No, you don't get something that you get to use to reliably and silently take someone out with just a single blowdart, just from thaumaturgy.

Sure you do.

Costs probably start at Resources 3 for a single dose. Which means that it's basically oh gods why expensive and hard to get already. It's something you use when you need to get your hands on a Guild factor or local ruler or otherwise make a point to such powerful people, but otherwise? Too expensive to be useful.
 
No, see, this is where I disagree.

Thaumaturgy is what lets Creation have access to anaesthetics which work more like modern ones - which is to say, a trained herbologist can brew up something that, when measured precisely to their body mass and administered with great care, allows them to knock someone out while they reset a broken bone. It's a great step up from real life, where the equivalent was basically "get them roaring drunk before you smash their arm and reset it". That is the magic of thaumaturges.
Well, I guess that's an acceptable way to see it. Though I find that statements like this one rob Great Forks of its awesomeness. (GF Watercrafters canonically can produce potions that would just heal the lost hitboxes outright . . . but that's one thing that our GM houseruled away.)

But safe, reliable, near-instant knock-out chemicals are a big change to a setting with a large knock on effect that you're not considering. And then there's the metagame implications. To be blunt, Poison and unexpected attacks are powerful enough already. No, you don't get something that you get to use to reliably and silently take someone out with just a single blowdart, just from thaumaturgy.
Oh, indeed on both accounts:
Lack or availability of fully-nonlethal KO weapons does change some aspects of the setting. I remember one GM who deliberately played up the risks and downplayed the effectiveness of electrical less-lethal incapacitation weaponry (TASERs and future replacements thereof) because he wanted a setting where as soon as the cops end talking, they start either killing, or going into close combat, with little space for other options. If someone wants to emphasise the grimness of a campaign, they might want that. OTOH, lack of reliable nonlethal KO methods means that each time the GM wants to, say, have a Cecelynean Infernal villain try to capture the heroes and put them into a deathtrap (enabling an awesome escape plot in the campaign) or a gladiator pit (the original scenario in which the Compassion Flaw of Invulnerability can become important even for those who have an Intimacy to their weapons), said GM actually runs the risk of unintentionally eliminating one of the PCs from the party. So it's a matter of choice, and I'm expecting the GM to make a final ruling (the fact that 2e/2½e lacks a canonical powerful Bashing poison, unlike 1e, makes the odds of such a poison allowed in the campaign much lower).

As for poisons being already scary: agreed too! They're so scary that I'm planning to eventually learn Immunity to Everything.

Finally, another consideration: there probably should be a difference in the ease of nonlethally and silently KO'ing Extras and Heroic Mortals; this is already somewhat accounted for with fewer hitboxes and usually lower dicepools.
 
So here's the question. Why can't you just ghost it? Most of the time, if someone finds a guy passed out inexplicably with a dart near them, they're not going to shrug it off and go "That wacky Bob." They're going to go "Someone has infiltrated us." The moment you're making attacks your cover is either blown or about to be blown if there's competent security.
 
So here's the question. Why can't you just ghost it? Most of the time, if someone finds a guy passed out inexplicably with a dart near them, they're not going to shrug it off and go "That wacky Bob." They're going to go "Someone has infiltrated us." The moment you're making attacks your cover is either blown or about to be blown if there's competent security.
Oh, ideally we want to. We're just trying to cover all the bases, contingencies and failure-mitigation plans. If all goes well, we won't need most/any of it.
 
What it's basically saying, is that Yes, you can get Anima Flux,but No, you cannot get Dawn's RUN COWARD or Zeniths Anti-CoD effect. If you can pay 5-10m to invoke a specific anima power, you can't get it via Trans-Chosen Emulator. DBs have their own- like wood aspect poisons or water aspects being able to run on water.
Ah. That goes with my own interpretation as well.
Makes it that much more useful even without a homebrew submod.
Thanks.

What nonlethal incapacitating poisons are there in the setting? We're on a stealthy mission, and are inclined towards doing it with a zero body count. There's the option of using blood chokes (Bashing damage) for that, but in case that's not fast/reliable/convenient enough (and because the teammate is an archer), we'd like to have another card up our sleeve.
As has been mentioned here?
Infiltrate their camp and poison their food/water beforehand.
If everyone has the runs, their security will be spread thin and you are more likely to ghost through or achieve local superiority of force so you can afford non-lethal options.

