Blasphemy in Scales have steadily lost their sophistication and purity. The passing of ages has forced her to be creative and brutal in her methods – robbed of the ancient heights available to her artistic glory, she instead prides herself on the innovation and improvisation required to survive. She fosters new forms in the belly-trunks of animal trees, and weaves demon-blood into her bodies for longevity and power, heedless of the contamination to her own spiritual core.

Her most common form is an uncannily slender and tall figure of boneless curves and soft white snake-scales, clothed and moved by the tangle of prehensile black scute-vines that extend from her skull and spine. Such serpent-tails even twitch beneath her skin, reshaping details and peeling away imperfections as necessary. Smaradugro lounges across the root-and-branch furniture that flourishes in her home, wide reptilian eyes gazing into a drug-hazed past as often as the embryonic guts of her latest project. In the interval between dying bodies she inhabits the half-living mass of her studio-temple itself, vines twitching like living cables along its ceiling and corners.

Smaradugro has few visitors, but every so often a sailor will survive the storms and make their way into the island itself. Such souls have no hope of rescue, for Smaradugro values her privacy – but she may entertain herself with them for a time, assessing their response to her island's inspired food chain. Those who please the Blasphemy in Scales may even meet her in a more human guise, permitted to rest and bear witness to her more delicate works, waited on by a staff of grotesque servitors. Once she tires of their primitive awe and terror, they become little more than clay for her sculpture.

As a setting for your adventure, the Scented Isle offers the exploration of an almost alien jungle packed with whatever chimeric, exotic or even Geiger-esque fauna and flora the Storyteller desires. A literally cold-blooded genetic artist waits for any visitors in her laboratory at the island's heart, adding a touch of The Island of Doctor Moreau – and all the works inspired by that novel's story of an isolated mad scientist painting on life's canvas.

Characters may be brought to the island by a chance shipwreck, or seek it out deliberately, chasing rumours of the mysterious Scented Isle. A Solar might seek an exotic familiar worthy of their might, drawn to the reefs surrounding the Scented Isle for their plethora of strange waterbeasts and the promise of the siren lights, while a Dragon-blood could seek to claim the exotic wildlife as trophies to impress his House or trade throughout the Realm.

A Lunar might wish to steal the shapes of such unique creatures for themselves, only to find themselves forced to climb up the food chain to escape the attentions of Smaradugro, who never much appreciated the ability of Luna's Chosen to outmatch her wildest inspirations with a thought. A Sidereal might dig through ancient archived maps in search of an edge, only to discover an abandoned island that's anything but – or else find a terrible surprise waiting at the end of complaints about a particular Storm Mother or local fish-god.

Solars – and their dark cousins – have a particular hook, in the form of Smaradugro's long-lost muse. Should the Dragon King believe they have reincarnated, she will go to great lengths and take terrible risks to renew their twisted partnership. The next incarnation of that Solar might be led to the general area of the Scented Isle by a hazy memory of summers spent composing brilliant new life, or could find themselves all but 'sold' to Smaradugro by a spirit who knows of their connection. Mara, in particular, would find it profitable and amusing to lead a young Solar or Infernal to the Scented Isle.

Smaradugro would make a powerful Mentor to a healer, magician, or scholar of the First Age, provided they can impress her enough to treat them as an actual person. Only the Exalted have a real shot at this, but a mortal caught in her claws might well Exalt at just the right moment, allowing them to escape, slay the monstrous artist, or win her respect. Either way, the island itself is a mouth-watering repository of exotic ingredients for any Exalt versed in Craft or Medicine, and Smaradugro's Manse is an incredible prize – though its rating will steadily drop should she die and be unable to leverage her irreplaceable expertise toward keeping its living parts healthy and in check. An Exalt who slays her might even be able to colonise the island, taming the most useful species and wiping out the rest.

The simplest way to represent the wildlife of the Scented Isle is by taking existing animals and modifying them. The Storyteller might change up their dice pools, and add Merits or special attacks from other animals. Some may bear awakened Latent powers or supernatural skills taken from spirits – it's up to their role in the story.

Smaradugro's manse, the Serpent Studio, is a strange construction. A fusion of cannibalized First Age luxuries with degenerate custom-bred living architecture, the manse has its own senses and reflexes, though it only acts with true intent when Smaradugro is using it as a body. Primarily, it acts as a supernaturally-advanced workshop for the craft of flesh and blood, likely matched in Creation only by the rodent-manned plague-kitchen of Smintheus, Heaven's Prime Minister of Plague. Its potent hearthstone is usually incorporated directly into Smaradugro's latest body as an organ in its own right.

Smaradugro herself is best-represented as something like an Essence 5 Demon of the Second Circle focused on fleshcraft and artistry, though she is constantly materialized and relies on the benefits of her manse-home to match the true depth of power available to such beings. She knows the entirety of Black Claw Style, and practices it mainly in memory of her lost master – though she once mastered the Ra-Ptok art of Shadow Hunter Style, she is long out-of-practice, restricting her to a rusty Terrestrial level. She is a skilled sorcerer of the Emerald Circle, with shaping rituals suited to the ancient practices of Dragon Kings.

