Dodge and Parry DV are not difficulties. They cannot be difficulties, or shit breaks. By RAW, attack rolls are Difficulty 1 to define 'can I hit my target before accounting for dodge/parry'. This is why DV is not applied as a penalty to an attack roll as well.

If what you describe is enforced, anything that is a Difficulty Reducer suddenly works on DVs and that is Ba-Roh-Ken. Not to say that DV reducers shouldn't exist, but that KIND should be carefully regulated.
I must admit that I'm not seeing the problems that arise if DV is the difficulty instead of being a weird special case "not a penalty" penalty. What charms exist that break things?

Or is this largely an artifact from how defenses were converted from rolled in 1e to unrolled in 2e?
 
I must admit that I'm not seeing the problems that arise if DV is the difficulty instead of being a weird special case "not a penalty" penalty. What charms exist that break things?

Or is this largely an artifact from how defenses were converted from rolled in 1e to unrolled in 2e?

Generally it's all about best practice in design; Exalted is a keyword/exception system (a lot of games are in fact), and generally, it's best to have firm vision in mind when you define mechanics.

A good example in the 2e corebook is Salty Dog Method, before errata (correctly) fixed the charm; it specifically says it reduces enemy DVs as if it were a difficulty, as long as you're on a boat. The actual amount of reduction is negligible in the long run, but overall it's better to have good practices in place.

Like- I've gone on and on about how Solars are shown to be powerful by how they selectively engage with the keyword system (or even parts of the system entirely). The same applies conversely. If you say DV is anything other than DV, it suddenly means more things can affect DV. More things that you might not have as tight a control on balance wise.
 
Point of curiosity, where's this come from? Didn't see it in Resistance Charms, and I don't know where else to look.
They're actually Integrity charms(Mind-Cleansing Prana + Energy Restoration Prana + Clear Mind Discipline). A Solar can clear her mind through an hour of disciplined meditation. With training, she can also refresh her body and spirit. For most purposes, needing only an hour of "sleep" is nearly as good as needing none.

Except she doesn't have that hour, because she was already booked solid before a cruel band of omnipotents decided that twenty-four hours was more than enough time in a day and twenty-five hour days were just pointlessly confusing, so she's just going to do it while running out the door gulping down her coffee. Somehow, this actually works.
 
Last edited:
While 3e removed this ability, in 2e you can use an Excellency to boost any unrolled use of (Ability). DV is just a special case of this.

Then again, this isn't exactly a very trustworthy source, seeing as how it repeatedly claims that the first excellency is more efficient than the second...
I covered what that bit of rules means when I mentioned Feats of Strength. That's an unrolled use of your Strength + Athletics pool.
Referencing the value of an Ability for a bonus is not what that rule means.
 
Unrelated to current topics, I was mulling over ST theory and philosophy and came up with this little gem:

Let's say an ST decides he wants to introduce a new NPC that will ally with the PCs, so he has him steal their stuff and lead him on a merry chase. The intent is to use this event to introduce the actual Plot/Threat/Whatever. The PCs will get their stuff back, and they'll have a memorable scene to look back on.

Unfortunately The ST has now now - to the players- wasted their time. There is a reason why most people hate Yuffie.

So- what I think a better angle to approach is, is cut out the NPC and use the planned big bad/enemy faction instead; Have the intended threat-antagonist steal their stuff and then put them in a position to Get Even/Solve the Problem presented by the antagonist.
 
So- what I think a better angle to approach is, is cut out the NPC and use the planned big bad/enemy faction instead; Have the intended threat-antagonist steal their stuff and then put them in a position to Get Even/Solve the Problem presented by the antagonist.

And if you still want to introduce that NPC arrange matters so that they'll want to look for an acquisition specialist.
 
And if you still want to introduce that NPC arrange matters so that they'll want to look for an acquisition specialist.

Debatable- in Exalted, it's usually VERY frustrating to tell a player No You Can't Do this, Get Help. This is due to the psychology of the player base though- it's difficult to communicate that asking for help is viable and fun. It's the same reason why nobody runs in Exalted- there's rarely a way to communicate 'this isn't a fight you can win'. Nor is there an easy way to present a scene that doesn't end in "Killing him now is safer."

Unrelated-

Bottomless Bowl
Artifact 1
Attune: none

This black jade bowl is about a foot wide and five inches deep with a round bottom that stands level on its own. The dish is suitable for most kinds of meals or potables. When food or drink is placed in the bowl, it becomes a seemingly endless feast. So long as crumbs remain in the dish, one merely need tilt the bowl and it will instantly replenish itself with a new serving of whatever it had last held.