As a reminder, I will point you at the 1995 Rugby World Cup finals, where food poisoning at one meal is alleged to have played a significant part in the victory of the SA Springboks over the NZ All Blacks.
 
Oh, ideally we want to. We're just trying to cover all the bases, contingencies and failure-mitigation plans. If all goes well, we won't need most/any of it.

Failure mitigation-if you're detected, go fast and lethal. Don't fuck around with nonlethal weapons and unreliable tools. The fundamental state of soldiers is unready for combat. By fucking around with slow tools that don't kill people, you give them a chance to get ready for combat, or figure out what you actually want and light it on fire.
 
Violence is always an option, and its a pretty good one to; have your fight-y Circle member start shit on the opposite side of your objective, probably by going full war-god on their asses while your sneaky-sneak kills, steals or plants whatever.

There is literally nothing more distracting than a Dawn caste glowing gold, a Slayer using Devil-Tyrant Shintai. Use these facts to your advantage.
 
There is literally nothing more distracting than a Dawn caste glowing gold, a Slayer using Devil-Tyrant Shintai. Use these facts to your advantage.
"Cosplay of All Torments" Shintai-chan [1], "Walking Ark of the Covenant" Shintai-kun and "giant warstrider"-senpai would all like to say hi and ask why you're ignoring them.

[1] A hilarious legal-by-canon murder-combo courtesy of - who else - @Jon Chung. Go on. Ask. You know you want to~
 
And Cosplay of All Torments Shintai is a Chungese special. It runs thusly:
  1. Assume Greater Shintai of the Endless Desert (Broken Winged Crane, pg 18). Other landscape-scale Shintai also work, but Jon likes Cecelyne/Adorjan, so he uses this one. This turns you into a living patch of desert about a mile across.
  2. Activate Pellagrina's Fury (MoEP Infernals, pg 142). This boosts your anima banner to maximum and erodes any stone within (Essence) yards of you. Which includes the mile-wide patch of desert you now occupy.
  3. Purchase all three versions of Wind Daughter's Wrath (Ink Monkeys, pg 65). This expands Pellagrina's Fury to damage first all non-magical inanimate objects in range, and then with a repurchase, all animate beings with an Essence rating lower than yours, then all beings with Essence equal to yours as well.
  4. You are now a mile-wide dematerialised presence that inflicts 1lhl/tick on everything within your desert-body, plus everything five yards outside it, while your anima flares totemic. Optionally, also purchase Spiteful Sea Tincture twice and paint yourself with lethal Kimbery venoms that discharge on contact.
  5. Enjoy.
Jon refers to this as the Cosplay of All Torments because a) you are basically cosplaying as Adrián and b) he is a terrible person.
 
And Cosplay of All Torments Shintai is a Chungese special. It runs thusly:
  1. Assume Greater Shintai of the Endless Desert (Broken Winged Crane, pg 18). Other landscape-scale Shintai also work, but Jon likes Cecelyne/Adorjan, so he uses this one. This turns you into a living patch of desert about a mile across.
  2. Activate Pellagrina's Fury (MoEP Infernals, pg 142). This boosts your anima banner to maximum and erodes any stone within (Essence) yards of you. Which includes the mile-wide patch of desert you now occupy.
  3. Purchase all three versions of Wind Daughter's Wrath (Ink Monkeys, pg 65). This expands Pellagrina's Fury to damage first all non-magical inanimate objects in range, and then with a repurchase, all animate beings with an Essence rating lower than yours, then all beings with Essence equal to yours as well.
  4. You are now a mile-wide dematerialised presence that inflicts 1lhl/tick on everything within your desert-body, plus everything five yards outside it, while your anima flares totemic. Optionally, also purchase Spiteful Sea Tincture twice and paint yourself with lethal Kimbery venoms that discharge on contact.
  5. Enjoy.
Jon refers to this as the Cosplay of All Torments because a) you are basically cosplaying as Adrián and b) he is a terrible person.
I feel this is a very complicated way to emulate what sounds like an adorjan shintai.
 
I feel this is a very complicated way to emulate what sounds like an adorjan shintai.
It has other benefits. But yes, there's probably design space for a Charm behind, hmm, Scarlet Rapture Shintai that allows you to expand it to a landscape-scale murderwind. This one, though, has the benefit of using 100% legal-by-RAW canon Charms, so even the most anal of STs has to allow it.
 
