It would make the Immaculate Doctrine largely unworkable
Well, i could blame my headache but i actually forgot about the Immaculate Doctrine.

Even if by a minimum of them i meant more like frequent flashes of half faded memories when doing something that resonated with one own past life, the entirely possible(If not easy) higher levels would probably nearly destroy the Immaculate Doctrine.
 
It would make the Immaculate Doctrine largely unworkable, as people would realize that reincarnation is a fundamentally random process. Given that the Doctrine is predicated upon reincarnation as a reward to motive 'moral' behavior (that is broadly speaking 'behavior benefitial to the Realm and the Sidereals,' although that's simplistic), the consequences on the setting would be broad and far-reaching.

Well, no. It would mean the Dogma would have been designed differently in the first place. Like "good behaviour lets you escape the cycle of reincarnation and become one with the Dragons", or something - which has the advantage of being wonderfully unfalsifiable. If someone's been reborn - well, clearly they must have sinned at some point in their past life. Otherwise they wouldn't have been reborn. If they don't remember doing so... well, clearly those memories must have been lost.
 
The question of the retention of identity between reincarnation is important because it effects the morality of many sorts of things deal with souls and ghosts.

If a reincarnation is the same person, then destroying a soul is way more immoral than killing a person, you are killing them forever. If there is no retention of identity then destroying a soul is just destroying some mainly soul stuff, no worse than killing a person.
 
Warning: Warning
Because I was making a joke, and you being the prick you are, are taking far, far too seriously?

Edit: Actually, you're not just a prick, you are damned fool at that. What kind of idiot thinks that a single line post, comparing a 2000s kid show to the Yozi in any setting was a serious post?

warning Sadly, I'm now going to have to take this far too seriously as well.

I get that arguments can be extremely frustrating. I also get how incredibly annoying it can be when one of our more literal posters responds to a clear joke as if it were serious. I really do. But that doesn't make it okay to use this kind of language in response, you know? It needlessly escalates the situation and has the potential to hurt feelings. Next time someone annoys you, go for a walk or something.

I'm going not going to infract you here, since I think there was some degree of provocation and whilst you did go over the line, you could still see it behind you. But I want you to consider yourself warned. Furthermore, if I ever see you using this kind of language in this thread to another user again, I will infract you and I may take additional steps to ensure it doesn't reoccur. So in short, please don't do this again.

Thank you for your time.
 
... well yeah. Given that you're, you know. Dead. If you meet your reincarnation, something has gone horribly, horribly wrong.
I'm going back to this, because it made me think of something I'm not sure has ever been covered in Canon. Do we know which group of Solaroids the Deathlords' Exaltations went to? Because I think one of them meeting themselves in an Infernal under the control of their Past Life would be quite interesting.
 
It must be awkward to meet your reincarnation if you're a Solar.
This seems like a major theme of the current story I'm in. Specifically, we've already met Liminal!Salina and little-girl!Salina[1]. I'm fully expected Solar-with-Salina's-memories to turn up any time now (assuming they haven't already).

[1] I have no clue what she is, but I do know the following:
  • Came from a (failed?) attempt to resurrect Salina.
  • No elemental associations.
  • Not tightly bound to any specific location.
  • An Anima which is almost certainly hers was described as Yellow with crystals in it.
  • Is burned by hot enough tea.
  • Chooses to sometimes float.
  • Scares local Dragon-blooded [2] enough that most just do what she tells them to.
  • Probably dies if we all attacked her with intent to kill, maybe.
  • Sometimes seems to not realize how much time has past.
  • Opened a competition for rulership to inherit the local domain.
  • Appears to be roughly as good a crafter as our Twilight with craft as their supernal ability.
[2] Worth noting here that the local dragon-blood are descendants of loyalists, and are far enough west they've avoided the immaculate philosophy.

I would love any ideas on what the hell she is. My initial possibility was that she was an animating intelligence of the local manse network [3], but that seems unlikely. @StormofCrows suggested she's a death-lord after we found out she seems to be using solar craft, but the anima doesn't support that.

[3] Worth noting that this is an extremely important network, since it keeps the Wyld out. I wasn't kidding when I said that we're far west.
 
I'm going back to this, because it made me think of something I'm not sure has ever been covered in Canon. Do we know which group of Solaroids the Deathlords' Exaltations went to? Because I think one of them meeting themselves in an Infernal under the control of their Past Life would be quite interesting.
IIRC it is heavily implied that the Silver Prince used to be Desus, and thus his Exaltation went to the iconic Eclipse, Swan. We dont know about any of the others.
 
This seems like a major theme of the current story I'm in. Specifically, we've already met Liminal!Salina and little-girl!Salina[1]. I'm fully expected Solar-with-Salina's-memories to turn up any time now (assuming they haven't already).