Bottomless Bowls do not ever run out of food, but they do not provide meals without end either. Like balancing a diet, the bowls shy away from gluttony. If a user reaches for more food than they need (the bowl can tell), it will tilt away towards someone who is hungrier and more deserving. Eventually, these rocks and tilts will cause the bowl to spill, upending itself and making quite a mess. Once the food has spilled, the enchantment ends until the next meal.

After every meal, the bowl must be washed, and a prayer with a Resources 3 offering must be made to the hunger gods, as thanks for their allowances.

Artifact 3 versions of these bowls perfectly remove all mundane poisons and sources of disease from food, save for Yozi Venom or magical sicknesses.
 
Unrelated to current topics, I was mulling over ST theory and philosophy and came up with this little gem:

Let's say an ST decides he wants to introduce a new NPC that will ally with the PCs, so he has him steal their stuff and lead him on a merry chase. The intent is to use this event to introduce the actual Plot/Threat/Whatever. The PCs will get their stuff back, and they'll have a memorable scene to look back on.

Unfortunately The ST has now now - to the players- wasted their time. There is a reason why most people hate Yuffie.

So- what I think a better angle to approach is, is cut out the NPC and use the planned big bad/enemy faction instead; Have the intended threat-antagonist steal their stuff and then put them in a position to Get Even/Solve the Problem presented by the antagonist.
I had to look up who Yuffie is, and in the process found that it's not that 'most' people hate Yuffie, but that Yuffie is causing polarized reactions: getting into various top-50s of characters, but also catching flak. And I think that should be insightful into any sort of campaign preparation: people can have different tastes, including in NPCs.

In a recent discussion of what makes NPCs likeable elsewhere, one of the things people mentioned disliking is the fact that an NPC is designed with a plot hook in mind. I.e. people disliking not necessarily the NPC concept, but rather that said concept is presented with a story in mind, as opposed to as a person in her own right. But, as I said, that's just one way of looking at it; different crayons have different tastes and all that.

Also, as a personal opinion, the 'wasted their time' is not necessarily a big factor all by itself. Instead, there are some questions on matters of security and paranoia that get raised.
Basically, if a GM wants a Plot-Inducing Thief, that means that the GM is dead-set on making the thief very effective, perhaps even successful by fiat. The latter involves, at a minnimum, getting past Excellency-boosted Awareness when pickpocketing, or Excellency-boosted Home Security Configuration in case of burglary. At this point, a GM runs the risk of getting one or both of the following reactions:
  • The players think that the paranoia level they have set for their characters so far was insufficient (particularly if the feat was achieved by a mortal theif).
  • The players think that the thief is some sort of übergodblood or Exalt. If it turns out the theif was a mere mortal, players may call out the GM for a very un-nice form of fudging. Perhaps words like 'godmoding' and 'mary-sue' will be flung, whether deserved or not quite.

Liking the NPC after either one of those two will be harder for players and their PCs. It becomes easier to produce a 'I love to hate this antagonist' reaction by stealing stuff. So yeah, that seems close to your final paragraph on using an enemy faction (and thus implicitly its members). But I think that has nothing to do with disliking an NPC for wasted time. IMHO.
 
Debatable- in Exalted, it's usually VERY frustrating to tell a player No You Can't Do this, Get Help. This is due to the psychology of the player base though- it's difficult to communicate that asking for help is viable and fun. It's the same reason why nobody runs in Exalted- there's rarely a way to communicate 'this isn't a fight you can win'. Nor is there an easy way to present a scene that doesn't end in "Killing him now is safer."

Part of the reason nobody retreats in Exalted is because of the rocket tag nature of combat. The margin between 'alright' and 'dead' is so slim that you either get yourself stuck in or don't engage in the first place.

And no, I didn't mean to say 'you can't do this, get help.' I meant 'your investigations pointed you towards a guy that's as fond of the antagonist as you, maybe he has more info?'
 
No, they're DV's. They're not difficulties or external penalties, they're a thing of their own, chiefly so they can't be negated by charmtech that mitigates either of those things.
Which seems to be largely a result of Rule Zeroing, not RAW definition but eh, I agree that the prospect of some blanket negator of either negating DV is potentially scary, so I can sort of agree with this for actual play.
 
No, they're DV's. They're not difficulties or external penalties, they're a thing of their own, chiefly so they can't be negated by charmtech that mitigates either of those things.
For one, you can apply an external penalty to a DV, which under that reading would mean you could apply an external penalty to an external penalty, which would be baffling. Can difficult terrain be blinded?
 
Part of the reason nobody retreats in Exalted is because of the rocket tag nature of combat. The margin between 'alright' and 'dead' is so slim that you either get yourself stuck in or don't engage in the first place.

And no, I didn't mean to say 'you can't do this, get help.' I meant 'your investigations pointed you towards a guy that's as fond of the antagonist as you, maybe he has more info?'

I think you should know by now that I'm just as well versed in paranoia combat and the death spiral as the other system veterans here. Telling me that reason isn't necessary.