Well, it depends on what exactly are the mechanics of the whole retaining memories.

If you want for Destroying souls to not be more immoral than killing someone, you can either make so that memories are either stored elsewhere and then randomly linked to another soul, or that the bits of soul that keep memories are far more hardy than the rest of it, thus allowing them to escape complete destruction.(And then go infective/cancerous and infect other souls with mismatched memories. Or become a ghostly abomination in the underworld.)

Or something else entirely. I am not proposing and/or developing an Alternate Universe, i am merely asking questions about the implications of something.
Oh, no. I'm just speculating trying to spark discussion as well. It's interesting to me cause it actually came up in a game I'm in recently.

My character is planning to learn Necromany soon and in the rewrite of Sorcery we are using, 'Unconquerable Self' is part of the basic Sorcerer package. Unconquerable Self instantly sends you soul dirrectly to Lethe/scrubs all your memories from your Exaltation(and a few other things). The Necromancy version is almost identical except it send your soul directly to Oblivion.

I commented my character, if she knew she was going to die, would likely use it because while she doesn't believe in 'reincarnation' (Which is to say, to her, saying 'the hun after passing through lethe moves on to be inside someone else' is equivalent to saying "Atoms that were inside stars/Hitler/Albert Einstein are inside you", a true fact but meaningless to her) the thought of her soul being inside someone else is a little weird to her and presented with the option for that not to be so, she'd take it.

Now other characters actually do believe in the continuity of identity between reincarnation, and one of the other character's player commented if his character ever heard that, the character would very likely consider killing my character before they could so as to 'save' all future incarnation of her. ((Note: He also stated his character would never ACTUALLY do that for the sake of the game. ))

And I think that's a real interesting dichotomy. We have setting that's very clear reincarnation is real, but it's left super vague to what extent there is some, if any continuity of identity. Even if you make it so there is some level of memory retention between all reincarnation, there still is the question to what extent does that mean someone is 'like' someone else. To what extent will they share predispositions and personality traits, does it vary, is it completely random? Especially in a situation where access is, while innate, still a consciously activated skill... It's certainly interesting. In that case it's objective that if you destroy your soul you're depriving the world the benefit to the access to your life expereinces, making the destruction of a soul certainly 'selfish' to 'dickish' even on the best end.
 
It has other benefits. But yes, there's probably design space for a Charm behind, hmm, Scarlet Rapture Shintai that allows you to expand it to a landscape-scale murderwind. This one, though, has the benefit of using 100% legal-by-RAW canon Charms, so even the most anal of STs has to allow it.
I mean, no, it's just not something they can prevent with rules citations. Limiting available source material to remove either Ink Monkeys or Broken-Winged Crane would stop it.
 
Today my players killed my carefully-designed boss monster in a single decisive attack ;_;
I haven't actually designed an enemy by stats in a long time. Sometimes I'll pull a monster or two out of the equivalent of the monster manual to get a game running but I've always felt that if the GM is rolling dice outside of trying to make up his mind he's doing it wrong. Don't tell my players though, although our proclivity towards narrative games (Spirit of the Century is my waifu, although I'm finding Time Wizards to be a great break session game) and heavy roleplay means it doesn't really matter. Hence why I don't really comment on system issues outside of thematic or narrative problems.
 
The action economy is merciless.

The Silence She Speaks was one third Terrestrial Sorcery, one third White Reaper Charms, one third homebrew mechanics. Among other things, she had two Initiative tracks and acted twice per turn - once a normal turn and once a shaping/casting sorcery action. She won Join Battle, but her first attacks were parried, and the players' relentless onslaughts crashed her on the first turn. By the time she (barely) got out of crash, the resident Dawn Heaven-Thunder Hammer'd her for over 16 lethal damage once all was said done. She died.

My main mistake was not attacking the Dawn. I wanted to crash the Night so he couldn't pull off his ridiculous decisive stealth attacks, then the Twilight started distorting her combat buff and was an alltogether weaker target so I figured I could kneecap her, and by the time I could have turned my attention to the Dawn she was sitting on top of 27 Initiative and acting first. Nothing to be done.
 
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