Her Intimacies include a Defining Principle of perpetuating the evolution of her artwork, a Major Tie of love toward her lost Solar partner, and a Major Principle that beauty surpasses the suffering of lesser beings. She also has a Minor Tie of nostalgia for lost glories, as well as a Minor Principle toward accepting challenges worthy of her talents.
 
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Here's a question:
How effective are Evocations compared to Solar Combat Charms?

For example, If two Solars pick up a Merit 3 Daiklave, but one takes Beloved Adorei whilst the other goes complete Melee, will full Melee dude be weaker than Beloved Adorei Wielder in the long run?
 
Here's a question:
How effective are Evocations compared to Solar Combat Charms?

For example, If two Solars pick up a Merit 3 Daiklave, but one takes Beloved Adorei whilst the other goes complete Melee, will full Melee dude be weaker than Beloved Adorei Wielder in the long run?
You can pay for Evocations with the non-CharmXP (which is still called SolarXP, sigh) though.
So unless they're taking Evocations at character creation in place of charms*, they can have the exact same amount of melee charms. The full Melee dude can also raise his attributes or abilities or buy some merits or specializations with those non-charmXP, but that likely won't make him better at Melee much. And the evocation user meanwhile gets charm-like powers.


*actually, as GM I just allow a player to "pay off" any Evocations, Martial Arts charms or Spells taken at character creation with non-charmXP gained during play. So if you start out knowing three spells (beyond the one granted by the initiation charm), you can basically convert 24 ncXP into normalXP. This ensures that everyone has the same amount of solar charms, and incentives starting out with cool spells, martial arts or evocations.
 
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So it's designed to encourage you to buy Evocations and Martial Arts? Or Eclipse-Ok charms if you do that? Is there any extra things for Solars who don't want to buy Evocations or MA? One of my players wants to do a barehanded fighter, but he doesn't really like the MA Styles, and wants to go Brawl. He'd buy a Smashfist with Evocations, but none of us trust our Homebrew skills right now, and we'd reskin them, but none of the canon Evocations fit his character.

Also, can you combo Evocations with Solar Charms?
 
So it's designed to encourage you to buy Evocations and Martial Arts? Or Eclipse-Ok charms if you do that? Is there any extra things for Solars who don't want to buy Evocations or MA? One of my players wants to do a barehanded fighter, but he doesn't really like the MA Styles, and wants to go Brawl. He'd buy a Smashfist with Evocations, but none of us trust our Homebrew skills right now, and we'd reskin them, but none of the canon Evocations fit his character.

Also, can you combo Evocations with Solar Charms?
Buying Attribute dots alone isn't as snazzy as Evocations, MA or spells, but it's still a pretty solid investment of Solar xp. Merits and Abilities, too.
 
So it's designed to encourage you to buy Evocations and Martial Arts? Or Eclipse-Ok charms if you do that? Is there any extra things for Solars who don't want to buy Evocations or MA? One of my players wants to do a barehanded fighter, but he doesn't really like the MA Styles, and wants to go Brawl. He'd buy a Smashfist with Evocations, but none of us trust our Homebrew skills right now, and we'd reskin them, but none of the canon Evocations fit his character.

Spells, attributes and abilities, merits. Attributes especially can be very good investments even if they are boring.

Also, can you combo Evocations with Solar Charms?

Yes. Note that the Evocations listed are Solar-specific, so there's no cross-splat combinatorial problem.
 
You can combo Evocations with anything (that uses their weapon/armor), yes.

If you don't have any
Evocations/Martial Arts/SorceryEclipse-charms/Familiars
or anything else like that (though I think I got everything), then you can still buy
Attributes, Abilities, Merits, Specializations and Willpower.
That's still pretty valuable.

If you just want to maximize, say, Brawl - get Strength 5, Dexterity 5, Stamina 5. You won't start out with that at character creation, and that investment will just plain make you better. Want more optimization? Maximize your Join Battle with Wits 5, Awarness 5 and the Fast Reflexes merit. Athletics 5 will make it easier for you to rush, and you can get the Fleet of Foot merit if you want to maximize it. Get the Pain Tolerance Merit to turn -2 wound levels into -1s, and -4s into -3s, it'll make you better in combat. Oh and get Willpower 10 too, of course.

And just the Merits on that one are worth 33 SolarXP, which is about three evocations. Add in Willpower at 8 per dot, and whatever it takes to maximize your abilities and attributes, and you easily have a cost-sink as much as an entire artifact of evocations.
 
So, question that came up while writing Smaradugro - am I missing something, or did Second Circle Demons get much weaker in Third Edition?