[1] I have no clue what she is, but I do know the following:
  • Came from a (failed?) attempt to resurrect Salina.
  • No elemental associations.
  • Not tightly bound to any specific location.
  • An Anima which is almost certainly hers was described as Yellow with crystals in it.
  • Is burned by hot enough tea.
  • Chooses to sometimes float.
  • Scares local Dragon-blooded [2] enough that most just do what she tells them to.
  • Probably dies if we all attacked her with intent to kill, maybe.
  • Sometimes seems to not realize how much time has past.
  • Opened a competition for rulership to inherit the local domain.
  • Appears to be roughly as good a crafter as our Twilight with craft as their supernal ability.
[2] Worth noting here that the local dragon-blood are descendants of loyalists, and are far enough west they've avoided the immaculate philosophy.

I would love any ideas on what the hell she is. My initial possibility was that she was an animating intelligence of the local manse network [3], but that seems unlikely. @StormofCrows suggested she's a death-lord after we found out she seems to be using solar craft, but the anima doesn't support that.

[3] Worth noting that this is an extremely important network, since it keeps the Wyld out. I wasn't kidding when I said that we're far west.
One point of clarification on our mystery little girl.
1. Anima was yellow crystal with green fire
I've also suggested infernal and alchemical.
 
If a reincarnation is the same person, then destroying a soul is way more immoral than killing a person, you are killing them forever.
Well, it depends on what exactly are the mechanics of the whole retaining memories.

If you want for Destroying souls to not be more immoral than killing someone, you can either make so that memories are either stored elsewhere and then randomly linked to another soul, or that the bits of soul that keep memories are far more hardy than the rest of it, thus allowing them to escape complete destruction.(And then go infective/cancerous and infect other souls with mismatched memories. Or become a ghostly abomination in the underworld.)

Or something else entirely. I am not proposing and/or developing an Alternate Universe, i am merely asking questions about the implications of something.
 
If you want for Destroying souls to not be more immoral than killing someone, you can either make so that memories are either stored elsewhere and then randomly linked to another soul, or that the bits of soul that keep memories are far more hardy than the rest of it, thus allowing them to escape complete destruction.
Or you write reincarnation such that the new person isn't the old person, regardless of any memories that may have carried over.

Individuals are a whole lot more than "what they remember."
 
... some sort of artifical spirit?

I mean, the Incarnae were made, after all. And sure, they were made by Primordials... but chibi-Salina isn't Incarnae-tier, either.

So some sort of "artifical god of Being Salina, with Panoply Charms to match"?
 
[1] I have no clue what she is, but I do know the following:
  • Came from a (failed?) attempt to resurrect Salina.
  • No elemental associations.
  • Not tightly bound to any specific location.
  • An Anima which is almost certainly hers was described as Yellow with crystals in it.
  • Is burned by hot enough tea.
  • Chooses to sometimes float.
  • Scares local Dragon-blooded [2] enough that most just do what she tells them to.
  • Probably dies if we all attacked her with intent to kill, maybe.
  • Sometimes seems to not realize how much time has past.
  • Opened a competition for rulership to inherit the local domain.
  • Appears to be roughly as good a crafter as our Twilight with craft as their supernal ability.
Sounds like a doombot. Or an attempt to create an Exaltation. Or both.
 
@Kylar @Shyft @Aleph @EarthScorpion @All

More Alchemical clarifications requested.

1)First, on re-read of what looked like a spectacularly useless charm
TRANS-CHOSEN EMULATOR
Cost: —
Mins: Appearance 2, Essence 3
Type: Permanent
Keywords: Internal, Obvious, Shaping
Duration: Permanent
Prerequisite Charms: Integrated Artifact Transmogrifier

This Charm enhances its prerequisite.

While using the Integrated Artifact Transmogrifier, the Champion can reflexively alter her anima banner to resemble any other specific caste or aspect of Exalt she has personally witnessed and clearly remembers seeing. Even non-Alchemical animas may be copied this way. In effect, the character uses the appropriate anima banner table in lieu of her own, meaning she gains a caste mark and no longer leaks magical materials if disguised as a Celestial and radiates anima flux while copying a Terrestrial, et cetera. Caste- or aspect-specific physical features are also copied, such as Terrestrial aspect markings or the predominant magical material used in the construction of a visibly Alchemical body.

The character's specific iconic anima at the 16-mote level and above remains distinctive to her soul, however, which could spoil the disguise depending on its appropriateness to her feigned anima type. The operation of Charms does not change, so a "Solar" whose body whips out a pneumatic cannon will certainly raise eyebrows from those who know that that is not how Lawgiver magic works.