To elaborate, what I mean is that players are usually concerned with utilitarian goals like preventing recurring antagonists. "Killing him now means we won't have to fight him again later."
 
To elaborate, what I mean is that players are usually concerned with utilitarian goals like preventing recurring antagonists. "Killing him now means we won't have to fight him again later."
I'll never really understand that. I mean, I know I've done it myself - in the heat of the moment I took reckless actions to make sure an opponent wouldn't come back - and looking back I wonder why. Games were I allowed antagonists to build up their heat and come back were usually more fun.
 
I'll never really understand that. I mean, I know I've done it myself - in the heat of the moment I took reckless actions to make sure an opponent wouldn't come back - and looking back I wonder why. Games were I allowed antagonists to build up their heat and come back were usually more fun.

The psychology is pretty simple: "This antagonist is preventing me from doing what I want. He is reducing the time I have available to do this thing I want. He is a TAX on my game time."

This comes up a lot more often in games where players have personally determined objectives and projects, and are expected to enact a degree of time and action management. So a lot of games turn out to be "Okay, a problem has come up, how do I solve this problem quickly so I can get back to what I was doing?"

Like, compare a more 'on rails' game. One where everyone agrees to follow the ST implicitly or explicitly.

Let's call out @Aleph here and her thesis of Problem Calculus. That's a great idea, but it's extremely difficult to put into practice. Exalted wanted to enable that very easily with the amount of power it gives the players, but it's also exceptionally hard for Storytellers to grok.
 
The psychology is pretty simple: "This antagonist is preventing me from doing what I want. He is reducing the time I have available to do this thing I want. He is a TAX on my game time."

This comes up a lot more often in games where players have personally determined objectives and projects, and are expected to enact a degree of time and action management. So a lot of games turn out to be "Okay, a problem has come up, how do I solve this problem quickly so I can get back to what I was doing?"

Like, compare a more 'on rails' game. One where everyone agrees to follow the ST implicitly or explicitly.

Let's call out @Aleph here and her thesis of Problem Calculus. That's a great idea, but it's extremely difficult to put into practice. Exalted wanted to enable that very easily with the amount of power it gives the players, but it's also exceptionally hard for Storytellers to grok.
To be honest, that sounds utterly ridiculous. "Tax on my game time"? The antagonist is the game time. If fighting them isn't fun for you, why do they exist? Why would you deliberately design the game so as to create frustration and drive players to deliberately avoid engaging with itself?
 
Let's call out @Aleph here and her thesis of Problem Calculus. That's a great idea, but it's extremely difficult to put into practice. Exalted wanted to enable that very easily with the amount of power it gives the players, but it's also exceptionally hard for Storytellers to grok.

Do you mean Problem Alchemy? Because that's rather different from Problem Calculus. Problem Calculus is solving problems for multiple variables. Problem Alchemy is turning your problems into new kinds of problems, which are hopefully easier for you to fix.
 
Do you mean Problem Alchemy? Because that's rather different from Problem Calculus. Problem Calculus is solving problems for multiple variables. Problem Alchemy is turning your problems into new kinds of problems, which are hopefully easier for you to fix.

And like any form of alchemy, occasionally things blow up in your face and/or you get heavy metal poisoning.
 
Do you mean Problem Alchemy? Because that's rather different from Problem Calculus. Problem Calculus is solving problems for multiple variables. Problem Alchemy is turning your problems into new kinds of problems, which are hopefully easier for you to fix.

I did mean Problem Alchemy, yes

To be honest, that sounds utterly ridiculous. "Tax on my game time"? The antagonist is the game time. If fighting them isn't fun for you, why do they exist? Why would you deliberately design the game so as to create frustration and drive players to deliberately avoid engaging with itself?

Again this comes back to a lot of psychology stuff I really can't get into right now (and am honestly no great authority on anyway).

Basically, look at it this way: If you are trying to Take Over the Realm, and then suddenly an Abyssal attacks your army that you spent real-life five sessions building, you're going to be frustrated because you aren't getting to use your hard-earned army to fight the Realm like you wanted. That's not always true, but it DOES happen.
 
Actually, Problem Calculus is a good name for a different-but-still-relevant thing, which is the way that Exalted is so much more proactive than reactive; at least in theory. It's really, really cool that it expects you to be more than a murderhobo, but it leads to interference and higher load on both sides, because the player is having to balance various different problems - the goals that they want to achieve by leading the plot instead of following it against the antagonistic plot elements the ST is putting in for them. Meanwhile, the ST has more work because instead of the players reacting to stuff the ST is throwing at them - first order planning - they're having to work out and propagate the ramifications of the player's plans, decide what obstacles are in their way and consider possible routes they might go down and flesh them out appropriately - second order planning, if not third.
 
Back
Top