I'm looking at the demon section of the Ex3 core and seeing that the sample Second Circle Demons all have dice pools of around 10-14 dice in their area of specialty. Sigereth has 14 in gaming, Mara has 12 in sorcery, Alveua has 12 in crafting hellish wonders, Octavian has 12-14 in toughness and strength, and so on. These seem pretty much like the dice pools I'd have expected from Second Circle Demons in previous editions.

The issue is, those demons had Excellencies, and these don't seem to.

Checking one of the books I actually have on me at the moment, for example, Gebre is a Second Circle Demon who specializes in astrology, and has a total dice pool of 14 for astrology-based actions... but he also has a First Occult Excellency, allowing him to add seven dice to these rolls. He has an effective Astrology Pool of 21. Octavian's War pool is 9 rather than 7 in 2e, but he also has a First War Excellency, bumping him to 18 when he needs it.

Now, I guess this is a clear return to First Edition, where Second Circle Demons didn't have Excellencies. In fact, they were more barebones overall. Back then, Alveua just had a Craft pool of 13, an undetailed magic hammer, and Creation of Perfection - and she was damned grateful even for that!

As I understand it, though, no-one else had Excellencies back then either. Solars had to delve into countless different dice-adders and so on in order to boost their base pools past that of a heroic mortal, which is why 2e standardized it into preset Excellencies. Ex3 has returned the different dice adders (in the form of X-again, re-rolls, lowered target numbers, etc), and kept the Excellencies, but removed them from Second Circle Demons? Is that correct? Are Second Circles just deliberately less powerful in this edition, or am I missing something?

It just seems really odd that Mara, the dark seductress of Hell, has a social influence dice pool of 10, which a dedicated Solar can more than double at chargen. Hell, it can be bettered by the sample Exigent of a City-Father in the core, and she's not even specialized in that direction. Certainly, Mara has special powers to boost the effectiveness of her pool, but so can the other two. I feel like I'm overlooking a sidebar telling me that all spirits have innate dice-adders or something.
 
So, question that came up while writing Smaradugro - am I missing something, or did Second Circle Demons get much weaker in Third Edition?

I'm looking at the demon section of the Ex3 core and seeing that the sample Second Circle Demons all have dice pools of around 10-14 dice in their area of specialty. Sigereth has 14 in gaming, Mara has 12 in sorcery, Alveua has 12 in crafting hellish wonders, Octavian has 12-14 in toughness and strength, and so on. These seem pretty much like the dice pools I'd have expected from Second Circle Demons in previous editions.

The issue is, those demons had Excellencies, and these don't seem to.

Checking one of the books I actually have on me at the moment, for example, Gebre is a Second Circle Demon who specializes in astrology, and has a total dice pool of 14 for astrology-based actions... but he also has a First Occult Excellency, allowing him to add seven dice to these rolls. He has an effective Astrology Pool of 21. Octavian's War pool is 9 rather than 7 in 2e, but he also has a First War Excellency, bumping him to 18 when he needs it.

Now, I guess this is a clear return to First Edition, where Second Circle Demons didn't have Excellencies. In fact, they were more barebones overall. Back then, Alveua just had a Craft pool of 13, an undetailed magic hammer, and Creation of Perfection - and she was damned grateful even for that!

As I understand it, though, no-one else had Excellencies back then either. Solars had to delve into countless different dice-adders and so on in order to boost their base pools past that of a heroic mortal, which is why 2e standardized it into preset Excellencies. Ex3 has returned the different dice adders (in the form of X-again, re-rolls, lowered target numbers, etc), and kept the Excellencies, but removed them from Second Circle Demons? Is that correct? Are Second Circles just deliberately less powerful in this edition, or am I missing something?

It just seems really odd that Mara, the dark seductress of Hell, has a social influence dice pool of 10, which a dedicated Solar can more than double at chargen. Hell, it can be bettered by the sample Exigent of a City-Father in the core, and she's not even specialized in that direction. Certainly, Mara has special powers to boost the effectiveness of her pool, but so can the other two. I feel like I'm overlooking a sidebar telling me that all spirits have innate dice-adders or something.
Spirits don't have standardized Excellencies, but powerful ones still have their own dice-adders. Or, more generally, success-adders. For instance, Mara:
Devil Seraglio Ways (15m, 1wp; Supplemental; Instant; Essence 5): Mara doubles 8s on a persuade roll to seduce a character or any influence roll that exploits a Tie of love or lust towards her, and treats her target as having Resolve 0 for determining how many bonus dice her Appearance adds.

Handmaid of Dark Fates (5m; Supplemental; Instant; Essence 4): Mara may add three bonus successes on a persuade roll to convince one of her lovers to take an action that will bring about death or suffering (whether directly or indirectly). Additionally, each time she has used Soul Feeding to benefit that character in the past imposes a -1 penalty on his Resolve against the roll.
More narrow than a straight Excellency, but still pretty powerful.
 
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