Use of this Charm changes only anima display, not anima power.

Submodules:
Metatotemic Calibrator (Appearance 3, 2xp): With this submodule, the Exalt may choose how his iconic anima manifests each time it does so, as long as the display is thematically appropriate to the caste his anima is currently emulating. He may even use this power when not disguised in order to personalize the expressions of his own awesome might. This benefit also applies to Solars with Phantom-Conjuring Performance and Essence 4+.
Is this charm basically implying that an Alchemical can flare, say, a Fire Dragonblood's anima flux and burninate his surroundings as an offensive effect?
Because the note about changing anima display but not anima power is a little confusing,


2)Found this online
Ask the authors: Alchemicals - Page 38 - Exalted - White Wolf - White Wolf Publishing
Asmora said:
Trans-Chosen Emulator says that it replaces your anima banner chart with that of the appropriate type of Exalt, which means the Alchemical table's entry that negates disguise doesn't come up. The Solar anima chart negates Stealth charms, but doesn't say anything about Larceny or disguise. Abyssals use the Solar chart. Dragon-bloods' anima flux doesn't say anything about stealth or disguise. Infernals negate stealth, but not disguise. Lunars reveal their Tell and have to shift into true forms, but stealth is negated, not disguise. I'd look up Sidereals, too, but Adobe is updating. So... there's your answer.
MorsRattus said:
So if I'm an Adamant pretending to be another Alchemical caste via Trans-Chosen emulator - and until the Seal is opened, pretending to be other Alchemicals is the only way to use it - then...I have a completely useless Charm?
Zelbinnean said:
How so? Onlookers may forget the details, but if your anima looks, in effect, like an Orichalcum's instead of an Adamant's, then onlookers might relate the overall results to an Orichalcum and PTSD for not remember the details.
Mors Rattus said:
Because the Trans-Chosen Emulator Charm shuts down when I hit the 4m anima banner range. Far before my power kicks in. Also if I'm not an Adamant, I don't have that power, which means that I, a Starmetal, cannot infiltrate another nation via clever use of Trans-Chosen Emulator and Husk-Sculpting Apparatus, because I can't spend motes beyond 3m peripheral.
Holden said:
Trans-Chosen Emulator was written waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay after the anima banner chart and I forgot to ever go back and adjust the chart accordingly. They're not intended to interfere with one another.
This seems to be saying that if you're using Trans-Chosen Emulator + Integrated Artifact Transmogrifier to look, say, like a Dragonblood or a Solar, that going totemic anima doesn't drop your disguise.
Am I reading that right?
 
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Exigent Exalt, IMO,since you seem to be playing 3E.
High level too, to match a Supernal Twilight.
While not impossible, this is extremely unlikely given the way Exigents work. You aren't going to get something even vaguely Solarish. All beings have an anima, it's just a matter of exciting it with essence. Normally pointless, unless you are trying to make a sorcerous creation that looks like an Exalt.

I would love any ideas on what the hell she is. My initial possibility was that she was an animating intelligence of the local manse network [3], but that seems unlikely. @StormofCrows suggested she's a death-lord after we found out she seems to be using solar craft, but the anima doesn't support that.
That's easy: she is "a supernatural being of a singular nature and considerable power." :V
 
All beings have an anima, it's just a matter of exciting it with essence. Normally pointless, unless you are trying to make a sorcerous creation that looks like an Exalt.
Could just be a side effect, too; the anima is just the result of incomplete control over your Essence, rather than something unique to Exalts. Any "flawed" creature could have one and I wouldn't bat an eye.

Hell, didn't Mother Bog of all things have one?
 
While not impossible, this is extremely unlikely given the way Exigents work. You aren't going to get something even vaguely Solarish. All beings have an anima, it's just a matter of exciting it with essence. Normally pointless, unless you are trying to make a sorcerous creation that looks like an Exalt.
Is this some new thing with 3E?
Because last I remember, in 2E only Exalts had anima banners; gods didn't, nor did half-castes, demons or raksha.
And the explanation I remember about Exigents is that they can follow any thematics, depending on the god/goddess responsible for making them.

I was betting on a black market exaltation myself, gone badly wrong.
 
Is this some new thing with 3E?
Because last I remember, in 2E only Exalts had anima banners; gods didn't, nor did half-castes, demons or raksha.
No, though I should have been more clear. All living things have an invisible anima. It's just that in Exalts using essence can sometimes make it visible.

And the explanation I remember about Exigents is that they can follow any thematics, depending on the god/goddess responsible for making them.
They're variable, but you don't get to choose the result, so it's unlikely she'd have such eerie similarities.

I was betting on a black market exaltation myself, gone badly wrong.
If she's gone years, let alone decades, without making a mess large enough that Sidreals had to clean up the smoking crater then things didn't really go all that badly.
 
More Alchemical clarifications requested.

Okay! So basically what this is all saying, is that you use the 'table' to determine what level your anima ticks up at. (And no anima ticks up at a different rate in 2e before other effects). Then, your passive anima effect changes. This only matters for DBs, because DBs have a passive effect with mechanical consequence- anima flux.

What it's basically saying, is that Yes, you can get Anima Flux,but No, you cannot get Dawn's RUN COWARD or Zeniths Anti-CoD effect. If you can pay 5-10m to invoke a specific anima power, you can't get it via Trans-Chosen Emulator. DBs have their own- like wood aspect poisons or water aspects being able to run on water.
 
Because last I remember, in 2E only Exalts had anima banners; gods didn't, nor did half-castes, demons or raksha.
I am pretty sure there was an Anima banner mutation/merit/flaw(Cannot really remember which, and i cannot currently check), but i am almost sure it was in Scroll of Heores.

So take it with a whole truck of salt.
 
What nonlethal incapacitating poisons are there in the setting? We're on a stealthy mission, and are inclined towards doing it with a zero body count. There's the option of using blood chokes (Bashing damage) for that, but in case that's not fast/reliable/convenient enough (and because the teammate is an archer), we'd like to have another card up our sleeve.
Arrow Frog and Coral Snake* Venom do 6-8L damage, which seems prone to outright killing mooks. It doesn't seem like a good paralytic either (at least rules-wise; I know AFV should work as a paralytic), so probably won't prevent screams of alert. So, in world full of wonders, what would be a suitable nonlethal incapacitation poison?

* == My character's combat choice.
 
Is this some new thing with 3E?
Because last I remember, in 2E only Exalts had anima banners; gods didn't, nor did half-castes, demons or raksha.
And the explanation I remember about Exigents is that they can follow any thematics, depending on the god/goddess responsible for making them.

I was betting on a black market exaltation myself, gone badly wrong.
To clarify from Anasurimbor (which, tbh, I'm not sure is canon, but definitely makes metaphysical sense and I'd be somewhat surprised if it wasn't true): the anima banner is described in core as waste energy - it's what happens when the Exaltation's imperfect control of the peripheral pool leaks into the environment. It's attached to the Exaltation and also you, which is why it's so personalized (and also why I think Sidereals should totally have totemic anima, "stars are too distant to make out details" thematics or no).

Anyway, so in theory everyone will have "a shape that their own Essence will naturally take in large enough quantities," which is all the anima banner is, but... why would you ever want to intentionally slip your control on your Essence like that, you're probably wasting one mote out of every twenty or so. Well, that theory doesn't quite explain active anima powers, tbf...
 
There's the option of using blood chokes (Bashing damage) for that, but in case that's not fast/reliable/convenient enough (and because the teammate is an archer), we'd like to have another card up our sleeve.
Remember that poisons only do 1 damage die per interval, which is rarely as short as a tick - action or hour are more common. That means that even with a non-lethal drug, they're going to be walking around, conscious and capable of screaming and yelling for some time after you dose them. If you're going for stealth with drugs, I'd recommend dosing them surreptitiously in a way they won't notice instead of relying on knocking them out in combat time or by laced weapons - spiking the water supply would probably be better than trying to drug the various guards.

I don't think there are any non-lethal poisons written up, but you could probably stat up something equivalent to chloroform that does bashing damage by looking at the actual traits and dosage of real-life chloroform.
 
I don't think there are any non-lethal poisons written up, but you could probably stat up something equivalent to chloroform that does bashing damage by looking at the actual traits and dosage of real-life chloroform.

Even then, doesn't chloroform have to be inhaled? It seems to me like more of a kidnap tool than a 'knock out guards' tool.
 
Remember that poisons only do 1 damage die per interval, which is rarely as short as a tick - action or hour are more common. That means that even with a non-lethal drug, they're going to be walking around, conscious and capable of screaming and yelling for some time after you dose them. If you're going for stealth with drugs, I'd recommend dosing them surreptitiously in a way they won't notice instead of relying on knocking them out in combat time or by laced weapons - spiking the water supply would probably be better than trying to drug the various guards.

And with a well-chosen sedative, they'll be taking penalties for as long as they've got a dose in them. Which means even if they're up and conscious, they're taking dice penalties to all their sensory rolls.

(Honestly, though, I'd suggest you just get them drunk. Get one party member to go to the bar where all the guards go, and coax them into drinking to excess. The most effective drug is one they willingly take.

... that, or Kimbery's poisons, of course)
 
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